Wright writes.....

[grahame]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Not only that, have a word with the publishers of books/magazines relating to the 'steam age'. Cancellations of subscriptions now out-weigh new ones by at least two/three to one! 

 

Tony. 

 

10 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I can't help but think that any decline in sales of books and magazines may also be down to the fact that finding new material of high quality and covering subjects that haven't been done to death is difficult.

 

There is a finite number of photographs from steam days and much of what hasn't been published is either poor quality (like the photos my dad and uncle took) or covers things that have already appeared many times before.

 

But what about the publication of railway books about non-steam and featuring modern railways where there is less chance of there being a lack of suitable images and new ones can easily be sought. And then there is the electronic publication alternatives particularly useful for those with full shelves.

 

Railway modelling and railway interest is not solely confined to a specific steam-age historic era. There is hope and opportunity for the future.

 

G

[t-b-g]

7 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

 

But what about the publication of railway books about non-steam and featuring modern railways where there is less chance of there being a lack of suitable images and new ones can easily be sought. And then there is the electronic publication alternatives particularly useful for those with full shelves.

 

Railway modelling and railway interest is not solely confined to a specific steam-age historic era. There is hope and opportunity for the future.

 

G

 

I was responding to Tony's comment about falling subscriptions and sales for steam era books and magazines. I have no idea on sales of more modern subject matter.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The managers of arts organisations and the like are often to be heard saying that they need to reach out to a younger audience as their current audience is getting on. Apart from the implicit ageism in this attitude, there is, I think, a failure to recognise that it is the late middle aged who have the time and resources to indulge in such things - and there is a steady supply of newly late middle aged people...

 

I do believe the same is true of our hobby but what we will see as the next, post-steam, late middle aged cohort comes along is much less of a focus on BR steam than there has been. I think this is starting to be seen at exhibitions, where the best layouts are set well beyond living memory and depend on meticulous research rather than personal recollection for their authenticity. 

 

Chamby's just said much the same.

You could very well be right.

 

I think there is an emergence of (high-quality) layouts being built which are set in a time much, much earlier than their builders could ever have witnessed. 

 

Are there, though, a large number of (new) layouts being built featuring what the next generation of trainspotters on from mine witnessed - the first post-steam era, up to the end of the '70s and into the '80s? If there are, it's unlikely that much of the stock will have been 'built'. That might be the big difference. Up to relatively recently, any builders of a system representing what they saw as steam 'spotters, to be 'comprehensive' will have had to make most locos and stock. Of course, that's not the case now, but don't expect me to be (personally) to be too enthused by a plethora of RTR items, no matter how good it might be at source or a starting point. 

 

Though only personally anecdotal, when Mo and I have attempted to find new homes on behalf of bereaved families, in most cases those buying what's on offer are of much the same generation as the guy who's recently died. I suppose this is not surprising, because they're mainly steam-outline locos and steam-hauled stock - what folk remember! 

 

As for second-hand books from a deceased's collection? Forget it, I almost have to give them away!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

59 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

 

But what about the publication of railway books about non-steam and featuring modern railways where there is less chance of there being a lack of suitable images and new ones can easily be sought. And then there is the electronic publication alternatives particularly useful for those with full shelves.

 

Railway modelling and railway interest is not solely confined to a specific steam-age historic era. There is hope and opportunity for the future.

 

G

I've never said that railway modelling is solely confined to a specific steam-age historic era, Grahame,

 

I think it's safe to say that it's the most popular right now, though; if magazines, layouts (at shows and in the media) and the number of new models I have to photograph are anything to go by. 

 

As for new books, if the 37 images of covers in Book Law's latest advert are anything to go by, only nine cover non-steam subjects, and three of those feature DMUs in the late-steam-era. 

 

That said, the six recent bookazines I've either written or been involved with for Irwell Press all feature non-steam subjects, and they've sold really well!

 

The wonderful models you make are inspirational to all modellers, not just to those who make steam-outline subjects.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Theakerr]

I am now aware of four sort of new Modellers who are in their 40's.   In two cases they are modelling LNER, another is modelling CP steam/diesel era and the forth is modelling  early diesel Algoma Central.   I think that with the internet,  the advent of affordable photography in the late 50' making it possible to see pictures, other records such as ordinance survey maps and quiet a strong interest in the past, there might very well be a growth in 'historical modelling' .  Certainly the RTR manufacturers are helping to make such modelling possible. 

