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Tony Wright

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3 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

 

Fully agree Steve. I do think all this doom and gloom about the number of modellers who still make stuff is overblown. Go back to magazines of the 60s, 70s and 80s and they are full of layouts that were largely RTR, and not very good at that. The stuff we remember from earlier times is the good stuff, the rubbish is quietly forgotten. Its like those who argue that music from a particular period was much better than it is now - watch one of those old reruns of TOTP on BBC4 or Youtube and it soon becomes clear that no decade had a monopoly on rubbish!

 

I also fully agree about your point regarding 3D printing - its just another tool in the armory (albeit my inability to drive a computer means I'm reliant on others)  and should be used to complement other techniques, not replace them. Steve's 3D loco bodies will still require detailing and a chassis built using many more traditional techniques.

 

My recently completed Midland shed group for Bath is very much ‘old school’ utilising paper, card, ply, plastic sheet, PCB track etc. However, the water tank with its repetitive pattern of flanged, rivetted, fielded panels is a perfect example of where 3D printing comes into its own, offering a crisp, consistent finish which is far better than I could have achieved with more familiar methods. Steve did a fabulous job for me and Ive recently asked him if he could print me some 2mm tender axleboxes after the multi part etched ones defeated me!

 

The hobby has definitely changed over the years but I'm not convinced its any less creative - just different.

 

Jerry

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/1071990773_20190903_213956(2).jpg.514539597fc52171f1ecd667360a3511.jpghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/20190301_215458.jpg.65fe00c97c0d55963c20e612e75842d3.jpg

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/IMG_9854.JPG.b18fb435f10f3e217812992e7fe88e53.JPG

 

 

'Go back to magazines of the 60s, 70s and 80s and they are full of layouts that were largely RTR, and not very good at that.'

 

Very true, Jerry.

 

However, they tended to be in the Proprietary Modeller section of the mags, and, in my memory, were in a minority. Unlike today. 

 

Great 2mm modelling, by the way! Thanks for showing us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Chamby said:

3D printing is an interesting one, because it is based on a skill set and equipment that is totally different to the hobby’s traditional kit building skills.  The making takes place on a computer screen and a 3D printer, you don’t need brass or solder or reamers....  the physical tasks involve moving a mouse, pressing keys and spooling filaments onto the printer!  In time, this will become much more common, as it is more attuned to the skills used by younger generations in their workplace.

 

Designing a locomotive body or water tank on a computer for 3D printing is more akin to kit designing, in my mind.  With a few keystrokes, the kit then assembles itself inside the 3D printer.  The labours of the designer can be easily passed on to others over the Internet, who can then print exactly the same thing off on their own printer at home, without having to design it themselves.

 

As the technology develops, in time it will provide an alternative to kit built chassis too.  The RAF can now print off jet fighter components in a field tent, so working components for us are surely not too far off.

 

Is all of this modelling?  Yes... but we must accept that what we associate as the traditional skills will not necessarily be needed any more!  Many trades have succumbed to monumental change through technology... look at photography for example.  I sold my enlarger and darkroom equipment years ago, and haven’t looked back!

 'I sold my enlarger and darkroom equipment years ago,'

 

I gave mine away, Phil!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Doesn't this thread shift along?

 

I've just completed the body of the 'new' K3 I'm 'making'.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I bought the original of Geoff West after he'd bought it of ebay. It was an old Wills K3, but on a new SE Finecast K3 chassis. I don't normally buy locos built by others, but in this case, why not?

 

745583469_K3rebuild04.jpg.665157872bb92c8ab2417655817e29a3.jpg

 

1137166619_K3rebuild05.jpg.907ccc5a2c25edd4749e1a831672bb35.jpg

 

It does run really well, and the new body really makes it into a K3. I'll paint this one, and try and match Geoff's subtle weathering (on the tender).

 

Even at a good price, all told it's probably still come out more than a Bachmann equivalent, so why? Well, the drivers are the right size, it's got front steps and it pulls a lot more. Enough reasons?

