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Tony Wright

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46 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

What strikes me about so many of the photos of 'weathered' steam locos here on RMweb is that the finish is far too light coloured - many look as if they have been driven across a ploughed field or a tank training course !! This applies equally to RTR and hand-finished 'weathered' models.

I beg to differ, John. For the line I'm modelling, most of the locos were based at Colwick and suffered from the whitish staining of the hard water and of course, ash. If anything, I find weathering on models is often too dark and too mono-tonal and too based on that brownish weathering mix that the RTR guys employ.  (I must own up to also being very guilty of the mono-tonal effect usually rushing to try to finish a model off). However, I have been very impressed with the standard of weathering on LB. Some very well observed and subtle shades to the fore.

 

My collection of colour photos may be more limited than yours John, but I do try to work from photos and they often appear to show this lighter misting of grey with just a touch of brown. Of course the very dark shades of grey/black are also present in places. Part of the issue may be simply the much greater area of surface exposed to daylight on the real thing, which in itself tends to show up lighter compared to the small area of a model but colour compensation by weathering lighter surely gives the desired effect? I know the whole colour issue is pretty contentious but for me it's just about trying to make it look right.

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1 minute ago, Clem said:

I beg to differ, John. For the line I'm modelling, most of the locos were based at Colwick and suffered from the whitish staining of the hard water and of course, ash. If anything, I find weathering on models is often too dark and too mono-tonal and too based on that brownish weathering mix that the RTR guys employ.  (I must own up to also being very guilty of the mono-tonal effect usually rushing to try to finish a model off). However, I have been very impressed with the standard of weathering on LB. Some very well observed and subtle shades to the fore.

 

My collection of colour photos may be more limited than yours John, but I do try to work from photos and they often appear to show this lighter misting of grey with just a touch of brown. Of course the very dark shades of grey/black are also present in places. Part of the issue may be simply the much greater area of surface exposed to daylight on the real thing, which in itself tends to show up lighter compared to the small area of a model but colour compensation by weathering lighter surely gives the desired effect? I know the whole colour issue is pretty contentious but for me it's just about trying to make it look right.

 

Clem,

 

I wouldn't disagree that, in some areas, a lighter shade of grey was locally common.

 

The essence of my point, though, is that the widespread use of sandy shades is simply not representative of steam era steam loco 'weathering'.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Don't forget that the majority of early colour photos were taken in bright sunlight - very often the "weathering" turns out to be the reflection of the sky, especially along the tops of boilers.

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Re Hornby L1 pony trucks, I've got four of them and while I don't think there were any derailments, I did find it disconcerting to see the pony truck wagging about in a most ungainly fashion.

 

I've used two methods to correct this.  Apologies to those who may have seen this before, but others may find it useful.

 

 The easy way:

 

IMG_2177.RMweb.jpg.e3c1282d5f412f555c1133b38ec9c025.jpg

 

A piece of phosphor bronze wire; one end tucked between the 'tails' of the coupling (users of other couplings may have to think of alternatives!), the loop in the other end trapped under the first keeper plate retaining screw.  No modifications at all to the loco!

 

The more difficult way:

 

610349092_67757ponymod16_06_14.jpg.e8ed68c969b6d106f391c48555672b0d.jpg

 

Guides cut off the pony truck, and a new pivot arm bolted to the remains of the pony truck.  New tapped pivot hole drilled into the chassis block; front of keeper plate cut away to accommodate this, and pat of cylinder block moulding also removed to provide clearance.

 

Position of new pivot established per Baldry's Rule:

 

https://www.scalefour.org/resources/baldry.html

 

770054702_L1wheelbasediagram.jpg.6c35c7c67c9d54188bdaf1b88cef9366.jpg

 

To be honest, now they're running I can't see any advantage to doing it the more difficult way!

 

I've not come across any mazak rot (yet) but on one which was running poorly recently, I fond the front motor retainer (that fits over the gears) was very loose - I don't think I'd ever loosened it.  Tightened up, and running was a lot better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just for interest, this photo illustrates why I "need" to have a combination of RTR , usually modified, and kits to represent the range of locos which operate in my layout location. The Bachmann A2 is simply re-numbered and fitted with a double chimney to become 52B's Bronzino, As it was well regarded at Heaton, it was usually cleaned, but probably not as much as it looks in the photo, The V2 is a real mash up, Bachmann cab, Triang A3 boiler, Bachmann split chassis and GBL footplate. The A8 is a modified DJH kit. 

