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Tony Wright

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I suppose all prices are relative, and near £320.00 for a scratch-built N2 seems exceptional value to me at today's prices. Granted, it would have all nickel silver-tyred drivers and a modern can motor/gearbox combination, brakes and all the detail required of the RTR model equivalents of today. The paint job on the old model in question was of a high order (fully-lined LNER black), so, for the sake of argument - what a great phrase - if I were to scratch-build an equivalent today, with a Rathbone/Haynes-standard paint finish, the price would be well in excess of three times £300.00+!

 

But why would I, or why would anyone ask me to.................... scratch-build an N2 in OO today?

 

1094016687_N213.jpg.bdb67abe48d2f5ade353858d3fa5c88e.jpg

 

Airfix body, detailed, renumbered and slightly weathered, with its old (and awful) original chassis chucked away, Comet frames, Markits wheels and a DJH motor/gearbox combination. I admit, it does need a new smokebox dart.

 

1845472908_N212.jpg.6cfa6016ae762f52a3bb7cb4d9dc909e.jpg

 

And who'd contemplate scratch-building a B1 as well today as well? Modified/detailed/renumbered/weathered Hornby B1 alongside.

 

The current Hornby N2 does not need a replacement chassis now. 

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A bit more progress on my GN box. Just 2 big windows to do, one of which will be semi-open. I've then got to put in the two windows in the eaves and the two for the weights room at the bottom. Then it'll be down to building the steps and toilet, adding walking boards and handrails, fire buckets board and buckets. It really has been a case of trying to improve a sow's ear and whilst it's no silk purse, it's getting to the plastic purse standard. I must admit that before I assembled the warped and twisted sides, it was a toss up whether I chucked it away and started again but , on reflection, I thought that it's better to proceed and see what lessons need learning.

 

IMG_4176_rdcd.jpg.18241cfaed442d49336923119ba87aaa.jpg

 

On another topic, I'm closing in on deciding a name for my layout. When I was little, my brother took me to a place near home called Hempshill. (pronounced sh, not hemps hill). It was just east of Nuthall sidings (we lived at Nuthall) where we watched the trains go by - pretty well every day. Although the terrain on my layout doesn't quite correspond, (the cutting was less deep at Hempshill) and of course there wasn't a station there, it fits many of the other things on my list. I do regret now not doing an actual place but as I originally intended to do Kimberley (but I got beaten to it by Ilkeston MRS), I figured it was best to do a bit of an amalgam of two or three or stations on the line. So there are elements of West Hallam and Kimberley in the layout so far and the signal box is based on Breadsall. 

 

Finally, couple of people I know are struggling with their mental health. It's been making me realise more and more that we're all so lucky to have a hobby like this.

 

Best wishes 

 

Clem

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40 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

In the historic record list on that link, inflation appears to take off from the end of WW2 with a peak of 24.2% in 1975. However that was topped by 25.2% in 1917 and 36.5% in 1800. Thank goodness we don't appear to have suffered from hyper-inflation.

 

Interesting. I definitely recall inflation being higher than credit card interest rates, which led to a short-lived credit boom. Perhaps that was measured against a different index.

 

My reference to the 70s was of course in the context of The Johnster's comment regarding the last 50 years.

 

1800 and 1917 were in wartime, which probably had something to do with it.

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31 minutes ago, Clem said:

A bit more progress on my GN box. Just 2 big windows to do, one of which will be semi-open. I've then got to put in the two windows in the eaves and the two for the weights room at the bottom. Then it'll be down to building the steps and toilet, adding walking boards and handrails, fire buckets board and buckets. It really has been a case of trying to improve a sow's ear and whilst it's no silk purse, it's getting to the plastic purse standard. I must admit that before I assembled the warped and twisted sides, it was a toss up whether I chucked it away and started again but , on reflection, I thought that it's better to proceed and see what lessons need learning.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/IMG_4176_rdcd.jpg.18241cfaed442d49336923119ba87aaa.jpg

 

On another topic, I'm closing in on deciding a name for my layout. When I was little, my brother took me to a place near home called Hempshill. (pronounced sh, not hemps hill). It was just east of Nuthall sidings (we lived at Nuthall) where we watched the trains go by - pretty well every day. Although the terrain on my layout doesn't quite correspond, (the cutting was less deep at Hempshill) and of course there wasn't a station there, it fits many of the other things on my list. I do regret now not doing an actual place but as I originally intended to do Kimberley (but I got beaten to it by Ilkeston MRS), I figured it was best to do a bit of an amalgam of two or three or stations on the line. So there are elements of West Hallam and Kimberley in the layout so far and the signal box is based on Breadsall. 

