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Tony Wright

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10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

What is the effect you're trying to achieve, Chris?

 

A heavily-weathered carriage? It seems to have turned lighter to the right, or is this the lighting?

 

Where possible nowadays, I paint the carriages I build with Halfords car acrylic rattle cans, using appropriate colours (Ford Burgundy Red for BR maroon, for instance). 

 

In the case of Mailcoach carriages, where, to me, spray-painting is not an option, I use enamels applied with sables. 

 

1386448025_ex-SilverJubileetriplet.jpg.a87cbce4db8e677c3b1412fdc28f00bf.jpg

 

This ex-Silver Jubilee triplet was painted using Winsor and Newton's sables applying Railmatch BR maroon enamel (several coats), transfer-lined and finished off with a coat of polyurethane satin varnish; again, sable-applied.

 

722054640_TouristBSOonlayout03.jpg.8d9787625e9b5afdefbefe3a980f2bc3.jpg

 

This Tourist BTO had the same treatment.

 

I stress again, I don't think a decent brush-applied finish can be achieved with cheap brushes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Morning .Tony, 
Yes, the effect I was after was a heavily weathered carriage. The light in my dining room wasn’t the best for photos last night, so I’ve taken another this morning 

33F64B22-3F77-4444-BFA5-213A1B1C0851.jpeg.6ca03360d056130b75306d6c5db52543.jpeg

I’m fairly happy with it for a first attempt, but it’s probably a bit too heavy when carriages were cleaned on a regular basis. I used my last serviceable brush to do it, so I do need to invest in some half decent paint brushes in the near future! Limited by funds on what I can spend though unfortunately. I did a couple of panels on the other side of the coach with a Humbrol brown wash, just to see how it turned out....

54013DF5-B81A-46D3-AD37-FBCA22F078DF.jpeg.15f8fd1bb664778817306f657e8cdbb8.jpeg

First time for using a wash or dry brushing, as apart from spraying my kit built coaches with rattle cans, my experience of painting models is limited to a teenage me covering Airfix fighter jet kits with what I thought was a really awesome looking camouflage paint job....
 

Chris

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18 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Yes, I can vouch for that.  I helped with the overhaul at the end of the 1970s/early 80s and a lot of the motion was stamped 60026.

The rear driver's side coupling rod on LMS No.5000 In Locomotion at Shildon is stamped 'AW&Co'.

I have taken great delight in pointing this out to visitors after a colleague pointed it out to me.

 

There is a splendid picture (somewhere) of a Q6 hauling a delivery train of brand-new 'Black 5s' from AW westwards on the N&C. That would make a splendid model.

 

There is also quite a nice collection of numbers stamped on the motion and side-rods of 'Green Arrow'.

 

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I'm deliberately saying nothing about the way to produce teak-effect painting. My own method tends to involve an inconvenient number of stages, and following the withdrawal of one of the products I liked to use some years ago, I have repeatedly been annoyed by inconsistent final shade of colours and less than perfectly smooth finish. It does at least tend to look good enough once the lining and transfers are applied.

 

Plenty of trials on test pieces before committing to a cherished model would seem to be a sensible plan for anybody to follow, regardless of proposed methods.

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As an alternative - or additional - technique for teaking, I offer the enclosed as an example of what I've ended up doing for the small amount of such vehicles I've produced for Grantham. After the application of a conventional paint finish, the final act is to apply teak wood stain(!) which has a sort of nice ring to it.

 

It's a tricky process and I do not for one minute regard that I have mastered it to any great extent but it does provide for some variation and, most importantly, allow the grain direction to be depicted. Simply draw the brush along each panel in turn in the direction of the grain.

 

The finish on the vehicle depicted can only be described as 'fresh out of shops' and is arguably still too uniform. But I offer it up as an idea to try out for anyone interested.

6-wheelers24.JPG

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20 hours ago, FarrMan said:

I thought so. i wonder if anyone has tried it with paint thinned down?

