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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Blimey yes, mine is certainly ahead of that both in quality of print and design - there's a clear rebate behind each window (but not droplights or ends) to glaze into.   I have been taking pictures but I don't seem to have included the inside of the sides.  I'll try to do something today.

 

I superglued mine but all four corners needed some filling.  I've also used the central lavs to allow bracing pieces across the body which has helped it stay square and rigid.

 

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Yes I see what you mean. The rebates in your kit are well pronounced. Thanks Jonathan.

30 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Regarding Isinglass 3D-printed rolling stock kits, I've now built two items. 

 

The first was a GE section BTK 'shorty', given to me to assess. This must have been about four years ago; maybe more.

 

117841268_Isinglasscarriage10.jpg.fbf059b57f378dc14f27198c972c5256.jpg

 

It ended up with a most-pronounced bow!

 

I used superglue to put it together, and added MJT/Comet components to complete it.

 

920234969_Isinglasscarriage11.jpg.5f4f589efa7df916e402bc279640159e.jpg

 

1382809863_Isinglasscarriage12.jpg.f34614ff2ea7e17fe5ac32037a216653.jpg

 

Such was the 'roughness' of the finish, I used rattle can 'filler' primer to try to disguise this; without success! 

 

The roof was in two sections, and hiding the joint was very difficult. 

 

37259513_Isinglasscarriage13.jpg.6dd96ef673a77a13408f23254cf1ac93.jpg

 

I made no attempt to flush glaze it, resulting in a teak version of 'Bayonet'! 

 

1993642101_Isinglasscarriage14.jpg.5652d6bb821019a137b14575e27c11f6.jpg

 

Even as just a 'layout coach', it was unacceptable, so I gave it away to a friend. At least he could use the bogies and underframe in future.........

 

In fairness, the printing technique used by Andrew Edgson has improved an incredible amount in more recent times. 

 

The recent 'Pigeon Van' is much, much better in terms of the surface finish.

 

680294354_IsinglassPigeonVan14.jpg.532213bd53c97c21f05c5316c80450b8.jpg

 

How I built this is featured in the latest issue of BRM. 

 

The camera has cruelly revealed the patchy Pressfix loading data. 

 

 

Thanks for showing your experience with the earlier Isinglass kits. Sorry - this seems to have got posted before I finished it.  What I was going to say was that the Gresley BTK  really doesn't pass muster, but yes the pigeon van is much better. This helps to put things in context. I may spend a little time on this D246 but I'm not going to invest too much in it. I'd love one of the etched brass side kit manufacturers (MJT, Bill Bedford or Comet) to produce a D246 that would be my preferred solution.

Edited by Clem
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9 hours ago, Barry O said:

I bought a previously built loco from Tony a while ago, A NuCast A5

1574107258_A5bought.JPG.f22f4c00c5376e6ad0dfbcb0dfeb4a3f.JPG

 

I have now repainted it into BR Lined black, it has some new frames above the front pony truck.

 

The NER 4-6-2T loco (A6 and A7) are very different by comparison..

1136705330_LittleEnginesA669783(1280x401).jpg.6fc356944ab005d25c0a726e10cde137.jpg

A Little Engines kit, this one has home made plunger pickups which work very well.

 

of course the Great Central did produce the 2-6-4T as well as the A5.

 

 

225088875_ZeppelinGCL1(1280x396).jpg.df13896d402631a4f1fc952b1283da75.jpg

A Zeppelin - scratchbuilt by my late father from Brass sheet. It has a MG Sharp gearbox with a D13 driving that through a neoprene tube,,,

 

None of these use Nickel Silver pick ups.. these are antiques Tony!  Phosphor Bronze wire has been available for a long time, it is more "springy" than Nickel Silver and acts a a self lubricant. (quoted from an engineering materials web site " These alloys are notable for their toughness, strength, low coefficient of friction, and fine grain". I keep hearing squeaks from the few Nickel Silver pick up fitted locos I have. These will be changed this week.

 

Baz

 

Do you remember bringing the A7 to Little Bytham, Baz?

 

1483293006_LittleEnginesA7.jpg.1a8eeadd82a34bdff78a1d55b2db07e7.jpg

 

Might it be worth fitting the correct, 12-spoke bogie wheels?

 

I built one for a friend a couple of years ago, but I can't find the pictures for some reason. Archie, if you're reading this, would you mind posting your pictures of it, please? 

 

Each to their own regarding pick-ups. Nickel silver for me, every time; and no squeaks. You should have heard some of Tony Geary's fitted with phosphor bronze wipers! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

For me it's not the fear of the height but the fear of hitting the ground should I fall. Nonetheless I've walked the glass floor on the Toronto CN tower, the Tokyo tower and Tower Bridge, and sat on the edge seats against the full height windows in the New York World Trade Centre (before it was destroyed by terrorists).

