jwealleans Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Have you tried Peter's Spares? He's had a number of parts which Hornby can't/won't supply manufactured in China. I've revived two T9s where the motor mount broke in half using a much more substantial brass casting from Peter. Mazak rot in the 1970s - my late father had a Trix Silver Link (the one with the yellow numbers). I tried to run it a few years ago and it barely limped along - when I looked closely one of the drivers had broken in half and I found I could crumble all the wheels to dust between my fingers. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2019 Mazak rot and L1 pony truck......been there , done it. I had no luck in getting a replacement from Hornby. I did get one , the last one, from Peter's Spares. My BR black one does look silly with a green front wheel, It will one day be painted black. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, jwealleans said: Have you tried Peter's Spares? He's had a number of parts which Hornby can't/won't supply manufactured in China. I've revived two T9s where the motor mount broke in half using a much more substantial brass casting from Peter. Mazak rot in the 1970s - my late father had a Trix Silver Link (the one with the yellow numbers). I tried to run it a few years ago and it barely limped along - when I looked closely one of the drivers had broken in half and I found I could crumble all the wheels to dust between my fingers. At the time, Peter's Spares couldn't supply the replacement gears either. I eventually got a set from Lendons in Cardiff, then found that it was beyond my meagre skills to actually change them (and the replacement set didn't include the driving axle gear anyway). However, I have indeed used the Peter's replacement mount on my T9s. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) One of the occasional tasks I do for local BRMA members here in Adelaide is replace split gears on Hornby locos. To date I reckon I've done 2 Britannias (one was mine), a Duchess, Stanier 2-6-4T, and at least one West Country and Battle of Britain (original). I use what I consider to be a fairly generic Hornby pack of gears (they seem to fit most of the recent steam outline locos) which include two gears on the idler shaft and another for the driving axle. I only replace what is split and too date have found no issue in replacing the split gear, even if its on the driving axle. The axles have splines and its not difficult replacing them in the correct location on the axle. I haven't bought any packs recently but when I last bought four packs locally the only problem was waiting about 3 weeks for the model shop to get them from the wholesaler who was just around the corner and had them in stock as I had checked! I've also seen a number of locos with mazak rot in the chassis, particularly around the motor mount area which results in total failure of the chassis block. I had one of the early Class 31s with this issue and I noticed it when small cracks appeared at each corner of the loco body and upon removal both chassis ends broke off and when I tried to glue them back on more pieces simply broke away! Hornby did supply me with a replacement chassis some time ago but I've not bothered to take all the bits off the old one and fit them to the new block at this stage as I hardly ever run my BR period stock. Andrew Edited November 6, 2019 by Woodcock29 Typos 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 The Hornby L1 box is something that seemed pretty bad in my experience - I obtained a model where it had all front and rear buffers knocked off and the front and rear bogies both smashed - the reason being that the loco should have two L-shaped parts attached to its base when in the box - otherwise it can hammer up and down the polystyrene tray and smash itself up. Fortunately, I replaced all the parts with spares from Peter's Spares and the loco is as good as new, and significantly less cost than an intact loco. But really - who actually thinks up these hairbrain ideas - designing a box to protect the loco is hardly much of an engineering challenge.... Cheers, Alan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 As I am constantly adding to my very large (66,000 +) collection of BR-era loco photos, I have ample opportunity to study colour photos of BR steam locos; and particularly those in a 'weathered' condition. I also have my recollections of the period in question. What strikes me about so many of the photos of 'weathered' steam locos here on RMweb is that the finish is far too light coloured - many look as if they have been driven across a ploughed field or a tank training course !! This applies equally to RTR and hand-finished 'weathered' models. The 'weathering' that adhered to steam era steam locos was largely the products of the combustion of coal - either from the loco itself or from the domestic and industrial fires that surrounded the railway. This residue was dark in colour - shades of dark grey; not the desert-dust shades that are so often used to represent 'weathering' on model locos. There were few sources of light coloured discolouration - one would have been from the track, but only if it was poorly maintained and 'pumping' liquified sub-soil from beneath the ballast. Another would be ash dust - but, again, that would have been grey in colour, and would mostly have blown away outside the immediate shed environment. I wonder if the misapprehension of 'weathering' in the steam era arises from what we see on present-day trains - which is much lighter, and lacks the overwhelming coal combustion by-products of years gone by ? Synthetic brake pads / shoes produce an entirely different residue from the former cast-iron on steel braking systems. What I saw in my trainspotting childhood and