 

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:
10 hours ago, ianathompson said:

Having extensively used these pens when drawing the diagrams for my thesis, long ago, I would not have thought that paint was a viable option, evern when thinned down.

 

They were prone to gumming up even with Rotring ink and needed constant cleaning, which involved dismantling the nibs.

This was alright on the larger diameter ones but resulted in more than one of the finer nibs becoming broken/unusable.

 

I ordered enough on "expenses" to keep some for railway purposes and found a good opaque white ink for lettering but I have not used them for ages now.

 

Hope that this is of interest.

 

Ian T

In the good old bad old days before Woodhead transfers I used to hand-letter 00 gauge wagons using a 0.1mm Rotring nib with Rotring white ink. Any other brand of ink gummed the nib up solid. Even with Rotring ink, I needed to clean it every hour or so.

 

I admit I haven't done lining with pens for many years, but two things I remember:

 

1.  When using anything other than 'proper' drawing pen ink, Faber Castell draughting pens were far superior to Rotring, partly because the nib dismantled more conveniently to clean the helix etc., and the metals the nibs were made from dragged less and didn't allow pigments to build up on them so much.

 

2.  I used to use Speedry Opaque Magic Color (I've just Googled it, and it is still available in a variety of colours, appropriate for lining several liveries).  It's a genuinely opaque acrylic medium that works a treat in draughting pens - or at least it used to - looking at the advert on Amazon just now it looks the same stuff, but paints and inks these days have a habit of having their formulae changed and never quite being as good as they used to be, so I can't guarantee it.  The bottles come with a useful pipette in the lid and seem to average around £7 each (in my experience a bottle will last many years - I still have many of mine from 25 years ago or more and I've just checked them and the contents are fine).  Worth a try?

 

Pete T.

 

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I may have missed it on this thread for which I apologise but if not Mike Trice has a series of videos on his methods. They have given me the confidence to try.

 

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, PJT said:

I used to use Speedry Opaque Magic Color

 

 If I remember rightly this was where the white came from that I used to use, although I thought that they spelt it as "Opake".

It was good quality stuff but I accept the caveat regarding modern stuff.

I have problems in other areas in trying to match modern dyes with ones produced years ago, even though they are supposed to be the same products.

They obviously aren't or the chemical composition of Tetrion has changed!

 

48918815523_75b377c6ac_z.jpg6-19 by Ian Thompson, on Flickr

 

I am sure that the modelling standards, and perhaps the choice of prototype, will appal all and sundry but the last wagon illustrates a point. 

The info panel in the bottom right hand corner was done years ago with Opake, as were the chalk marks, and it is still clear.

The wagon numbers are important to me as I operate using a homespun variation of the American "car card" systems.

The number on the door, which is a nod to declining eyesight, was done more recently in a modern white gel pen.

This was much more convenient to use but it is not anything like as opaque as its misspelt namesake and required two or three passes to be readable.

 

Don't go asking for white gel pens in your local staionery store.

There was some problem (I don't suspect that they sold too many!) and so production was terminated.

At least I bought two or three during the short window when they were available and I will soldier on with them for the foreseeable future.

 

Ian T

Edited by ianathompson
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19 hours ago, Northmoor said:

The aviation would have you believe they have always worked to much greater standards, but my experience of the abandoned Nimrod MRA4 programme would suggest otherwise.  These airframes dated back to the days of the DH Comet and one of the many, many problems affecting the rebuilds were no two were the same, so what should have been a standard fitment became a series of custom-builds.  It was said that the variation in some dimensions between airframes could be measured in inches.

 

Edit: Thanks to Willie Whizz for recording the same story earlier, I hadn't caught up that far in the thread.  The Nimrod programme was a disaster from beginning to end though.........

 

15 hours ago, PMP said:

 

More recently, the Shorts Belfast built Tucano trainers were equally variable in their build quality, the riggers having many stories of trying to get them ‘square’, particularly the early ones.

