Wright writes.....

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The problem with a slower shutter speed is that the 'failure rate' with the panning shots is enormous (good job they're not taken on film!), with very few of the images sharp enough to use.

 

I'll keep on experimenting.

 

Try a burst of "fill in" synced to the second curtain  (Crank that CT60 right down). Might work for you.

 

It worked for me 30 years ago and no second curtain sync. then.

 

 

P

Edited August 26, 2019 by Porcy Mane

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Not just you Tony, these things are not very well designed. To start with the fixing holes are not the same distance from the operating wire on each side when they could (and should) easily have been. The next fault was the way the coils are fitted by melting over some plastic in a countersunk hole, recent production has been better in this respect but most of mine have had wire or cable ties wrapped round to prevent the coils falling off. The switch can be unreliable in some atmospheric conditions but is easily cured with electrolube on the contacts. The over centre spring just about works but doesn't hold point blades closed with any certainty.

The final killer is the way the coil wires are soldered to the contact strip - they are normally stretched out tight along the plate and soldered on and with repeated expansion and contraction they eventually break. The break is almost always just where you can't get at it to solder another wire on, if only a little slack had been allowed here this wouldn't happen.

I do still have a lot on Herculaneum Dock and have used them elsewhere but the ancient H&M ones are much more reliable.

Another problem is that if you use the built-in switches, the contacts are too far apart to make reliably if you have finer-scale gaps at the blades.

[Clem]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've been doing a little more experimental photography this evening, regarding panning. 

Hi Tony. I'd be interested in knowing what shutter speed are you using? Looking at the blurred background, I think you've capture the speed but one of the things that always fascinated me when I watched the pacifics, V2s and 60700 through Newark in the late 50s and early 60s was the blurred rods especially around the big end as they tore past. Might be worth experimenting with a longer time lapse to see if you can get that. Of course, it makes it so much harder to get a crisp shot of the rest of the loco and train. If engines on my layout exceeded a scale 40mph the crew would get a nose bleed.... (that'd be me). But that's just the nature of a hard working secondary line.

[cctransuk]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's a Hornby model, John,

 

With the white stripe (denoting the end door) at the wrong end. 

 

It's vacuum-fitted, so is at the front of the train (with one other vacuum-fitted wagon). The other 45 in the train are unfitted.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I think that I am correct in saying; (Paul B. will correct me if necessary); that the Hornby (ex-Airfix) 21T rivetted mineral open purports to represent a prototype of which none were either vacuum-fitted or piped.

 

To many of us, such anomolies 'grate' just as much as missing lamps or leaning return cranks do with you; it grabbed my attention immediately.

 

Each to their own, though.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Teague]

Tony

As you know I do quite a lot of current steam charter photography and I regularly fail to get good panning shots, however, others are more successful, see:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60850020@N04/16611718380/in/album-72157650901992810/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60850020@N04/26245261460/in/album-72157665333892134/

 

These two by Ron Hope show the camera set-up just below the picture - whether or not this will help with 4mm I have no idea!

 

Tony

[Clem]

41 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

To many of us, such anomolies 'grate' just as much as missing lamps or leaning return cranks do with you; it grabbed my attention immediately.

Hi John. That is true for me too. The big problem is when you're unaware of the anomaly and then post build, you find out. Left with a 'do I ignore it?' , 'do I modify it? is it possible?' or 'do I scrap it/sell it to someone less discerning?' conundrum.

 

... Any one want any elongated Bachmann BR cattle vans - can't be bothered with a cut and shut for these.... And then the question.. 'why produce something so good and detailed and accurate in most respects but yet get one of the basic dimensions completely wrong?'

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Hi Tony. I'd be interested in knowing what shutter speed are you using? Looking at the blurred background, I think you've capture the speed but one of the things that always fascinated me when I watched the pacifics, V2s and 60700 through Newark in the late 50s and early 60s was the blurred rods especially around the big end as they tore past. Might be worth experimenting with a longer time lapse to see if you can get that. Of course, it makes it so much harder to get a crisp shot of the rest of the loco and train. If engines on my layout exceeded a scale 40mph the crew would get a nose bleed.... (that'd be me). But that's just the nature of a hard working secondary line.

Good morning Clem,

 

Typically, the shutter speed is about a 60th of a second, with the locos doing around a scale 100 mph. The ASA is set at 400, with the aperture wide open to limit the depth of field (the subject being side-on).

