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Tony Wright

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4 minutes ago, micklner said:

and ignore the lack of smoke and put up with god awful so called "sound" effects as well !!

 

Each to their own , if your happy the be happy !!

 

I find the sound effects one makes oneself to be the most effective - though it's wisest to keep these to the privacy of one's own railway room. 

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25 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

Due to the fact that OO wheel are wider than scale. The thing is that the overall width is similar but the flanges are closer.

 

This is why it does not look too bad.

 

I don't have a problem with OO - or N gauge come to that, (I've just put an N gauge layout on the cover of MRJ),  and I certainly don't want to get involved in gauge wars I was simply trying to point out that its a very broad church hobby. If you don't like what a particular RTR manufacturer makes, don't buy it. We all have to make compromises in our modelling, the big difference is what compromises we choose to make. Stones and glass houses comes to mind.......

 

Jerry 

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34 minutes ago, queensquare said:

It really does amuse me how some are getting so hot under the collar about the possible release of some generic coaches - I think they look great and I'm sure will sell very well. If you don't like them and want something more accurate then don't buy them and build your own - simple!

I wonder how many of those getting terribly excited about 'trainset set coaches' run their trains on a gauge of a little over four foot.:)

 

Jerry

 

I am not terribly hot under the collar, I simply think it is a missed opportunity to advance pre grouping modelling as an option for those who have a preference for RTR. I prefer kits and building things but would have purchased some if they were grounded in reality. But they aren't so my limited RTR purchases will stay that way.

 

As I said before, I cannot imagine the reaction would have been so fulsome if Hattons had announced a generic pregroup loco or a generic contemporary diesel. To me it continues to fuel the impression that rolling stock does not matter and I think that in particular is unfortunate. 

 

Each to their own etc, and my track is to the correct gauge which possibly is reflected in my pedantry about such things.

 

Craig W  

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12 hours ago, PMP said:

If there’s a good RTR version of something I’m building, I will frequently take the RTR route for expediency. There are still items that can happily co-exist together, I still make and run Airfix/Dapol 16t minerals and Bachmann’s together, and similar with other wagons. Both kit and RTR will be worked on though giving a more consistent appearance.

On CCT’s I had a Parkside version underway when Hornby’s version came out, and I made the decision to carry on with the kit. Partly because the kit I had was for the ply sided version, and to help match it into the mix of RTR items I added a representative brake gear from scraps. This was a case of the RTR item making me ‘step up’ the kit built wagon, and it looks ok in the fleet mix I have.

 

273E0206-725D-4142-B33E-319DA8CD42D9.jpeg

14A5CFB5-44C3-4AF3-86D8-4AFFC6785A62.jpeg

It is not like me to be critical of what others do but haven't you built the top one upside down?

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17 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Al,

 

It would seem they have exceptionally-low prices. They should go well. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I'm not sure, following the 'view product' link reveals that the £20 listed is just a deposit.  There is a further £77.50 to pay, plus the cost of an as-yet unspecified proprietary chassis to be purchased.  The chassis kit will be around £40, plus the usual wheel/gears/motor combination to be purchased in addition.  That take us to £137.50 for a body, tender and chassis with no wheels/gears/motor...

 

I'm sure the overall price would be somewhere around the £200 mark.  Is that exceptionally low?  Not really.  Will it be worth it for a good quality J37?  Only time will tell.

 

It will be interesting to see the final result, a this sort of 'multimedia' kit is already common in military and aero modelling - and the quality in those realms suggest that these could be really rather good.

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15 minutes ago, Craigw said:

As I said before, I cannot imagine the reaction would have been so fulsome if Hattons had announced a generic pregroup loco or a generic contemporary diesel. To me it continues to fuel the impression that rolling stock does not matter and I think that in particular is unfortunate. 

 

 

Well, yes, and if I was the supreme autocrat of RTR I would enforce a decree that locomotives must only be sold in train packs with appropriate rolling stock produced to the same standard of detail, sufficient to make a train of an authentic composition and length. 

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You must be a rich man to Wantage complete train in a box. I notice lots of"split from sets " items available so it looks like you are in a minority group Compound2632.

Baz

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1 hour ago, MJI said:

 

 

I just had a look, I originally assumed one of the main builders stock which was sold to various railways, but no they are trainset coaches.

That's a good point. If they had been that (something by Metropolitan perhaps) they would at least have been accurate for some railways.