 

Without doubt this is true for older airframes built in the pre-CAD / CAM days. Things are much more accurate and repeatable now. My anecdote stems from a visit to BAE Dunsfold in 1999.  I had to trial fit an electronics bay gasket that my company had made to fit the Sea Harrier FA2. There were two types of airframe. The new build FA2. All the gaskets fitted the panel shape and hole positions within a millimetre. All the airframes that were being upgraded from Sea Harrier FR1 to FA2 were awful. Every one was different and I don’t recall getting a gasket to fit on half a dozen airframes that we looked at. Airframe construction was certainly the coach builders art up until the late 1980s and arguably still is but probably only for the home builder of light aircraft.

 

cheers...Morgan

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... and one was hit by a V2.   

 

Here is 65562, the one I built, on a special at Ramsey.  There were only a very few vac fitted ones.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

As an alternative - or additional - technique for teaking, I offer the enclosed as an example of what I've ended up doing for the small amount of such vehicles I've produced for Grantham. After the application of a conventional paint finish, the final act is to apply teak wood stain(!) which has a sort of nice ring to it.

 

It's a tricky process and I do not for one minute regard that I have mastered it to any great extent but it does provide for some variation and, most importantly, allow the grain direction to be depicted. Simply draw the brush along each panel in turn in the direction of the grain.

 

The finish on the vehicle depicted can only be described as 'fresh out of shops' and is arguably still too uniform. But I offer it up as an idea to try out for anyone interested.

6-wheelers24.JPG

Graham

This model of what I presume is an etched brass Dia 148 raises an interesting question. There are two gas lamps over the toilets which seems logical as there were two separate toilets but no ventilators. My model of Dia 148 shown on the previous page and now here again for comparison has only one gas lamp and two ventilators as printed on the roof by Bill.  This doesn't really make sense to me as the single gas lamp flue is actually over the dividing wall between the toilets. I wonder if someone can provide any enlightenment as I've yet to find a photo of  a real one?

 

526546198_IMG_0311ps.jpg.7646bce14f17bdeb4c612b2247913fc0.jpg

Interestingly, I discovered after I got mine from Bill, that the GNRS publications on the Howlden coaches (that I only got earlier this year) showed that all 4 of these Dia 148s were cascaded to the M&GN by 1912 so doesn't suit my layout (or Grantham for that matter) its a good thing we have Rule 1! The GNRS publications also shed some interesting light on numbering which I assume is more accurate than some of what is provided in the D&S kits I've built so I'll be needing to change some numbers on my other 6 wheelers!

 

Andrew

Edited by Woodcock29
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1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

... and one was hit by a V2.   

 

Here is 65562, the one I built, on a special at Ramsey.  There were only a very few vac fitted ones.

Thanks Jonathan,

 

Mine will be 65551, as pictured at the top of page 26 of the appropriate Yeadon. In BR days it was shedded at Yarmouth Beach, Melton Constable and Norwich, so operating from the first two sheds, might it have ventured west of South Lynn? That's my supposition, anyway.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The Crownline J17 is 'finished' - for now!

 

827117754_J1710.jpg.11fa7cb0cd9d8d247a6fbb5d8bc2a0aa.jpg

 

650565394_J1711.jpg.f3bb3a6cba662897cecde2fb3fb2fba4.jpg

 

There's still an awful lot of cleaning up to do. After that's been achieved, I'll 'fit' the boiler bands, using my usual method of self-adhesive insulation tape, cut to the correct width. I puzzle why folk solder cladding bands on - I've only ever made a mess, and they come out too thick, anyway. As for cleaning off the excess solder afterwards.........

 

What I tend to do is 'live' with a model for a while before either I paint it (as will be this case) or it goes to Ian Rathbone or Geoff Haynes. That way, after thorough testing, I hope I'll be satisfied enough for it to be painted. I've hinted at the sandbox-operating rods, and I might fit sandpipes; we'll see. 

