RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted October 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: I imagine they're shot digitally, Mark. As I've mentioned earlier, it's probably more to do with the lighting. I'm intrigued by this colour 'battleship grey'. I've only ever seen one battleship in the flesh (though I must get over the pond to see the American survivors, because I consider them to be the most impressive vessels of war ever made). It was a KGV Class one, in about 1954, in the docks at Liverpool. I saw it from the Liverpool Overhead Railway. My memory, as an eight year old, is one of it being very dark. Yet, looking at B&W pictures of VANGUARD recently, she was very light grey. Perhaps on a Mediterranean cruise? Regards, Tony. Quite probably, re Vanguard, Tony. By way of thread drift, herewith a picture of Warspite in Mediterranean light grey as entering Malta in April 1938. Made from an old Airfix kit many years ago. Tim 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: I imagine they're shot digitally, Mark. As I've mentioned earlier, it's probably more to do with the lighting. I'm intrigued by this colour 'battleship grey'. I've only ever seen one battleship in the flesh (though I must get over the pond to see the American survivors, because I consider them to be the most impressive vessels of war ever made). It was a KGV Class one, in about 1954, in the docks at Liverpool. I saw it from the Liverpool Overhead Railway. My memory, as an eight year old, is one of it being very dark. Yet, looking at B&W pictures of VANGUARD recently, she was very light grey. Perhaps on a Mediterranean cruise? Regards, Tony. I was thinking about original images, Tony - but even digital ones can vary, can they not? Depending on camera, firmware etc? I can confirm, by the way, that the USS "Texas", which, poor old girl, is in imminent danger of sinking at her moorings, is a very dark grey, but the USS "Lexington", which I have visited at Corpus Christi, is a much lighter grey. Mark 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Marlin Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Good morning Tony. Despite a long abeyance, I'm back to modelling again and have at last managed to start installing the bridges I was building when last we spoke! Hope all's well chez Wright, Gavin 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 At least the chosen shade of grey for 10000, whatever it ultimately is, won't have to match any other loco on a layout. That's the most difficult thing when locos of supposedly the same colour come from different makers who fail to establish and adhere to any agreed overall standard. One could always go for a medium-dark grey and alter the appearance to taste by adjusting lighting levels up or down...... Alternatively, at least to create a racy talking point, paint it in fifty different shades. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, gr.king said: Alternatively, at least to create a racy talking point, paint it in fifty different shades. I wondered who would succumb and make that reference! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 56 minutes ago, MarkC said: I can confirm, by the way, that the USS "Texas", which, poor old girl, is in imminent danger of sinking at her moorings, is a very dark grey, but the USS "Lexington", which I have visited at Corpus Christi, is a much lighter grey. Mark The US Navy painted it's ships in a number of different colour schemes (called Measures) which varied from a light 'Haze' grey, which is the current default colour for USN ships, to dark blues/greys. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, johndon said: The US Navy painted it's ships in a number of different colour schemes (called Measures) which varied from a light 'Haze' grey, which is the current default colour for USN ships, to dark blues/greys. John Thanks for that, John. Not just the Andrew that went for different hues then Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, MarkC said: Thanks for that, John. Not just the Andrew that went for different hues then Mark No Even to this day, there is a huge debate over what colour the USS Arizona was painted on the 7th December 1941 when she was sunk at Pearl Harbor with both sides of the colour camp insisting that they are correct. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post Michael Edge Posted October 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 Photos (by Ian Rathbone) of two W1 models I have built, Ian seems to have gone with the lighter shade. This one is 4mm from the SEF kit. This one scratchbuilt in 7mm scale, the boiler casing is probably the most difficult forming job I've ever done. The trailing axles are in internal pony trucks, one as designed, the Cartazzi axle on its equivalent radius - I have tried building radial axlebox arrangements but haven't found them very reliable, they either tend to stick or are too slack to keep the wheels at the right angle. 15 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted October 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, gr.king said: At least the chosen shade of grey for 10000, whatever it ultimately is, won't have to match any other loco on a layout. That's the most difficult thing when locos of supposedly the same colour come from different makers who fail to establish and adhere to any agreed overall standard. One could always go for a medium-dark grey and alter the appearance to taste by adjusting lighting levels up or down...... Alternatively, at least to create a racy talking point, paint it in fifty different shades. I was wondering the opposite... whether the shade of grey used might be similar to that applied to the nose of the A4’s painted silver and grey to haul the Silver Jubilee stock? Although Hush Hush was built first, the colours are not dissimilar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chamby said: I was wondering the opposite... whether the shade of grey used might be similar to that applied to the nose of the A4’s painted silver and grey to haul the Silver Jubilee stock? Although Hush Hush was built first, the colours are not dissimilar. To me, it looks for all the world like undercoat / photographic grey which has been varnished. I doubt that Halford's gey primer would be too far from the mark ! