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Tony Wright

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Clive,

 

I used to 'play' cricket, and, as a child, I 'played' with my toy trains. Both were great 'fun'.

 

I now get my fun (among other things) from making models. I have done for many years. Isn't that sufficient a point to be a railway modeller? 

 

I never did drive Pete Marshall's tinplate railways. Why would I? Such stuff interests me not a jot (other than as historical quirks), so I'm afraid I'd never regard it as 'fun'.

 

I rarely operate model railways, unless it's when guests are here. Then it's 'fun'. As is the conversation and banter (as you know). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

Hello Tony 

 

I use to think I was a modeller first and a reluctant operator but since I have Sheffield Exchange up and running I am enjoying playing trains as much as building them. As I write this I have a Met-Cam 3 car DMU (Hornby as out the box) meandering one way and going the other is a Brush two (Lima unmodified) hauling a rake of parcels stock. Of which only one is kit built and I purchased it. 

 

I am enjoying see them run as I listen to Skating Polly sing Stop Digging (my favourite of their songs).

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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Last time I looked, steamrollers didn't have flanges on their wheels at all. So the nearest equivalent in 4mm modelling is P4.

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32 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

I hope Tony doesn’t mind me asking a question here. I have tried applying some Fox transfers to the inside of the windows on DMU (Class 120) I am building. They seemed to take OK, but later when I brushed off some dust from inside the unit using a large soft brush, one of them moved.

Class120_144.jpg

 

I suspect that it was just the water drying had sealed them in place, and the adhesive was on the rear. I did try a test first using the Fox logo at the bottom of the sheet, but I did not leave it overnight to test the seal.

Class120_143.jpg

 

I know this thread is a fountain of both knowledge and experience, so I thought I would ask here. I also started a thread on the Weathering, Painting & Transfers/ skills section of the forum:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/150917-transfers-inside-windows-reversed/

Maybe a dab of dilute PVA on the transfers using a cocktail stick, or brush them off and use some other transfers?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Jamie

I don't mind anyone asking a question on here, Jamie.

 

Questions are to be encouraged.

 

I've not used Fox transfers for applying the signage on the insides of carriage windows. My choice has been the HMRS 'Pressfix' type. On these, the adhesive is definitely on the 'front' face of the transfers, unlike, say, numerals where the adhesive is on the back. They can leave a tiny halo of 'gum', but this comes off easily with enamel thinners, once the transfers have set. 

 

Here are a couple of examples where I've used the Pressfix internal signage.....

 

1456902884_38triplet01.jpg.6961fdda2292a5b37771db3464f2bb3d.jpg

 

230262433_38triplet02.jpg.dc21dea657ef87f200248e2016e01168.jpg

 

This is one of the ex-Flying Scotsman 1938 catering triplets. The bodies were built by John Houlden using Rupert Brown's body etchings. I built the bogies and underframes, and Geoff Haynes painted it. I then made the interiors, glazed it and added the internal transfers - a sort of group build. I think the signs look fine, though the First Class ends are the further away in both shots.

 

1402031248_ex-SilverJubileetriplet.jpg.bea9b311767c577f7ad9af790b8505e1.jpg

 

The same signage inside a Mailcoach ex-Silver Jubilee triplet which is all my work (never again!). Not 'all my work' never again, but never another Mailcoach job! 

 

Picking up on a few other recent points if I may, please? 

 

Lubricants?

 

From what I've been told and what I've seen, never use Electrolube if your chassis has Romford/Markits drivers. The rim insulation is thin, brown paper, which absorbs the Electrolube and causes the wheels to short out! I think the product is fine for all-metal installations (switches, etc,) but not for rim-insulated drivers. 

 

Does it affect plastics? The reason I ask is that I asked Norman Solomon if it might be a good idea to lubricate the tie-bars on the pointwork he'd made for LB in 2008; one of which had started to stick. 'Of course' was his reply, but it must be entirely synthetic oil. So, I bought some, and it's worked. 

 

For loco mechanisms/bearings and so on, I use the oil sold by the likes of Eileen's Emporium/Hobby Holidays, contained in a sort of pen-like dispenser. 

 

Now, muck in mechanisms caused by subsequent building on them.........

