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Tony Wright

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1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

See what I mean about the lighting and the focus! There are three 4-4-0 locos on Buckingham, the Pollitt example in your pictures, which was one of his first locos built in 1947. There were many very similar GCR types and I have never looked up what class it is but something like an LNER D6 seems about right. Then there is the D9 (GCR Class 11B) which was much later and is probably only 50 years old.

 

The third is my favourite Buckingham loco, the Sacre 4-4-0. The real loco was surely one of the most graceful and downright pretty locos ever to run in this country. The model one gets to run several times during the operating sequence and every time, I sit back and gaze at it gliding along with those outside cranks gently moving her along. Modelling bliss! This was a photo I took on what I thought would be my only chance to see Buckingham, back in 2008, when I got to visit Peter Denny and spend some magical time running the layout with him and chatting all things Great Central.757947220_Buckingham8th9thApril2008039.jpg.ae1a0fc0ab30763dbda7d660bf701ee5.jpg

A lovely model, Tony,

 

And, I did manage to get a couple of shots of it.......

 

 

769357632_Buckingham14.jpg.76d7fe4f8636023df7b85828491f8c9d.jpg

 

235185018_Buckingham18.jpg.9942a79c84e5f68c54fa5f9eb806419a.jpg

 

How did Peter get it to go round curves without the bogie fouling the outside frames?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

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Just now, jwealleans said:

If we're thinking they might be LNER or constituent

Not convinced any of them are.  In particular, the second vehicle, with its absence of a continuous horizontal immediately above and below the windows, is surely ex-LNW, or possibly Furness Railway, while the one behind it, with its high windows and external bracing to the bogies, looks distinctly L&Y to my eyes.

 

D

 

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20 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A lovely model, Tony,

 

And, I did manage to get a couple of shots of it.......

 

 

769357632_Buckingham14.jpg.76d7fe4f8636023df7b85828491f8c9d.jpg

 

235185018_Buckingham18.jpg.9942a79c84e5f68c54fa5f9eb806419a.jpg

 

How did Peter get it to go round curves without the bogie fouling the outside frames?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I was astonished that it will go round curves as it does. The smallest radius I have found, coming out of the fiddle yard, is as near to 2ft as I can measure. It was built as a 2-2-4-0. the leading "bogie" wheels run in a normal Denny pony truck, which is a tube for the axle to run in, with the mounting being a sprung wire soldered to the tube and to the lead casting hat forms the centre of the frames. The rear bogie wheels run in a tube which is lightly sprung in a vertical direction but has no lateral play or movement. The lead frame block ensures that the loco sits level and doesn't tilt forwards.

 

Like all the Buckingham locos with bogies or pony trucks, there is an application of Sellotape to the inside of the outside frames, footplate or anywhere else which might get a short on a tight curve. Not as durable as a smear of Araldite but some of it is so old and yellow that it might still be the original application, so it hasn't done badly.

 

I can look at photos of Buckingham nowadays and know if they are staged or part of the timetable. The 0-6-0T in Platform 2 with the coal trucks is an example. It can only have come from Leighton Buzzard or Grandborough sorting sidings but the coal wagons return from Leighton Buzzard empty, not full. It can't be shunting loaded wagons to Grandborough coal yard as the second wagon has loco coal and the loco coal wagon for Grandborough is already at the shed. So that is not a move I recognise at all.

 

The Railmotor ready to go to Leighton Buzzard in the bay is fine and the local service ready to return to Buckingham from Platform 3 with the empty horse box and prize cattle van (if they were full they would be at the front of the train) are all OK to set the time at around 3pm, just before they leave. Yet at that time, Set 1, pictured in Platform 1, should be at Marylebone, having passed through over an hour ago non stop.

 

So either the trains had been put in position especially for the photos or the operators had made a complete mess of the timetable!

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Tony suggested I posted an extract of this photo, taken near Coventry in  August 1937 as he was unable to help me in my request for details of the coaching stock.  It is a really strange working!  I am pretty sure they are not LMS (or constituent companies) stock, my 'guru' on Southern stuff says they are not his so does any of you guys know?