 

 

Edited by Tony Wright
to clarify a point
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Following an inspiring chat with Tony at the 2018 Glasgow show I then spent an hour and a half trawling through the vendors stands trying to find a brass wagon kit as I was dead keen to give soldering a try.  Couldn't find a single one! nor any loco or coach kits and this, remember, is Scotlands biggest and most prestigious show.   Now. Is this because there's no appetite in the community to build metal kits or are modellers not building metal kits because the vendors won't sell them?   In the end I bought some plastic wagon kits; not as satisfying but they'll fill a hole.  

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19 minutes ago, jacko said:

Following an inspiring chat with Tony at the 2018 Glasgow show I then spent an hour and a half trawling through the vendors stands trying to find a brass wagon kit as I was dead keen to give soldering a try.  Couldn't find a single one! nor any loco or coach kits and this, remember, is Scotlands biggest and most prestigious show.   Now. Is this because there's no appetite in the community to build metal kits or are modellers not building metal kits because the vendors won't sell them?   In the end I bought some plastic wagon kits; not as satisfying but they'll fill a hole.  

Taking Bill Bedford and his Mousa Models range as an example .... I fear the latter! His earlier kits were mainly etched brass and a lot of fun to build - but he appears to be phasing these out in favour of resin and 3d printing. The chassis is still brass ... but the rest you don't even glue together.

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I then spent an hour and a half trawling through the vendors stands trying to find a brass wagon kit...

 

They are out there but they're not common, I suspect mainly because plastic ones are so cheap and most people think wagons are unimportant.

 

It depends what and where you model, but you won't find better than Ian MacDonald's kits (MacGeordie of this parish).   Outstanding quality, superb instructions and interesting prototypes. 

 

Lochgorm Models do a starter wagon kit which makes an ex-LNER 12T van.  There are no castings with that.

 

You can find D & S, Connoisseur/PocketMoney and Jidenco/Falcon Brass kits on Ebay.  The first two are good, don't try a Jidenco as your first brass kit. 

 

I'm sure there are others but brass wagon kits have always been a relatively rare breed.

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Taking Bill Bedford and his Mousa Models range as an example .... I fear the latter!

 

Bill has said he wants to move away from etching, but there are plenty of others who still do it.  It's becoming easier to do, I think - I know of a couple of people (Nick Easton for one) who have done short runs of very esoteric wagons mainly for themselves.  There doesn't seem to be the mass demand, but it isn't completely dead.

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5 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I'm sure there are others but brass wagon kits have always been a relatively rare breed.

 

It's not the ideal medium for an open with sides 2.5" - 3" thick, or a van with outside framing. 

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6 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

 

 

You can find D & S, Connoisseur/PocketMoney and Jidenco/Falcon Brass kits on Ebay.  The first two are good, don't try a Jidenco as your first brass kit. 

 

 

and this is really the point I was making. Sure, there's plenty available online BUT why oh why can't they appear at shows so we can examine the merchandise and chat to the manufacturer (or whoever) about making the kits.

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Well, Jim McGeown does plenty of shows and will be very happy to talk to you, but he doens't do his 4mm range any more.Jidenco/Falcon have been out of business for  long time.

 

Ian MacDonald does do shows - he was at S4N - but you probably need to be at the specialist scale shows to see the sort of supplier you're looking for.  I can recommend them, but I'm not sure how many there are in Scotland.

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20 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It's not the ideal medium for an open with sides 2.5" - 3" thick, or a van with outside framing. 

There are still some white metal ones around ... which can be quite nice. 51L does a nice range.

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33 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

They are out there but they're not common, I suspect mainly because plastic ones are so cheap and most people think wagons are unimportant.

 

It depends what and where you model, but you won't find better than Ian MacDonald's kits (MacGeordie of this parish).   Outstanding quality, superb instructions and interesting prototypes. 

 

Lochgorm Models do a starter wagon kit which makes an ex-LNER 12T van.  There are no castings with that.

 

You can find D & S, Connoisseur/PocketMoney and Jidenco/Falcon Brass kits on Ebay.  The first two are good, don't try a Jidenco as your first brass kit. 

 

I'm sure there are others but brass wagon kits have always been a relatively rare breed.

'don't try a Jidenco as your first brass kit.' 

 

Sound advice, Jonathan.