 

It's just a matter of luck, setting the D3 on burst mode, auto-focus and hoping for success!

 

I'll try some more shots.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

I think that I am correct in saying; (Paul B. will correct me if necessary); that the Hornby (ex-Airfix) 21T rivetted mineral open purports to represent a prototype of which none were either vacuum-fitted or piped.

 

To many of us, such anomolies 'grate' just as much as missing lamps or leaning return cranks do with you; it grabbed my attention immediately.

 

Each to their own, though.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Ignorance was bliss, John,

 

A defence? It's probably not mine, and will be removed from the train later today.

 

Then it'll be repainted into grey (with the stripe at the right end), weathered and it'll be returned to a rake where the loco will be made by me, with return cranks facing the right way and carrying the correct lamps.

 

I'll then take a picture.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

15 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

 

What's the provenance; (model and prototype); of the LWB mineral behind the 9F, please? (Does it have a vac. / through pipe )?

 

Obviously, the loco has lamps - one would expect no other !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Well spotted John,

 

It is Hornby's (ex Airfix/Dapol) attempt at a Felix Pole 20 tonner which quite a few ex PO wagons came into BRs ownership. As far as I am aware, looking at David Larkin's The Acquired Wagons Of British Railways Volume 2 none were ever vacuum fitted and should be in grey (and rust) livery with black patches behind the lettering. A few ex GWR wagons were built for loco coal and could have been painted all black with yellow lettering during the 1950s, those still in service past 1960 had mainly been repainted to grey, with or without LOCO painted on the center panel.

 

There was series of 21ton minerals built by BR which were vacuum fitted from new, these were not built until 1962-3 and had welded bodies and top doors giving them a different appearance. Paul Bartlett as usual has a very good collection of photos of these wagons.

 

 

Edit , written while Tony was posting the above.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[Clem]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Clem,

 

Typically, the shutter speed is about a 60th of a second, with the locos doing around a scale 100 mph. The ASA is set at 400, with the aperture wide open to limit the depth of field (the subject being side-on).

 

It's just a matter of luck, setting the D3 on burst mode, auto-focus and hoping for success!

 

I'll try some more shots.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

When I used to try this with the real thing (on preserved lines) I'd be down to 1/15th sec. As you said above, huge failure rate but worth trying. You may get the blurring of the rods at that setting and in my opinion that gives a look of real speed.

[4069]

As shown by those two lovely prototype examples, it's worth cropping the picture and adjusting it so that the line the train is running on is absolutely horizontal.

[4630]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Clem,

 

Typically, the shutter speed is about a 60th of a second, with the locos doing around a scale 100 mph. The ASA is set at 400, with the aperture wide open to limit the depth of field (the subject being side-on).

 

It's just a matter of luck, setting the D3 on burst mode, auto-focus and hoping for success!

 

I'll try some more shots.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I think I’d also be tempted to try using manual focus in your experiments too rather than, in this case, relying on the camera’s auto-focus.  Pro-spec. camera though it is.    

 

Apologies in advance if you’ve already tried this in your earlier experiments. 

 

Using ‘Live View’ on your D3, set a manual focus point on a static locomotive to start with so that you can be sure that, where your camera is positioned, your image sharpness and depth of field is as you want, before then trying your panning shots at whatever shutter speed and aperture you’ve dialled in.

 

As you said earlier, just as well you’re not using film.  The only ‘cost’ is the time taken, but then again it’s all part of a learning experience which should be a reward in itself.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by 4630

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Clem,

 

Typically, the shutter speed is about a 60th of a second, with the locos doing around a scale 100 mph. The ASA is set at 400, with the aperture wide open to limit the depth of field (the subject being side-on).

 

It's just a matter of luck, setting the D3 on burst mode, auto-focus and hoping for success!

 

I'll try some more shots.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

How about cheating, by running the loco at a high voltage so that the wheels spin, while having an assistant hold the train back so that it actually only moves just fast enough to get the panning effect?

