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Tony Wright

Wright writes.....

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1 minute ago, richard i said:

I see your j25 and raise you either a j6 or a j11. 

Richard

Surely a Wainwright 'C' in full Chatham regalia trumps the lot! 

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8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Surely a Wainwright 'C' in full Chatham regalia trumps the lot! 

 

OK, I’ll play my joker to beat your trump...  Oliver Bulleid’s Q1, I suggest!

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11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Surely a Wainwright 'C' in full Chatham regalia trumps the lot! 

 

But the ace of the trumps was a Kirtley 700 class as rebuilt by Johnson but still with a round topped firebox.

 

Dave

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I propose the healthy option, the LNWR Cauliflowers, simple, elegant yet rugged in LNWR livery - and one of your five a day. 

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2 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

But the ace of the trumps was a Kirtley 700 class as rebuilt by Johnson but still with a round topped firebox.

 

Dave

 

That would have been my choice. One, or more likely a pair, are very high on my build list for Bath.

 

Jerry

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50 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

OK, I’ll play my joker to beat your trump...  Oliver Bulleid’s Q1, I suggest!

Of course. The Q1 goes without saying......

 

Interesting that people find small 0-6-0's designed as pure workhorses "attractive" - I do too. I like the look of the J6 and J11, but they are "chunkier" than the J25. No votes for a J15?

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

You make a good point, Rob.

 

However, I don't think I implied that one cannot be a railway modeller if one can't solder, or struggle with soldering. It's just that without mastering the 'black art', how does one........................

 

Successfully wire-up a layout, including all track feeds, sections, control for points and signals, and all switches?

 

Successfully build track, even where a lot of the base components are made of plastic? (Can one glue a point vee together?). 

 

Successfully build an etched brass nickel silver/brass/white metal kit for a loco, carriage, wagon, signal or any engineering feature? 

 

I think what you do with your pictures is interesting (and very clever) but the process is as much-removed from railway modelling to me as is my ever employing DCC (to use which, surely one must be able to solder; unless someone else does all the work!). If you derive pleasure from it (as a form of railway modelling?), then nobody has the right to deny you (or anyone else) the right to do it. However, apart from in the 'visual' sense, your pictures don't have to 'work'. 

 

When I take model railway pictures, I try to make the finished shot look as realistic as possible. It requires realistic (and very well-made) models, of course, but, apart from taking out any background clutter, I employ no 'false' manipulation, such as fake smoke and fake weathering. I honestly, personally don't see the point. For one, it must be very time-consuming; time in which I could be soldering something together!

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

I do fully agree with your soldering comments, the thought of soldering up hand built turnout points scare the daylights out of me.

 

At present I have 14 points to solder with another 15 still to be built once phase two and three of my Haymarket layout are completed, and to do this all I need is an additional 10 feet in length more space to accommodate the five additional baseboards.

 

Regards

 

David

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15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Why do folk fight shy of soldering? If any discipline needs be mastered in our craft hobby, it must be soldering. If you can't solder (the generic 'you') then you're going to struggle as a railway modeller.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 


I think one of the biggest things that makes people shy away is because of all the different types of solder/ing that exist, as well as the associated temperature variants, it makes people rather nervous about the whole prospect of soldering. In reality it's just a slightly more elaborate form of gluing, with the only difference being you have to 'mix' the glue to create the bond. Having access to the right tools is also a major plus in this area.

Clinics at shows teaching soldering techniques are an excellent way for people to learn in a forgiving environment, and to share tips and help each-other out. The main shows here in Sydney typically include a few clinics within a little area with tables set up, including a soldering clinic, which is a great way to learn tricks. Bringing your own item is encouraged, though there's generally a few items around to learn with. And as an all day stand in the middle of the show there's no limit on time.

Also, a bit of personal advice: When you're a redhead, don't accidentally burn your hair with a silver soldering torch. The jokes get old quickly....

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It is rather ironic that there are as many, if not more, adhesives for particular applications, as there are solders for different uses. Equally, the same basic preparation rules apply, cleanliness, good fit of parts, appropriate glue/solder, etc. if you want to achieve a robust and neat joint. In both cases, usually the thinner the layer of adhesive or solder, the stronger the joint.

 

Adhesives often come with more comprehensive instruction sheets, perhaps that's why some people prefer to use them.

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12 minutes ago, 69843 said:


I think one of the biggest things that makes people shy away is because of all the different types of solder/ing that exist, as well as the associated temperature variants, it makes people rather nervous about the whole prospect of soldering.