[RThompson]

I think some people forget that steam did continue after 1968, but on private industrial railways right up to the 1980's.

 

Plenty of variety in locos and rolling stock and in bold bright liveries.

 

There still is loads of material materialising about industrial railways through the years.

 

Railway bylines is the only mainstream magazine I buy every month.

 

About liveries, yes lots of swirls and swishes as mentioned but it also feels like nationalisation is dawning with Virgin west coast, Abellio greater Anglia and Transport for Wales sporting the same livery style?

[t-b-g]

I can understand why modellers look for different eras and areas to model. Sometimes it is nice to go the opposite direction to the rest of the herd.

 

 

[Tony Teague]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's either Hornby or Golden Age, Michael,

 

I can't remember right now.

 

There's not a huge amount of difference, other than in the respective prices!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

A model of this prototype in Devon Belle guise was also produced by OO Works; my view - the Hornby model is actually the best of the three.

 

Here's my pic of the very wet prototype at its current home:

 

 

Tony

 

[asmay2002]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

You could very well be right.

 

I think there is an emergence of (high-quality) layouts being built which are set in a time much, much earlier than their builders could ever have witnessed. 

 

Are there, though, a large number of (new) layouts being built featuring what the next generation of trainspotters on from mine witnessed - the first post-steam era, up to the end of the '70s and into the '80s? If there are, it's unlikely that much of the stock will have been 'built'.

A little while back on this thread I plotted up the results of an RMweb survey on what people modelled and what they wanted to model.  Two things about it were striking.    Interest in the early post steam era was abnormaly low - the people who were spotter age in this era are reluctant to model it although some good models do exist. There was also rather more interest in the earlier eras beyond living memory than people modelling them - presumably because of the paucity of RTR trade support - suggesting an untapped market. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, grahame said:

"Railway modelling and railway interest is not solely confined to a specific steam-age historic era. There is hope and opportunity for the future."

 

G

Mine is, but new books of the LNWR continue to appear, so there is definitely hope for whatever future is left to me.

[Northmoor]

30 minutes ago, RThompson said:

I think some people forget that steam did continue after 1968, but on private industrial railways right up to the 1980's.

 

Plenty of variety in locos and rolling stock and in bold bright liveries.

 

There still is loads of material materialising about industrial railways through the years.

Just as enthusiasts will model what interests them, when they are playing with their full-scale trains they seem to do much the same.  In 12"=1ft preservation, I often get the impression industrial railways are seen as not "real" railways.  There is almost a desperation to paint Austerity tanks and other industrial locos in (often fictional) BR or Big 4 liveries, as if this somehow makes them more important.  I know preserved lines are usually on former parts of the national network, but many are on the most minor branch lines and almost indistinguishable from many industrial lines to quarries, collieries etc., so the locos wouldn't look out of place.

 

The general public and children in particular, would much prefer a small engine painted in a bright colour with a name on the side (we have the Rev. Awdry to thank for that). 

[Headstock]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I can't say I've measured up every one regarding ride-height, Andrew,

 

I'm more interested in relative ride-heights. By that I mean, if a rake is consistent (whatever it's made up from - RTR/kit/modified/RTR) in itself and consistent in height with the loco which is hauling it, then, in most regards, that's fine. Not fine, of course, if everything rides too high or too low. 

 

Assuming everything rides at the same height. There are plenty of prototype examples where this is not the case! 

 

Am I enthusiastically advertising shiny new products? Do you really think that? Once again, my powers of writing coherent English must be sadly disappearing. I'd rather hoped I'd come across over all these pages as an advocate (an enthusiastic one at that!) of folk making things for themselves, and not just being content with buying RTR stuff, however shiny. 

 

All those pictures of carriages I posted are from my picture library, taken (in the main) for magazine use. They ether show what's new (or what was new) or were part of a series for review. 

 

Actually, many of the subjects are not that shiny, but, it cannot be disputed, most are very good models indeed.

