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Tony Wright

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Two superannuated vehicles in engineers' use on LB.

 

630876763_engineerscarriages.jpg.4637d8ee1a6eae21091a5b839fc49b5f.jpg

 

John Isherwood very kindly supplied the bespoke transfers.

 

The weathering is by Richard Wilson. 

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48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

How was this lovely model lettered, Tony? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I thought that I had photographed the carriage with the lettering completed but I can't find them now, so maybe I missed the chance.

 

The lettering was taken from some Modelmaster transfers for Departmental vehicles. At the time the model was built, we had very few details and the lettering had to be based on similar vehicles that had been photographed.

 

Later, prototype information came to light and my lettering was found to be close but not 100% right. I can't see it being altered now.

 

What was interesting was that a couple of colour photos of the vehicle, straight out of BR use into preservation, have appeared on the web and the main body colour was a very dark red, not black. Whether it was painted after the period for Retford or whether it should have been red in 1957, I don't know.

 

 https://worthnews.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/vct-5021.jpg

 

Takes you to a view of it when it had just arrived at the KWVR.

 

 

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2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I thought that I had photographed the carriage with the lettering completed but I can't find them now, so maybe I missed the chance.

 

The lettering was taken from some Modelmaster transfers for Departmental vehicles. At the time the model was built, we had very few details and the lettering had to be based on similar vehicles that had been photographed.

 

Later, prototype information came to light and my lettering was found to be close but not 100% right. I can't see it being altered now.

 

What was interesting was that a couple of colour photos of the vehicle, straight out of BR use into preservation, have appeared on the web and the main body colour was a very dark red, not black. Whether it was painted after the period for Retford or whether it should have been red in 1957, I don't know.

 

 https://worthnews.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/vct-5021.jpg

 

Takes you to a view of it when it had just arrived at the KWVR.

 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

I think red was the engineers' stock colour from later - perhaps 1960 or after (someone on here is bound to know). 

 

Colour pictures from the '50s showing engineers' stock seem to show it faded black.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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'Gulf Red' was the colour used for engineers stock for a short period. I'm unsure of the exact dates, but it seems to be from about 1960-65. After that point i think they either went back to black for a while or just straight to the well known Olive.

 

Ther reason why it was phased out so quickly was possibly because it tended to fade to pink! If you look at a lot of pictures of catfish hoppers on the London Midland Region in the 60's, however, you will see quite a lot of them in Gulf Red.

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On 16/03/2020 at 21:37, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

279955731_Portlandcementvan.jpg.524c5ed8627d8274f2398b88ae75691c.jpg

 

Speaking of Peco WW, I built this when I were but a lad (it was a family birthday present). Is ir right?

 

Critical comment, please.

 

I really don't mind.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

I have absolutely no interest in wagons at all and know nothing about them, but the above is bound to be right because it is yours, you built it and it is part of your psyche.  I have bought things. This includes a Class 50, 50007 Sir Edward Elgar. My aged aunt gave me £50.00 for my 50th birthday. Edward Elgar died 23/02/34 and 50007 was renamed Sir Edward Elgar on 25/02/84 to commemorate 50 years since his death. So many 50s in this little tale, so I have a huge affinity for my model. You should be rightly proud that a model that you built is still running on your layout, so of course it is right.

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I think red was the engineers' stock colour from later - perhaps 1960 or after (someone on here is bound to know). 

 

Colour pictures from the '50s showing engineers' stock seem to show it faded black.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

That is what I thought and the reason why the Retford one will stay black! It was just a shock when I saw the red as I had considered that it would have been withdrawn when still black.

 

When I get the chance to see it again, I will photograph it with the lettering.

 

I actually built it twice. I haven't done much scratchbuilding of panelled carriages and the first effort was so awful I scrapped it and started again.

 

 

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5 hours ago, 96701 said:

My aged aunt gave me £50.00 for my 50th birthday

50 quid was still worth 50 quid in those days!

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5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

50 quid was still worth 50 quid in those days!

