Wright writes.....

[Flyingscotsmanfan]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Some more, because I don't know how many images can be placed into one post................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is one thing in common that all coach pictures posted by Tony show, we have truly never been better off for RTR coach offerings. The only wish I would have is that they expand each range beyond the first/third/brake rut that the mainstream manufacturers seem to be stuck in. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Flyingscotsmanfan

[grahame]

5 minutes ago, Flyingscotsmanfan said:

 The only wish I would have is that they expand each range beyond the first/third/brake rut that the mainstream manufacturers seem to be stuck in. 

 

Although, to be fair, the pics do include sleepers, inspection saloons, Pullman cars, EMUs, full brakes, buffets, observation cars, post office vehicles, etc.

 

G

[Denbridge]

On 23/05/2019 at 15:16, Lecorbusier said:

My view is that it would be quite hard to argue otherwise .... however, of more interest to me is why? Is it because of the technology? ....perhaps but I'm not sure. I have a sneeking feeling it has more to do with the relative importance of railways in the various eras. If we enter a new railway golden age because of requirements to reduce carbon emmissions .... meaning that the network expands again, with more frequent services and more freight .... I wonder if it will become more interesting. French and Swiss railways certainly appear more interesting than UK ones at present and it could be argues that they do occupy a more pivotal role within those countries?

 

That being said, we will never have the sheer variety of the post war era again, and standardisation is going to be far greater than under the big 4 and earlier ... hey ho!

I think you are pretty much spot on how many choose  the era that we model the railways. My late Uncle and my father both 'spotted' pre 1939 and in both cases had little interest in the post war railways. Indeed, this seemed to be pretty much the given amongst most modellers i was privileged to grow up amongst during my formative years and whilst i do have an interest in post war steam, ive always modelled either Big Four or pre grouping.

[60027Merlin]

With regard to the LMS porthole coaches only now appearing in maroon, the frustration may be because of the fact that the Porthole coaches were first announced by Bachmann in 2011. No doubt many sales for the B. R. maroon versions have been lost in the interim period due to many modellers passing away.

 

It does not look too good for the Thompson coaches in B.R. maroon as the Thompson coaches were first announced in 2009!

 

These dates were given to me by a friend who retains the Bachmann catalogues.

 

 

[davidw]

5 hours ago, Chamby said:

Is it not an interesting paradox, that the lack of a maroon livery for Bachmann’s Thompson coaches seems to be causing so much frustration?  In a thread where ‘doing some modelling’ and creating items of individual character is so strongly advocated, surely the prospect of a straightforward repaint is not that daunting?

 

I wonder whether anyone has actually done this... or is everyone just waiting for Bachmann to release their mass-produced RTR versions, whenever?

There is a thread, where a porthole was repainted to maroon and blue grey. I've resided a couple of retooled Thompson TKs one is now an RF, the other a round windowed SK a pantry 3rd is in the to do pile once I get a cheap donor.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, 60027Merlin said:

With regard to the LMS porthole coaches only now appearing in maroon, the frustration may be because of the fact that the Porthole coaches were first announced by Bachmann in 2011. No doubt many sales for the B. R. maroon versions have been lost in the interim period due to many modellers passing away.

 

It does not look too good for the Thompson coaches in B.R. maroon as the Thompson coaches were first announced in 2009!

 

These dates were given to me by a friend who retains the Bachmann catalogues.

 

 

Have we lost that many of our fellow modellers as to effect sales of a product? 

[davidw]

On 25/05/2019 at 11:11, Flyingscotsmanfan said:

 

There is one thing in common that all coach pictures posted by Tony show, we have truly never been better off for RTR coach offerings. The only wish I would have is that they expand each range beyond the first/third/brake rut that the mainstream manufacturers seem to be stuck in. 

Can't see much effort being placed on coaches in due course. Sadly the average Joe public doesn't care what follows the loco. Portholes in C\C languished on shelves for ages only shifting after heavy discount.

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by davidw

[grahame]

7 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Have we lost that many of our fellow modellers as to effect sales of a product? 

 

Doubtful. And (and it might be wishful thinking) but hopefully those who have passed on will have been replaced by new enthusiasts to the railway modelling fraternity. After all there has been a lot of railway modelling stories in the press and news lately (including TV programmes) and the stock of railway modelling as a hobby must be rising. It even got mentioned in the irreverent Times newspaper columnist's celebrity watch weekly top ten as being up to No. 2. 

 

G

[grahame]

35 minutes ago, davidw said:

 Sadly the average Joe public doesn't care what follows the loco. 

 

 

Maybe Joe public, and perhaps generalist enthusiasts, but what about more discerning modellers like those on this thread (without wanting to be controversial)?

Although they might not exactly account for huge sales volume.

 

G 

[davidw]

1 minute ago, grahame said:

 

Maybe Joe public, and perhaps generalist enthusiasts, but what about more discerning modellers like those on this thread (without wanting to be controversial)?

Although they might not exactly account for huge sales volume.

 

G 

Sales volume will always be the bottom line.

[grahame]

3 minutes ago, davidw said:

Sales volume will always be the bottom line.

 

Of course, but it hasn't stopped manufacturers producing some pretty unusual, unique and limited prototypes as models which ostensibly don't look a good bet for volume sales and potentially a risky proposition. Some have sat on shelves but presumably they have sold sufficient over time although we don't really get to know whether at a loss or profit for each product line. 

 

G

 

[Chamby]

50 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Of course, but it hasn't stopped manufacturers producing some pretty unusual, unique and limited prototypes as models which ostensibly don't look a good bet for volume sales and potentially a risky proposition. Some have sat on shelves but presumably they have sold sufficient over time although we don't really get to know whether at a loss or profit for each product line. 