 

And, I've never thought of using Hornby (or Bachmann) wheels. One of the first jobs is to replace them with Romford/Jackson/Markits alternatives. They must certainly have improved since the last lot I had wobbled along!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Evening Tony,

 

I was pondering the collection of approximately thirty RTR carriages up thread. It occurs to me (perhaps this is relevant to the conversation with regard to historical vs. nostalgia modeling) that only four out of the thirty would be suitable for my own modeling place and time and that two out of the four are such terrible models that I would not use them.

 

My own test running has revealed no discernible difference between the current Hornby Bogie wheels and Markits, though when building bogies I prefer Gibson, as  they are esthetically superior to both.

 

There is definitely a decline in numbers participating in the hobby, the chief of Bachmann has said as much. In a recent interview he acknowledged that the present situation as regards RTR is not sustainable, unless a large number of new punters are encouraged into the hobby in a way that was not necessary in the past.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Headstock

[Compound2632]

55 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Mine is, but new books of the LNWR continue to appear, so there is definitely hope for whatever future is left to me.

 

Much more archival material is now much more readily accessible - and being published - thanks to the efforts of the line societies. Those of us who model what we have not seen must perforce rely on the fruits of that research - and contribute to it ourselves, where we can. But I'm just repeating what I wrote earlier.

 

I'm a strong believer in the model as historical document, at least if it is going to be put before the public.

[Clive Mortimore]

I am still at a loss. have we really had that many modellers die to effect the sales of LMS porthole coaches in BR maroon livery?

 

Bachmann better get their finger out with the Bulleid and Thompson's in BR livery before there is no one left to remember them.

[Dave John]

Hmm, In order for me to have witnessed the era I model I would have to be about 130 years old. 

 

Mind you there are times when I feel like it, and at the wrong time of day I suspect I may look like it. 

 

Good points have been made: I'd agree that finding new and unpublished information is not easy. That said our ability as modelmakers to represent that history is constantly challenged by new techniques. Every time the rtr manufacturers improve so do we kit and scratchbuilders. 

 

Many things both inside and outside of modelmaking are in flux these days. We debate it endlessly, but it seems to me the there is an inate creative urge in folk. I am actually optimistic. Modelmaking may change, but I think it will continue for a long time yet. 

 

 

[Bucoops]

11 hours ago, Theakerr said:

I am now aware of four sort of new Modellers who are in their 40's.   In two cases they are modelling LNER, another is modelling CP steam/diesel era and the forth is modelling  early diesel Algoma Central.   I think that with the internet,  the advent of affordable photography in the late 50' making it possible to see pictures, other records such as ordinance survey maps and quiet a strong interest in the past, there might very well be a growth in 'historical modelling' .  Certainly the RTR manufacturers are helping to make such modelling possible. 

 

I'm in that boat. Dabbled in my teens, back to it now in my 40s attempting to model 1939 LNER. Attempting as time available still isn't enough lol

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I am still at a loss. have we really had that many modellers die to effect the sales of LMS porthole coaches in BR maroon livery?

 

Bachmann better get their finger out with the Bulleid and Thompson's in BR livery before there is no one left to remember them.

At a loss, Clive?

 

I'm always at a loss!

 

If one modeller, who would have considered buying Bachmann Porthole stock in maroon, dies in the time between the model's announcement and its appearance (near a decade?), then that will affect sales. At least by one (or two, or three.......). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hello Tony

 

The doom and gloom about your generation being the last railway modellers I think is a wee bit premature.

 

This coming weekend is DEMUs Showcase where I will be one of the eldest there. Please do come along and see some very high class modelling by done by our next generations of grumpy old men. 

 

1st/2nd June 2019 at the Green Bank Leisure Centre Civic Way, Swadlincote, South Derbyshire, DE11 0AD Map

 

Confirmed Layouts

Bere Banks (4mm OO)

Brettell Road (4mm P4)

Brunswick Yard (4mm P4)

Dalnottar Riverside (7mm O)

Forth Bridge (T)

Great Endon (OO)

Hornsey Broadway (4mm EM)

Horseblock Lane (2mm N)

Ketton Cement (2mm 2FS)

Norwood Road (4mm OO)

Parrot Hall (4mm OO)

Readham (4mm OO)

Opening Times

Saturday 1st June 2019 10.00 - 17.00
Sunday 2nd June 2019 10.00 - 16.00

 

Tickets

Available on the door

Adults £10

DEMU members / children (U16) £6

Families (2 adults and unlimited children) £24

 

More details can be found on the Showcase website here

 

Yours

 

Clive

DEMU Committee member.