 

Note the lack of luggage or gaurds compartments except in the Stanier full brake.  The Patriot hauling it was operating displaying ordinary stopping passenger lamps.

 

Cheers Tony

coaches.jpg

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

they look mostly, LMS pre grouping and one LMS carriage to me. As for the headcode ( I can't see it to confirm), the LMS delved into practices that some would regard as unnatural.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

Not convinced any of them are.  In particular, the second vehicle, with its absence of a continuous horizontal immediately above and below the windows, is surely ex-LNW, or possibly Furness Railway, while the one behind it, with its high windows and external bracing to the bogies, looks distinctly L&Y to my eyes.

 

D

 

 

I was thinking perhaps a L&Y open third for carriage No 3, No 4 is a  PI corridor third. The leading two carriages have that double cornice effect that I associate with the Midland. A check through ref material would be required to confirm.

Edited by Headstock

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Interesting, I have several rakes of Bachmann Mk1’s and their Thompson coaches fitted with Kadees and haven’t experienced any problems.  The gaps between the coaches still open up on the curves then close back up together on straight track as intended.  But they are still relatively new, maybe problems develop with heavy use?

The whole train will tend to look more "of a piece" when rigid links/couplers are used. Keeping the CCUs firmly in line with one another helps each coach to stabilise its neighbours.  

 

Kadees generally work well enough in CCUs when the train is being pulled. When under tension, the side-play they allow doesn't usually cause trouble.

 

However, rigid links work that bit better, and the difference is much more apparent when propelling a rake fitted with Kadees over a crossover or a point followed by a reverse curve (e.g. into carriage sidings). Adjacent CCUs deflect toward the outside of the curve, then try to move quickly back the other way, and the behaviour of the coaches becomes somewhat unpredictable. Rigid links avoid any issues this can cause.

 

John 

 

 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Posted (edited)

Are LNER cab interiors 2-tone?

 

I thought it was, what ever was on the outside was also on the inside.

 

There may have been exceptions at individual works.

 

Nice to know an ordinary passenger train near Coventry does not contain 'Foreign Stock' as the NER might call it.

 

John

Edited by John Smart

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4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I was astonished that it will go round curves as it does. The smallest radius I have found, coming out of the fiddle yard, is as near to 2ft as I can measure. It was built as a 2-2-4-0. the leading "bogie" wheels run in a normal Denny pony truck, which is a tube for the axle to run in, with the mounting being a sprung wire soldered to the tube and to the lead casting hat forms the centre of the frames. The rear bogie wheels run in a tube which is lightly sprung in a vertical direction but has no lateral play or movement. The lead frame block ensures that the loco sits level and doesn't tilt forwards.

 

Like all the Buckingham locos with bogies or pony trucks, there is an application of Sellotape to the inside of the outside frames, footplate or anywhere else which might get a short on a tight curve. Not as durable as a smear of Araldite but some of it is so old and yellow that it might still be the original application, so it hasn't done badly.

 

I can look at photos of Buckingham nowadays and know if they are staged or part of the timetable. The 0-6-0T in Platform 2 with the coal trucks is an example. It can only have come from Leighton Buzzard or Grandborough sorting sidings but the coal wagons return from Leighton Buzzard empty, not full. It can't be shunting loaded wagons to Grandborough coal yard as the second wagon has loco coal and the loco coal wagon for Grandborough is already at the shed. So that is not a move I recognise at all.

 

The Railmotor ready to go to Leighton Buzzard in the bay is fine and the local service ready to return to Buckingham from Platform 3 with the empty horse box and prize cattle van (if they were full they would be at the front of the train) are all OK to set the time at around 3pm, just before they leave. Yet at that time, Set 1, pictured in Platform 1, should be at Marylebone, having passed through over an hour ago non stop.

 

So either the trains had been put in position especially for the photos or the operators had made a complete mess of the timetable!

 

 

Mike Kippax set up the trains for the photo shoot, Tony.

 

I can't believe it's over ten years ago! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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7 hours ago, Mark C said:

Tony

 

There's a cracking colour photo of 62589 in that condition/livery in this month's Steam World.  Please keep photos of the M&GN end coming...