 

Finally, couple of people I know are struggling with their mental health. It's been making me realise more and more that we're all so lucky to have a hobby like this.

 

Best wishes 

 

Clem

Clem, if it's not quite Hempshill, how about Hempshall?

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44 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I suppose all prices are relative, and near £320.00 for a scratch-built N2 seems exceptional value to me at today's prices. Granted, it would have all nickel silver-tyred drivers and a modern can motor/gearbox combination, brakes and all the detail required of the RTR model equivalents of today. The paint job on the old model in question was of a high order (fully-lined LNER black), so, for the sake of argument - what a great phrase - if I were to scratch-build an equivalent today, with a Rathbone/Haynes-standard paint finish, the price would be well in excess of three times £300.00+!

 

But why would I, or why would anyone ask me to.................... scratch-build an N2 in OO today?

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/1094016687_N213.jpg.bdb67abe48d2f5ade353858d3fa5c88e.jpg

 

Airfix body, detailed, renumbered and slightly weathered, with its old (and awful) original chassis chucked away, Comet frames, Markits wheels and a DJH motor/gearbox combination. I admit, it does need a new smokebox dart.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/1845472908_N212.jpg.6cfa6016ae762f52a3bb7cb4d9dc909e.jpg

 

And who'd contemplate scratch-building a B1 as well today as well? Modified/detailed/renumbered/weathered Hornby B1 alongside.

 

The current Hornby N2 does not need a replacement chassis now. 

Hello Tony

 

It is a good question, why would anyone want to scratch build a loco these days? Because they might enjoy making it.

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28 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Interesting. I definitely recall inflation being higher than credit card interest rates, which led to a short-lived credit boom. Perhaps that was measured against a different index.

 

Inflation rates and credit card interest rates are, of course, very different. One is commercially set and the other is the result of economic conditions and government behaviour/policy. It is probably easier to avoid CC interest by not borrowing money that way, although with high inflation you might not be able to afford necessary goods so are forced to borrow. 

 

Mortgage rates are also commercially set (allegedly based on BofE rates) which I recall the highest I ever paid being 15%. The comparative current very low mortgage rates helps make the very high house prices a little more affordable. Beer was 25p a pint in 1975, now it's touching £5, more than twice the compounded inflation rate figure for that period. But I guess it's all relative and not a great deal to do with model trains.

 

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46 minutes ago, DougN said:

I sat down to do more on a Finney V2 

 

Not bad progress considering you purchased it on the 8th Feb 2015 :D (beating Horsetan to it as well)

 

Its good to see it going together :good_mini: 

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Dave there has been a few other things happen since 2015... in fact there was a D17 which I had for 8 years that has just about got finished this year.., only some painting to complete. I always seem to have more than one thing on the go at any one time. Currently the list includes a Dave Bradwell J39 that I have had for a month and a bit, a Neilson mineral tank that I have had on the go for about 6 months! IMG_0740.JPG.76a5dc8645ad497a893aad19b45f9066.JPG

 

this has been a bit of a challange due to being commenced by another modeller who can no longer model. It was mostly well built but didn't have running clearances to any of the bearings or a motor and gearbox. So once these were sorted it runs quite nicely now. How ever I felt it was time for the V2 to take some time on the work bench! 

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6 minutes ago, DougN said:

I always seem to have more than one thing on the go at any one time.

 

Just a few?  I've let things run away and now have too many on the go, Some of the GN American Pullman cars with all the casting that goes with those,  as well as 2 GN E1 2-4-0's.   At least the E1's have reached the painting stage, but they've joined 4 other locos that need painting as well!

 

Good to see the V2 going together, looks good so far and you've got further than the previous owner :good_mini:

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

IBut why would I, or why would anyone ask me to.................... scratch-build an N2 in OO today?

 

Airfix body, detailed, renumbered and slightly weathered, with its old (and awful) original chassis chucked away, Comet frames, Markits wheels and a DJH motor/gearbox combination. I admit, it does need a new smokebox dart.

 

And who'd contemplate scratch-building a B1 as well today as well? Modified/detailed/renumbered/weathered Hornby B1 alongside.

