Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

 

Today, I had the privilege of attending another meeting of a 2mm FS Area Group at Laurie Adams' home.

 

Thank you Laurie, and all the members for a marvellous day. 

 

But, particular thanks to Nick Mitchell, who gave us a talk on interlocking. Nick also brought some of his locos, including (above) this magnificent 'Princess Royal'. Thanks to Ian Smeeton for sending me the picture (I didn't take my camera).

 

More to follow....................

 

 

[Guest]

I’d be proud if I had built that in 4mm scale never mind 2mm scale. 

[Tony Wright]

Ian also sent me this picture.................................

 

 

This 9F by Nick Mitchell is the most amazing loco I think I've ever seen; in any scale/gauge. In 2mm FS he's actually made the valve gear on this loco reversible! Yes, the radius rod can be moved up and down by use of a tiny motor situated at the front of the boiler. It's all controlled by DCC, and this is DCC which works - brilliantly! Nick also showed us a DCC device which I think is called 'Stay Alive', which is a capacitor with enough 'juice' stored in to enable a loco to continue running should it hit a dirty spot on the rails. Fantastic!

 

Two years ago, Nick and some of his friends visited LB, and he brought some of his models then.

 

 

This is a much-improved Farish Austerity, with 2mm FS wheels, altered valve gear and much detailing. 

 

 

The Lanky 2-4-2T is now complete and painted, but the Coal Tank is still in this condition. Working to this standard takes time.

 

Once again, thanks to all for a great day.

[Tony Wright]

Here's Nick Mitchell's painted Lank 2-4-2T

 

 

Thanks again to Ian Smeeton for the picture...............................

Edited June 2, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Atso said:

 

Sorry Tony, my comment was make with tongue firmly in cheek...

The N2 is sitting on a proprietary chassis, a slightly modified Farish 4F. While the wheelbase is wrong, the front and rear driving wheels are more or less in the right place. 

No need to apologise, Steve,

 

My tongue (unless it's telling someone off) is always in my cheek!

 

And that's a super N2 as well.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Barry Ten]

I hesitate to present this impressionist effort after that array of 2mm excellence, but here's my Bird undergoing running trials (temporarily borrowing City of Truro''s tender):

 

 

I'm having trouble with retaining the outside cranks, for which I'd be grateful for any advice. They were a very sloppy fit on the extended axles and the Loctite retainer I've been using isn't grabbing them firmly enough to stop them going out of quarter. Is there a preferred method for fixing such things. assuming that soldering won't work between steel and nickle-silver?

 

Al

[Dave Hunt]

I've soldered steel to nickel silver quite successfully many times using ordinary Bakers fluid flux. 

 

Dave

[Atso]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

No need to apologise, Steve,

 

My tongue (unless it's telling someone off) is always in my cheek!

 

And that's a super N2 as well.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you Tony.

 

Nick's locomotives are superb and are a real credit to his skill and ability. My own efforts are most certainly inferior to such brilliance.

 

The N2 is one of at least three that will run on Hadley Wood and will likely end up sharing duties with an N1, N7, A5 and (the out of period) V1. Considering that around 40-50 locomotives will eventually be required, I am more than happy to run or adapt RTR whenever the trade produces something suitable. For example I am the proud owner of eleven Dapol A3s (around half 'in the works' being detailed/altered to represent various A1s and A3s) and five Dapol A4s. These are a major leap forward compared to the Farish and Minitrix offerings from years past but do benefit from some addition detailing and (in the case of the A3s) minor livery corrections.

 

As my birthday is just around the corner, Kate has been pestering me about a present. Therefore today, she placed a largish order with Isinglass for various carriage drawings. Most of these are of ex-GNR prototypes but I've also asked for one of the essential LNER builds that isn't covered in the late Nick Campling's excellent book. After various 3D printing experiments, I've concluded that the bulk of these coaches would be better produced in etched nickel silver but I'll have to give the designs some thought to try and keep the overall weight down.

 

Off topic, we spent this afternoon at the St. Albans Steam and County show where we found one Professor Watson and his one sixth(?) scale traction engine, Frederick. We were lucky enough to each get a ride with Tim and Frederick was kind enough to boil some water for an excellent cup of tea! Thanks Tim.

[Jesse Sim]

Morning all,

 

thought I would share this photo of my A2 hauling a parcels train south through Brighton Junction, I really need to fix that tender, the chassis and body have decided to come apart. 

 

I also need to get a move on with that Department train. 