I suppose my definition of "scratchbuilding" is a bit old - fashioned, in that I think of it as constructing the model, for example a loco, from the raw material, be it brass. plasticard, or whatever, with only the wheels and motor sourced, plus other odds and sods as necessary. I only tried it once.....

But I do believe that the results of the work that went into these locos, for all their faults, was sufficient for me to believe they are "mine", and I had fun doing it.

 

IMG_20191106_135437.jpg

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Wonderful photos of a lost era - Thanks for posting Tony - brightened up a dull day !!

 

Brit15

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11 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Wonderful photos of a lost era - Thanks for posting Tony - brightened up a dull day !!

 

Brit15

Many thanks,

 

Though they're not my work........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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IMG_2900.jpg.11e5613c4ef9b8bc4985440dea3c89d8.jpg

This shows the ‘crabbing’ Pony truck on Hornby’s L1, coming off a 24” radius curve.  It is a strange dynamic of the design that the crabbing effect is much more pronounced when the pony is being pushed by the locomotive.  When running bunker-first and pulling the pony, the effect is barely noticeable.  

 

31A’s solution is an elegant fix for forward running though.

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Re Hornby's L1.  On a friend's loco the front bogie derailment was consistent, specifically when coming off a curve directly into facing (Peco) point it wanted to track onto the curve.   We cured it by adding a .010 shim to the inside of the straight check-rail.  The B to B was correct.  We also added just a touch of Pb to the bogie.  I have found the .010' shim to be a fairly common solution to derailing issues at Peco points.  For example, another friend also had a facing point coming off a curve, in this case sometimes the third sometimes the 4th coach in an HST set would try to continue around the curve.  The .010" shim worked there too.   What was a pain was that the motor magnet was powerful enough to activate track mounted reed switches.  That we were not able to cure.

Edited by Theakerr
Added note re magnet
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10 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

I was watching a documentary on the singer sowing machine ... and the early 20th century treadle and hand crank models are still being refurbished and shipped out for regular use in Africa and other developing countries. I know a fair few people in the UK who still swear by them.

 

 

....And websites such as this one will enable you to find out just when that Antique Machine was made:

http://ismacs.net/singer_sewing_machine_company/serial-numbers/singer-sewing-machine-serial-number-database.html

 

Mine dates from Jan-June 1910, Clydebank, Scotland.  With not a sign of a plastic gear anywhere to be seen.

Still works a treat and gets used from time to time by yours truly.  Sticking my mitts anywhere near a needle driven by a leccy motor at a million miles an hour doesn't feature on my Radar,  no chance.....

 

 

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7 hours ago, gr.king said:

If anybody has a split plastic / nylon gear that isn't available as a replacement part, one way out of the problem would be to remove the gear, superglue the parts together tightly and accurately, make yourself a silicone rubber mould from the repaired "master" part, and cast yourself an almost inexhaustible supply of spare new gears in resin. They may not last in the way that something in an "ideal" material might, but at least you'd have a working model again. And NO, I'm not volunteering......

 

Not a useful suggestion for those who can't / won't of course.

Here's a perfect application for 3D printing.

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I have a perfect solution for the woes of the Hornby L1. Build an A5 tank, they are the bestest.


Alternatively, If that is a little bit scary,  I'm told that weathering usually hides any faults. Try disguising the pony truck with black and white weathering powders. Not coloured powders mind you, that wont work and will look very silly.

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How come A3s always seemed to weep from the washout plugs and leave a nasty stain down the nice shiny paintwork?

 

432162631_600707RMweb.jpg.aa2cc8f4c6196522f4caf232f47834d5.jpg

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If the boiler has been filled in a hard water area (and where the water has not been treated) getting the streaks of limescale after a washout was pretty much inevitable, even if it was wiped down, the area could appear clean, but the streaks would reappear as it dried.  It does seem to be more common on eastern lines and even more common on models!  It is a bit of a pet-hate of mine, the idea that every weathering job, regardless of the area of operation, has to feature lime streaks.  I haven't got as far as shouting "Streak" at the sight, but I'm close.