 

Apart from the missing firebox, the kit was complete. However, just be wary of buying second-hand kits; at first glance everything might appear to be there, but that's not always the case.

 

With the completion of this model, that makes the four I bought of Roy Jackson's estate last October all finished. I rebuilt the A5 and the L1, making OO frames for them, then painted, lined/numbered and weathered them. I built the B16/3 (after Roy had un-built parts of it), and that's now with Geoff Haynes for painting. Had the great man survived, might the quartet still have been in their crumbling boxes? 

 

Looking through my equally-crumbling Ian Allan abc for 1957, no J17 is underlined. By the time I got into ex-GE territory, there was very little steam left. Thus, this model breaks my usual practice of only building models of locos I actually saw. Still, it'll suit the M&GNR bit of LB - J17s were common at Spalding, but whether they got further westwards in numbers might require a bit of Rule 1! 

 

There were several variations in the class.....

 

82585652_J1765515March.jpg.40b3cde7085ec7feb0d06e472a468556.jpg

 

Some towed small tenders (and had their cabside numbers applied by very small painters!). 

 

416688657_J1765568Cambridge.jpg.5984776be44762608f8b5866ea920bda.jpg

 

One or two had weather boards on their tenders for reverse running. 

 

967231069_J1765541March.jpg.6334938b66e5b91c14eee2fe7a072e1b.jpg

 

All in all, a pretty-typical British 0-6-0. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a prototype picture of a vacuum-fitted one. 

 

 

 

 

 

I can answer one of your questions Tony. Had Roy still been around, the locos would still have been unfinished. Towards the end of his life, he had totally lost his confidence in his ability and rather than do a job less well than he used to, he would rather not do it at all. So he would sit and look at things, pick them up and put them down and do almost nothing. His hands had started to be unsteady and eyesight was so bad that he couldn't tell a straight line from a curved one any more due to the thickness of his glasses.

 

In many ways, it was sad to see somebody with his previous skill and ability struggle like that.

 

Looking at the prototype J17, The boiler bands on the first two are almost invisible. On the third one, you can just see the one ahead of the dome but the others can hardly be made out.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Headstock said:

When incapacitated and feeling a bit glum, I was inspired by Rowanj (John) and his amazing thread, his adventures with North Eastern carriages and brown paint. It got me of my bum and finish of the BZ I started months ago. Seen in two-tone lock down economy primmer and finished finish, almost.

BZ TWO TONE UNDECOAT.jpg

NER BZ Electric light2.jpg

 

With the previous discussion about teak finishes, I would just like to say how much I like the finish on that. A very nice "painted teak brown" finish rather than a representation of varnished wood, it really does look right. 

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30 minutes ago, Headstock said:

Due to unwellness, I haven't been able to do any painting since last October, banned from dangerous particles. Now I'm back, appropriate that I should return with a big block of wood, not teak and a Quint of a different nature. I only build things, so I can slosh some paint about.

 

LNER Quint D no1.jpg

LNER Quint D no2.jpg

LNER Quint D no3.jpg

 

 

You beat me to it!!  I'm currently building two of these - I bought the second because I liked the first kit so much.  You might think that given the long mouldings (bodysides, solebars, truss rods) that it could be difficult to build squarely - not so.  I was going to substitute the buffers for Dave Franks' version too, but the kit buffers look really good (fiddly, but good).  Mine will be finished in 60's British Railways condition.  There's a useful photo in June's Model Rail showing one with a runner as described in the kit's instructions.

 

Elsewhere, also as a result of lockdown, I have been marrying Parkside's BR 24.5t mineral wagon bodies with the underframes from their 21t hopper wagons (with only slight modifications).  The mineral wagon is an early kit and the later underframes (especially the brakegear) are that much more refined.

 

At this rate I'm going to have to lay some track to store all this new stock - two end-to-end Quints are 17" long...