[polybear]

9 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I hesitate to present this impressionist effort after that array of 2mm excellence, but here's my Bird undergoing running trials (temporarily borrowing City of Truro''s tender):

 

 

I'm having trouble with retaining the outside cranks, for which I'd be grateful for any advice. They were a very sloppy fit on the extended axles and the Loctite retainer I've been using isn't grabbing them firmly enough to stop them going out of quarter. Is there a preferred method for fixing such things. assuming that soldering won't work between steel and nickle-silver?

 

Al

 

As already mentioned, I'd suggest:

1. Soldering, using a suitable flux

2. Drill thru' crank and axle, then pin

3. A stronger adhesive (what grade of Loctite are you using - they do some "concrete" grades.  Their technical help line is usually worth a call for advice)

4. Is making a new, tight-fitting set of outside cranks an option, or are there some already available from the likes of Judith Edge maybe?

 

HTH

Brian

[Tony Wright]

13 hours ago, Anglian said:

I agree about Chee Tor – I always thought the decision to have the single track was a shame as it detracted from the 'mainline through the Peaks theme' on which the layout was based. I know the builders said they wanted a reason to stop trains at the front of the layout but I never understood why they didn't put in a lie-by and have slower trains set back. This would have enabled more activity (with both up and down mainlines) and been more prototypical considering the line they were modelling.

By belief about the reason for a single track tunnel on Chee Tor is that the original trackplan was supposed to represent a section of the Somerset & Dorset. 

 

The trackplan was decided upon (appropriate for the S&D, with its single-track sections) but the geography was then changed.  

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I hesitate to present this impressionist effort after that array of 2mm excellence, but here's my Bird undergoing running trials (temporarily borrowing City of Truro''s tender):

 

 

I'm having trouble with retaining the outside cranks, for which I'd be grateful for any advice. They were a very sloppy fit on the extended axles and the Loctite retainer I've been using isn't grabbing them firmly enough to stop them going out of quarter. Is there a preferred method for fixing such things. assuming that soldering won't work between steel and nickle-silver?

 

Al

Never hesitate to post examples of your work on here, Al,

 

It's your work, after all, and nothing can take away from that. 

 

When I saw the 2mm excellence on view yesterday, I was in awe. The time spent by Nick Mitchell in making his locos was at least ten times more of that priceless commodity than I expend in making my own; maybe more. In the case of the 9F, he'd been building it for over a decade (not continuously, obviously). Interestingly, he's not going to make another loco with reversible valve gear!

 

As others have said, soldering nickel silver to steel is no problem. Complete cleanliness, plenty of heat, 145 degree solder and lashings of flux and it works. I've built about six GWR locos with outside cranks (none for myself, of course!), and all have worked fine, if a bit fiddly. The beauty of using solder to anchor the cranks is that they can subsequently be adjusted for perfect quartering. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Michael Edge]

15 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

As already mentioned, I'd suggest:

1. Soldering, using a suitable flux

2. Drill thru' crank and axle, then pin

3. A stronger adhesive (what grade of Loctite are you using - they do some "concrete" grades.  Their technical help line is usually worth a call for advice)

4. Is making a new, tight-fitting set of outside cranks an option, or are there some already available from the likes of Judith Edge maybe?

 

HTH

Brian

Soldering the cranks to the axle shouldn't be a problem with the right flux - but it will be now after you have got Loctite on the axle. If these are the old Romford cranks they are very thin and difficult to keep in place even when soldered, I used to thread a 10BA brass nut on the end of the axle and then solder the crank to both. We don't have any etched cranks of this shape but Markits now have a range of machined cranks to fit Romford axles, they are a bit expensive though.

[queensquare]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Ian also sent me this picture.................................

 

 

This 9F by Nick Mitchell is the most amazing loco I think I've ever seen; in any scale/gauge. In 2mm FS he's actually made the valve gear on this loco reversible! Yes, the radius rod can be moved up and down by use of a tiny motor situated at the front of the boiler. It's all controlled by DCC, and this is DCC which works - brilliantly! Nick also showed us a DCC device which I think is called 'Stay Alive', which is a capacitor with enough 'juice' stored in to enable a loco to continue running should it hit a dirty spot on the rails. Fantastic!

 

Two years ago, Nick and some of his friends visited LB, and he brought some of his models then.

 

 

This is a much-improved Farish Austerity, with 2mm FS wheels, altered valve gear and much detailing. 

 

 

The Lanky 2-4-2T is now complete and painted, but the Coal Tank is still in this condition. Working to this standard takes time.

 

Once again, thanks to all for a great day.