 

G

 

 

It is usually the Firsts and Brake coaches that linger, sometimes composites but never the thirds.  If the manufacturers produced proportionally more full thirds, then they would sell the lot more readily to those wanting to build up a full rake, rather than expecting people to buy an odd coach or two.

[Northmoor]

Well our leader's thread has passed the 35,000 mark and is now counting through the "Merchant Navies".  Sadly I've just missed out on Canadian Pacific's post.....

 

[APOLLO]

Talking about Leaders, Southern locos and coaches, what a plug ugly loco this was - and what is that tatty old coach behind her it?

 

 

Brit15

Edited May 25, 2019 by APOLLO
Typo

[grahame]

8 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

It is usually the Firsts and Brake coaches that linger, sometimes composites but never the thirds.  

 

I don't think MK2 and MK3 thirds would sell well 

 

The Farish class 50 in LMS stripy maroon livery was probably one of the slowest sellers in N gauge. But it also has a similar coach problem often with too many brakes and firsts and not enough seconds.

 

G

[Clive Mortimore]

17 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Talking about Leaders, Southern locos and coaches, what a plug ugly loco this was - and what is that tatty old coach behind her it?

 

 

Brit15

The same tatty coach that recorded Mallard doing 126mph. https://railsofsheffield.com/news/articles/2897-dynamometer-car

[APOLLO]

ooops !!!

 

Brit15

[60027Merlin]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Have we lost that many of our fellow modellers as to effect sales of a product? 

 

Whilst it would be a matter of conjecture as to how many sales now deceased modellers would have made, the main effect on sales of LMS Porthole coaches is the non appearance of them in B. R. Maroon, (possibly the most popular B. R. livery) over the long period since their announcement 8 years ago.

[Clive Mortimore]

12 minutes ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

Whilst it would be a matter of conjecture as to how many sales now deceased modellers would have made, the main effect on sales of LMS Porthole coaches is the non appearance of them in B. R. Maroon, (possibly the most popular B. R. livery) over the long period since their announcement 8 years ago.

Hopefully the 8 years since they were announced has allowed those who are still alive to save up for them, now they are in the shops.

 

 

Edit, the biggest effect on sales is the £50 plus price tag.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

It is usually the Firsts and Brake coaches that linger, sometimes composites but never the thirds.  If the manufacturers produced proportionally more full thirds, then they would sell the lot more readily to those wanting to build up a full rake, rather than expecting people to buy an odd coach or two.

Useful to look at the numbers of each type of porthole carriage that were built:

 

FK - 15, of which three were lost when almost new in the Weedon and Harrow accidents

BFK - 15 - one lost at Weedon

FO - 20

TK (later SK) - 100

CK - 240

BTK (later BSK) - 439

 

I plan to buy quite a few CKs because Hornby do not do the CK in their Stanier range. Porthole all thirds were not very common but the Bachmann models will probably sell quickly.

[davidw]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

Useful to look at the numbers of each type of porthole carriage that were built:

 

FK - 15, of which three were lost when almost new in the Weedon and Harrow accidents

BFK - 15 - one lost at Weedon

FO - 20

TK (later SK) - 100

CK - 240

BTK (later BSK) - 439

 

I plan to buy quite a few CKs because Hornby do not do the CK in their Stanier range. Porthole all thirds were not very common but the Bachmann models will probably sell quickly.

Any idea  why so many bsk's?

[Compound2632]

701 TKs of the previous design, D2119, to the portholes, D2170, along with 350 TOs, D1999, had been built since carriage building resumed in 1946, but only 225 BTKs to D1968 and 120 to D2123, so perhaps there was a bit of catching up to do?

 

Likewise, 285 D2117 CKs had been built in the same period, before the D2159 porthole CKs.

[thegreenhowards]

5 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Useful to look at the numbers of each type of porthole carriage that were built:

 

FK - 15, of which three were lost when almost new in the Weedon and Harrow accidents

BFK - 15 - one lost at Weedon

FO - 20

TK (later SK) - 100

CK - 240

BTK (later BSK) - 439

 

I plan to buy quite a few CKs because Hornby do not do the CK in their Stanier range. Porthole all thirds were not very common but the Bachmann models will probably sell quickly.

That’s very useful Robert. I’m afraid that my knowledge of LMS coaches is quite basic and mainly comes from reading the information panels on the lovely LMS rake at the Severn Valley railway. The lack of SKs would explain why one doesn’t see many on the ECML relief rakes. 

 

I’m afraid that I don’t find the standard period 3 Staniers very exciting, whereas the Portholes are quite distinctive - a sort of poor man’s Thompson! I can see myself building a relief rake with a couple of Portholes, maybe a period 3 SK and a mix of ex LNER coaches as seen in some of Tony’s photos. 

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

On 24/05/2019 at 11:52, Tony Wright said:

Good question, Andy,

 

How long are you prepared to wait for an answer? 

 

I have thousands of images, and there must be some which show 'Porthole' stock in ECML trains in steam days. It's just a question of finding them.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

No hurry at all. Thanks for the ones you put up of NE area usage, but I’m really looking for South end of the ECML. I have a couple in Blood and Custard already picked up cheaply, so I’ll be looking to add to them in due course but, as your photos show, I can mix them up with ex LNER stock and ring the changes. It would be great to have a definitive late ‘50s photo to base it on, so if you come across one please share it with us, but don’t go trawling through 1000s of photos specially!

 

Andy

[Leander]

3 hours ago, davidw said:

Any idea  why so many bsk's?

 

Because in a three coach BSK/CK/BSK set you need them in a ratio of 2:1. A SK would be added to form a 4 coach set. These were found all over the former LMS syste.

 

A coach style that is often overlooked is the LMS post-war types. Similar in styling to the pre-war period 3 but with additional doors, like the Porthole stock. However they had rectangular rather than round windows.