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Tony Wright

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3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Could this sort of thing differentiate 'modellers' from those who just operate trains? 

 

I wonder? 

 

I won’t forget when you happened to turn up to the Sydney Model Railway Exhibition back in 2018 and were thoroughly disappointed in the quality on show, including many layouts where time had been spent on scenery only for the trains to be straight out of the box plonks. It makes one think about how the train and the layout have to work in harmony for a proper layout, such as on your show favourite Fingal (Tasmanian Government Railways in 3’6” OO for those playing at home).

 

The modelling scene is a little different out here, granted. Slowly but surely though this attitude of plonking is changing and for the better. Locomotives and rollingstock are now becoming more customised and weathered, rollingstock is getting a healthy dip in dirt where needed and even the track is having attention paid to it. There’s a few Facebook groups that are around and good for modelling, but the one with the most inspiration (even though the spectrum of the group is the 1975-1995 diesel scene) has for the last few years even started putting on a modelling day with 2 layouts, a raffle that manufacturers are contributing to (kit and RTR) and now even clinics in a back room. Some people now seek out specific consists to run, even for that day only and loan each other stock to enable this to happen. It’s a novel approach to modelling in the 21st Century, but it has been paying off big-time for all the modellers getting involved and changing the hobby. 

 

On Kit vs RTR, the market down here is majorly different to the UK, particularly steam locomotives. Things are that dire with RTR steam that 1980s and 1990s Korean brass locomotives are still considered the high point of steam for the most part. These still require work without a doubt to properly represent a locomotive, but it’s a sad thought that the best stab at a NSWGR C38 is now reaching middle age and the newest example would be akin to the accuracy in some areas of a tender drive A4.

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3 hours ago, great central said:

we are firm believers in keeping something moving until closing time

If only everyone thought the same.

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11 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

Tony, same here, cant open up a new post. But anyway, the rtr models look impressive and much superior  to the models straight out of the box. I like the look of the A3 with a coat of Johnson’s Clear. I think I’ve seen it done on locos from Peterborough North as well. Any idea if it’s just sprayed on like a varnish?

Regards Robert

I don't know how the Klear has been applied, Robert.

 

I know Tim Shackleton brushes it on when he applies it to models, and it seems to dry very quickly. 

 

Tim Easter does the finishing/weathering on the RTR-based locos on Peterborough North, with some excellent results.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know how the Klear has been applied, Robert.

 

I know Tim Shackleton brushes it on when he applies it to models, and it seems to dry very quickly. 

 

Tim Easter does the finishing/weathering on the RTR-based locos on Peterborough North, with some excellent results.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Brushed on is fine - in fact, better than sprayed. That way, you get the first elements of weathering, even if it is just a subtle hint of streaking and variable finish.

 

Works for me, anyway.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know how the Klear has been applied, Robert.

 

I know Tim Shackleton brushes it on when he applies it to models, and it seems to dry very quickly. 

 

I use Klear, painted on with a brush, to provide a glossy surface for the location when adding decals/transfers and then seal with more Klear when they are dry, although the model then gets a coat of aerosol matt varnish.  The Klear seems to have a self leveling property and is a high quality floor varnish which dries without brush marks so there doesn't seem to be a need to air-brush/spray it on.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I long since stopped worrying about whether what other people do matches my interests or not.

 

I have seen layouts with exquisite locos and stock that were handmade but ran badly through poor scenery. I have seen decent layouts populated with out of the box RTR that run well and are interesting to watch operating.

 

I would suggest that the photo of the SR Atlantic does indeed display some modelling. The scenery is rather nice. If somebody took photos of one of my layouts only to publish them on the internet as an example of "wholly unacceptable" I would be rather miffed!

 

I would be most reluctant to describe what any other person in the hobby was doing as "wholly unacceptable". As long as people are enjoying the hobby and not doing any harm to anybody, I don't think there is anything within the hobby that I would use those words to describe. Not even modelling the GWR. There is a world of difference between something not being what I would do myself and it being unacceptable.