 

Though I'd take it further - don't try Jidenco as your two hundredth brass kit!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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6 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

There are still some white metal ones around ... which can be quite nice. 51L does a nice range.

 

@Lecorbusier, I'm heavily into whitemetal right now; there's plenty around: 

Who knows? I might be building my own engines next...

 

(Probably need whitemetal engines to pull these whitemetal wagons.)

 

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13 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Well, Jim McGeown does plenty of shows and will be very happy to talk to you, but he doens't do his 4mm range any more.Jidenco/Falcon have been out of business for  long time.

 

Ian MacDonald does do shows - he was at S4N - but you probably need to be at the specialist scale shows to see the sort of supplier you're looking for.  I can recommend them, but I'm not sure how many there are in Scotland.

 

He has done short runs of the 4mm locomotives.

 

Maybe if demand is there he would consider reissuing the Pocket Money wagons. I did hear the moulds for the castings needed re-doing, but most should be available elsewhere.

 

http://www.jimmcgeown.com/4mm Scale 00 Gauge.html

 

 

 

Jason

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29 minutes ago, jacko said:

 

and this is really the point I was making. Sure, there's plenty available online BUT why oh why can't they appear at shows so we can examine the merchandise and chat to the manufacturer (or whoever) about making the kits.

I think the point is pure economics, Jacko,

 

It's just too expensive for the niche traders to take stands at some of the major shows. Glasgow's not unique. Try to buy metal loco/wagon/carriage kits at Ally Pally as well. 

 

Is it a chicken and egg situation? Not enough punters who actually make metal things to make it viable, or/or, because knowing there are few 'specialist' traders, 'specialist' punters don't attend? 

 

My observation (in general) is that there is a preponderance these days at 'major' shows of 'box-shifters'. Clearly it's worth their while, and, because of the size of their stands, they'll pay a lot more than the kit-manufacturers. Fortunately, there are still some 'larger' shows where one can get metal kits. Just off-hand, there's Stevenage, York, Railex, Warley (of course), Wigan and a few 'smaller' ones as well - Railwells, for instance. There are probably many more, and, even though the metal kit-makers are absent, Glasgow (in particular) is always worth going to; as is Ally Pally. 

 

Generally, though, if one wants 'specialist' goods, then the scale/gauge shows are the ones to go to. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Maybe if demand is there he would consider reissuing the Pocket Money wagons.

 

I spoke to him when ordering some of the loco kits and asked exactly that question.  I forget the details - I did say they'd be fine as etches only as the castings could be sourced elsewhere - but I came away with the conclusion that he wouldn't be producing any more.

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49 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

Taking Bill Bedford and his Mousa Models range as an example .... I fear the latter! His earlier kits were mainly etched brass and a lot of fun to build - but he appears to be phasing these out in favour of resin and 3d printing. The chassis is still brass ... but the rest you don't even glue together.

 

On the counter to that, and related partially to my earlier post too, the great move to etched brass and away from glue together white metal body kits on r-t-r chassis was one of the things that aided the drift away from kits. The elite modellers were happy as were some of the upper middle ground as it improved quality. They have the skill set to do it.

 

Beginners and lower middle standard were deterred. I tried a brass kit, was dissatisfied with it and have rarely tried brass since. It aided my drift in the early 1990s away from modelling into other railway related interests.

 

 I will have another go with brass as I’ve returned to the active modelling fold but card, plastic and resin for me will be a first choice. Horses for courses, but brass valve gear and all that fiddling with soldering pin heads requires watchmaking skills we don’t all have.

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10 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

I spoke to him when ordering some of the loco kits and asked exactly that question.  I forget the details - I did say they'd be fine as etches only as the castings could be sourced elsewhere - but I came away with the conclusion that he wouldn't be producing any more.

 

That's a shame as I built a couple of the wagon kits in 7mm scale when I dabbled in it and they were an absolute joy to build, and great to practice soldering, bending and forming rivets on.

 

 

 

Jason

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58 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'don't try a Jidenco as your first brass kit.' 

 

Sound advice, Jonathan.

 

Though I'd take it further - don't try Jidenco as your two hundredth brass kit!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

A caution too far, Tony - I have built a number of Jidenco kits, and they are perfectly acceptable models of subjects that are otherwise unavailable. (I still have some, in Falcon Brass guise, to build).