I really don't see the point of wholly freelance models, if people will accept that, why not coaches accurate for one (or a few) railway, but offered also in other liveries? They would be no more inaccurate for those other lines, and at least would be correct for some.

It does seem odd that when threads analyse the accuracy or otherwise of RTR locomotives in great detail that freelance coaches seem a good idea.

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This was all done to death on the appropriate thread. It seems that people who didn't get much support on that one now wish to continue the discussion on this thread instead.

 

As "queensquare" says, there is an easy answer. If you don't like the product, don't buy it.

 

There are plenty of people out there who will be happy to get some "near enough" carriages to go behind their RTR pre-grouping loco. There will be a much smaller number who follow a specific company and would insist on having accurate models of their actual company carriages. It is clearly a commercial decision to make the project viable and they will be much better than the alternatives presently available.

 

I have been known to build a model or two and I like my models to be as "right" as I can get them but I choose not to act towards those who do things differently as if they are "just" playing toy trains.

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28 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

I'm not sure, following the 'view product' link reveals that the £20 listed is just a deposit.  There is a further £77.50 to pay, plus the cost of an as-yet unspecified proprietary chassis to be purchased.  The chassis kit will be around £40, plus the usual wheel/gears/motor combination to be purchased in addition.  That take us to £137.50 for a body, tender and chassis with no wheels/gears/motor...

 

I'm sure the overall price would be somewhere around the £200 mark.  Is that exceptionally low?  Not really.  Will it be worth it for a good quality J37?  Only time will tell.

 

It will be interesting to see the final result, a this sort of 'multimedia' kit is already common in military and aero modelling - and the quality in those realms suggest that these could be really rather good.

I was (ignorantly) assuming that the price shown was the 'final' price. Al (Barry Ten) put me right on that.

 

If the final thing (everything purchased) is a fine kit, then £200.00 is very good value in my book. I know that one can get a full-blown RTR Pacific for less than that, but can one get a pre-Grouping NBR 4-4-0 for the same price RTR?  

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

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1 hour ago, Craigw said:

 

Totally agree John, I said and still think it is a terrible backwards step.  Quite how this will push pre grouping modelling forward I do not see. Surely if these are a success, the next thing coming out will be generic bogie stock and then goods stock.

 

If anybody can explain how that advances the hobby then please do.

 

I appreciate the appeal of these coaches if you want to model a fictional light railway but there is precious little evidence of that beinga  major area of interest.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

 

 

I understand your point of view, Craig, but I wonder how different this is from folk 50 years ago converting Tri-ang Clerestories into all sorts of other companies' panelled coaches?

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I find the sound effects one makes oneself to be the most effective - though it's wisest to keep these to the privacy of one's own railway room. 

TMI

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Just now, St Enodoc said:

I understand your point of view, Craig, but I wonder how different this is from folk 50 years ago converting Tri-ang Clerestories into all sorts of other companies' panelled coaches?

 

As you say nothing to prevent anyone getting their modelling tools out and using the "wrong" coaches as a basis to modify them into something closer to what they want. People seem to forget that for many years that was the only way to get something that resembled what you wanted, without building from scratch and we were pleased to be able to do that.

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I have to say I've not paid much attention to the Hattons' pre-Grouping RTR carriages. They're of no use to me, even if they were 'accurate'. 

 

Knowing the Hattons' management team quite well, I'm sure that team has made a business-based, commercial decision. Will the products sell, even if they're, at best, generic? If so, let's make them. 

 

Those who cannot 'stand them' need not buy them, and so on. 

 

I have to say, though, that a sort of opportunity has been missed. I assume none of the coaches in the range is an actual model of any type. Perhaps if an actual type had been made (say, for the sake of argument, a GWR four-wheeler?), then it would have been 'right' for at least one application. 

 

I'm sure the whole lot will be beautifully-decorated, and find homes on many trainsets (note the single word - LB is a trainset). I'm sure many of the 'GNR'-liveried ones will go behind all those Stirling Singles. Rightly or wrongly!

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8 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I understand your point of view, Craig, but I wonder how different this is from folk 50 years ago converting Tri-ang Clerestories into all sorts of other companies' panelled coaches?

Interesting, John,

 

Were those old Tri-ang clerestories even right for GWR types?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Interesting, John,

 

Were those old Tri-ang clerestories even right for GWR types?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

No! But that didn't stop the likes of Peter Denny and Terry Gough converting them to representations (my emphasis) of GCR and LB&SCR coaches, for example. I even have one on the Mid-Cornwall Lines - a Camping Coach.