youth was that the livery elements gradually disappeared under an overall coating of dark grey 'grot'. If you were lucky, someone had made a token wipe of the loco number, so that the crew could identify their allocated steed, but on all but the top-line locos, that was it. It was still a blackish loco; (even if it was supposed to be dark green); but beyond that it was far too often impossible to detect any lining or crest. Just my personal view, but my eyes tell me that far too many 'weathered' steam loco models in no way match the photographic evidence from the time of their prototypes. It's not as if there aren't sufficient photos on-line to study - I suspect that many modellers and RTR suppliers reproduce their own concept of what weathering looked like, rather than the reality of the time in question. Please - work from colour photos, and replace the light earth shades with greys - mostly dark. Regards, John Isherwood. 5 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 If anybody has a split plastic / nylon gear that isn't available as a replacement part, one way out of the problem would be to remove the gear, superglue the parts together tightly and accurately, make yourself a silicone rubber mould from the repaired "master" part, and cast yourself an almost inexhaustible supply of spare new gears in resin. They may not last in the way that something in an "ideal" material might, but at least you'd have a working model again. And NO, I'm not volunteering...... Not a useful suggestion for those who can't / won't of course. 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 46 minutes ago, cctransuk said: What strikes me about so many of the photos of 'weathered' steam locos here on RMweb is that the finish is far too light coloured - many look as if they have been driven across a ploughed field or a tank training course !! This applies equally to RTR and hand-finished 'weathered' models. I beg to differ, John. For the line I'm modelling, most of the locos were based at Colwick and suffered from the whitish staining of the hard water and of course, ash. If anything, I find weathering on models is often too dark and too mono-tonal and too based on that brownish weathering mix that the RTR guys employ. (I must own up to also being very guilty of the mono-tonal effect usually rushing to try to finish a model off). However, I have been very impressed with the standard of weathering on LB. Some very well observed and subtle shades to the fore. My collection of colour photos may be more limited than yours John, but I do try to work from photos and they often appear to show this lighter misting of grey with just a touch of brown. Of course the very dark shades of grey/black are also present in places. Part of the issue may be simply the much greater area of surface exposed to daylight on the real thing, which in itself tends to show up lighter compared to the small area of a model but colour compensation by weathering lighter surely gives the desired effect? I know the whole colour issue is pretty contentious but for me it's just about trying to make it look right. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Clem said: I beg to differ, John. For the line I'm modelling, most of the locos were based at Colwick and suffered from the whitish staining of the hard water and of course, ash. If anything, I find weathering on models is often too dark and too mono-tonal and too based on that brownish weathering mix that the RTR guys employ. (I must own up to also being very guilty of the mono-tonal effect usually rushing to try to finish a model off). However, I have been very impressed with the standard of weathering on LB. Some very well observed and subtle shades to the fore. My collection of colour photos may be more limited than yours John, but I do try to work from photos and they often appear to show this lighter misting of grey with just a touch of brown. Of course the very dark shades of grey/black are also present in places. Part of the issue may be simply the much greater area of surface exposed to daylight on the real thing, which in itself tends to show up lighter compared to the small area of a model but colour compensation by weathering lighter surely gives the desired effect? I know the whole colour issue is pretty contentious but for me it's just about trying to make it look right. Clem, I wouldn't disagree that, in some areas, a lighter shade of grey was locally common. The essence of my point, though, is that the widespread use of sandy shades is simply not representative of steam era steam loco 'weathering'. Regards, John Isherwood. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2019 Don't forget that the majority of early colour photos were taken in bright sunlight - very often the "weathering" turns out to be the reflection of the sky, especially along the tops of boilers. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2019 Re Hornby L1 pony trucks, I've got four of them and while I don't think there were any derailments, I did find it disconcerting to see the pony truck wagging about in a most ungainly fashion. I've used two methods to correct this. Apologies to those who may have seen this before, but others may find it useful. The easy way: A piece of phosphor bronze wire; one end tucked between the 'tails' of the coupling (users of other couplings may have to think of alternatives!), the loop in the other end trapped under the first keeper plate retaining screw. No modifications at all to the loco! The more difficult way: Guides cut off the pony truck, and a new pivot arm bolted to the remains of the pony truck. New tapped pivot hole drilled into the chassis block; front of keeper plate cut away to accommodate this, and pat of cylinder block moulding also removed to provide clearance. Position of new pivot established per Baldry's Rule: https://www.scalefour.org/resources/baldry.html To be honest, now they're running I can't see any advantage to doing it the more difficult way! I've not come across any mazak rot (yet) but on one which was running poorly recently, I fond the front motor retainer (that fits over the gears) was very loose - I don't think I'd ever loosened it. Tightened up, and running was a lot better. 