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Tony Wright

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, dibateg said:

Yes - the cinder guards, I tried modelling them in 4mm scale by drilling holes in the cab side and soldering .3 brass wire and gluing a glazing strip in. Invariably the 'glass' pinged off the first time the loco was handled. So I substituted the glazing with  a fine strip of brass and painted it a vague gunmetal/silver colour. Not perfect by any means but at least there was something there and it was not too obtrusive. A small supplier of 7mm scale fittings produced some very nice cast ones ( I think they were actually made in the US ), like these things do, the range disappeared ( for the second time! ) . Fortunately I had exercised my philosophy of buying stuff when I see it available and bought in a stock of them. In O gauge, things come and go of the market quite quickly. Its an excuse to spend money....

 

Tony's photo of my K3 shows them

 

Regards

Tony

 

Thanks Tony,

 

that's a very nice looking K3. With regard to the transparent airborne and atmospheric particle deflectors, the equipping of class O1 doesn't seem to have been specific to Annesley. Even better, from my point of view, it seems to have been a late period only fashion that I can quite prototypically ignore. Yours look fine, being there but not too prominently so.

Edited by Headstock
cut down on repeat images.

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Doug,

 

Programming a chip? Turning the back EMF on or off? Changing the start voltage? Tuning a chip? CVs?

 

What are these mysteries? 

 

As with DCC's propaganda, I just have two wires! One goes to one side of a loco's motor, and the other to the opposite side. I turn a knob and off it goes..........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good morning Tony,

 

Might I suggest that another view is to be astonished at the lengths that some modellers go to to build their own locomotives!  The techniques that you use, the lengths that you go to, the work that has to be undertaken to simply get a model on the track...

 

What are these mysteries?

 

I just have to spend less money, open the box, fix a few detailing parts, place it on the track, turn the knob and off it goes........

 

DCC is more elaborate than DC control and it takes skill and effort to get it right.    In many respects it is no different to your locomotive kit building, it is just a different but equally absorbing aspect of the hobby.  Adjusting the drive characteristics, being able to turn things on and off remotely such as lamps and sounds, etc etc, all add a different aspect of operation and isa speciality of modelling expertise, just as what you do is.

 

For sure, there are many who don’t really know what they are doing with DCC, and reliability of operation will suffer.  As a firm DCC advocate, I squirm sometimes at what I observe with some digitally controlled exhibition layouts.  But equally, you have openly vowed not to take on kit built locomotives that others have previously built, because of the lack of competence of the builder.

 

As we have said many times before, each to his own!

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53 minutes ago, Chamby said:

I just have to spend less money, open the box, fix a few detailing parts, place it on the track, turn the knob and off it goes........

 

 

...... usually pulling a train far shorter than the prototype - because out-of-the-box RTR hasn't got the traction to match the prototype.

 

If the electronic aspects hold more appeal than actual modelling, fine - but it isn't modelling as I understand it.

 

John Isherwood.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

For sure, there are many who don’t really know what they are doing with DCC, and reliability of operation will suffer.  As a firm DCC advocate, I squirm sometimes at what I observe with some digitally controlled exhibition layouts.  But equally, you have openly vowed not to take on kit built locomotives that others have previously built, because of the lack of competence of the builder.

 

As we have said many times before, each to his own!

You and Tony make your points well. 

For what I understand of LB's operation, DCC wouldn't actually add much because most trains tend to run through non-stop and at near constant speed.  As you've said the benefits of DCC aren't often best demonstrated or exploited by many users, who perhaps have it as it is "the thing to have".  Likewise most RTR users wouldn't exploit the haulage benefits of a metal kit-built loco because their trains are shorter and composed of lighter, free-running RTR stock.  Plus if there is a hierarchy of difficulty in "making things" for model railways, building a loco kit WELL has to be near the top of the ladder.

Personally I cannot see me taking up DCC for the foreseeable future as the operation I aspire to wouldn't best use of it.  Plus, most of my models date from the 1970s/80s, which is nearer the three-rail era than the DCC era.  I won't replace most of them because (a) I'm too tight and (b) most of them I have a sentimental attachment to.  Taking up DCC and buying all the latest £200 DCC-fitted locomotives would be as pointless as me buying a new Range Rover for all its off-road capability because once every five years, it snows a bit.