 

Anyone who wants to see more of Nick's techniques in 2mm can watch this excellent series of videos he made illustrating his building of a Nigel Hunt Jubilee chassis kit - much to be learnt regardless of your favoured scale.

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/jubilee/index.html

 

Standards will drop at Laurie Adams' 2mm meet in September as the guest speaker will be yours truly - the Bath Queensquare project is the subject supported by a selection of red and blue engines.

 

Jerry 

[Long John Silver]

10 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I hesitate to present this impressionist effort after that array of 2mm excellence, but here's my Bird undergoing running trials (temporarily borrowing City of Truro''s tender):

 

 

I'm having trouble with retaining the outside cranks, for which I'd be grateful for any advice. They were a very sloppy fit on the extended axles and the Loctite retainer I've been using isn't grabbing them firmly enough to stop them going out of quarter. Is there a preferred method for fixing such things. assuming that soldering won't work between steel and nickle-silver?

 

Al

For outside cranks I use a similar method to Mike Edge, but I fit a Romford Wheel Nut to the end of the extended axle, and solder the cranks to the nut and axle. The wheel nut gives you a good surface area to solder to. I think it was a West Coast Kit Centre suggestion or maybe one of Iain Rice’s.  As Tony says easy then to adjust the quartering. I’ve only built two outside framed locos but neither has ever thrown a crank.

I think you’ve caught the look of the Bulldog really well.

Jon

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

Anyone who wants to see more of Nick's techniques in 2mm can watch this excellent series of videos he made illustrating his building of a Nigel Hunt Jubilee chassis kit - much to be learnt regardless of your favoured scale.

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/jubilee/index.html

 

Standards will drop at Laurie Adams' 2mm meet in September as the guest speaker will be yours truly - the Bath Queensquare project is the subject supported by a selection of red and blue engines.

 

Jerry 

I look forward to it, Jerry,

 

I've been asked to do a guest speaker spot at some future time.

 

I certainly won't talk about how I build my own locos, because the methodology is so different.

 

 

Not only that, the standards that Nick sets are far higher than the standards I set with the likes of this DJH 'Princess Coronation' in OO. Not only that, there's the huge difference in the time taken. So far, the model above has taken me about 20 hours, on and off, to reach this stage. A further 15-20 hours' work should see it complete bar painting (which I won't be doing). 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Nick's building of his magnificent 'Princess Royal' took at least five times longer - perhaps more. Even ten?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[CF MRC]

It doesn’t matter how long you take to make a model, so long as you enjoy doing it. 

 

Tim

[Nick Mitchell]

Seeing as I'm being talked about  I thought I might offer some context to the extreme length of time some of my my locos have taken to emerge.

 

I seriously got into building rather than buying models about 15 years ago. Back then I started several loco kits, getting stuck at various places with each of them, and moving onto something else until I found the confidence to go back and tackle the job. It is only in the last 5 years or so that I have discovered it is possible to finish things off, and I have been able to return to the likes of the 9F and Princess and complete them.

 

In the Princess, for example, you see my first attempt to turn a chimney. There were several other turned parts required for that model, and I had to learn how to use a watchmakers' lathe in order to make them. While that stretched out the time to make the Princess, I was able to use that skill for subsequent projects - for example the dome for the Radial Tank which I happened to video. (The video is sped up to take 11 minutes, but in reality it took about an hour to make.) There were other aspects to that kit, such as forming the taper boiler and firebox from flat etchings which added considerably to the challenge (and time) that a kit with a cast boiler such as the 9F neatly side-steps... although the 9F made up for it in many other ways! There are lots of skills to be acquired over a modelling life time, and for me, that is part of the enjoyment.

 

I would fully expect a similar loco now to take significantly less time overall - though how much actual modelling time I have spent on just these two models, I could not begin to quantify. I'm happy for it to take as long as it takes, so long as I end up with something I'm really happy with.

 

Jerry has kindly plugged my Jubilee videos. They constitute "slow television", and I deliberately set out to show the whole construction in as near real time as I could - warts and all. The entire series is a mind-numbing 30 hours long. Some of the repetitive tasks are missing from the video, but that is compensated for by the fact that filming slowed some other aspects down quite a bit. I reckon 35 hours is fair measure of the fastest I could currently build that kind of replacement chassis with valve gear. Those 30 hours were spread over 6 months, however. Editing the video and recording narration accounted for very many more hours. Though the PECO body still stands up well, there is still some detailing work I would like to do to it. Then there's the painting - another skill to be mastered, and something I still find stressful as the previous decade's work has the potential to be hideously ruined! I found out just how quickly I could paint and simply weather a model when I was getting the 9F ready to appear on the magnificent Fence Houses at York this Easter... the paint wasn't quite dry, and I can see from Ian Smeeton's photo that a fair bit of it is now rubbing off round the extremities.