 

Mark

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Mark C said:

 

 

You beat me to it!!  I'm currently building two of these - I bought the second because I liked the first kit so much.  You might think that given the long mouldings (bodysides, solebars, truss rods) that it could be difficult to build squarely - not so.  I was going to substitute the buffers for Dave Franks' version too, but the kit buffers look really good (fiddly, but good).  Mine will be finished in 60's British Railways condition.  There's a useful photo in June's Model Rail showing one with a runner as described in the kit's instructions.

 

Elsewhere, also as a result of lockdown, I have been marrying Parkside's BR 24.5t mineral wagon bodies with the underframes from their 21t hopper wagons (with only slight modifications).  The mineral wagon is an early kit and the later underframes (especially the brakegear) are that much more refined.

 

At this rate I'm going to have to lay some track to store all this new stock - two end-to-end Quints are 17" long...

 

Mark

 

 

Good evening Mark,

 

Yes, they are big b*****s, carriage sized, but a really nice kit. You may get there before me, I have three more Quints to paint, one being an example of 'cross kitting', to produce the steel bodied version. There is also, one LNER Boplate and one ex MOD/NER Boplate, four plate wagons, one trestle and five double bolsters. I shall be taking my time, hopefully with a few nice diversions thrown in.

 

Edited by Headstock
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28 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Mark,

 

Yes, they are big b*****s, carriage sized, but a really nice kit. You may get there before me, I have three more Quints to paint, one being an example of 'cross kitting', to produce the steel bodied version. There is also, one LNER Boplate and one ex MOD/NER Boplate, four plate wagons, one trestle and five double bolsters. I shall be taking my time, hopefully with a few nice diversions thrown in.

 

 

Hello

 

I'd like to see your steel bodied version and how you tackled it.  I'll post some WIP photos of mine tomorrow...

 

Mark 

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I'm glad you mention the variation in the BR green Tony . I've often thought some of your engines are of a strange shade of colour to what I remember . I'll not say which . Just my own view .

The other topic of ageing , unsteady hands etc. I can certainly identify with . Just have to be grateful to be beyond the biblical three score years and ten and enjoy what we can do . I feel blessed to be able to remember the last golden years of the everyday bustle of steam , and being a small part of it .

 

Keep well .  Regards , Roy .

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I, too, saw the demise in Roy's confidence due to failing faculties. 

 

I suppose this is an inevitability awaiting us all. I know I've built my 'best' model - years ago. That's not to say it couldn't be bettered (far from it) but it was the 'happy equation' of experience balancing out diminishing abilities. There were probably several 'best models' (which is grammatically-daft, I know), built at around the same period of time (around the turn of the century and into the noughties), but during the teens of this century, I know my experience (which is always growing)  cannot balance my  diminishing faculties (which are growing at a faster rate than my experience!). The J17 is evidence of this; where I was prepared to fudge something rather than do it properly (thankfully, I 'saved' it due to correct, critical comments). 'Saved' it might be, but my soldering isn't as neat as it once was. 

 

By way of an illustration of what I mean, using A1s I've built down the years........

 

1953740720_60116onNorthumbrian.jpg.b5c069d69a818c65ee3ffad8df9f54ff.jpg

 

This is the oldest DJH I own which I've built, now over 30 years old. Previous ones I'd built, I'd painted myself and were for customers. Once I got to know Ian Rathbone, the limitations of my painting were cruelly-exposed. Thus, he painted this one.

 

When Stoke Summit hit the exhibition trail in the mid-'90s, I built several A1s for use on it.

 

Including these.......

 

130410037_60117tunnelnearerlarge.jpg.08b42fab7c6089453efa052f0e519df7.jpg

 

329500845_6013002.jpg.7d9586993cc7d5b15e9a98c51b581200.jpg

 

1114790085_60136onUpWestRiding.jpg.fc24702835533e0034fc1af862415694.jpg

 

They now see service on Little Bytham..............