Speaking to some of the builders of the layout, they were a bit miffed, too, Tony. Not by my comments (which, as you'll know, I made known to them!) but by the plonking-down of a totally out-of-the-box, brand new loco, which then ran unimpeded for the rest of the show. 'Democracy', I think I was told.

 

The photograph in question does indeed show some very fine modelling - exquisite in some places. Hence my comment on a straight-from-the-box loco being 'wholly unacceptable'. 

 

May I put it this way, please? If I'd paid money to see the show, and the overall layout I was looking at was clearly the product of craftsmanship, self-reliance, inventiveness, personal modelling and all of it very well done, I'd be very miffed to see something I could see in a model shop for nothing running on it. And I was! 

 

The ultimate absurdity regarding this occurred at a show some little time ago when two identical, just released RTR locos appeared on a layout for the duration. They'd both been bought at the show (by different people) and the owners exercised their individual 'right' to run something on the club layout. I walked away! I wonder how many other spectators thought that 'acceptable', wholly or otherwise? 

 

And, just to show that modified/detailed/weathered RTR locos are entirely acceptable in my view..............

 

Some more views of the same layout.........

 

22528111_Cadiford04.jpg.69b61e6113a1252cdad986ad02ec9c3c.jpg

 

575989250_Cadiford17.jpg.dc747f03189f6359196aaa14fd96f293.jpg

 

1436871413_Cadiford20A.jpg.ebdc16a947980c6cdcafe27fa6ccfd78.jpg

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. It might amuse you to know, Tony, that when I'm invited to take pictures of a layout, without exception, the layout builders ask me my opinion. They don't (won't?) always agree with me, but they want to know. 

 

Much better in my view than the sneaky comments one often hears as 'criticism', then, when 'confronted', the commentator disappears. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tony Wright
to clarify a point
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Can anyone recommend a supplier of Klear? I did read that the product had changed some time ago. I have a suspicion that may of you "old hands" have a large bottle that you've has for many years, which isn't so very helpful for those wanting to start trying it.

 

Plus our parquet's looking very tired.

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10 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Can anyone recommend a supplier of Klear? I did read that the product had changed some time ago. I have a suspicion that may of you "old hands" have a large bottle that you've has for many years, which isn't so very helpful for those wanting to start trying it.

 

Plus our parquet's looking very tired.

Its now called Pledge or similar.

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

.They'd both been bought at the show (by different people) and the owners exercised their individual 'right' to run something on the club layout. I walked away! I wonder how many other spectators thought that 'acceptable', wholly or otherwise? 

 

 

I suspect not many if it were a typical show rather than a 'finescale' organised event. I think the general public and quite a few modellers wouldn't bat an eyelid. I imagine many readers of this thread would however notice the discrepancy. I'd probably find the new shiney thing a distraction by having an identical twin or looking out of place, if the rest of the modelling was good (as in your example image) its unlikely to influence my opinion of the layout I'm viewing.

On a tangent I did read on this forum a good while back that if you bought a loco at a show, it was perfectly alright to ask an operator to put your purchase on a layout and give it a try out. In a few cases, perhaps not a bad suggestion, in most I'd suggest a very bad idea! Funnily having bought loco's at shows and having friends exhibiting same scale/gauge at the same show, its never even occurred to me to ask!

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Once again, I don't seem to be able to open a post without an old one popping up.

 

No matter; I hope this works......

 

The question of improving RTR keeps on coming up. In my view, the notion has great merit - as long as one does most (if not all) of the work.

 

Yes, I accept that spoiling a (particularly) expensive locomotive has to be faced, but the improvements derived are worth the 'risk' in my view.

 

Though the following locos have been seen before on here, these are all new pictures........

 

292656908_BachmannA160125.jpg.3583da7ea5c0ebeebabbd43872f12557.jpg

 

A Bachmann A1 (ex-ABERDONIAN - one of the first and, amazingly, still with its original motor!). Modifications include new etched smoke deflectors, new bogie wheels, lots of wiggly pipes, the rear end of the loco raised up to match the tender soleplate, renumbering/renaming and just a hint of weathering; dry-brush/airbrush, the latter courtesy of Ian Rathbone. 