4 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowanj Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Just for interest, this photo illustrates why I "need" to have a combination of RTR , usually modified, and kits to represent the range of locos which operate in my layout location. The Bachmann A2 is simply re-numbered and fitted with a double chimney to become 52B's Bronzino, As it was well regarded at Heaton, it was usually cleaned, but probably not as much as it looks in the photo, The V2 is a real mash up, Bachmann cab, Triang A3 boiler, Bachmann split chassis and GBL footplate. The A8 is a modified DJH kit. I suppose my definition of "scratchbuilding" is a bit old - fashioned, in that I think of it as constructing the model, for example a loco, from the raw material, be it brass. plasticard, or whatever, with only the wheels and motor sourced, plus other odds and sods as necessary. I only tried it once..... But I do believe that the results of the work that went into these locos, for all their faults, was sufficient for me to believe they are "mine", and I had fun doing it. 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted November 6, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 6, 2019 4 hours ago, cctransuk said: As I am constantly adding to my very large (66,000 +) collection of BR-era loco photos, I have ample opportunity to study colour photos of BR steam locos; and particularly those in a 'weathered' condition. I also have my recollections of the period in question. What strikes me about so many of the photos of 'weathered' steam locos here on RMweb is that the finish is far too light coloured - many look as if they have been driven across a ploughed field or a tank training course !! This applies equally to RTR and hand-finished 'weathered' models. The 'weathering' that adhered to steam era steam locos was largely the products of the combustion of coal - either from the loco itself or from the domestic and industrial fires that surrounded the railway. This residue was dark in colour - shades of dark grey; not the desert-dust shades that are so often used to represent 'weathering' on model locos. There were few sources of light coloured discolouration - one would have been from the track, but only if it was poorly maintained and 'pumping' liquified sub-soil from beneath the ballast. Another would be ash dust - but, again, that would have been grey in colour, and would mostly have blown away outside the immediate shed environment. I wonder if the misapprehension of 'weathering' in the steam era arises from what we see on present-day trains - which is much lighter, and lacks the overwhelming coal combustion by-products of years gone by ? Synthetic brake pads / shoes produce an entirely different residue from the former cast-iron on steel braking systems. What I saw in my trainspotting childhood and youth was that the livery elements gradually disappeared under an overall coating of dark grey 'grot'. If you were lucky, someone had made a token wipe of the loco number, so that the crew could identify their allocated steed, but on all but the top-line locos, that was it. It was still a blackish loco; (even if it was supposed to be dark green); but beyond that it was far too often impossible to detect any lining or crest. Just my personal view, but my eyes tell me that far too many 'weathered' steam loco models in no way match the photographic evidence from the time of their prototypes. It's not as if there aren't sufficient photos on-line to study - I suspect that many modellers and RTR suppliers reproduce their own concept of what weathering looked like, rather than the reality of the time in question. Please - work from colour photos, and replace the light earth shades with greys - mostly dark. Regards, John Isherwood. 'many look as if they have been driven across a ploughed field or a tank training course' How true!!!!! Some more examples of degrees of weathering................. Whether one would apply limescale streaks from the washout plugs on otherwise pristine locos is a moot point. Or 'burn' the lower smokebox door, or squirt emulsified oil all over the place, and so on..... As always, observe prototype pictures. And (all), please observe copyright restrictions. Regards, Tony. 24 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Wonderful photos of a lost era - Thanks for posting Tony - brightened up a dull day !! Brit15 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 11 minutes ago, APOLLO said: Wonderful photos of a lost era - Thanks for posting Tony - brightened up a dull day !! Brit15 Many thanks, Though they're not my work........................ Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2019 This shows the ‘crabbing’ Pony truck on Hornby’s L1, coming off a 24” radius curve. It is a strange dynamic of the design that the crabbing effect is much more pronounced when the pony is being pushed by the locomotive. When running bunker-first and pulling the pony, the effect is barely noticeable. 