 

Rob

Edited by Northmoor
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21 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I think that's a very narrow view John. I've asked this question here before but I'll ask it again:

 

"Who is the better modeller - the one who runs scratchbuilt trains on RTR track or the one who runs RTR trains on hand-built track?"

 

Neither, in my opinion - they are both railway modellers. Full Stop.

 

The best thing to do would be to post up examples of both, then people could make up their own minds without offending anybody else. Otherwise, its so abstract a statement, it doesn't mean anything.

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3 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Yep, I've got a Dapol N gauge one of those (28xx) and I'm not sure why or where it came from. It's certainly not suitable for my planned proper model railway.

;-)

 

 

 

 

Hmm a 28xx is well suitable for my era.

 

I had forgotten 2857 1985 mainline run.

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Cinder guards ??   Didn't need such appendages when they built proper stuff at Swindon,

presumably on the basis they reckoned to burn the coal provided in the firebox- simples eh!

 

Chris Knight

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2 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Good morning Tony,

 

Might I suggest that another view is to be astonished at the lengths that some modellers go to to build their own locomotives!  The techniques that you use, the lengths that you go to, the work that has to be undertaken to simply get a model on the track...

 

What are these mysteries?

 

I just have to spend less money, open the box, fix a few detailing parts, place it on the track, turn the knob and off it goes........

 

DCC is more elaborate than DC control and it takes skill and effort to get it right.    In many respects it is no different to your locomotive kit building, it is just a different but equally absorbing aspect of the hobby.  Adjusting the drive characteristics, being able to turn things on and off remotely such as lamps and sounds, etc etc, all add a different aspect of operation and isa speciality of modelling expertise, just as what you do is.

 

For sure, there are many who don’t really know what they are doing with DCC, and reliability of operation will suffer.  As a firm DCC advocate, I squirm sometimes at what I observe with some digitally controlled exhibition layouts.  But equally, you have openly vowed not to take on kit built locomotives that others have previously built, because of the lack of competence of the builder.

 

As we have said many times before, each to his own!

Good afternoon Phil,

 

'What are these mysteries?

 

I just have to spend less money, open the box, fix a few detailing parts, place it on the track, turn the knob and off it goes....'

 

I build my own locos because how they run is my responsibility and they'll pull very heavy, prototype-length trains; which, with regard to the latter point the RTR stuff won't do (steam-outline), with the exception of the Heljan O2 (in my experience).

 

And, where can one open an RTR box and put the (BR) likes of the A1/1, an A2/1, A2/2 and A2/3 (at the moment), A5, A6, A7, A8, B2, B7, B12/2, B16 (of all three types), C12, C13, C14, D2, D3, D9, D10, E4, several Fs, G5 (at the moment), J1, J2, J3, J4, J5, J6, several other Js, K2, K4, K5, L3, N1, O1, O2/1, O2/2 (at the moment), O4/5, O4/6, O4/7, O4/8, Q1, T1, U1, V4, W1 (at the moment), plus numerous Ys.....? I'm bound to have missed some out.

 

To some (and I accept this), fiddling about with highly-complex (and hugely-expensive) electronic gadgetry is every bit 'railway modelling' as what I do. 

 

It's just not for me. I've yet to be convinced that the running is actually improved by DCC (electronics won't cure poor mechanics), some steam sounds are more like a piece of sandpaper running over a cam (where I have heard that before?) and as for the cost, well. LB has around 200 kit-built locos on it, none of which was ever built with DCC in mind - which means many brass/nickel silver boilers packed with lead! Even abstracting sound as a feature, what's a 'decent' decoder cost? Multiply that by 200! 

 

No thank you.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

I think that's a very narrow view John. I've asked this question here before but I'll ask it again:

 

"Who is the better modeller - the one who runs scratchbuilt trains on RTR track or the one who runs RTR trains on hand-built track?"

 

Neither, in my opinion - they are both railway modellers. Full Stop.

Are these mutually-exclusive John?

 

What about scratch-built (kit-built) trains running on hand-built track? 

 

Or RTR everything? Where the guy/girl just does it for fun? Not that I don't derive a great deal of fun from my own modelling. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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For the record, I do not believe that DCC is ‘better than’ DC, or that building your own locomotives is ‘better than’ using RTR locomotives.  Not everybody has the time, ability, expertise or resources to excel at every aspect of the hobby.  