 

I always build the chassis of a loco first, making sure it's sweet before going on to making the body. Though I don't recommend then using the chassis as a sort of 'jig' for then building the body (as recommended by Poppyswood), from time to time, the part-built body must be offered up to the frames to check clearances and a good fit. With that comes the risk of detritus getting into where one doesn't want it, so I always brush off any muck before offering the two main parts together. Since I don't have sprung/moving hornblocks, there's less of a problem, but the last thing one wants are bits of grot getting into sweet-running gearboxes (did I say making models was 'fun'?). 

 

One other thing, often encountered, is the problem of a good-running chassis suddenly becoming 'iffy' once the body is on. There are a number of factors at play here - interference around the flanges, short circuits and so on. One thing occasionally overlooked is the chassis deflecting once the body is screwed on. This is caused by the body being more rigid than the chassis. That's why I prefer 'battleship' chassis. Some etched ones are very flimsy (too flimsy), even though they might be 'scale' thickness. I always make sure it's the body which deflects (if there is any) when the two are together. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony 

 

I use to think I was a modeller first and a reluctant operator but since I have Sheffield Exchange up and running I am enjoying playing trains as much as building them. As I write this I have a Met-Cam 3 car DMU (Hornby as out the box) meandering one way and going the other is a Brush two (Lima unmodified) hauling a rake of parcels stock. Of which only one is kit built and I purchased it. 

 

I am enjoying see them run as I listen to Skating Polly sing Stop Digging (my favourite of their songs).

'I listen to Skating Polly sing Stop Digging (my favourite of their songs).'

 

I assume that's a singer or a band? 

 

Does it surprise you that I'm entirely ignorant of which, Clive?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'I listen to Skating Polly sing Stop Digging (my favourite of their songs).'

 

I assume that's a singer or a band? 

 

Does it surprise you that I'm entirely ignorant of which, Clive?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony 

 

They are an American band, formed of two step sisters and their brother. Regulars on  the Sheffield Exchange thread have been recently introduced to some Russian rock bands. 

I find running trains as I listen to my taste in music a great way to relax.  Must dash as I have a York express hauled by a Type 3 and a Leeds /Bradford DMU arriving soon. 

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Skating Polly sounds like it should have been an ECML named loco! 

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6 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

Doesn't the tin plate layout look like it could be fun to drive, surely that is the main object of the hobby. I know most people who read this thread are interested in getting their models as close to the prototype as possible but if it isn't fun to play with what is the point of being a railway modeller.

I have this idea to resurrect my old models from my teenage years, including peeling off the horrible paint jobs I applied and building a proper train set as an antidote to finer scale modelling. (But I don't tell anyone!).

 

Martyn

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5 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

Can I ask some advice on smooth running. On my 1F I got the chassis running nice and smoothly to my satisfaction. I put a small drop of fine clock oil on each of the bearings and also the crank rod bearings, followed by some running in.

 

I then turned my attention to fine detailing the body with the chassis sitting towards the back of my workbench. On completion I assembled everything and had a play. After a while I found the running getting a little 'sticky'.  Now .... as nothing had changed from the original set up I deduced that some of the filing dust/scratch brush dust might well have got in to the mechanism. I stripped the chassis down and gave everything a thorough clean. I seem to have been right in my diagnosis as the chassis is running smoothly again.

 

Should I look to lubricate again? and if so using what? I am pretty sure that the oil attracted the contamination and I can see no reason why this will not happen again over time.

Tim,

 

when I built this LNWR 12 wheel diner from the old Modellers World kit I used Masokits inside bearing sprung etched bogie frames (it was the simplest option for P4). I lubricated the inside bearings  with some clock oil and was surprised by how much effort was needed to move it. I lightly washed out the bearings with cigarette lighter fluid (my favorite cleaning solvent) and the carriage then ran very easily. A fine film of oil may have remained but the  "torque converter" effect of too much oil was probably removed.

 

1188931478_D1034.jpg.3d9268053751162de97a561f57b41373.jpg

 

As Andy (Headstock) commented, stripping and reassembling the  chassis may also have inadvertently removed some other contributory factor.

 

Jol

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Three products that I use with success on both my OO & O layouts are

 

1. WD40 - usually a drop on a rag to clean rails etc of built up gunge. I don't use WD40 to lubricate gears / axles, or to generally clean track etc.

