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31 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I imagine they're shot digitally, Mark.

 

As I've mentioned earlier, it's probably more to do with the lighting. 

 

I'm intrigued by this colour 'battleship grey'. I've only ever seen one battleship in the flesh (though I must get over the pond to see the American survivors, because I consider them to be the most impressive vessels of war ever made). It was a KGV Class one, in about 1954, in the docks at Liverpool. I saw it from the Liverpool Overhead Railway. My memory, as an eight year old, is one of it being very dark. Yet, looking at B&W pictures of VANGUARD recently, she was very light grey. Perhaps on a Mediterranean cruise? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Quite probably, re Vanguard, Tony.  By way of thread drift, herewith a picture of Warspite in Mediterranean light grey as entering Malta in April 1938.  

78F554B5-7BA2-45E7-980F-482D4526DF5A.jpeg.2522c68f9833339bc46348cc3b40b4dd.jpeg

Made from an old Airfix kit many years ago. 

 

Tim

 

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49 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I imagine they're shot digitally, Mark.

 

As I've mentioned earlier, it's probably more to do with the lighting. 

 

I'm intrigued by this colour 'battleship grey'. I've only ever seen one battleship in the flesh (though I must get over the pond to see the American survivors, because I consider them to be the most impressive vessels of war ever made). It was a KGV Class one, in about 1954, in the docks at Liverpool. I saw it from the Liverpool Overhead Railway. My memory, as an eight year old, is one of it being very dark. Yet, looking at B&W pictures of VANGUARD recently, she was very light grey. Perhaps on a Mediterranean cruise? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I was thinking about original images, Tony - but even digital ones can vary, can they not? Depending on camera, firmware etc?

 

I can confirm, by the way, that the USS "Texas", which, poor old girl, is in imminent danger of sinking at her moorings, is a very dark grey, but the USS "Lexington", which I have visited at Corpus Christi, is a much lighter grey.

 

Mark

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At least the chosen shade of grey for 10000, whatever it ultimately is, won't have to match any other loco on a layout. That's the most difficult thing when locos of supposedly the same colour come from different makers who fail to establish and adhere to any agreed overall standard. One could always go for a medium-dark grey and alter the appearance to taste by adjusting lighting levels up or down......

 

Alternatively, at least to create a racy talking point, paint it in fifty different shades.

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56 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I can confirm, by the way, that the USS "Texas", which, poor old girl, is in imminent danger of sinking at her moorings, is a very dark grey, but the USS "Lexington", which I have visited at Corpus Christi, is a much lighter grey.

 

Mark

 

The US Navy painted it's ships in a number of different colour schemes (called Measures) which varied from a light 'Haze' grey, which is the current default colour for USN ships, to dark blues/greys.

 

John

 

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22 minutes ago, johndon said:

 

The US Navy painted it's ships in a number of different colour schemes (called Measures) which varied from a light 'Haze' grey, which is the current default colour for USN ships, to dark blues/greys.

 

John

 

Thanks for that, John. Not just the Andrew that went for different hues then :)

 

Mark

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1 minute ago, MarkC said:

Thanks for that, John. Not just the Andrew that went for different hues then :)

 

Mark

 

No :)

 

Even to this day, there is a huge debate over what colour the USS Arizona was painted on the 7th December 1941 when she was sunk at Pearl Harbor with both sides of the colour camp insisting that they are correct.

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2 hours ago, gr.king said:

At least the chosen shade of grey for 10000, whatever it ultimately is, won't have to match any other loco on a layout. That's the most difficult thing when locos of supposedly the same colour come from different makers who fail to establish and adhere to any agreed overall standard. One could always go for a medium-dark grey and alter the appearance to taste by adjusting lighting levels up or down......

 

Alternatively, at least to create a racy talking point, paint it in fifty different shades.

 

I was wondering the opposite... whether the shade of grey used might be similar to that applied to the nose of the A4’s painted silver and grey to haul the Silver Jubilee stock?  Although Hush Hush was built first, the colours are not dissimilar.

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12 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

I was wondering the opposite... whether the shade of grey used might be similar to that applied to the nose of the A4’s painted silver and grey to haul the Silver Jubilee stock?  Although Hush Hush was built first, the colours are not dissimilar.