 

We tend to focus on the stuff we like doing the best, where our own expertise lies.  I have a huge respect for those who model in areas and ways that I don’t, which is precisely why I lurk in these pages.  The diversity of ability is phenomenal on here, I learn a great deal about stuff I am inexpert about, some of which I can only wonder at, other stuff which prompts me to do more and give it a try myself.  

 

There are many dark arts in this hobby.  I have yet to meet a master of them all!

 

Phil

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Andrew

 

No it isn't.

 

If someone gets fun out the hobby called railway modelling then they are true railway modellers.

 

Some of us, me included, do make our own models and use RTR, but I never consider myself better than the man/woman who relies on RTR or inferior to the man/woman who builds everything themselves. Aspiring to achieve something like building all your own stock should be a personal goal not one to compare fellow modellers by.

 

Clive,

 

that has nothing to do with my post.

 

 

I was simply rejecting the idea that there was no such thing as good or bad railway modelling, as expressed in an abstract concept. That may be popular, but  ignores practical reality. For example, ditch the abstract and poor running is bad modelling, whatever way you spin it.

Edited by Headstock
add capitol letter. remove,

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3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I think that's a very narrow view John. I've asked this question here before but I'll ask it again:

 

"Who is the better modeller - the one who runs scratchbuilt trains on RTR track or the one who runs RTR trains on hand-built track?"

 

Neither, in my opinion - they are both railway modellers. Full Stop.

 

I would agree - but what about the guy who runs RTR trains on RTL track, and spends most of his time tweaking DCC functions?

 

.... not that there is anything wrong with that third option, but I find it hard to identify the modelling element in such activities.

 

John Isherwood.

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5 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I would agree - but what about the guy who runs RTR trains on RTL track, and spends most of his time tweaking DCC functions?

 

.... not that there is anything wrong with that third option, but I find it hard to identify the modelling element in such activities.

 

John Isherwood.

presumably they'll have carried out some modelling activities such as ballasting or creating buildings and landscape?

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4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I think that's a very narrow view John. I've asked this question here before but I'll ask it again:

 

"Who is the better modeller - the one who runs scratchbuilt trains on RTR track or the one who runs RTR trains on hand-built track?"

 

Neither, in my opinion - they are both railway modellers. Full Stop.

 

Please note - at no point did I suggest that anyone was a better modeller than anyone else.

 

The point that I was making - and it is simply my opinion - is that the increasingly popular activity of running RTR trains on RTL track, and confining most of one's time to fiddling with expensive electronics, is not my idea of railway modelling.

 

As has been said, though - each to their own.

 

John Isherwood.

 

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5 minutes ago, jacko said:

presumably they'll have carried out some modelling activities such as ballasting or creating buildings and landscape?

 

Not necessarily, from what I've seen on many YouTube postings, etc.

 

John Isherwood.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

Tony ,

     In your post yesterday . about 20 hours ago , one of the 2-8-0 photos was of 02/3  63987  on L.B.. Well if I can  ! , I will  attach a photo of myself on that engine approaching the bank down to Highdyke on the Standby branch , with loaded iron ore tipplers . Taken by Colin Walker in july '63.

I may have posted this photo before . Not sure .

 

Regards , Roy .18264573_02approachingHighdykedownloadedtrain63987adjcpyrtMR.jpg.6a841e41513a5e0e1cd8bb27e54f2a16.jpg

 .

885945038_02approachingHighdykedownloadedtrain63987adjfireman.jpg.c9884911cc161660895231848bfd2e14.jpg

02 approaching Highdyke down loaded train 63987 adj fireman.jpg

What a great picture Roy,

 

Many thanks.

 

It shows that not all O2s which worked the branch were tablet-catching-fitted (was it only the GNR tenders which had these?).

 

What it also shows is that one doesn't have to bother buying transfer sheets for BR numbers or emblems - at least in this case. It also shows that my model of 63987 might not be dirty enough!

 

And, what's the disc to the right of the picture, and the gadget by the track to the left?

 

Anyway, some further shots which I hope bring back memories.......

 

1468846479_63987O23GranthamMPD13-07-63.jpg.b72c6d3a69d510ca2a746c75ec1011b5.jpg

 

At Grantham not long before the shed closed.

 

1836766694_63987RetfordMay1956.jpg.3ef2a072da624958a6e6e4447953c96d.jpg

 

And at Retford in happier times. 

 

224855094_63987Retford.jpg.232f53e1b8ad7cf3e44dc46476c163df.jpg

 

Also at Retford, at the flat crossing. It was a Retford (36E) loco at the time. 