Cheeky! It was only 15 years ago. :jester:

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37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I think whatever colour is chosen for engineers' stock (unless it's just been painted), it will be faded/weathered (I have a shot I took of an HST at Huntingdon in 1979, and in the background is a Gresley carriage, in faded blue). Most engineer's stock tended to be old/downgraded carriages.

 

Would it be possible to reproduce your 1979 photograph on here?

It would be very useful to those who model the late LNER.

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57 minutes ago, drmditch said:

 

Would it be possible to reproduce your 1979 photograph on here?

It would be very useful to those who model the late LNER.

 

And anything from BR(S) and NSE in the 80s as well. That'd be useful for me.

;-)

 

 

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42 minutes ago, drmditch said:

 

Would it be possible to reproduce your 1979 photograph on here?

It would be very useful to those who model the late LNER.

It's a transparency, and I've no idea how to scan it.

 

I'll investigate, though it probably will mean breaking the 'curfew'!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Posted (edited)

I just ordered mine last night. I have a feeling it's going to look smashing with a little subtle weathering. Now all I have to do is put some effort into getting my layout finished. 

 

Graeme 

 

edit.  When can we expect to see your review Tony?

Edited by jacko

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm sure black is right, Tony,

 

There's a colour shot in one of my books (Eastern Region Steam, or something like that) of a breakdown train on Boston depot (with a K2 at its head). The picture was taken at the time depicted on Retford, and all the stock is black - very dirty/faded and ancient! The book in question is being used by Geoff Haynes right now to assist him in painting a particular A1, so I can't give the page, but the image was used for painting/weathering those vehicles on LB shown earlier (and also shown in this post) . 

 

I also have another shot of a breakdown train (it might even be in the same book) with a J6 at Wood Green, and all the stock in that is faded black - again from the '50s. A later shot I have (in the same book?) shows a B1 hauling an engineers' train, and the stock is bright red (freshly-painted?). It's also old in the main.

 

I think whatever colour is chosen for engineers' stock (unless it's just been painted), it will be faded/weathered (I have a shot I took of an HST at Huntingdon in 1979, and in the background is a Gresley carriage, in faded blue). Most engineer's stock tended to be old/downgraded carriages.

 

Not weathered, such stock just doesn't look natural.........

 

1635138497_Rollingstock21.jpg.9c792454d67abce606c7384f32721fb4.jpg

 

This is the Mousa Models ex-GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third after I'd built it, and painted it in Halfords satin black. Once again thanks to John Isherwood for the lovely transfers. 

 

The whole thing's finish isn't realistic.

 

1083446482_Rollingstock22.jpg.1bd307d256f8a7a386395da23e1d6909.jpg

 

After Richard Wilson weathered it; much more natural I think. 

 

43892013_MousaModelsGNRBrakeThird.jpg.48a1e11aa211ed85a1d97bcfa70d49a7.jpg

 

And, as an engineers' 'layout coach' - just right I think. 

 

The four-wheeler is an etched brass kit (from Discreet Models?), bought part-built from a deceased modeller's estate. I finished it, painted it, and Richard Wilson weathered this as well. 

 

Perhaps we should build such things from wood rather than brass, plastic or resin, so we can model the rotting panels that such vehicles often show. I don't know if it is just me but building something deliberately "wonky" just doesn't come easily, even if I know that the prototype was like that in reality. Bent handrails or footplates on locos, grotty beading on carriages, it just never looks right on a model. No matter what photo evidence exists, it always looks more like shoddy workmanship.

 

I am struggling to identify the prototype of the 4 wheeler. It doesn't look like one of "ours" (GNR/GCR).

 

The Howlden vehicles have much GNR character and I have a number of D & S kits stashed away, which will form a GNR period set one day. Were the metal disk wheels common on these types? The ones I have seen have usually had the wooden type.

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6 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I am struggling to identify the prototype of the 4 wheeler. It doesn't look like one of "ours" (GNR/GCR).