 

Have you built any yourself?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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15 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

I haven't been doing this lark long enough to comment.

 

I always got the impression that the etched brass kits were more "and/also" made to fill gaps and compliment the white metal offerings  ....rather than either/or to supplant them. I also got the impression that they were to give an option to lesser mortals who couldn't manage scratch building. 

 

But I may have that wrong.

 

I have recently been scratch building some wagons from Plasticard, and I would observe that this process in many ways is every bit as demanding as constructing an etched brass kit.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/1688925466_3plankwagon-5.jpg.d95a45d89589afdbb0a8b6ce2c5bb885.jpg

 

Lovely work!

 

I have built several wagons in a similar way, using etched/cast detailing bits.

 

I find it hugely rewarding and such wagons are treasured much more than any kit or modified RTR. It is probably harder work than some kits but if you get a bad kit, building from scratch can sometimes be easier than trying to alter poorly designed and wrongly shaped bits into something that will go together and look like what it is supposed to be.

 

I have long since given up worrying about technology or the future of the hobby. People have been predicting the demise of the hobby for as long as I can remember and it hasn't happened yet. I will continue making things the way I like doing it (a bit "old school") and those who want to use computers and modern technology can carry on their way. Those who wish to use RTR either out of the box or modified are fine to as long as they enjoy what they are doing. That is really all that matters.

 

As long as there are people around who build models like yours, the hobby is alive and well!

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Following on from my 3D printed test models for the N Gauge C12 and N1, I've spend some time today working out the arrangement for the etched chassis for the N1.

 

735110214_N1ChassisAssembly1.jpg.373af996c1cf56ae6f7e334e41ee1b1a.jpg

 

458335567_N1ChassisAssembly2.jpg.6790f151d9f38a22aad6c335102262e3.jpg

 

718925702_N1ChassisAssembly3.jpg.f2af2f3a5bc4e0d7bf86687f34fec3f5.jpg

 

1068885161_N1ChassisAssembly4.jpg.fe4c3bec9f536df121ee068b00ea2e63.jpg

 

1890176587_N1ChassisAssembly.jpg.2fb4faf0ea903e676eebed86fc88fe87.jpg

 

Nothing too special, just a straight worm and wheel arrangement providing a 25:1 reduction on an 11,000 rpm motor. The chassis itself will be split frame and built using the 2mm Association's methods.

 

Edited by Atso
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2 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

I haven't been doing this lark long enough to comment.

 

I always got the impression that the etched brass kits were more "and/also" made to fill gaps and compliment the white metal offerings  ....rather than either/or to supplant them. I also got the impression that they were to give an option to lesser mortals who couldn't manage scratch building. 

 

But I may have that wrong.

 

I suspect elements of both our views are right and neither are 100% correct, user perception also varies. About 10 years ago now I scratch built a traverser out of brass tube and strip just before I drifted out of active modelling for a few years so I'm not averse to the materiaL as such. It is just most of the kit etches I see look to be very fiddly or for things like huts I would probably scratch build out of card.

Edited by john new
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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Scott,

 

And no prizes for guessing which one interests me more! I can see the one behind in any catalogue, model shop or at a show (hundreds of 'em). I can also own it, should I choose. But so what? I'm not saying the Bachmann EVENING STAR is not a good model (quite the contrary; Bachmann's 9F at source in many ways is superior to a DJH equivalent) but, to own one, all one needs is cash. That's not to decry those who cannot make one the right to own one, either, but one is personal property, the other is a personal creation, which, I hope, this thread is all about. Should anyone take the Bachmann 9F a stage further, by altering/detailing/weathering it, then that's also a personal creation, and there's great merit in that. But only if one does it oneself. 

 

That DoG of yours is beautiful. My compliments.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

My favourite 9F is Evening Star always wanted one.

 

Managed to save up Christmas and Birthday money to buy a Bachmann (wages go on house and boring stuff like food).

 

Just because I bought it does it mean it means less to me than my kit stuff.

 

You can like all sources, RTR, converted RTR, kit, scratch.

 

They are all mine.

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