[Retro_man]

16 hours ago, Theakerr said:

What are the best paints to match Brunswick Green?  This fall one of my projects is to paint my DJH A2, but i live in the Great White North (Canada).  As a consequence I do not have access to the full range of paints you have over there and thanks to 911 it is almost impossible to get a UK company to ship paint to Canada.   I do have some Humbrol #3 enamel gloss, but it is probably 25 years old.  Assuming I can resurrect does anyone have any thoughts on its authenticity?  A crosscheck on a cart from Model Railway Hobbyist suggests that Tamiya X05 Green and Vallejo Deep Green 115636 are matches  I know that both Tamiya and Vallejo are available in the UK, so again the same question are there any thoughts on how close it is?  A web search suggests Railmatch RM1300 and Floquil Brunswick Green F110034  match.  It is almost certain I can get both the Tamiya and Vallejo although I dont like the Vallejo paints.  I might be able to get the Railmatch RM1300 but the web colour chart doesn't look much like the Brunswick Green in BR pictures and it appears to only be available in spray cans and I am pretty certain that Floquil is no longer available.  Again any thoughts.  Finally, regardless of my location, what paint is considered the best match fro BR Brunswick Green because as a longshot I might be able to get someone to bring some back for me.

Thanks

 

Hi Jim,

 

If you fail to find a better alternative, I do have stocks of Humbrol No. 3 Brunswick Green Enamel and RC405 GWR/BR Green Acrylic.

http://www.modelrailwayimports.com/products.php?q=humbrol&s=1

 

Steve

Model Railway Imports

Canada

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, 4630 said:

 

I think I’d also be tempted to try using manual focus in your experiments too rather than, in this case, relying on the camera’s auto-focus.  Pro-spec. camera though it is.    

 

Apologies in advance if you’ve already tried this in your earlier experiments. 

 

Using ‘Live View’ on your D3, set a manual focus point on a static locomotive to start with so that you can be sure that, where your camera is positioned, your image sharpness and depth of field is as you want, before then trying your panning shots at whatever shutter speed and aperture you’ve dialled in.

 

As you said earlier, just as well you’re not using film.  The only ‘cost’ is the time taken, but then again it’s all part of a learning experience which should be a reward in itself.

 

 

I've tried all the things you suggest, and a few more experiments this morning.

 

I think that I've come to the conclusion that it's best to increase the speed of the trains (in some cases to near 150+ mph in scale!), leaving the ASA, shutter speed and aperture as they are.

 

These are the results..................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think these are more-effective than yesterday's shots (more rod-blurring), but it's almost (if not definitely) impossible to get the loco (particularly the numbers) pin-sharp. To get these six images, I fired the shutter over 70 times!

 

Most came out like this below!

 

 

As has been mentioned, it's just as well I wasn't using film.

 

Locos with smaller driving wheels increase the effect, of course. Oh, and that rogue wagon has now been removed from the train.

 

One thing which has pleased me is that, even at much higher speeds than normal (particularly through the fiddle yard), nothing has derailed. I just left each train circling at high speed (even the goods), waiting for them to 'pose' for the camera. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[richard i]

The last “good one “ seems the best to me.  Most rod blurring?

Whilst the failure one at the end feels like an earthquake hit as the photo was taken. It does show the fine line between success and a near miss. I for one am enjoying these shots, thanks for the time taken with them. 

Richard

[Evertonian]

The late Michael Mensing produced some superb panning shots, take a look at the four "Castle" pics in "Steam in Action - Castles" by Laurence

Waters. Stating the obvious Tony, but the biggest drawback to obtaining the elusive speed and movement element you are seeking is the lack

of any exhaust or leaking steam. Hang on a mo, why am I offering my thoughts to a very experienced photographer with yours truly a total duffer with  a 

camera? 

 

I realise that photoshopping in any "effects" is a no go for you,  but perhaps a little experimentation one day?

 

Chris Knight

[Clem]

Great effort, Tony. I think you're getting there. Talking of Michael Mensing here's the one of 6006 approaching Solihull. Doesn't need rod blur on this - the steam and smoke does the job!

 

[Dave Hunt]

If I may, I'd like to add my two pennorth on the subject of BR locomotive green. It is mainly from material I have received from Bob Meanley who is the Chief Engineer of Tyseley Locomotive Works and Vintage Trains, and has much experience of restoring real locomotives, for which amongst other things he undertook a great deal of painstaking research into the colours and finishes required. Bob has co-operated with and assisted me with the production of the LMS Locomotive Profiles series published by Wild Swan as well as other titles and I have used the fruits of that research when writing about BR green liveries in those books. Briefly put, the story is as follows:

 