 

Hum. The B1 has nice crisp front frames above footplate level but was the Great Northern really in the habit of rounding the top of the frames to a D-profile where they protrude above footplate level? I can see it could be a H&S feature, avoiding grazed shins when clambering about opening the smokebox door... Also, lifting holes?

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55 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Hum. The B1 has nice crisp front frames above footplate level but was the Great Northern really in the habit of rounding the top of the frames to a D-profile where they protrude above footplate level? I can see it could be a H&S feature, avoiding grazed shins when clambering about opening the smokebox door... Also, lifting holes?

Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what you're on about.

 

For a start, the B1 (the originals built at Darlington) had more of the NER in them than the GN, and the frames' profiles seem to match the drawings and photos I've consulted.

 

Lifting holes? Yes, they're there.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

It is a good question, why would anyone want to scratch build a loco these days? Because they might enjoy making it.

An excellent answer, Clive,

 

I first scratch-built locos out of necessity - Thompson's Pacifics, a D49, K1, K4, O1 and so on, only to have better examples produced by the kit-makers. Which, in the main, I built, then sold on the 'inferior' scratch-built examples. There it stopped, and I've never taken the step of replacing my kit-built locos with RTR equivalents. 

 

All the various builds have been enjoyable. Much more, for instance, than the enjoyment derived from acquisition, by whatever means.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what you're on about.

 

For a start, the B1 (the originals built at Darlington) had more of the NER in them than the GN, and the frames' profiles seem to match the drawings and photos I've consulted.

 

Lifting holes? Yes, they're there.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Sorry, I was intending to compare the front frames of the old Airfix N2, which have the defects I mentioned, with the rather better front frames of the Hornby B1.

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4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Clem, if it's not quite Hempshill, how about Hempshall?

 

Lots of synonyms come to mind...

 

Potshill (sh rather than Pots Hill)

Dopeshill...

 

etc etc.

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what you're on about.

 

For a start, the B1 (the originals built at Darlington) had more of the NER in them than the GN, and the frames' profiles seem to match the drawings and photos I've consulted.

 

Lifting holes? Yes, they're there.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Afternoon Tony,


 I wouldn't say that the B1 had more NER than GNR in their make up. The boiler, valve gear, cylinders, frames, and the coupled wheels can definitely be traced back to the GN. The tender, the cab and the straight running board are probably the most prominent features derived from the NER. The bogie, mayby NE, or was it based on the B17 with a touch of LMS ?

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I was looking at the boiler handrail/s of the B1 and it suddenly struck me that they appear to be continuous from one side, past the smokebox to the other side. How (and why) did they manufacture and assemble that as one piece. Or is there a join somewhere I can't see.

 

Tim

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Sorry, I was intending to compare the front frames of the old Airfix N2, which have the defects I mentioned, with the rather better front frames of the Hornby B1.

Sorry, 

 

I misunderstood.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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12 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon Tony,


 I wouldn't say that the B1 had more NER than GNR in their make up. The boiler, valve gear, cylinders, frames, and the coupled wheels can definitely be traced back to the GN. The tender, the cab and the straight running board are probably the most prominent features derived from the NER. The bogie, mayby NE, or was it based on the B17 with a touch of LMS ?

Hmm...............

 

Without splitting hairs - a 4-6-0 (a type never built by the GN), in fact, until the advent of the BR Standard Vs, a wheel arrangement never built at Doncaster. Definitely, an NER smokebox door on the originals as well. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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10 minutes ago, Hitchin Junction said:

I was looking at the boiler handrail/s of the B1 and it suddenly struck me that they appear to be continuous from one side, past the smokebox to the other side. How (and why) did they manufacture and assemble that as one piece. Or is there a join somewhere I can't see.

 

Tim

Definitely in one piece, and why not, Tim?

 

It's the same way I make all my locos with a continuous handrail in a rising arc above the smokebox door. 

 

1503587823_B1201.jpg.350b1d42b8fd70bb5996739e85eda565.jpg

 

831352924_BRMLB12B12onLeicester.jpg.d02e045073b279b5de3f2cf33755ccca.jpg

 

Some have two pillars on the smokebox front ring.

 

1237170778_DMRK1B.jpg.93c169c950072f40414ab477dbabff20.jpg

 

1590749433_HornbyK1R3242improvements16.jpg.19e50594667aaf2c4f41c0720e54e830.jpg

 

Some have just one.