31A’s solution is an elegant fix for forward running though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) Re Hornby's L1. On a friend's loco the front bogie derailment was consistent, specifically when coming off a curve directly into facing (Peco) point it wanted to track onto the curve. We cured it by adding a .010 shim to the inside of the straight check-rail. The B to B was correct. We also added just a touch of Pb to the bogie. I have found the .010' shim to be a fairly common solution to derailing issues at Peco points. For example, another friend also had a facing point coming off a curve, in this case sometimes the third sometimes the 4th coach in an HST set would try to continue around the curve. The .010" shim worked there too. What was a pain was that the motor magnet was powerful enough to activate track mounted reed switches. That we were not able to cure. Edited November 6, 2019 by Theakerr Added note re magnet 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2019 10 hours ago, Lecorbusier said: I was watching a documentary on the singer sowing machine ... and the early 20th century treadle and hand crank models are still being refurbished and shipped out for regular use in Africa and other developing countries. I know a fair few people in the UK who still swear by them. ....And websites such as this one will enable you to find out just when that Antique Machine was made: http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-sewing-machine-serial-number-database.html Mine dates from Jan-June 1910, Clydebank, Scotland. With not a sign of a plastic gear anywhere to be seen. Still works a treat and gets used from time to time by yours truly. Sticking my mitts anywhere near a needle driven by a leccy motor at a million miles an hour doesn't feature on my Radar, no chance..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrg1 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 7 hours ago, gr.king said: If anybody has a split plastic / nylon gear that isn't available as a replacement part, one way out of the problem would be to remove the gear, superglue the parts together tightly and accurately, make yourself a silicone rubber mould from the repaired "master" part, and cast yourself an almost inexhaustible supply of spare new gears in resin. They may not last in the way that something in an "ideal" material might, but at least you'd have a working model again. And NO, I'm not volunteering...... Not a useful suggestion for those who can't / won't of course. Here's a perfect application for 3D printing. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 I have a perfect solution for the woes of the Hornby L1. Build an A5 tank, they are the bestest. Alternatively, If that is a little bit scary, I'm told that weathering usually hides any faults. Try disguising the pony truck with black and white weathering powders. Not coloured powders mind you, that wont work and will look very silly. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lecorbusier Posted November 6, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, polybear said: ....And websites such as this one will enable you to find out just when that Antique Machine was made: http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-sewing-machine-serial-number-database.html Mine dates from Jan-June 1910, Clydebank, Scotland. With not a sign of a plastic gear anywhere to be seen. Still works a treat and gets used from time to time by yours truly. Sticking my mitts anywhere near a needle driven by a leccy motor at a million miles an hour doesn't feature on my Radar, no chance..... I bought a hand driven one from 1911 of e-bay for a tenner .... stripped it down and refurbished it and am now using it to do the upholstery on my VW Camper ... excellent machine .... everything beautifully machined from steel and another couple of hundred years use left in it I would say. ...... before and after..... 20 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2019 How come A3s always seemed to weep from the washout plugs and leave a nasty stain down the nice shiny paintwork? 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 If the boiler has been filled in a hard water area (and where the water has not been treated) getting the streaks of limescale after a washout was pretty much inevitable, even if it was wiped down, the area could appear clean, but the streaks would reappear as it dried. It does seem to be more common on eastern lines and even more common on models! It is a bit of a pet-hate of mine, the idea that every weathering job, regardless of the area of operation, has to feature lime streaks. I haven't got as far as shouting "Streak" at the sight, but I'm close. Alan 1 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted November 6, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Lecorbusier said: That could be the epitaph for today's world .... high on appearance but with a heavy dose of inbuilt obsolescence. I was watching a documentary on the singer sowing machine ... and the early 20th century treadle and hand crank models are still being refurbished and shipped out for regular use in Africa and other developing countries. I know a fair few people in the UK who still swear by them. Progress eh! Funny you should mention the Singer Sewing machine. I spent a tenner on a hand cranked one a couple of years back for the daughter, and I regularly seem to get it out to repair items of clothing. Her pair of tracksuit bottoms for school yesterday (They had been worn once and the stitching had come apart) and then three pairs of hi-vis orange work trousers that needed odd repairs too. Parts are easy to get hold of and it really does purr like a sawing machine. Every home should have one! Andy G Edit: Mine is a baby, its from about 1932, so hardly run in yet! Edited November 6, 2019 by uax6 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted November 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2019 10 hours ago, 31A said: Does 60070 have a spelling mistake in its name “Gladiat*or? Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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