The livery referred to is correctly called BR standard green, though the colour was not wholly consistent and there were subtly different shades used. Despite often being referred to as 'Brunswick Green' it was not, in fact, that colour, The colour used at first was actually the post-war GWR locomotive middle chrome green and although the lining was referred to in some official documents as 'black and yellow' the latter was actually chrome orange. In 1956, the main colour darkened a little to a shade approximating to deep bronze green.  This change was brought about by research into longer-lasting finishes that led to a green being formulated from the newly-developed monastral blue mixed with a new yellow pigment marketed by ICI. Whilst many enthusiasts have referred to both this and the GWR green as ‘Brunswick green’, neither had the same bluish hue as genuine Brunswick green and the nomenclature appears to be something of a myth fostered by the modelling press of the 1950s. Certainly the new shade would have appeared a little darker if held next to the earlier GWR colour but this would probably not have been so apparent in service as even the later green changed with exposure to sunlight and sulphur salts, so freshly painted engines probably always looked slightly darker than those more than a few months on the road. Added to that, BR paint specifications of the time only stipulated that supplies should be 'a near match' to samples, so variations were no doubt seen in what was supposedly the same colour anyway.

 

I hope that the above is helpful rather than muddying the waters.

 

Dave

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Great effort, Tony. I think you're getting there. Talking of Michael Mensing here's the one of 6006 approaching Solihull. Doesn't need rod blur on this - the steam and smoke does the job!

 

 

 

Far too tempting not t have a go!

 

 

Early BR condition so single chimney and no roof vents. I really must add some of the gubbins under the cab, and I suspect there wouldn't be any daylight between

the wheels, as here. The body also needs to be packed up a bit at the cab end.

 

This was hand-held with shutter priority at 1/50th.

 

Al

[Barry Ten]

...and the less said about that loco-tender gap, the better...

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Evertonian said:

The late Michael Mensing produced some superb panning shots, take a look at the four "Castle" pics in "Steam in Action - Castles" by Laurence

Waters. Stating the obvious Tony, but the biggest drawback to obtaining the elusive speed and movement element you are seeking is the lack

of any exhaust or leaking steam. Hang on a mo, why am I offering my thoughts to a very experienced photographer with yours truly a total duffer with  a 

camera? 

 

I realise that photoshopping in any "effects" is a no go for you,  but perhaps a little experimentation one day?

 

Chris Knight

Chris,

 

The guy/girl who thinks he/she knows 'everything' and can learn nothing from a 'total duffer' is not only an idiot and a chump, but a total duffer as well! 

 

As you know, I find the added smoke-effects on model railway pictures abhorrent. In my view, they add nothing to the images, and are completely artificial. In the same way that 'model' smoke never scales, digital smoke never does, either. 

 

That said (and I invite criticism, because there's much to criticise), I've added 'smoke/steam' to three of the pictures posted earlier.

 

 

 

 

I don't think any of these 'work'. Not just because I'm prejudiced, but I don't think I have the necessary Photoshop skills to make them 'work'. Not only that, I've no wish to acquire them! 

 

Though my photography is now exclusively-digital, I think I'm still happily old-fashioned. I get my depth of field optically, I'm never convinced by stacking and I cannot get on with small cameras. I'm also tired of the old excuses like 'lens distortion' when locos and stock come out like bananas when photographed. It's because they are banana-shaped! 

 

If the likes of Andy York sees these latest panning efforts, and he wishes to add/smoke/steam effects (or anyone else), I won't mind in the slightest.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

 

Far too tempting not t have a go!

 

 

Early BR condition so single chimney and no roof vents. I really must add some of the gubbins under the cab, and I suspect there wouldn't be any daylight between

the wheels, as here. The body also needs to be packed up a bit at the cab end.

 

This was hand-held with shutter priority at 1/50th.

 

Al

Great shot, Al,

 

How fast (in scale) was the loco going? I've had to crank mine right up to get the blurred-rods effect.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Great effort, Tony. I think you're getting there. Talking of Michael Mensing here's the one of 6006 approaching Solihull. Doesn't need rod blur on this - the steam and smoke does the job!

 

Good afternoon Clem,

 

The late Michael Mensing was great at panning (as was Colin Walker).

 

I wonder how fast the 'King' in the picture was actually travelling? Certainly nowhere near 150 mph (which is the scale speed I need to get the blurred effects).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Great shot, Al,

 

How fast (in scale) was the loco going? I've had to crank mine right up to get the blurred-rods effect.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Nowhere close to  a scale ton, Tony - I'd estimate no more than 75 mph but I'll do some tests later. My King isn't particularly speedy.