 

To me, it looks for all the world like undercoat / photographic grey which has been varnished.

 

I doubt that Halford's gey primer would be too far from the mark !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andrew,

 

'more to do with individual photographers and their cameras than the actual colour of the locomotives.'

 

I'd made that assumption. Not to mention different lighting as well?

 

Which just goes to show, be very careful of any colours in photographs, be they of the real thing or models!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

All to do with film type or glass plate material then the chemicals, fixes formulas on top of that.

 

Regards

 

Peter

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7 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Photos (by Ian Rathbone) of two W1 models I have built, Ian seems to have gone with the lighter shade.

1992117404_09-03flpainted.jpg.8c925862fd3c747022ba4ba01f8b07f4.jpg

This one is 4mm from the SEF kit.

1961047585_08-24flpainted.jpg.01763e516179b89f89f0f2013a863c32.jpg

This one scratchbuilt in 7mm scale, the boiler casing is probably the most difficult forming job I've ever done. The trailing axles are in internal pony trucks, one as designed, the Cartazzi axle on its equivalent radius - I have tried building radial axlebox arrangements but haven't found them very reliable, they either tend to stick or are too slack to keep the wheels at the right angle.

Absolutely stunning..................

 

Regards 

 

Peter

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All

 

I have positioned myself to avoid the thrown knives and axes but why is it that the LNER produced probably the two finest looking late design engines, the P2 and the W1 but only in small numbers, surely someone at the time reported how good they were or was it bad management that did for them.

 

Regards

 

Peter

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43 minutes ago, petrovich said:

All to do with film type or glass plate material then the chemicals, fixes formulas on top of that.

 

Regards

 

Peter

Thanks Peter,

 

Then there's the printing in magazines..........................

 

There's even different colours among computer screens.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Just caught up on the page after a few days of sitting in the sun and enjoying way to many cold alcoholic beverages, I do love a Monday public holiday.....

 

A W1, love to get my hands on a SEF kit, perhaps keep it for years later when my kit building has improved, got a DJH B16 sitting her staring at me and that J39 longing to be finished....

 

I also noticed some talk about how BR days is the choice of modelling now, as you said Tony, the people in the modelling world at the moment had seen the real thing. Got me thinking, what does that make me? A 23 year old, from Australia, modelling the UK in the 1930s.......either I’m mad, or have some serious b*lls! 

 

 

Tony, I hope Mo passed on the information about my stay at Wright’s Towers, last Friday? 

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On 08/10/2019 at 11:19, Lecorbusier said:

For me it is all about realism. I am modelling the high days of the Edwardian Midland ... so beautifully kept and cherished stock. But if you look at the old photos you find that even then there were varying degrees of muck and grime. The subtlety of a well weathered loco fresh from a polish a clean up has so much more depth than one with no weathering. My take is that you have to first weather the loco to a realistic state before it goes in for its clean, and then clean it back ... mimicking the real process and leaving traces of the dirt in all the nooks and crannies. Of course the under gubbins, roofs etc were always pretty dirty come what may .... I even have some photos of beautifully polished Johnson locos with heat bubbling and paint degradation to the smoke boxes ... which suggests as usual the rose tinted specs can be far from the reality.

Is it possible that the impression of beautifully clean locomotives and rolling stock in the pre-Grouping era, comes from the fact that photography was a very expensive activity at that time.  Many of the photos in existence would have been taken by the railway companies' own or commissioned photographer.  You can be sure the customer made extra certain that their property was shown at its best on the day.

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22 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

Just caught up on the page after a few days of sitting in the sun and enjoying way to many cold alcoholic beverages, I do love a Monday public holiday.....

 

A W1, love to get my hands on a SEF kit, perhaps keep it for years later when my kit building has improved, got a DJH B16 sitting her staring at me and that J39 longing to be finished....

 

I also noticed some talk about how BR days is the choice of modelling now, as you said Tony, the people in the modelling world at the moment had seen the real thing. Got me thinking, what does that make me? A 23 year old, from Australia, modelling the UK in the 1930s.......either I’m mad, or have some serious b*lls! 

 

 

Tony, I hope Mo passed on the information about my stay at Wright’s Towers, last Friday? 