 

It is true that there are plenty of solders for different applications, and I probably have the majority of them.

 

Nonetheless, I find that 90% of the soldering that I do uses good old electrician's resin cored solder. Not because that is the 'correct' solder to use, but because it is nearest to hand and works.

 

I even use it for soldering whitemetal if I am in a lazy and optimistic mood !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Now here are a couple of thoughts for Tony...

 

How about using a hot glue gun, is that close to soldering?

Years ago , I remember reading an article in one of the mags - was it MRC? A loco kit was assemble, wait for it........using Plastic Padding! (For those who don't know it, a 2 part filler much used on cars back in the 60s & 70s, it may still be available).

 

Stewart  :jester:

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Two illustrations why I consider soldering to be essential for construction, and also my (limited) use of glue.

 

1214006320_DJHSemi12.jpg.feabefb91476f7a36ad91c2fa5dbe301.jpg

 

1475014145_DJHSemi13.jpg.c4c8694e7ee2888202fd3be2ef453739.jpg

 

DJH supply plugged double chimneys. They must be opened out.

 

I soldered the chimney on to this Semi's smokebox from the inside, drilled a pilot hole with a pin chuck, then opened out the orifices to the required diameter, in stages, using a drill held in a tap wrench (so much easier to control) then a tapered broach. Believe me, had I just glued the chimney on (even with epoxy), it would have sheared off with this treatment. I know - a sadder, but wiser, man! 

 

On the other hand, the small outside steampipes are just superglued in place. They carry no load, and when the deflectors are fitted, they're all but invisible. 

 

I'm just about to solder on the double chimney of a DJH A1. 

 

 

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My E1 class has acquired some brakes:

 

e1class.jpg.a9c33c99832bb6a8c6d09aeab551fba5.jpg

 

These were obtained from the Mainly Trains etch for Southern brake gear but to be honest I'm sure any old etch would have done, as the ones I ended up selecting were

supposedly  LBSC tender brake shoes, which seemed the closest match to the size and shape required. They're representative rather than accurate, but better than no brake shoes at all.

 

At Railwells I obtained (along with David Maidment's book on Maunsell 4-4-0s) some nice brass bits for SE&CR style clack valves so the rest of the pipework will be attended to shortly. That rear cab step needs some careful filling and filing to blend in with the curve of the footplate, too.

 

There's not much here that isn't soldered. The handrails are glued in, which is my preference, and the smokebox is also glued, but everything else apart from the pickup pads, tender bearings, and the loco-tender coupling is soldered. I use the same Carr's green label flux for both normal (145) and low-melt solder, and the same iron, adjusting between "6" and "4" on the temperature dial, and cleaning between applications. For the heavy brass parts of the chassis, I used a 70 W gas iron but this is the first kit that's required it. I've since discovered that the gas iron is brilliant for layout wiring because you don't have to lug the rest of the iron and power lead around.

 

However, in defense of adhesives, my first two locomotives had glued bodies, and nothing's ever come off them, nor is showing any signs of it! They probably took longer to assemble, but when handling them I can't feel any difference to the soldered ones.

 

Al

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Now here are a couple of thoughts for Tony...

 

How about using a hot glue gun, is that close to soldering?

Years ago , I remember reading an article in one of the mags - was it MRC? A loco kit was assemble, wait for it........using Plastic Padding! (For those who don't know it, a 2 part filler much used on cars back in the 60s & 70s, it may still be available).

 

Stewart  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_jester.gif

A hot glue gun?

 

Never used one.

 

Plastic Padding?

 

That makes more of a stink than flux fumes!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A hot glue gun?

 

Never used one.

 

I can’t think of a good use for one on locomotives (except, maybe, for securing ballast weights) but they are great for rapidly fixing scenic  formers - using cheap foam board the hot glue partially melts the core and then sticks hard to the card skins. 

Much less soggy than PVA...

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14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Why even try them, Clive? 

 

Show me a better method of joining etched brass/nickel silver/white metal components than solder (or screwing/bolting) and I'll consider it. 

 

Unlike you, I don't work in plastic (well, hardly ever), so to use adhesives for securing metal components is anathema to me. Rather like you 'soldering' bits of Plastikard together? 

 

Of course I use adhesives at times - fixing pick-up pads for instance, or securing small, non-load-bearing parts, but that's all. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.   