 

Alan

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13 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

That could be the epitaph for today's world .... high on appearance but with a heavy dose of inbuilt obsolescence.

 

I was watching a documentary on the singer sowing machine ... and the early 20th century treadle and hand crank models are still being refurbished and shipped out for regular use in Africa and other developing countries. I know a fair few people in the UK who still swear by them.

 

Progress eh!

 

Funny you should mention the Singer Sewing machine. I spent a tenner on a hand cranked one a couple of years back for the daughter, and I regularly seem to get it out to repair items of clothing. Her pair of tracksuit bottoms for school yesterday (They had been worn once and the stitching had come apart) and then three pairs of hi-vis orange work trousers that needed odd repairs too.

 

Parts are easy to get hold of and it really does purr like a sawing machine. Every home should have one!

 

Andy G

 

Edit: Mine is a baby, its from about 1932, so hardly run in yet!

Edited by uax6
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7 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Does 60070 have a spelling mistake in its name “Gladiat*or?
 

Tim

 

Non, c’est Gladiateur.

 

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10 hours ago, Buhar said:

It is a bit of a pet-hate of mine, the idea that every weathering job, regardless of the area of operation, has to feature lime streaks. 

 

I agree; I think 60070 is the only loco I've painted such a streak on and also think it is a bit of a cliche on weathered models, but looking at pictures of A3s like those Tony posted earlier, it struck me how often they seemed to have a streak down the firebox.  I'm sure you're right about it being connected with the kind of water, but I wondered whether it might be connected with water treatment chemicals which were sometimes added to loco feed water?

 

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50 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

Non, c’est Gladiateur.

 

 

Bien súr.

 

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10 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

Funny you should mention the Singer Sewing machine. I spent a tenner on a hand cranked one a couple of years back for the daughter, and I regularly seem to get it out to repair items of clothing. Her pair of tracksuit bottoms for school yesterday (They had been worn once and the stitching had come apart) and then three pairs of hi-vis orange work trousers that needed odd repairs too.

 

Parts are easy to get hold of and it really does purr like a sawing machine. Every home should have one!

 

Andy G

 

Edit: Mine is a baby, its from about 1932, so hardly run in yet!

 

You set me thinking odd thoughts with that! Has anybody actually converted an old sewing machine into either a sawing or filing machine of some sort? Somebody must have tried something. 

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58 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

I agree; I think 60070 is the only loco I've painted such a streak on and also think it is a bit of a cliche on weathered models, but looking at pictures of A3s like those Tony posted earlier, it struck me how often they seemed to have a streak down the firebox.  I'm sure you're right about it being connected with the kind of water, but I wondered whether it might be connected with water treatment chemicals which were sometimes added to loco feed water?

 

 

If as Tony has suggested, this is a problem more prevalent on the East Coast then it does point to the water quality, where much of the water was taken from hard water, chalk or, further north, limestone aquifers.

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One thing we should remember is that the vast majority of colour photos were taken in the last few years of steam, when everything was being run down, neglected and if it stopped working, it got scrapped rather than repaired.

 

So we have nearly 200 years of railway history of which about 5 years is well covered by colour photography, when they were not at their best.

 

If you look back to the smaller number of photographs taken in the mid to late 1950s, rather than the early to mid 1960s, there is a big change in the state of things over that short a period.

 

So it is a bit of a trap to look at colour photos from 1963 and weather your locos for your 1955 layout based on how they looked.

 

Even in pre-grouping times, there is a big change in appearance from when the workforce went off to war in 1914/1915 through to grouping, compared to the days prior to WW1 when cleaners were plentiful and labour was at a cost the railways were happy to pay for.

 

In some respects, you should be able to almost tell a rough period for a layout from the state of the weathering as much as the liveries.

 

There is at least one layout where a superb modeller and great weatherer gave a number of locos a superb "end of steam" coat of rust and filth which then had to be gently "unweathered" to fit with the 1957 date of the layout.  

Edited by t-b-g
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