 

Best regards 

Mark 

 

Thanks Mark,

 

'Please keep photos of the M&GN end coming...'

 

Tomorrow..............................

 

I've painted the D16/3 today, so we'll see what that looks like on the layout.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Good morning Tony, I'm a relative newcomer to RMWeb, and was completely unaware of your thread! am just having a quick look through some of the more recent posts and thought I would say hello!

I was also prompted to say hi after a conversation with our mutual friend Jesse Sim a few weeks ago on the LNER Modellers Facebook group. I don't interact much on here, something I'm going to change over the coming weeks as I have time off work to continue with my layout Richmond. 

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13 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

D2_8022.JPG

 

What a lovely looking model!

 

Can I please ask how common was this particular livery/lettering combination and in which years would it have been seen?   The reason for asking is that my roster includes a D11 in a similar red-lined black, but with unshaded yellow lettering and carrying a post 1946 number, but I am very dubious of its authenticity as I have not found any photographs showing this combination.  Shaded lettering with unlined black livery seems to have been the norm for the 4-4-0’s in the later LNER years, so my D11 is scheduled for the paint shop - though it does look very attractive as is!

 

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

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19 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

What a lovely looking model!

 

Can I please ask how common was this particular livery/lettering combination and in which years would it have been seen?   The reason for asking is that my roster includes a D11 in a similar red-lined black, but with unshaded yellow lettering and carrying a post 1946 number, but I am very dubious of its authenticity as I have not found any photographs showing this combination.  Shaded lettering with unlined black livery seems to have been the norm for the 4-4-0’s in the later LNER years, so my D11 is scheduled for the paint shop - though it does look very attractive as is!

 

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

It would be correct for pre war as in the above photo.

Post war which would be normally be unshaded Lettering , however shaded  was also used , I would be suprised if a D11 would have been lined out post war, ?? . e.g Hornby have done the post war Thompson B1 in lined Red on Black.

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1 hour ago, Wingman Mothergoose said:

Good morning Tony, I'm a relative newcomer to RMWeb, and was completely unaware of your thread! am just having a quick look through some of the more recent posts and thought I would say hello!

I was also prompted to say hi after a conversation with our mutual friend Jesse Sim a few weeks ago on the LNER Modellers Facebook group. I don't interact much on here, something I'm going to change over the coming weeks as I have time off work to continue with my layout Richmond. 

 

Welcome to the 'dark side', nice to see you on here. :D

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1 hour ago, Chamby said:

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

I don't believe LNER black locos ever had gold shaded lettering, Bachmann got that wrong, as have Hornby on various occasions. Green locos had gold lettering. Black locos had yellow lettering, shaded until 1946. After 1946 although the standard was plain Gill Sans yellow for black locos, old stocks of shaded yellow lettering were used up.

 

Andrew

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12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Mike Kippax set up the trains for the photo shoot, Tony.

 

I can't believe it's over ten years ago! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

If it was the photoshoot you did after Peter died, then yes it will be. I wasn't sure if that was the only time you photographed it in its Truro base. He passed away in December 2009 and the photo session would have been in the months after that, so early 2010. We have been running Buckingham here for around 8 years now. "Tempus fugit" if my memory of schoolboy Latin is anything like intact. 

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44 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Photo 6 Leicester South 10.35pm Manchester- Marylebone.jpg

 

Nice overall scene and great photo.

 

G

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19 hours ago, richard i said:

The first has a whiff of gcr Parker perhaps and the third looks a little ner in shape, perhaps also the fifth one back because of the trussing. I could be way off the mark though. Until I build a model of something I find it hard to pick up on all the little details to tell with huge certainty.  
fully expect others to tell you what they really are. 
richard 

Whilst looking through Wild Swans LMS in the 1930s picture book I came across a pic of a similar vehicle to third coach.  It is stated as a LYR open 3rd.  The first vehicle still has me stumped, it is those long grab handles!  Tony

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The leading carriage in that train is very likely a corridor vehicle, due to the toilet compartments at each end and the alarm gear on the end being stepped to raise it over what would presumably be a corridor connection on the end of the vehicle. Does that narrow it down?