Hello Tony

 

Even gluing plastic kits can have its downside. In the past I have used my normal Revel Contacta solvent to put together a DC kits DMU. A few weeks later I went to do some more work on it as I picked it up, it fell apart.  I was back to stage one in the building process. They are made of a very strange plastic that needs a particular solvent.

 

I have in the past used a soldering iron to weld plastic together, repairing some broken toys and household items, not modelling. I had to be quick and I am not too sure the fumes where healthy.

 

You mention fixing pick up pads with adhesive, that is something I have had go ping more than once where the sticky stuff ain't sticky anymore. The next chassis I solder up I am going to use double sided PCB and solder the top side to the chassis.

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Hot glue gun; a number of uses including:

  • Laying wire in tube point control.
  • A small  blob  will hold pieces of wood together while PVA dries if screws are not needed or desired. Very useful if using odd shapes and angles. Can be weighted whilst drying and won't slip.
  • Fix mounting board card to wood for back scene purposes. 

These are the ones I can currently think of, I'm sure others can add to this list.

 

A vote for a J15 here.

 

Martyn

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7 minutes ago, MPR said:

I can’t think of a good use for one on locomotives (except, maybe, for securing ballast weights) but they are great for rapidly fixing scenic  formers - using cheap foam board the hot glue partially melts the core and then sticks hard to the card skins. 

Much less soggy than PVA...

 

Good for securing LEDS, wiring looms inside models, too. Also good for fixing foliage onto near-vertical slopes, as PVA doesn't have enough grab.

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29 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A hot glue gun?

 

Never used one.

 

Plastic Padding?

 

That makes more of a stink than flux fumes!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Disregarding the smell, Plastic Padding is very useful for fixing poorly fitting white metal components. I use a technique rather similar to bricklaying, thickly butter the edges of the part to be fitted and push it firmly into place. If the right amount has been applied the Plastic Padding will squeeze out all through and round the joint, now wait and watch carefully (and hope the phone doesn't ring!) until the PP has just started to go off but not completely hardened. At this point the excess can be easily and cleanly pared away with a scalpel, leaving a clean join with no gaps in it. If you leave it too long you're bu99ered though, hence the comment about the phone....

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49 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

Even gluing plastic kits can have its downside. In the past I have used my normal Revel Contacta solvent to put together a DC kits DMU. A few weeks later I went to do some more work on it as I picked it up, it fell apart.  I was back to stage one in the building process. They are made of a very strange plastic that needs a particular solvent.

 

I have in the past used a soldering iron to weld plastic together, repairing some broken toys and household items, not modelling. I had to be quick and I am not too sure the fumes where healthy.

 

You mention fixing pick up pads with adhesive, that is something I have had go ping more than once where the sticky stuff ain't sticky anymore. The next chassis I solder up I am going to use double sided PCB and solder the top side to the chassis.

'You mention fixing pick up pads with adhesive, that is something I have had go ping more than once where the sticky stuff ain't sticky anymore.'

 

Thanks Clive,

 

The 'trick' with gluing pick-up pads is two part in my experience..............

 

1. Always roughen-up the brass support beforehand with a coarse file.

2. Use 'verro-board' for the pick-up pads, not just plain PCB. The verro-board is laid in thin copper strips, with masses of little holes in it. When adhesive (epoxy) is applied, it squeezes up into these holes, making the bond immensely strong. I've never had one come loose.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

...a DC kits DMU.  ...... They are made of a very strange plastic that needs a particular solvent.

 

ABS plastic, the same as the original Plastruct - use Plastic Weld solvent.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Tony is completely right as well as Wright, soldering is an essential skill to acquire.  Unfortunately mine is flaky at best; my 40w iron seems reluctant to melt the solder whatever solder I use.  I can make a soldered joint for wiring purposes, and am happy to use it on seams inside Comet coaches, but it needs in my case to be kept away from anywhere it can be seen, so I use glue as well and sometimes in situations where Tony's eyes would rolling at some considerable rpm.  

 

I use liquid poly cement on Parkside kits, liberally applied with a brush and allowed to penetrate seams which it seems willing. enough to do.  Most of the rest, including metals, is superglue and here I use 2 basic types.  Any joint that is going to have to be load bearing or subject to movement is glued with good quality thick gloopy superglue, and I also use pound shop superglue to secure things in place temporarily.  The joint can be broken easily enough when a permanent solution, good superglue or solder, is needed.  