Is it the progenitor of the Hattons generic fleet?

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13 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

 

The Howlden vehicles have much GNR character and I have a number of D & S kits stashed away

There’s a nice fella in Australia that will gladly take them off your hands ;) 

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32 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Perhaps we should build such things from wood rather than brass, plastic or resin, so we can model the rotting panels that such vehicles often show. I don't know if it is just me but building something deliberately "wonky" just doesn't come easily, even if I know that the prototype was like that in reality. Bent handrails or footplates on locos, grotty beading on carriages, it just never looks right on a model. No matter what photo evidence exists, it always looks more like shoddy workmanship.

 

I am struggling to identify the prototype of the 4 wheeler. It doesn't look like one of "ours" (GNR/GCR).

 

The Howlden vehicles have much GNR character and I have a number of D & S kits stashed away, which will form a GNR period set one day. Were the metal disk wheels common on these types? The ones I have seen have usually had the wooden type.

Thanks Tony,

 

I think the original prototype for the four-wheeler was ex-NBR (meaning it's a little further south than expected - in fact, a lot further south!). 

 

The wheels? They were stock items, but, you're right, they should probably be wooden-centred. An easy change. 

 

Wonky modelling? 

 

268338208_D3062437benthandrail.jpg.2b738389b5bc0c0183a999f750c4a5ea.jpg

 

1999741386_D3462474benthandrail.jpg.b7ad7cc724356fa78c294aa4e877af48.jpg

 

Probably been seen before, but still relevant. 

 

I can only conclude that one dome-fitter at Haymarket must have been particularly porcine!

 

I'd never fit a handrail on a model as wonky as these........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's a transparency, and I've no idea how to scan it.

 

I'll investigate, though it probably will mean breaking the 'curfew'!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I can scan slides if necessary in any size up to A4. Postage to France wouldn't break quarantine rules.

 

Jamie

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1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

I can scan slides if necessary in any size up to A4. Postage to France wouldn't break quarantine rules.

 

Jamie

I'll have to see if I can find it.

 

Many thanks Jamie.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

There’s a nice fella in Australia that will gladly take them off your hands ;) 

 

Nasty Aussie wants my precious.........

 

Well he can't have 'em 'cos they is mine!

 

(Best said in a Gollum style hiss)

 

Sorry Jesse, I still have one more 4mm layout in me and the GNR stock will be needed. Along with the stash of GCR kits and some Midland ones too.

 

A few weeks at home might just see a bit of progress on it. It will be to the old "Manchester EM" standards, which are finer than present EM ones but will allow my more modern EM stuff to run on it too.

 

Here is a little taster.

 

DSCN2393.JPG.206bddeef623da98c578c5b4633e8941.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I think the original prototype for the four-wheeler was ex-NBR (meaning it's a little further south than expected - in fact, a lot further south!). 

 

The wheels? They were stock items, but, you're right, they should probably be wooden-centred. An easy change. 

 

Wonky modelling? 

 

268338208_D3062437benthandrail.jpg.2b738389b5bc0c0183a999f750c4a5ea.jpg

 

1999741386_D3462474benthandrail.jpg.b7ad7cc724356fa78c294aa4e877af48.jpg

 

Probably been seen before, but still relevant. 

 

I can only conclude that one dome-fitter at Haymarket must have been particularly porcine!

 

I'd never fit a handrail on a model as wonky as these........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Just what I mean. Imagine having the nerve to make a nice straight handrail, all parallel and level and then do that to it. I just couldn't bring myself. 

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1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

Just what I mean. Imagine having the nerve to make a nice straight handrail, all parallel and level and then do that to it. I just couldn't bring myself. 

 

Having spent a great deal of time recently, working through some large, on-line photo collections, I have been amazed at how often deformed boiler handrails appear.

 

I struggle to think of how this damage could occur; the only situation that occurred to me - beside overweight cleaners - was the temporary tying-up of valvegear components as a consequence of a failure.

 

Any thoughts, anyone?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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