 

I've attached below a few cruel close-ups of the Princess to prove that it does own a smokebox door (it got left at home when I took the loco to the meeting yesterday!). It will be finished as 46210 Lady Patricia, as running circa 1950 in blue. Just a couple more details to add (including the injectors and associated pipework under the cab) before painting. This one is set permanently in forward gear.

 

 

 

 

Finally, here is a "train in the landscape" shot of the 9F crossing Victoria Viaduct just before closing time on Easter Monday, pulling a rake of coal hoppers built by Chris Mills. Believe it or not, York was the first time one of my locos has run on a layout and pulled a train successfully... Seeing it still going strong at the end of 3 days was worth every minute of the extended gestation period.

 

[john new]

On 22/05/2019 at 10:25, Tony Wright said:

Good morning John,

 

An 18 Watt iron will just slightly warm up any castings. 

 

What you need is a proper temperature-controlled iron, of at least 50W. I don't now what your Maplin's iron's wattage is, but unless it's properly temperature-controlled, all it'll do is lower the temperature and the wattage at the same time. A 'proper' TC iron just lowers the temperature of the bit, but the wattage (it's power of recovery) remains the same. They are not cheap!

 

Might I suggest you obtain some spare/scrap white metal and practise your techniques on that! Ask Dave Ellis of SE Finecast if he'll sell you some malformed castings. 

 

Once you master soldering, you'll then only use glue for what it's really good at fixing - wood and plastic. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Having had good service over many years with Antex kit is this one recommended? Model - TCS50W.

https://www.antex.co.uk/products/precision-range-soldering-irons/tcs50w/

[polybear]

26 minutes ago, john new said:

 

Having had good service over many years with Antex kit is this one recommended? Model - TCS50W.

https://www.antex.co.uk/products/precision-range-soldering-irons/tcs50w/

 

No idea (I recall some have reported that Antex are perhaps not what they were) but I do know that Xytronic are well regarded (Geoff Haynes uses one I believe):

 

https://www.rapidonline.com/xytronic-lf-1700-100w-digital-soldering-station-85-6890

https://multi-com.eu/,details,id_pr,14350,key,xytronic-lf1700-soldering-station-100w,smenu,service_tools.html

 

HTH

Brian

[Tony Wright]

48 minutes ago, john new said:

 

Having had good service over many years with Antex kit is this one recommended? Model - TCS50W.

https://www.antex.co.uk/products/precision-range-soldering-irons/tcs50w/

I don't know, John,

 

It's certainly different from my TC Antex, which has a great big box to control the temperature. The one you've shown is also cheaper. 

 

I don't think mine (660 TC) is made any more. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, CF MRC said:

It doesn’t matter how long you take to make a model, so long as you enjoy doing it. 

 

Tim

I'd agree with that sentiment, Tim, but I think it has to be put in the context of what one hopes to achieve with a modelling project. 

 

45 years ago (and counting) I made the decision to try and recreate (many of) the locos and trains of my trainspotting years. If that sounds like planning, then, if it is, it's luck. Obviously working with friends building layouts down the years depicting ER subjects, I didn't need to do all the work on them. I was, thus, able to concentrate on what I was 'reasonably' good at - building locos and stock. 

 

And, here comes my point about context. The culmination of all the layout building I've been involved with is Little Bytham. On that at any one time there are near 60 different trains; some long, some short, but every one (apart from the DMU set) needing a locomotive. Given a 'reasonable' cover figure, I'd say a minimum of 100 locos is needed - if nothing else, just to ring the changes. I've set a figure of three locos for every train - getting on for 200; almost all of which, I've built. I still continue to build locos, because, as you suggest, I enjoy doing it. 

 

There are two principal differences between my approach to building locos and Nick Mitchell's. One is I'm nowhere near good enough to even approach the standards he achieves, and, two, I don't have the patience anyway to spend hundreds of hours (even spread over time) making a single locomotive. And, it's the time factor which decides my approach to building anything. 

 

Nick showed us the plans (and wonderful little models of models) for the layout he wants to build - a long-closed bit of a Lancs & Yorks single-track branch. When finished, it'll be incredible I'm sure. But (even accounting for the differences in scale) it's a very different proposition to what I (with help, of course) have set out to do; and achieved? All within a little over the Biblical lifespan - so far! 