 

There is another application where superglue is completely unsuitable; fixing glazing, because it fogs the glazing.  There is a limit to how much I want to evoke the atmosphere of a rainy day by having my coach windows all misted up!  Here I find the best thing is 'Glue 'n Glaze' or similar.  This is supposed to be used to glaze small windows such as loco spectacle plate windows, and is very effective for that, but it can also be used as a normal glue,  I have successfully glazed Comet brass, RTR plastic, and K's whitemetal coaches with it, and it has the advantage that it dries clear so if you get a tiny bit where you shouldn't you usually get away with it!

 

I suggest that Tony goes and has a lie down in a dark room to recover from the horror of considering all this bodgery.  My skill level is that I can just about manage a Comet coach or a fold up loco chassis.  I deal with electrical connections (except to track) with crimp/spade connectors assisted with solder and terminal screw blocks.  In view of past wiring disasters, I've kept matters as simple as possible on Cwmdimbath and use insulfrog turnouts; the less connections there are the less chance there is for things to break down, and my running is pretty reliable (but you have to be meticulous in track laying, especially near turnouts), but I'm about to mess all that up with Dapol working signals and some platform lighting...

 

I have to work within the constraints of my abilities, and while there is much to be said for extending those abilities and trying to learn new techniques, I cannot afford expensive mistakes and my eyesight and steadiness of hand are not what they wunce woz and will only deteriorate over time until I am withdrawn from service and scrapped; there will be no spare parts worth saving.

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7 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

For those starting with soldering, of which I am still one, it does become easier to work with and has overtaken plastic for manyv builds for me for ease of use.

 

I think the biggest thing I found when learning to solder models was that buying good solder is essential and that Maplin electrical solder is just really hard (impossible) to use for soldering etched brass.

Liquid, acid flux dabbed on also makes soldering so much easier.

 

I guess the other thing is that you have to get used to holding something hot, and relying on tweezers, jigs and things to hold the parts. You also gradually develop Tony’s disregard to uncomfortably hot finger ends.

Once you overcome that, make a few kits, soldering becomes easier than gluing for many parts. Lamp irons, brake hangers and other really small parts are so much more solid and fix so much better. I have also found making brass bodies for bought powered chassis is a good way to go as you don’t have to make something that works, but just something that looks good and sits on the moving parts. I like making DMUs so that was a good option, the unpowered units are just coaches with a cab on them.

 

I am sure others can make recommendations on kits to start with, don’t do signals, they sound like an easy option but are really fiddly. I did a coach (Comet kit) rather than a loco, still trying to finish my first loco. Making odd detail parts was also a start before the coach, front bogies for some steam engines. My soldering has improved a lot, but still has a long way to go. I am still frightened by soldering motion, but am sure it will come.

 

First steps, bogie on the right.

https://www.jamielochhead.co.uk/jpegs/Trains/9FTruck12.jpg

 

First full kit, still, being finished right now, but was a big step. Should be finished by the end of the week.

https://www.jamielochhead.co.uk/jpegs/Trains/Saloon09.jpg

 

Brass uppers, and frames on the unpowered units.

https://www.jamielochhead.co.uk/jpegs/Trains/Class120_34.jpg

 

Being ambitious, but I am sure it will get there.

https://www.jamielochhead.co.uk/jpegs/Trains/Black5_34.jpg

 

The other thing is watch one of Tony’s videos and follow what he says and also if you make a mistake you can always heat it up and start again much more easily than with plastic and weld/glue.
 

Jamie

This is splendid stuff, Jamie,

 

Many thanks for showing us (though, just one thing, 9Fs - or eight and a half Fs in the case of the Crostis - have ponies, not bogies). The difference between the one on the left, still with that ghastly pocket, and the proper one is incredible. Even though some folk remove the even-more-ghastly coupling, they still leave that obese (and very prominent) pocket visible below the 'beam. Who makes the replacement, please?

 

Regarding my DVDs/videos, when they were finally put together, a large number of disclaiming sub-titles had to be added, because of my disregard for 'elf-'n'-safety'. Nothing holds tiny (or larger) parts more securely than fingers and thumb for soldering. I've just developed asbestos fingers, and bear the pain! At least, should I consider a future career in breaking the law, I'll leave no fingerprints. 

 

This hobby is inherently dangerous. We use things which get very hot, will cut, choke anyone with fumes from flux or solvents, and poison folk if ingested. So, if one can't stand pain, can't stand the sight of blood, has bad lungs (which might have been fine to start with) or a sensitive stomach, I suggest another pastime.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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