 

Please (all) respect copyright restrictions.

 

And two more pictures of my 63987.....

 

345766816_HeljanO2modifications26.jpg.679bf2a8bc464308b0b64992782886e9.jpg

 

You look to be taking a rest.

 

363023906_HeljanO2modifications27.jpg.3b05538fc902c8984def885312f9f259.jpg

 

 

Did Geoff Haynes make it dirty enough?

 

I hope you and Pat are keeping safe.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
to clarify a point
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42 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Clive,

 

that has nothing to do with my post.

 

 

I was simply rejecting the idea that there was no such thing as good or bad railway modelling, as expressed in an abstract concept. That may be popular, but  ignores practical reality. For example, ditch the abstract and poor running is bad modelling, whatever way you spin it.

I strive to have good running, despite my recent video of Pig Lane. I also enjoy making my own models. I have fun with my train set.

 

If the geezer next door has all RTR and his train set runs badly compared to my preceived ideals but he is still having fun then he is an equal.

 

If the geezer the other side of me has a model railway of a real location, all stock has been built by him and nothing ever goes wrong and is having fun then he is my equal.

 

We all set our own standards and they should be our own and not forced on others.

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36 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I would agree - but what about the guy who runs RTR trains on RTL track, and spends most of his time tweaking DCC functions?

 

.... not that there is anything wrong with that third option, but I find it hard to identify the modelling element in such activities.

 

John Isherwood.

If tweaking functions allows them to program and control their trains so that they operate realistically (with/without sound) I think that certainly constitutes modelling.  As has been stated many times on this thread, realistic operation* is often noticeable by its absence, especially on many club layouts. 

 

*Realistic = approaching, stopping and drawing up to couple to stationary stock, not crashing into it and shoving it 50' down the platform; accelerating away at realistic speeds, not like a racing motorcycle, etc.  Having said that, I recently witnessed, on an exhibited DCC roundy-roundy, one moving train being driven into the back of another moving train.... 

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22 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I strive to have good running, despite my recent video of Pig Lane. I also enjoy making my own models. I have fun with my train set.

 

If the geezer next door has all RTR and his train set runs badly compared to my preceived ideals but he is still having fun then he is an equal.

 

If the geezer the other side of me has a model railway of a real location, all stock has been built by him and nothing ever goes wrong and is having fun then he is my equal.

 

We all set our own standards and they should be our own and not forced on others.

 

Again, not my post Clive.

 

Striving is an admirable quality.

 

I have made no mention of geezers or RTR, nor their standards or equality under the sun.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I strive to have good running, despite my recent video of Pig Lane. I also enjoy making my own models. I have fun with my train set.

 

If the geezer next door has all RTR and his train set runs badly compared to my preceived ideals but he is still having fun then he is an equal.

 

If the geezer the other side of me has a model railway of a real location, all stock has been built by him and nothing ever goes wrong and is having fun then he is my equal.

 

We all set our own standards and they should be our own and not forced on others.

I'd be horrified if any of the correspondents on here were 'forcing' their standards on others. 

 

I'm also not quite sure about the notion of 'equality'. I'll explain; about 12 years ago, I had a hernia operation. Nothing complicated and not life-threatening, but any invasive surgery has risks. 

 

The op' was entirely successful, and I was able to bowl again after a couple of months. What's this got to do with equality? Well, the surgeon was one of a very small percentage of highly-intelligent, highly-gifted and highly-qualified individuals, who have very few 'equals'. 

 

I know this example is tenuous compared with railway modelling, but I make sure my models are painted by the best in the business. Model painters who have few equals. 

 

I also made sure my scenic-side trackwork was made/laid by the best in the business as well. Very few can equal what Norman Solomon achieves. 

 

I don't have the slightest problem with folk deriving pleasure from their modelling. One could argue that those who just assemble RTR stuff have much more fun than those who pore over books and never really assemble anything, as they wait for the final piece of evidence to appear (which never will). 

 

But I don't hold with this idea of 'equality'. If that were the case, I'd have bowled for England!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
typo error
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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Quote

And, what's the disc to the right of the picture, and the gadget by the track to the left?

I think perhaps the "thing" to the left could be the start/finish sign for a tsr?

As for the disc on the right - no idea, though it does look rather like one of those stop/go boards that roadworkers use!

 

Stewart

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by stewartingram
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