 

60136.jpg.ac40ada1c30070c34e29cb59d19d1d68.jpg

 

Including ALCAZAR. 

 

Ian Rathbone did all the painting of these. 

 

511421943_DJHA160128.jpg.18508430206f3897f2bbb65cbbf7cdc8.jpg

 

As he continued to do into the current century.

 

I just kept on building A1s............................

 

644130610_A160114.jpg.82ff1c885572c1c5a40460d16508cbe8.jpg

 

Including those for friends/customers.

 

I built this one for a friend, but after several years he asked me to sell it for him - which I did.

 

1757662264_A1DJH60156GREATCENTRAL01.jpg.cfaae4c1597ea38935fafd670f0b01d3.jpg

 

This one was also built for a friend, and has now come back on 'permanent' loan to LB.

 

Ian Rathbone's painting remains consistently-brilliant, though I should have chosen better bogie wheels. Though not as crude as Bachmann's or Hornby's, the term 'should do better' is apposite. I'll change them on 60156.

 

I'd often build up to four A1s at any one time - three for customers and one for me! Ian then would batch-paint them.  

 

I still keep on building A1s, but recent jobs have now been painted by Geoff Haynes...............

 

830469403_DJHA160121.jpg.27e64ac7fd348b7520970fcaedc89d95.jpg

 

348665652_Overallview4360146onUpexpress.jpg.c581be910e8a59798b54486dbf03ce87.jpg

 

There are variations in the rendition of BR Brunswick green - as, I imagine was the case on the real thing. 

 

Geoff's painting is also excellent. 

 

And so, to the 'latest' A1, or the latest painted one ...........................

 

1284076902_09A160119.jpg.2e6c7c1f7aa4e0176de75179cb32a8c2.jpg

 

In my defence, this one had been started, by a now-deceased modeller. I made it go, and finished off the bodywork. 

 

I don't think it's as good as my earlier A1s, despite Geoff's painting.

 

I suppose, over a period of time, 'consistency' is the watchword.

 

I hope the locos illustrated show that, but it'll be an inevitable decline from now on. 

 

There are other A1s on Little Bytham which I've made, but the above represents a selection. 

 

I suppose my motivation to carry on making models (not just A1s) is that I still can. My eyesight (though pestered now by older-age floaters) is still good enough for me to be able to thread handrail pillars, my hands don't shake and my stamina is still adequate. Though slightly 'puddled' at times, my mental faculty is still standing up (though that's for others to decide!).

 

Nobody knows exactly how much time they have left, and my intention is to carry on for as long as I can. Building things is much more important to me than operating my railway. Indeed, since the lockdown, it's hardly been used! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

The same with Buckingham Tony. I have run a few trains "solo" just to keep the switch contacts polished and to stop everything seizing up but even though I am very keen on the operational side of things, it has always been more fun when there is more than one person, especially with the block bells. Now if I had the "Automatic Crispin" up and running that would be another story!

 

As a mere youngster of 60, I hope that my skills, even if I am not going to get any better now, are on a plateau but I know the only way from here is down! It is a matter of keeping on the plateau as long as possible. 

 

It does take me longer than it used to because it can sometimes take me a few tries before I cut or solder something as well as I can and I have to check more often with a square or a ruler when I used to be able to tell by eye if something was straight and true. My biggest problem is not the modelling but putting things down and losing them. They are usually right in front of me when they turn up, having spent 30 minutes searching everywhere else. I bet I am not alone either!

 

The main thing for me is that I still enjoy all aspects of the hobby. From woodwork, electrical work, building track, signals, scenery, locos, carriages or making anything, I can really switch off from the rest of the world at the workbench. Perhaps best of all is the social side. The very good friends, those I see less often but are part of a wider, looser circle and the new people that I get to meet at exhibitions, or places like Missenden.

 

As long as that carries on, I will be quite content as long as whoever ends up looking after me allow me scalpels and soldering irons! 

 

 

 

 

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