 

[Tony Wright]

13 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I can't help but think that any decline in sales of books and magazines may also be down to the fact that finding new material of high quality and covering subjects that haven't been done to death is difficult.

 

There is a finite number of photographs from steam days and much of what hasn't been published is either poor quality (like the photos my dad and uncle took) or covers things that have already appeared many times before.

 

I have bought a few books recently that cover my area of interest just for the one or two photos that I haven't already got.

 

Also, many people have full bookshelves and no room to keep adding purchases. I am in that situation and so are several people I know. So purchases are limited to "must haves" rather than "I quite fancy that".

 

Apart from MRJ I find most modelling magazines unreadable. Lots of variable quality photos of mostly RTR models but very little to read! They are too full of RTR, DCC and many pages on new product releases, with very little to do with making models, so I stopped buying them unless there is something of personal interest.

 

So there are factors other than modellers falling off their perch!  

Thanks Tony,

 

As always, a sensible and measured post.

 

Regarding magazines, I'm actually paid to (proof) read BRM each month, though I don't manage to always intercept every blooper (the difference between 'birthing' and 'berthing' this issue, though I'm not sure I saw the caption in question). 

 

I think the MRJ is a very good magazine (though I don't always see it). In my view it's by the far the best with regard to what appeals to me in modelling. However, it's not exempt from 'variable quality photographs' in my opinion. The most-recent issues show Geoff Kent's absolutely beautiful Black Lion Crossing. Can there be a better example of subtle and natural observation applied to a model railway? Yet, in my view, I thought the pictures showing it were either too 'flat' or the colours weren't that subtle at all. I assume Barry Norman took the pictures? He's one of the finest model railway photographers ever. 

 

I offer some of my humble efforts by way of a comparison. An article (I hope) will eventually appear in BRM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this the 'finest' model railway on the circuit right now? I can think of none better.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Chamby]

So we’re saying that Maroon portholes, Thompson’s and Bulleid’s are an obvious ‘quick win’ for Bachmann, and there is no apparent reason for holding off their availability.  If anything, they may be losing sales by delaying their launch.

 

Apart from the fact that it might give a time ‘window’ for the potentially less popular liveries to sell first, there doesn’t seem to be any obvious reason to hold back.  So why?

 

Recent RTR locomotive launches have mostly introduced multiple liveries in parallel...look at Hatton’s announced tranche of Class 66’s for example.  But Oxford Rail do seem to be bucking the trend with their N7... introducing the Grey Pre-grouping livery first, three months later we are just getting the LNER version, but no sight of the British Railways liveried one yet.  

 

I wonder which is the most profitable option...hitting the market with everything at once, or phasing the different liveries, introducing the least popular first?  Maybe someone in the trade can enlighten us...

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

The doom and gloom about your generation being the last railway modellers I think is a wee bit premature.

 

This coming weekend is DEMUs Showcase where I will be one of the eldest there. Please do come along and see some very high class modelling by done by our next generations of grumpy old men. 

 

1st/2nd June 2019 at the Green Bank Leisure Centre Civic Way, Swadlincote, South Derbyshire, DE11 0AD Map

 

Confirmed Layouts

Bere Banks (4mm OO)

Brettell Road (4mm P4)

Brunswick Yard (4mm P4)

Dalnottar Riverside (7mm O)

Forth Bridge (T)

Great Endon (OO)

Hornsey Broadway (4mm EM)

Horseblock Lane (2mm N)

Ketton Cement (2mm 2FS)

Norwood Road (4mm OO)

Parrot Hall (4mm OO)

Readham (4mm OO)

Opening Times

Saturday 1st June 2019 10.00 - 17.00
Sunday 2nd June 2019 10.00 - 16.00

 

Tickets

Available on the door

Adults £10

DEMU members / children (U16) £6

Families (2 adults and unlimited children) £24

 

More details can be found on the Showcase website here

 

Yours

 

Clive

DEMU Committee member.

 

Good morning Clive,

 

I really do wish folk would actually read what I actually write. Or, I need to examine my abilities at written English, because, obviously, my 'command' of our marvellous mother tongue is sadly-lacking!