 

The GER had similar arrangements on the carriage end but I don't think those grab handles are long enough for GER, which went right to the bottom of the carriage side.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Interesting to see Tony's and Graham's lovely D2 builds. I've been working on one of these myself as one of my 'lockdown projects'. This one is going to be 3049, fitted with J6 chimney and dome.

 

1964391915_D2Assembly25-4-20.jpg.96abd3164720bbc7114e4c3d482568ce.jpg

 

The body design work is just about done from a cosmetic perspective. However, working out how I'm going to power an N gauge model still requires some more consideration. I've had to juggle the coupled wheelbase at the rear by 0.5mm to allow everything to fit without resorting to stretching the body which I think won't be noticeable on the final model. 

Edited by Atso
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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Tony suggested I posted an extract of this photo, taken near Coventry in  August 1937 as he was unable to help me in my request for details of the coaching stock.  It is a really strange working!  I am pretty sure they are not LMS (or constituent companies) stock, my 'guru' on Southern stuff says they are not his so does any of you guys know?

 

Note the lack of luggage or gaurds compartments except in the Stanier full brake.  The Patriot hauling it was operating displaying ordinary stopping passenger lamps.

 

Cheers Tony

coaches.jpg


I think I've found a match for the leading carriage in this photograph of a Glasgow & South Western corridor third. Note the queenpost trussing of the underframe, the single panel between the toilet window and the quarterlight of the adjacent compartment. The killer identifier though, is the door grab-handles extending below the waist panels.

 

I'm pretty sure the second carriage is an ex-LNWR 50 ft 7 compartment corridor third to D267, built 1910-11 [D. Jenkinson, LNWR Carriages (2e, Pendragon, 1995) p. 95 and plate 111].

 

The third carriage definitely has a L&Y look about it - by their bogies shall ye know them. The L&Y built a "fireproof" 8-coach train, I think in response to the Aisgill accident; as far as I can glean these were mostly open carriages. They had steel panelling, which fits with what we see. The high-waisted picture windows with double toplights are characteristic of later-period L&Y design, giving them a surprisingly modern look [R.W. Rush, Lancashire & Yorkshire passenger Stock (Oakwood Press, 1984) p. 9]. 

 

From its underframe, I'm confident the fourth carriage is a standard LMS Period 1 corridor third, D1695.

 

The fifth carriage, with its "clipper" profile and lower-than-standard clerestory roof, is ex-Midland: one of the vestibuled (i.e. open) third class carriages built for excursion train use to D595, built in 1910 and 1913. It's probably from the the later batch of six, as the first batch were formed into close-coupled sets of three [R.E. Lacy & G. Dow, Midland Railway Carriages Vol. 2 (Wild Swan, 1986) p. 224 anf figs. 279-280].

 

Such a mixed bag of all third class carriages (assuming the L&Y carriage is an open third) along with the string of horseboxes in the rear suggests a race-day special of some sort, or possibly a troop train.

 

EDIT: reading through previous posts, @Headstock and @Darryl Tooley were before me with LNWR, L&Y, LMS Period 1, and Midland identifications.

Edited by Compound2632
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3 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

What a lovely looking model!

 

Can I please ask how common was this particular livery/lettering combination and in which years would it have been seen?   The reason for asking is that my roster includes a D11 in a similar red-lined black, but with unshaded yellow lettering and carrying a post 1946 number, but I am very dubious of its authenticity as I have not found any photographs showing this combination.  Shaded lettering with unlined black livery seems to have been the norm for the 4-4-0’s in the later LNER years, so my D11 is scheduled for the paint shop - though it does look very attractive as is!

 

Bachmann’s model of  ‘Luckie Mucklebackit’ produced a few years ago carried a red-lined black livery, but in this case with gold shaded lettering - again presumably an earlier period combination, but one I haven’t observed elsewhere.  

 

I found you this picture of 2661 at Neasden in 1947.

 

2661 (62661) Gerard Powys Dewhurst Neasden 10 April 1947

 

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Just now, Headstock said:

 

I found you this picture of 2661 at Neasden in 1947.

 

What is the carriage in the background? Some ex-GC type? (I'm not well up on those.)

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