 

2. SERVISOL electrical switch cleaner, in a spray can. A touch on the rails occasionally and let the train  run over & disperse it. NEVER had any problems and works well - Just a touch on each rail though. It dries / evaporates without staining if it gets onto ballast. I used to get mine from Maplins, now via ebay. One can lasts years. OK also on loco pick ups etc. Wonderful stuff.

 

image.png.614fc5126932dd5b3e5f690e705e2616.png

 

3. Electrolube in a pen. I bought a few of these years ago and am nearly out. just a tiny a drop on gears & bearings etc. Never had any problems with this over the years either. Anyone know where you can buy these now (the pen type as photo below) ?

 

217XNxU6keL._AC_.jpg

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
typo
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21 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andy,

 

Very sound reasoning, with which I cannot disagree.....

 

However, why is that some who cannot tolerate 'steamroller' wheels, cannot then get their trains to stay on the track when they change them to ..... bicycle wheels? 

 

It's been recorded before, but some guests who operated the 'coarse' standards of Little Bytham, thought it 'wonderful', until one looked at the loco/stock wheels (and by analogy) and narrow gauge trackwork. They were 'impressed' when a P2 I'd built took 14 (heavy) bogies round at near 100 scale mph, without fuss, failure or derailment, but couldn't have lived with the steamroller wheels. 

 

Yet, when I saw the layout they were operating a month or two later at a show, they couldn't get a 2-6-2T with only two carriages from one end to the other of a terminus-fiddle yard layout, without it falling off all over the place! 

 

'No going back'? It's 'no going forward' for me if the finest scale/gauge standards can produce such poor running. 

 

The last said, I've also seen some pretty grim running on layouts with 'steamroller' wheels. But, we have been here before...........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Oh Dear,

 

Being 8 hours behind in time meant I had to read a lot more replies to my obviously poor word-smithing before being able to continue.  Apologies to all. No offense intended.

 

My major point I was trying to make is that I'm interested personally on ensuring 100% reliable track holding/pick-up/running in 4mm and 3.5 mm scale, by solving the various  difficulties of having affordable and easily achieved working suspension.  Once that happens, then the models can have any of the range of existing wheel profiles, or even wheels with exact scale flanges. The operating performance and reliability should then be identical. And more modelers will then have the choice of using what seems best to them, regardless of their individual skill levels.  The videos are intended to show that is now possible.

 

P87-tube-comp-800.jpg.560d3fbcbb380d26d5c7b4be363cdf72.jpg

 

As to my unfortunate last line. . . . I have found that looking at models with exact scale wheels, from the underside makes me less inclined to like identical models that have over sized wheels. Once the difference is observed, in my case, it is not forgettable, and subsequently not then lovable. . .  I have noticed a somewhat glazed eyes effect when showing the difference to my HO modeller colleagues.

 

384207284_Classdwg305end1.jpg.6c6e5427be389eb22e27d066dd161f86.jpg

 

As an aside, I don't know what has happened since my 70's move to the US, but all the then model magazines that showed carefully drawn scale drawings of locos, coaches etc., had the wheels and gauge drawn to scale. And apparently model commercial drawings still do.  So the very beginning of the modelling process starts with scale size wheels as the default..

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't mind anyone asking a question on here, Jamie.

 

Questions are to be encouraged.

 

I've not used Fox transfers for applying the signage on the insides of carriage windows. My choice has been the HMRS 'Pressfix' type. On these, the adhesive is definitely on the 'front' face of the transfers, unlike, say, numerals where the adhesive is on the back. They can leave a tiny halo of 'gum', but this comes off easily with enamel thinners, once the transfers have set. 

 

Here are a couple of examples where I've used the Pressfix internal signage.....

 

1456902884_38triplet01.jpg.6961fdda2292a5b37771db3464f2bb3d.jpg

 

230262433_38triplet02.jpg.dc21dea657ef87f200248e2016e01168.jpg

 

This is one of the ex-Flying Scotsman 1938 catering triplets. The bodies were built by John Houlden using Rupert Brown's body etchings. I built the bogies and underframes, and Geoff Haynes painted it. I then made the interiors, glazed it and added the internal transfers - a sort of group build. I think the signs look fine, though the First Class ends are the further away in both shots.

 

1402031248_ex-SilverJubileetriplet.jpg.bea9b311767c577f7ad9af790b8505e1.jpg

 

The same signage inside a Mailcoach ex-Silver Jubilee triplet which is all my work (never again!). Not 'all my work' never again, but never another Mailcoach job! 