 

A decent enough layout loco? It's packed with as much lead as I could get in, and it just about pulls 12 cars, some kit-built. 

 

1791604197_BachmannA260538.jpg.3f5da28975acdbd6a909b50c7e1c1861.jpg

 

A Bachmann A2 (ex HAPPY KNIGHT or PEARL DIVER). The usual mods, but this time the weathering is by Tom Foster. 

 

Despite having extra ballast added, this one slips far too much to be of much use on LB. 

 

335272398_HornbyA360054.jpg.9f498bc093f289d6b5fd680b28a814ca.jpg

 

A Hornby A3 (ex CORONACH, I think)), fitted with an A4 boiler. I should have carved off the superfluous wiggly pipe this side, and the valve gear could really do with improving. However, Tom Foster's use of KLEAR has brought out the lustre of the Hornby green. New bogie wheels are essential. 

 

1916002310_HornbyA360077.jpg.6d64ff0bce5663d8efb9013faa07d65b.jpg

 

Another Hornby A3, this time left as 60077. I removed the German deflectors, added replacement handrails, made proper wiggly pipes and changed the bogie wheels. Son Tom then dusted it over with his airbrush to give a sooty/dusty finish. 

 

501314229_HornbyO163786.jpg.f58fe3f34257373bbac1831d75f74f4a.jpg

 

A Hornby O1, changed to the one which had its rising arc handrail over the front of the smokebox removed (doesn't it alter the appearance?). Dry-brush weathering finished it off.

 

Junking the awful tension-lock coupling at the front makes a huge improvement (and then adding a proper three-link), but I need to make a better job of disguising that nasty pocket in the pony. 

 

1546863584_HeljanO263937.jpg.fe43038b7dad14c7ffbf83c3ed97e6b0.jpg

 

A much-altered Heljan O2/3; changed to an O2/2 by putting the drive on the RH side, changing the cab (spare off a Heljan sprue), making a new front buffer beam and adding new buffers, and making a NU-Cast GNR tender for it. I also changed the poor chimney. Repainting and dry-brush weathering finished the job. 

 

Though, as is well known, I prefer to make my own locos, I'm happy (up to a point) to use some RTR such as these. Apart from the Heljan O2, they're limited by what they can pull, but suitable duties can be found for them. 

 

They all, as I hope I've shown, are definitely not 'straight from the box'.

 

Unlike this........

 

985174543_Cadiford06A.jpg.f3585966538a99219ecc16c7b6671a58.jpg

 

Which was a bought at a show, its box opened and its proud owner plonked it on the layout (it ran for over a day). In my opinion, this is wholly unacceptable, especially as no attempt was made to remove the awful coupling and fit the extra detail bits. 

 

Could this sort of thing differentiate 'modellers' from those who just operate trains? 

 

I wonder? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Morning Tony,

 

when I was running a Hornby O1, I also titivated the little beast. A new identity was devised, wiggle pipes and injectors were added and the front truck was modified. I also replaced the smoke box door, as that provided on the Hornby model is the less common type, being suitable for a more limited number of the class. What has been said about RTR  providing variants can be somewhat sketchy across a range, variants being more usually available on the most prestigious types.

 

I was very impressed by the Hornby O1 from a mechanical point of view, I don't hold many of the manufactures products in such high esteem. Unfortunately, it tended to leak oil all over the place no matter how many times you cleaned it. This rather spoilt the paint job and was constantly having to be touched up. It has now been replaced by an 04/8 and has been cascaded to back up engine status.

 

Photo courtesy of Derek Shaw.

 

GM runner 01 63579.jpg

Edited by Headstock
add photo credit
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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

The ultimate absurdity regarding this occurred at a show some little time ago when two identical, just released RTR locos appeared on a layout for the duration. They'd both been bought at the show (by different people) and the owners exercised their individual 'right' to run something on the club layout. I walked away! I wonder how many other spectators thought that 'acceptable', wholly or otherwise? 