She did, Jesse,

 

And we're both looking forward to your staying here with us next month.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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9 hours ago, johndon said:

 

No :)

 

Even to this day, there is a huge debate over what colour the USS Arizona was painted on the 7th December 1941 when she was sunk at Pearl Harbor with both sides of the colour camp insisting that they are correct.

I hope this isn't a silly question but couldn't they just pop down and have a look?

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W1 via Horby A4 and Graeme Kings excellent resin parts, interesting how the light has made the post war 10000 Tender look a different colour , they are both the same colour in reality.

 

Also a modified Hornby A4 Tender which had had the missing Chrome strip added to the bottom as mentioned a few times recently on posts  ( no idea how to change the order of photos on here).

 

post-7186-0-50016200-1474185989_thumb.jpgpost-7186-0-39191700-1398620794_thumb.jpgpost-7186-0-45087400-1450194133_thumb.jpg

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23 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

 

(Just catching-up with the thread after a couple of days away ...)

 

Indeed it was - but in modelling terms I am still, after much effort, finding it a complete pain to try and devise a plausible, operationally satisfactory and tolerably authentic track plan of a station (even somewhat truncated), passing loops and goods yard for anything more than the most basic and rural of GC-style stations to be built in a comparatively moderate space.  I had something that would have been workable a couple of years back, and built half the boards, but then had to move house - and having finally been able to come back to the issue in recent weeks, find the old plan doesn't fit the new space and can't easily be adapted.  Trading a little less length for a little more width certainly doesn't seem to work on the GC!

 

Good evening Willie,

 

as an alternative to a station, how about a location such as Rushcliffe Halt and the associated sidings of the British Gypsum works at Hotchleyhill? There is lots of potential at Hotchleyhill, due to the traffic from the Gypsum mines, located down the Gotham branch and the mainline trains that departed from the works each day. If interesting scenics are your thing, the crossing of the Oxford canal might be of interest. Another interesting location would be the Ministry of supply depot and sidings at Rudington. Lots of ex MOD equipment (armored vehicles to razorblades) went to the auctions there by train on a daily basis. Out of interest, if you are struggling to accommodate the stations, how do you deal with the trains?

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14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andrew,

 

'more to do with individual photographers and their cameras than the actual colour of the locomotives.'

 

I'd made that assumption. Not to mention different lighting as well?

 

Which just goes to show, be very careful of any colours in photographs, be they of the real thing or models!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 


Evening Tony,


General conclusions can be made about colour in photographs, It's reasonably easy to work out the ones that are off but also to back track on those affected by colour casts, especially if that is your job. There are many factors that can effect colour, you rightly added lighting (I've spent most of today sorting out the most awful lighting on an emergency job) The most important in the digital realm is how good your colour management is. I would guesses that 96% of people viewing this thread have little or no colour management. As an example, if you use Internet explorer, it has no inbuilt colour management. As a photographers, if you don't tag your files with colour profiles (It amazes me how many don't) then  colour savvy devices such as posh monitors and printers can't see or read the colour properly, that is as likely to be a problem with the 'Hush hush photographs as any other. I suspect that there are few people viewing this thread on a fully self calibrating monitor designed for graphic artwork as I am doing.  When working with the right equipment in a proper colour managed workflow,  you are working from a position of overwhelming advantage when commenting on colour I would be out of work if it wasn't so.

 

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I imagine they're shot digitally, Mark.

 

As I've mentioned earlier, it's probably more to do with the lighting. 

 

I'm intrigued by this colour 'battleship grey'. I've only ever seen one battleship in the flesh (though I must get over the pond to see the American survivors, because I consider them to be the most impressive vessels of war ever made). It was a KGV Class one, in about 1954, in the docks at Liverpool. I saw it from the Liverpool Overhead Railway. My memory, as an eight year old, is one of it being very dark. Yet, looking at B&W pictures of VANGUARD recently, she was very light grey. Perhaps on a Mediterranean cruise? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

You may be interested in this shot of KGV from 1941, the Dark grey is Admiralty 507B Home fleet Dark grey, the remains of early wartime green camouflage can be seen along the waterline. This was discontinued pretty quickly as having no discernible use. Heavy weather in the Atlantic has had quite an effect on the paint scheme.

KGV 1941.jpg

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