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrovich Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 10 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Andrew, 'more to do with individual photographers and their cameras than the actual colour of the locomotives.' I'd made that assumption. Not to mention different lighting as well? Which just goes to show, be very careful of any colours in photographs, be they of the real thing or models! Regards, Tony. All to do with film type or glass plate material then the chemicals, fixes formulas on top of that. Regards Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrovich Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Michael Edge said: Photos (by Ian Rathbone) of two W1 models I have built, Ian seems to have gone with the lighter shade. This one is 4mm from the SEF kit. This one scratchbuilt in 7mm scale, the boiler casing is probably the most difficult forming job I've ever done. The trailing axles are in internal pony trucks, one as designed, the Cartazzi axle on its equivalent radius - I have tried building radial axlebox arrangements but haven't found them very reliable, they either tend to stick or are too slack to keep the wheels at the right angle. Absolutely stunning.................. Regards Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrovich Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 All I have positioned myself to avoid the thrown knives and axes but why is it that the LNER produced probably the two finest looking late design engines, the P2 and the W1 but only in small numbers, surely someone at the time reported how good they were or was it bad management that did for them. Regards Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, petrovich said: All to do with film type or glass plate material then the chemicals, fixes formulas on top of that. Regards Peter Thanks Peter, Then there's the printing in magazines.......................... There's even different colours among computer screens. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just caught up on the page after a few days of sitting in the sun and enjoying way to many cold alcoholic beverages, I do love a Monday public holiday..... A W1, love to get my hands on a SEF kit, perhaps keep it for years later when my kit building has improved, got a DJH B16 sitting her staring at me and that J39 longing to be finished.... I also noticed some talk about how BR days is the choice of modelling now, as you said Tony, the people in the modelling world at the moment had seen the real thing. Got me thinking, what does that make me? A 23 year old, from Australia, modelling the UK in the 1930s.......either I’m mad, or have some serious b*lls! Tony, I hope Mo passed on the information about my stay at Wright’s Towers, last Friday? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted October 9, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, petrovich said: All I have positioned myself to avoid the thrown knives and axes but why is it that the LNER produced probably the two finest looking late design engines, the P2 and the W1 but only in small numbers, surely someone at the time reported how good they were or was it bad management that did for them. Regards Peter I'd definitely agree with you, Peter, regarding the P2s - at least in terms of their appearance. Their history, and subsequent 'transformation' into locos of little worth by Gresley's successor has been discussed (too much already?) on this thread. They remain quirks of history, though it shouldn't be too long before we see a brand new one emerge. How long we'll have to wait before a group decides to build a full-sized new Thompson Pacific is anyone's guess. My guess is NEVER. As for the original W1, it's certainly an impressive machine, but it wasn't a success as a railway locomotive. It did do some good work, but its shopping intervals were far too frequent, and the team at Darlington never really solved all the problems. A brave experiment might be a good description. As rebuilt into a sort of stretched A4, it was certainly powerful, but so much of it was unique that it was never going to have the same annual mileages as it smaller siblings. For instance, an A4, say, could go into Donny Plant and emerge not long afterwards with a new/reconditioned boiler (there being several spares). Not so with the W1. It had to wait until its boiler (the only one of its kind) was repaired - an often lengthy process. I've made a model of the rebuilt W1, of course. Built from a SE Finecast kit, Ian Rathbone painted it. Today, it's a regular on Little Bytham. When new, it ran on Stoke Summit. The Bigglesade builders used to borrow it when that great layout was exhibited. It's even been seen on Peterborough North (it couldn't run because it's not DCC). Quite a nomad. And, in posting these pictures, I note than Ian has put the shedplate on too high up! After all these years, I didn't notice! PN has its own W1, anyway now - a Hornby/Graeme King conversion by Tim Easter. Speaking of Hornby A4/KIng W1 conversions, LB has played host to at least two............. Tom Rance's lovely effort in its pre-War guise. And David West's, in the same time period as mine. Beautifully-natural weathering. I must have pictures of Graeme's own conversion somewhere. The rebuilt W1 is popular in O Gauge as well. Witness this factory-built DJH example. Pity that the front numberplate has the 'correct', though 'incorrect' style of '6'. Regards, Tony. Edited October 10, 2019 by Tony Wright typo error 20 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted October 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2019 On 08/10/2019 at 11:19, Lecorbusier said: For me it is all about realism. I am modelling the high days of the Edwardian Midland ... so beautifully kept and cherished stock. But if you look at the old photos you find that even then there were varying degrees of muck and grime. The subtlety of a well weathered loco fresh from a polish a clean up has so much more depth than one with no weathering. My take is that you have to first weather the loco to a realistic state before it goes in for its clean, and then clean it back ... mimicking the real process and leaving traces of the dirt in all the nooks and crannies. Of course the under gubbins, roofs etc were always pretty dirty come what may .... I even have some photos of beautifully polished Johnson locos with heat bubbling and paint degradation to the smoke boxes ... which suggests as usual the rose tinted specs can be far from the reality. Is it possible that the impression of beautifully clean locomotives and rolling stock in the pre-Grouping era, comes from the fact that photography was a very expensive activity at that time. Many of the photos in existence would have been taken by the railway companies' own or commissioned photographer. You can be sure the customer made extra certain that their property was shown at its best on the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted October 9, 2019 Author Share Posted October 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said: Just caught up on the page after a few days of sitting in the sun and enjoying way to many cold alcoholic beverages, I do love a Monday public holiday..... A W1, love to get my hands on a SEF kit, perhaps keep it for years later when my kit building has improved, got a DJH B16 sitting her staring at me and that J39 longing to be finished.... I also noticed some talk about how BR days is the choice of modelling now, as you said Tony, the people in the modelling world at the moment had seen the real thing. Got me thinking, what does that make me? A 23 year old, from Australia, modelling the UK in the 1930s.......either I’m mad, or have some serious b*lls! Tony, I hope Mo passed on the information about my stay at Wright’s Towers, last Friday? She did, Jesse, And we're both looking forward to your staying here with us next month. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted October 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 9, 2019 9 hours ago, johndon said: No Even to this day, there is a huge debate over what colour the USS Arizona was painted on the 7th December 1941 when she was sunk at Pearl Harbor with both sides of the colour camp insisting that they are correct. I hope this isn't a silly question but couldn't they just pop down and have a look? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 As I understand it, there is too too much fire damage and, now, rust so there is pretty much nothing left of the original paint. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 W1 via Horby A4 and Graeme Kings excellent resin parts, interesting how the light has made the post war 10000 Tender look a different colour , they are both the same colour in reality. Also a modified Hornby A4 Tender which had had the missing Chrome strip added to the bottom as mentioned a few times recently on posts ( no idea how to change the order of photos on here). 10 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 23 hours ago, Willie Whizz said: (Just catching-up with the thread after a couple of days away ...) Indeed it was - but in modelling terms I am still, after much effort, finding it a complete pain to try and devise a plausible, operationally satisfactory and tolerably authentic track plan of a station (even somewhat truncated), passing loops and goods yard for anything more than the most basic and rural of GC-style stations to be built in a comparatively moderate space. I had something that would have been workable a couple of years back, and built half the boards, but then had to move house - and having finally been able to come back to the issue in recent weeks, find the old plan doesn't fit the new space and can't easily be adapted. Trading a little less length for a little more width certainly doesn't seem to work on the GC! Good evening Willie, as an alternative to a station, how about a location such as Rushcliffe Halt and the associated sidings of the British Gypsum works at Hotchleyhill? There is lots of potential at Hotchleyhill, due to the traffic from the Gypsum mines, located down the Gotham branch and the mainline trains that departed from the works each day. If interesting scenics are your thing, the crossing of the Oxford canal might be of interest. Another interesting location would be the Ministry of supply depot and sidings at Rudington. Lots of ex MOD equipment (armored vehicles to razorblades) went to the auctions there by train on a daily basis. Out of interest, if you are struggling to accommodate the stations, how do you deal with the trains? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 14 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Andrew, 'more to do with individual photographers and their cameras than the actual colour of the locomotives.' I'd made that assumption. Not to mention different lighting as well? Which just goes to show, be very careful of any colours in photographs, be they of the real thing or models! Regards, Tony. Evening Tony, General conclusions can be made about colour in photographs, It's reasonably easy to work out the ones that are off but also to back track on those affected by colour casts, especially if that is your job. There are many factors that can effect colour, you rightly added lighting (I've spent most of today sorting out the most awful lighting on an emergency job) The most important in the digital realm is how good your colour management is. I would guesses that 96% of people viewing this thread have little or no colour management. As an example, if you use Internet explorer, it has no inbuilt colour management. As a photographers, if you don't tag your files with colour profiles (It amazes me how many don't) then colour savvy devices such as posh monitors and printers can't see or read the colour properly, that is as likely to be a problem with the 'Hush hush photographs as any other. I suspect that there are few people viewing this thread on a fully self calibrating monitor designed for graphic artwork as I am doing. When working with the right equipment in a proper colour managed workflow, you are working from a position of overwhelming advantage when commenting on colour I would be out of work if it wasn't so. 14 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I imagine they're shot digitally, Mark. As I've mentioned earlier, it's probably more to do with the lighting. I'm intrigued by this colour 'battleship grey'. I've only ever seen one battleship in the flesh (though I must get over the pond to see the American survivors, because I consider them to be the most impressive vessels of war ever made). It was a KGV Class one, in about 1954, in the docks at Liverpool. I saw it from the Liverpool Overhead Railway. My memory, as an eight year old, is one of it being very dark. Yet, looking at B&W pictures of VANGUARD recently, she was very light grey. Perhaps on a Mediterranean cruise? Regards, Tony. You may be interested in this shot of KGV from 1941, the Dark grey is Admiralty 507B Home fleet Dark grey, the remains of early wartime green camouflage can be seen along the waterline. This was discontinued pretty quickly as having no discernible use. Heavy weather in the Atlantic has had quite an effect on the paint scheme. 14 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Headstock Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 Seeing that Battleships are more fun than trains. My favorite image of a KGV class BB. With that amount of clag, the ship is obviously on a photographic charter. 9 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now