 

 

Maybe more would have noticed out-of-the box RTR if they had been bang-up-to-date Japanese Shinkansen units with pantographs on top. But I wonder how tolerant the club would have been then in allowing members to exercise  their rights. 

 

However, do people no longer firstly test out their new purchases (to make sure it works and doesn't derail), then run them in and fit the pack of details they were supplied with as well as removing the chunky front end couplers?

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Maybe more would have noticed out-of-the box RTR if they had been bang-up-to-date Japanese Shinkansen units with pantographs on top. But I wonder how tolerant the club would have been then in allowing members to exercise  their rights. 

 

However, do people no longer firstly test out their new purchases (to make sure it works and doesn't derail), then run them in and fit the pack of details they were supplied with as well as removing the chunky front end couplers?

 

 

 

 

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that "members can exercise their rights" to their hearts' content on club nights in the clubrooms but when at exhibitions they forfeit any such "rights". The only exception, de facto rather than de jure, seems to be in the final hour of a show.

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51 minutes ago, PMP said:

 

I suspect not many if it were a typical show rather than a 'finescale' organised event. I think the general public and quite a few modellers wouldn't bat an eyelid. I imagine many readers of this thread would however notice the discrepancy. I'd probably find the new shiney thing a distraction by having an identical twin or looking out of place, if the rest of the modelling was good (as in your example image) its unlikely to influence my opinion of the layout I'm viewing.

On a tangent I did read on this forum a good while back that if you bought a loco at a show, it was perfectly alright to ask an operator to put your purchase on a layout and give it a try out. In a few cases, perhaps not a bad suggestion, in most I'd suggest a very bad idea! Funnily having bought loco's at shows and having friends exhibiting same scale/gauge at the same show, its never even occurred to me to ask!

Hi Paul

 

In the past I have had quite a few people ask can they test their "new" loco on my layout.....and out comes a Tri-ang steam outline model to be tested on "not another bloody diesel depot".

 

It is hard to say "No 'king way" without offending people.

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15 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

In the past I have had quite a few people ask can they test their "new" loco on my layout.....and out comes a Tri-ang steam outline model to be tested on "not another bloody diesel depot".

 

It is hard to say "No 'king way" without offending people.

 

Always King class kettles? But I'm sure you find a way, you usually do. ;-)

 

FWIW I had the same often happen to me on my layout when exhibiting it. If it didn't fit the era or traction genre I 'test' ran it in the hidden fiddle yard and then handed it back with a "seems fine to me, but best double check on your own layout".

 

 

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My slight reservation on testing for others are down to things like controller and system compatibilities, especially if the punter isn’t sure what’s inside the loco in question. ;)

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Posted (edited)

I'd suggest that it might be an idea for exhibition organisers to include a basic test track layout on which newly acquired locos or one's punters have brought along with them can be run.  This would possibly increase the sales for trade stands, and would be a layout on which anyone could 'have a go', maybe in consideration of a small donation to an appropriate charity in the same way Tony fettles locos.  There must be many people who own locos and stock but have no layout to run them on who would appreciate this.  Maybe basic loco fettling facilities could be provide in conjunction with this.

 

My local model emporium has a small test track and a DCC display layout on which locos can be test run.

Edited by The Johnster
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25 minutes ago, PMP said:

My slight reservation on testing for others are down to things like controller and system compatibilities, especially if the punter isn’t sure what’s inside the loco in question. ;)

 

Yep, and even wheel/track/b-t-b standards.

 

Plus many old secondhand locos, especially in N/2mm, can have huge flanges that won't run properly on modern finer code rails. And I found that many steam locos, with cylinders and rods hanging on the outside and wheels, are too wide to pass through some model modern stations with the possibility of damage to the loco or platform.