 

.......

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I can't speak for Fox transfers, but my (Cambridge Custom Transfers) window labels are intended to be applied to the inside of the window.

 

Nonetheless, I always apply a coat of Klear to the inside of the window in order to seal the transfer; once dried, the Klear is invisible.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

Tony and John.

Thank you so much for your replies.

 

Something I say to my students is that until you do your own work, you don't encounter problems that need solving. Demonstrations always work well (well usually anyway), but as in this case I have done transfers on models, pressfix and waterslide, including some Cambridge Custom Transfers (a nice set for a dozen Presflo Wagons), something very slightly different is encountered. Being able to draw on the knowledge shared on RMweb, and especially in this thread is a real help.

 

I had a fruitless afternoon looking in shops in town for Klear, I will search the internet this evening.

 

Lovely to see some examples as well.

 

Thank you both again.

 

Jamie

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29 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

 

 

Tony and John.

Thank you so much for your replies.

 

Something I say to my students is that until you do your own work, you don't encounter problems that need solving. Demonstrations always work well (well usually anyway), but as in this case I have done transfers on models, pressfix and waterslide, including some Cambridge Custom Transfers (a nice set for a dozen Presflo Wagons), something very slightly different is encountered. Being able to draw on the knowledge shared on RMweb, and especially in this thread is a real help.

 

I had a fruitless afternoon looking in shops in town for Klear, I will search the internet this evening.

 

Lovely to see some examples as well.

 

Thank you both again.

 

Jamie

See here ... caveat emptor

 

 

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Jamie/Tim

On another thread it has been highlighted that it has a name of pledge "revive it". Available from Amazon at £14.89p for 27 fl oz.

 

Pete

Edited by cb900f
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Hi Lecorbusier and Pete

 

I had just been searching some military and aircraft modelling forums and was realising that Pledge is what is available now. I think a quick nip out to the supermarket one lunchtime this week should help solve the issue.

 

Thank you for your guidance.

 

Jamie

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1 hour ago, Andy Reichert said:

 

Oh Dear,

 

Being 8 hours behind in time meant I had to read a lot more replies to my obviously poor word-smithing before being able to continue.  Apologies to all. No offense intended.

 

My major point I was trying to make is that I'm interested personally on ensuring 100% reliable track holding/pick-up/running in 4mm and 3.5 mm scale, by solving the various  difficulties of having affordable and easily achieved working suspension.  Once that happens, then the models can have any of the range of existing wheel profiles, or even wheels with exact scale flanges. The operating performance and reliability should then be identical. And more modelers will then have the choice of using what seems best to them, regardless of their individual skill levels.  The videos are intended to show that is now possible.

 

P87-tube-comp-800.jpg.560d3fbcbb380d26d5c7b4be363cdf72.jpg

 

As to my unfortunate last line. . . . I have found that looking at models with exact scale wheels, from the underside makes me less inclined to like identical models that have over sized wheels. Once the difference is observed, in my case, it is not forgettable, and subsequently not then lovable. . .  I have noticed a somewhat glazed eyes effect when showing the difference to my HO modeller colleagues.

 

384207284_Classdwg305end1.jpg.6c6e5427be389eb22e27d066dd161f86.jpg

 

As an aside, I don't know what has happened since my 70's move to the US, but all the then model magazines that showed carefully drawn scale drawings of locos, coaches etc., had the wheels and gauge drawn to scale. And apparently model commercial drawings still do.  So the very beginning of the modelling process starts with scale size wheels as the default..

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone has taken offence, Andy.

 

There's nothing to take offence at in my view. 

 

By the way is the way you've written 'offense' American?

 

Many thanks for your comments.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

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44 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

See here ... caveat emptor

 

 

Hi 
I am sorry to say I started the Johnson’s Klear thread way back in 2011.

 

I don’t know if you are familiar with Johnson’s Klear, please forgive me if you are but do not get conned into paying extortionate prices for the old formula in the clear plastic bottle now only available on Ebay.

 

The new replacement formula which came out about six years ago is exactly the same and does the same job as the old one did, the only difference is it’s a milky colour but still dries clear.

 

having said that the new formula for some reason has also become very elusive now as well.

 

Robert Dyas and Asda both use to sell it, I last purchased a 750 ml bottle about three years ago.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

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2 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi 
I am sorry to say I started the Johnson’s Klear thread way back in 2011.