Edited by St Enodoc
Speling
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While I am in the if you don't like it don't buy it camp, but I can see the attraction to many off these planned 4 and 6 wheelers after all a model is a representation.

 

If those in the can't do, shan't do and that will do camp buy them to enhance their representation of what they feel is a model of a railway and they are having fun doing so, then all the whining and whinging by us purist ain't gonna change a thing. In fact we will look as daft to them as they do to us.

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I've made some more progress with the N2 kit I showed earlier this week. As a reminder I bought this with very old fashioned wheels and motor and have replaced them with a DJH GB1 and Romford wheels; the body is mainly brass.

 

It's now run in and working smoothly. I have tested it's haulage capability and it can do everything I hoped for and more! Here is a video showing it on 17 coaches which is more than I will ever need it to do in practice. My Hornby ones just laughed when asked to pull the same train!

 

 

The paint job is not very smooth and I will want it in British Railways livery anyway, so the next job is a light sanding on the flat surfaces, tough up the paint and line and number up as a KX 1950s loco. 

 

Andy

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1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

This was all done to death on the appropriate thread. It seems that people who didn't get much support on that one now wish to continue the discussion on this thread instead.

 

As "queensquare" says, there is an easy answer. If you don't like the product, don't buy it.

 

There are plenty of people out there who will be happy to get some "near enough" carriages to go behind their RTR pre-grouping loco. There will be a much smaller number who follow a specific company and would insist on having accurate models of their actual company carriages. It is clearly a commercial decision to make the project viable and they will be much better than the alternatives presently available.

 

I have been known to build a model or two and I like my models to be as "right" as I can get them but I choose not to act towards those who do things differently as if they are "just" playing toy trains.

I at least hadn't seen the other thread, so just reacted here.

I wasn't intending to criticise any buyer either (or get into the toy/model thing).

I just don't see the point of making them freelance. If people are happy to use 'near enough' carriages then fine, that's up to them, but why is it better if said carriages are freelance, would it be less acceptable if they were actual models of real other company's vehicles, whether just repainted or a base for conversion?

Is a freelance model in, eg, GNR livery any better than an LBSC or LSW coach in that livery?  (Actually LSW ones would have been quite good, they went all over the place secondhand, there was hardly a minor railway that didn't have one or two ex-LSW coaches).

Then as well as the 'freelance' market they would have had at least some 'accurate' market as well.

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13 minutes ago, johnarcher said:

I at least hadn't seen the other thread, so just reacted here.

I wasn't intending to criticise any buyer either (or get into the toy/model thing).

I just don't see the point of making them freelance. If people are happy to use 'near enough' carriages then fine, that's up to them, but why is it better if said carriages are freelance, would it be less acceptable if they were actual models of real other company's vehicles, whether just repainted or a base for conversion?

Is a freelance model in, eg, GNR livery any better than an LBSC or LSW coach in that livery?  (Actually LSW ones would have been quite good, they went all over the place secondhand, there was hardly a minor railway that didn't have one or two ex-LSW coaches).

Then as well as the 'freelance' market they would have had at least some 'accurate' market as well.

 

Precisely !!!!!!!!!!!!!  What on earth is the point of a 'right-for-nothing' coach?

 

If, as we are told, there is a substantial market for fictitious coaches in 'sort-of' correct liveries, there must be a greater market for prototypical coaches in prototypical and fictitious liveries.

 

...... or is the thinking that, as the coaches are correct for nothing, everybody who buys them runs coaches that are as incorrect as mine? (So that makes it somehow OK).

 

The strategy for this project immediately rules out sales to those who would have purchased a prototypical coach in its correct livery.

 

Muddled thinking, IMHO.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

It is not like me to be critical of what others do but haven't you built the top one upside down?


Ozzie rules mate.

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Hello Tony. In the spirit of show and tell, I've just spent 5 hours painting the sea (it was quite a small brush!). This was my first effort - ever, in any capacity - with artist's acrylics, and I'm pleased at how it's come out. (Obviously I haven't added a gloss finish yet - I will do that over the next few days). There will, in time, be a lot more painting to do - do you have any hints or tips for a complete novice such as I?

Regards,
Gavin

IMG_3976.JPG

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