 

 

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2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that "members can exercise their rights" to their hearts' content on club nights in the clubrooms but when at exhibitions they forfeit any such "rights". The only exception, de facto rather than de jure, seems to be in the final hour of a show.

Quite agree, John,

 

During the last hour at shows, all sorts used to run as guests on Stoke Summit and Charwelton - and they were really interesting. 

 

However, for the rest of the time it was 'business as usual'. Though there were quite a few RTR items running (particularly Bachmann Mk.1s), nothing was allowed to run straight-from-the-box (except during that last hour). If punters have paid money to come to an exhibition, they want to see what folk have made/modified, not just what they've bought. That's my experience, anyway, hence my 'unacceptable' quote - 'wholly', even. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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I remember at Barrow Hill when they had the A4s there before they went back, they had a layout in the shed. Grantham I think it was and they were running a proper timetable. This lad came up and asked whether they could run his "new" loco. It was a Bachmann Class 37 in some modern livery such as EWS.

 

I nearly spat out half my pint trying to stifle a laugh. it was located right next to the bar.

 

 

 

Jason

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Issue there is trying to not upset the young lad given that he really should be encouraged. He could have little to no idea of the fact his diesel is out of period for the layout. All depends on his age and how mature he is.

 

Of course it's completely right to educate him. But the problem is doing it in a tactful manor that leaves him happy.

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5 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

I remember at Barrow Hill when they had the A4s there before they went back, they had a layout in the shed. Grantham I think it was and they were running a proper timetable. This lad came up and asked whether they could run his "new" loco. It was a Bachmann Class 37 in some modern livery such as EWS.

 

I nearly spat out half my pint trying to stifle a laugh. it was located right next to the bar.

 

 

 

Jason

    Some of the last few posts make me realise why there is so much abuse and mickey taking aimed at so called self proclaimed titled "Railway Modellers" by the general public. The attitude shown is so over the top it is embarrising to read . If people want to run anything on a layout , that is their choice no one elses , does it hurt anybody and does it really matter ?? No it simply  does'nt !!.Its playing trains at the end of the day, nothing more or less . Everybody has standards in model railways as in anything else in life.

 

    What is seriously wrong with a young lad asking to run his pride and joy of a Model railway layout ?? why or what is funny?? . The attitude and the smirks probably sent him away ,never bothering to ever go to another exhibition again. We should be encouraging youngsters not taking the mickey out of them .

 

    Some people seriously to look at themselves and their attitudes.

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2 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Always King class kettles? But I'm sure you find a way, you usually do. ;-)

 

FWIW I had the same often happen to me on my layout when exhibiting it. If it didn't fit the era or traction genre I 'test' ran it in the hidden fiddle yard and then handed it back with a "seems fine to me, but best double check on your own layout".

 

 

As bad is when you have invited a mate to help operate and he brings his locos to have a run. Normally they are wrong period, wrong region, haven't run for years (never been serviced) and back to backs are not compatible.

 

On coming back from a break there he is with the  hand of Odin helping this poor wretched thing negotiate a double slip. As soon as you return he gets out his camera to photo his prize RTR thing on your layout. You drive it off as soon as possible. What returns when he is driving or in charge of the fiddle yard?

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17 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Could this sort of thing differentiate 'modellers' from those who just operate trains? 

 

 

 

I have noticed, while exhibiting layouts at exhibitions, that many self-differentiate through the type of questions they ask.

 

'Modellers' tend to want to know how an effect was undertaken, how you made something, what techniques were used and so on. While 'purchasers' ask where they can get something you have on the layout, who makes it and where can it be bought.

 

The problem is that quite often what 'purchasers' ask about is not RTR but scratch-built or heavily bashed. For example many have asked where this N/2mm modern dust cart can be obtained but it is something I have made. The snag is that it's not a particularly good model and is quite old. The cab is a cut-down Jet-flame Scania fire engine and the body and chassis is scratch-built. And when you start to explain how to undertake the conversion and making the various bits they walk away.

 

DSC_9153.JPG.219de275fdb7717784b61da7d33e1510.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

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