 

Where have I written that my generation is the 'last' one in this hobby? Looking back, I've said it probably has the largest number of participants right now, and by simple mathematics, it's beginning to die out. Our Biblical age is three score years and ten. That already puts me on borrowed time!

 

Looking at your list above, it would seem that the next generation is actually 'alive and well'. But, is it as large as the one preceding it? 

 

Going back to my previous observations, it would seem (talking to the RTR manufacturers) that the most-popular period right now for modelling is the BR steam/diesel transition time - the late-50s/early-'60s. Why? The trainspotting generation - that's why. Even then, steam-outline models tend to sell three times more than a same-period diesel- or electric-outline example. This cannot last.

 

There's one side of me which really doesn't give a toss. So what if I'm right or wrong? It's really irrelevant what happens to the hobby. Though I still earn money from it, it's not essential, and, if I stopped it would mean just driving an older car, fewer meals out and 'cutting cloth' accordingly. I'm not RTR-dependent at all, I have more kits in stock to build than I have years left to complete them, a goodly number of motors/gearboxes/wheels and raw materials, and plans for another (exhibition) model railway, as LB is now almost complete. Obviously, if shows diminish in number, I won't have anywhere to take it, but I'll enjoy building it. Anyway, such is the number of visitors to see LB, that I effectively run a series of many, one-layout shows! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Tony,

 

I was pondering the collection of approximately thirty RTR carriages up thread. It occurs to me (perhaps this is relevant to the conversation with regard to historical vs. nostalgia modeling) that only four out of the thirty would be suitable for my own modeling place and time and that two out of the four are such terrible models that I would not use them.

 

My own test running has revealed no discernible difference between the current Hornby Bogie wheels and Markits, though when building bogies I prefer Gibson, as  they are esthetically superior to both.

 

There is definitely a decline in numbers participating in the hobby, the chief of Bachmann has said as much. In a recent interview he acknowledged that the present situation as regards RTR is not sustainable, unless a large number of new punters are encouraged into the hobby in a way that was not necessary in the past.

Thanks Andrew,

 

Though Gibson wheels might be aesthetically superior to current Hornby ones, or Romford/Jackson/Markits ones, my experiences in the past with them mean I don't now use them at all. 

 

It could well be that I'm prejudiced, and that the latest ones are now very good but I've had many which weren't concentric, had tyres falling off, kept on going out of gauge, and as for driving wheels, never again! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[grahame]

Hmmm, you're sounding a little despondent there, Tony, about the future of railway modelling. It maybe that the spread and future broadens to encompass less steam era subjects but is that really such a bad thing if railway modelling continues? And who knows, maybe steam outline modelling wont fade away but other genres will take off and increase the overall pie size. There's much more awareness now about the hobby with TV programs, the recent sad vandalism news, celebrities championing it and exhibitions like DEMU's ShowCase. As Clive says, some of the doom and gloom is probably a little premature. 

 

G

[Chamby]

20 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The most-recent issues show Geoff Kent's absolutely beautiful Black Lion Crossing. Can there be a better example of subtle and natural observation applied to a model railway? .....

Is this the 'finest' model railway on the circuit right now? I can think of none better.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Without doubt this is an exquisite model, Tony, but something just didn’t seem right as I was perusing your most excellent photographs.  Then I realised that they were completely devoid of people... not one human figure is visible anywhere!  Maybe there should be some post-apocalyptic tumbleweed blowing across the sidings instead?

 

Seriously though, I accept that the model was probably unfinished when these pictures were taken, but it serves to show that there is usually something still that can be done, even with the very best modelling!

[Clive Mortimore]

On 25/05/2019 at 14:40, Clive Mortimore said:

Have we lost that many of our fellow modellers as to effect sales of a product? 

Hello Tony

 

You say that you wish people would read what you wrote, I know the feeling. Three days ago I questioned if the number of modellers who have passed away had effected the sales of Stanier porthole coaches in BR livery. It seems the speculation form people on this thread it has, without any substantive evidence. I am pretty sure next time I attend an exhibition or a model shop I will not be able to purchase a model of a second corridor coach as they would have all been sold, which has been the case for many types of coaches.  So who is buying them if the customer base is fewer in numbers?