 

How I make and fix these in place was explained in Right Tracks 1 and 2.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Tony,

 

Do you remember the D.210 twin-art that I showed you in brass at Woking? Well it’s now finished and I’m pleased with the way it’s come out. It is a mix of Mousa sides and parts from 247, Comet and MJT. Here is a picture of the finished twin with my N7 which is quite old but recently weathered ( SE Finecast with Bachmann chassis).

909EA4A0-299E-4D46-B3A4-F71FBDE1B9A0.jpeg.ff7452f0a576ef0a70f701269aa8d572.jpeg

 

 

More details are on my workbench thread starting here

Regards

 

Andy

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30 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Do you remember the D.210 twin-art that I showed you in brass at Woking? Well it’s now finished and I’m pleased with the way it’s come out. It is a mix of Mousa sides and parts from 247, Comet and MJT. Here is a picture of the finished twin with my N7 which is quite old but recently weathered ( SE Finecast with Bachmann chassis).

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/909EA4A0-299E-4D46-B3A4-F71FBDE1B9A0.jpeg.ff7452f0a576ef0a70f701269aa8d572.jpeg

 

 

More details are on my workbench thread starting here

Regards

 

Andy

I do indeed, Andy,

 

Excellent work - thanks for showing us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

But why would I, or why would anyone ask me to.................... scratch-build an N2 in OO today?

 

 

 

And who'd contemplate scratch-building a B1 as well today as well? Modified/detailed/renumbered/weathered Hornby B1 alongside.

 

I couldn't speak for you ... or indeed anyone else....

 

But I fully intend to scratch build a loco in the not too distant future, and I care not one jot whether it is available either in RTR or in a good quality kit. On the one hand I want to try my hand and see if I can do it .... and on the other, if successful I am pretty certain that the self satisfaction will likely be beyond anything I've experienced to date. 

 

I already know that from a simple pleasure standpoint I prefer scratch building my wagons to constructing a kit .... though I admit I use a whole gamut of etched/cast/turned bits and pieces so there is nothing hair shirt about all of this.

 

Furthermore I want to have a go at designing my own etches and seeing what I can build from them - the excuse being the need for a tender currently not available for my Johnson 0-6-0 goods locos running circa 1902 on the peak line.

 

The downside of course is that I may not complete my layout in this lifetime .... but if this proves to be the case I will certainly have thoroughly enjoyed not getting there. :sarcastichand:

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More and more at shows now, when I'm demonstrating modelling techniques, I 'build' a plastic wagon kit. 

 

1761785460_Parksideex-LNERhorsebox.jpg.2131bbae433c8ab8af6694a4aef5dccb.jpg

 

I started this Parkside LNER horsebox at Spalding on Saturday morning, completing it this morning. Though I've weathered the chassis, the bodywork still needs a touch of toning down. 

 

Soldering complex metal kits together can seem a bit daunting, but the plastic wagon kit is a splendid introduction to the delights of personal model-making. I'd be astonished if even the least-experienced modellers could not build/paint/complete something as simple-to-put-together as this. 

 

Horseboxes would have been very common sights on the ECML in the period LB represents, what with so many famous racecourses on it or near to it. 

 

They'd often be at the front of passenger trains................

 

693948010_BachmannBRMk.jpg.d553b728a2f542eb5e46f8fa61d3c506.jpg

 

As with this Bachmann Mk.1 example; just the couplings changed, and weathered by me.

 

517395892_Hornbyex-LMSex-GWRhorseboxes.jpg.abb12e720b037fac8b1ca599266f93f7.jpg

 

There are two other horseboxes on LB, both Hornby ones (ex-LMS and ex-GWR respectively). After my changing the couplings, Richard Wilson weathered these. 

 

The current RTR horsebox examples are beautiful models, and superior to a kit-built equivalent. But, as has been said many times, that's not really the point. 

 

 

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Re the recent posts on scratchbuilding, I am firmly of the view that how one enjoys this wonderful hobby, and spends one's disposable income on it,  is entirely their own business. I do wonder, though, why, in general terms, one would scratchbuild  an N2, or indeed any other loco where a satisfactory RTR or kit exists when there are usually suitable prototypes which are missing from that canon. Surely the pleasure in construction is equally great, if no more so, if the result is something unique?

Just my opinion..others will differ.

 

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