 

I don’t know if you are familiar with Johnson’s Klear, please forgive me if you are but do not get conned into paying extortionate prices for the old formula in the clear plastic bottle now only available on Ebay.

 

The new replacement formula which came out about six years ago is exactly the same and does the same job as the old one did, the only difference is it’s a milky colour but still dries clear.

 

having said that the new formula for some reason has also become very elusive now as well.

 

Robert Dyas and Asda both use to sell it, I last purchased a 750 ml bottle about three years ago.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

If the picture is anything to go by then Pledge "revive it" would appear to be clear and not milky? I also purchased a bottle of the milky formula and didn't get on with it.

revive.jpeg.b76cea6c7f553edbc4ab77f0e9c46aac.jpeg.9112ca4d51e02ddf1e63ef409e7b4b3f.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

If the picture is anything to go by then Pledge "revive it" would appear to be clear and not milky? I also purchased a bottle of the milky formula and didn't get on with it.

revive.jpeg.b76cea6c7f553edbc4ab77f0e9c46aac.jpeg.9112ca4d51e02ddf1e63ef409e7b4b3f.jpeg

Hi 

 

I am sorry obviously you have used the product before and know about it.

 

The bottle in your photo is  that the replacement you are talking about and have you used it?
 

its good to see it back again and in a clear liquid form as well.

 

Regards

 

David

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9 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi 

 

I am sorry obviously you have used the product before and know about it.

 

The bottle in your photo is  that the replacement you are talking about and have you used it?
 

its good to see it back again and in a clear liquid form as well.

 

Regards

 

David

Hi David,

 

No I have no experience ... I thought the milky version was still current.

 

It was Pete's post above which prompted a quick google search.

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2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

3. Electrolube in a pen. I bought a few of these years ago and am nearly out. just a tiny a drop on gears & bearings etc. Never had any problems with this over the years either. Anyone know where you can buy these now (the pen type as photo below) ?

 

217XNxU6keL._AC_.jpg

 

Brit15

 

 

The Farnell, RS and Rapid websites all state that this is no longer manufactured :( so if you do find any left it may be worth buying several...

 

1 hour ago, cb900f said:

Jamie/Tim

On another thread it has been highlighted that it has a name of pledge "revive it". Available from Amazon at £14.89p for 27 fl oz.

 

Pete

 

Is this also the same stuff:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pledge-Klear-Multi-Surface-Wax/dp/B008HFVO32/ref=pd_sbs_201_t_0/261-2531671-6586217?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B008HFVO32&pd_rd_r=00490bf2-0a4e-4940-8864-b0a7cb7aec15&pd_rd_w=kD0ZP&pd_rd_wg=Gluab&pf_rd_p=e44592b5-e56d-44c2-a4f9-dbdc09b29395&pf_rd_r=46A7ATH7NJ0YXNDB3KQS&psc=1&refRID=46A7ATH7NJ0YXNDB3KQS

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't think anyone has taken offence, Andy.

 

There's nothing to take offence at in my view. 

 

By the way is the way you've written 'offense' American?

 

Many thanks for your comments.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

I've now lived in the US for longer than in the UK.  So the memories of spelling differences are fading. I did spell it UK wise initially, but the spell checker "corrected" it for me and I couldn't remember if I should have to change it back.

 

Interestingly, we have a "fence" company here, that, to validate the topic, is located right on the side of our local "East Coast Main Line" (Amtrak and UP).

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I can't speak for Fox transfers, but my (Cambridge Custom Transfers) window labels are intended to be applied to the inside of the window.

 

Nonetheless, I always apply a coat of Klear to the inside of the window in order to seal the transfer; once dried, the Klear is invisible.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I've not had a problem with CCT coach window transfers falling off, despite not sealing them in.  But I'll do it in future just to be sure.

 

Tone

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By the way is the way you've written 'offense' American?

 

I think it's an older English form that has survived in Americanish, whilst English spelling has evolved. I've noticed when looking at legal documents from last century that, for example, they start out using license, but are using licence by mid-century. (similarly, Americanisms such as harbor and realize appear more often in nineteenth and early twentieth century documents than one would expect from non-American speakers).

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In Midland Railway specifications to outside contractors for locomotives ordered in the 1880s the word color is used when referring to paint samples.

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