 

I believe Nick was born in the '70s, making him in his 40s now? If I hadn't had been part of a group which had built a layout (completed) by the time I was in my 40s, I'd have given up. But, that's me. We're all different.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.   

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

Seeing as I'm being talked about  I thought I might offer some context to the extreme length of time some of my my locos have taken to emerge.

 

I seriously got into building rather than buying models about 15 years ago. Back then I started several loco kits, getting stuck at various places with each of them, and moving onto something else until I found the confidence to go back and tackle the job. It is only in the last 5 years or so that I have discovered it is possible to finish things off, and I have been able to return to the likes of the 9F and Princess and complete them.

 

In the Princess, for example, you see my first attempt to turn a chimney. There were several other turned parts required for that model, and I had to learn how to use a watchmakers' lathe in order to make them. While that stretched out the time to make the Princess, I was able to use that skill for subsequent projects - for example the dome for the Radial Tank which I happened to video. (The video is sped up to take 11 minutes, but in reality it took about an hour to make.) There were other aspects to that kit, such as forming the taper boiler and firebox from flat etchings which added considerably to the challenge (and time) that a kit with a cast boiler such as the 9F neatly side-steps... although the 9F made up for it in many other ways! There are lots of skills to be acquired over a modelling life time, and for me, that is part of the enjoyment.

 

I would fully expect a similar loco now to take significantly less time overall - though how much actual modelling time I have spent on just these two models, I could not begin to quantify. I'm happy for it to take as long as it takes, so long as I end up with something I'm really happy with.

 

Jerry has kindly plugged my Jubilee videos. They constitute "slow television", and I deliberately set out to show the whole construction in as near real time as I could - warts and all. The entire series is a mind-numbing 30 hours long. Some of the repetitive tasks are missing from the video, but that is compensated for by the fact that filming slowed some other aspects down quite a bit. I reckon 35 hours is fair measure of the fastest I could currently build that kind of replacement chassis with valve gear. Those 30 hours were spread over 6 months, however. Editing the video and recording narration accounted for very many more hours. Though the PECO body still stands up well, there is still some detailing work I would like to do to it. Then there's the painting - another skill to be mastered, and something I still find stressful as the previous decade's work has the potential to be hideously ruined! I found out just how quickly I could paint and simply weather a model when I was getting the 9F ready to appear on the magnificent Fence Houses at York this Easter... the paint wasn't quite dry, and I can see from Ian Smeeton's photo that a fair bit of it is now rubbing off round the extremities.

 

I've attached below a few cruel close-ups of the Princess to prove that it does own a smokebox door (it got left at home when I took the loco to the meeting yesterday!). It will be finished as 46210 Lady Patricia, as running circa 1950 in blue. Just a couple more details to add (including the injectors and associated pipework under the cab) before painting. This one is set permanently in forward gear.

 

 

 

 

Finally, here is a "train in the landscape" shot of the 9F crossing Victoria Viaduct just before closing time on Easter Monday, pulling a rake of coal hoppers built by Chris Mills. Believe it or not, York was the first time one of my locos has run on a layout and pulled a train successfully... Seeing it still going strong at the end of 3 days was worth every minute of the extended gestation period.

 

Thanks for showing these and explaining about them, Nick,

 

Wonderful!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Seeing that wonderful 2mm FS 'Princess Royal' built by Nick Mitchell, I was reminded of the work of another Nick; Nick Dunhill. 

 

He works in 7mm scale, and he built this trio of 'Prinnies' some little time ago. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think these are among the finest model locomotives I've ever had the privilege of photographing. 

 

I saw all but one of the class as a trainspotter, missing out on the one which Nick Mitchell is building, 46210 LADY PATRICIA. 

 

They were WCML thoroughbreds, if eclipsed by the more-powerful Semis in some respect. I thought they were an elegant big loco indeed. 

 

 

Here's one in EM Gauge, I would think built by Mike Edge, heading south from Carlisle. 

 

Though this thread tends to concentrate on ECML big stuff, it's nice to feature the type of locos I actually saw much more frequently. 

 

Anyone else out there got pictures of ex-LMS big stuff? I'll see if I can find some more.......................

[Michael Edge]

Yes, that one's mine, here are most of the others on Carlisle.

 

46206 and 46207 are K's kits by unknown builders, the others are mine from our etches, painted by Graham Varley, weathering on 46208 by Barry Oliver. We also have 46204 and 46209 but I can't find photos of these.