 

 

Hi Grahame, ha ha ha! Not a chance! I struggle with stairs greater than 2 floors high, particularly if they are open. I'm staying on the ground in my workshop.

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1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

Do you remember bringing the A7 to Little Bytham, Baz?

 

1483293006_LittleEnginesA7.jpg.1a8eeadd82a34bdff78a1d55b2db07e7.jpg

 

Might it be worth fitting the correct, 12-spoke bogie wheels?

 

I built one for a friend a couple of years ago, but I can't find the pictures for some reason. Archie, if you're reading this, would you mind posting your pictures of it, please? 

 

Each to their own regarding pick-ups. Nickel silver for me, every time; and no squeaks. You should have heard some of Tony Geary's fitted with phosphor bronze wipers! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Wheel change currently not on the list of things to do. I am not worried by it and you can't see the spokes when it is moving.

Baz

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8 minutes ago, Clem said:

 

 

Yes I see what you mean. The rebates in your kit are well pronounced. Thanks Jonathan.

Thanks for showing your experience with the earlier Isinglass kits. 

My pleasure, Clem,

 

Though building that shorty BTK was not a pleasure!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, Clem said:

Good morning Andrew. Thanks for asking me that question as I've just got the Isinglass 3-D kit out again. I think I'll have a go at it next but I'll only use the sides and possibly the ends. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure how to approach it - what glue to use and the big question as mentioned in my previous post, how to glaze it. With Kirk coaches, I have a method, which though tedious, works very well with a reasonably good result. I suppose I may have to use a similar method using one of the glazing glues to try to achieve a similar result. The Kirk kits have a tapered lead in to the windows which allows a push fit, reinforced by the smallest smidgen of solvent (not enough to cause fogging).  I don't see myself using the kit's roof which comes in two sections (I'll use an MJT one) and for the under frame/bogies I may either a) use a Hornby donor or b) use an MJT floor with ABS bogies. The sides do need quite a bit of cleaning up, particularly some of the windows. To be honest, if etched sides were available, I'd have built a couple already such is the prevalence of this diagram on the Grantham-Nottingham-Derby line. Anyway, here's a photo of the parts, if it helps.

 

 

Good morning Clem,

 

thanks for the photo. To be fair to Isinglass, I think you have a much earlier and cruder version of the kit, one probably contemporary with Tony's BTK. That said, you've still paid for something that you may not feel is good enough to use.

 

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Morning Jonathan, Yes of course I don't strictly flush glaze Gresley teaks, it's just that I put the glazing in from the front and it does sit a little way back but closer to  flush compared to placing glazing the back, if that makes any sense - see D210 below. 

IMG_4835_rdcd.jpg.9a9edab357b7c9f98815b7143f290153.jpg

 

In my Isinglass kit, there doesn't seem to be a rebate of any useable nature at the back of the windows. (see below).

I wonder if he's improved the kits since I received this, some time ago. Can I also ask what glue you used to put the kit together with?

Cheers,

Clem.

 

Your Kirk windows are a work of art.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

 

Blimey yes, mine is certainly ahead of that both in quality of print and design - there's a clear rebate behind each window (but not droplights or ends) to glaze into.   I have been taking pictures but I don't seem to have included the inside of the sides.  I'll try to do something today.

 

I superglued mine but all four corners needed some filling.  I've also used the central lavs to allow bracing pieces across the body which has helped it stay square and rigid.

 

spacer.png

 

Good morning Jonathan,

 

how did you get on with the ends on the non gangway stock? I was discussing this with Rowanj (John), the cork in a bottle fit of the ends, seems to produce a most odd appearance, seen in Tony's BY when compared to the Chivers version behind it. Rather than fit flush between the sides, as you would expect, the ends seem to extend the sides, giving a pronounced gap between the beading and the corner of the carriage that results in an overhang of the bufferbeam. I wondered if this was something that you had encountered and if so, how did you deal with it? Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors?

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12 hours ago, Theakerr said:

Any chance of a bigger picture.  That is a most interesting alternate and avoids the 'tail' issue

 

Not without taking the loco apart! Sorry.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

 

Nasty stuff, B-C.  Take care when working with it...

 

It was purchased at a show from a reputable trader with a "You should try this for pick ups" and had no health warning. What does it do and what precautions should I take?

 

Just looked it up on t'internet! I should be OK as long as I just use solid wire and don't heat it enough to make it give off fumes and don't inhale beryllium dust.

 

Or maybe I go back to using other wire!

 

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Tony

 

Not all people are highly allergic to Beryllium. The dust (which could be given off if you broke a fluorescent light tube can be very dangerous to some people. They didn't have a warning on them.

 

I will stick with the phosphor bronze..my original Triang Princess still works with its original pb pick ups. 

 

Baz

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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Jonathan,

 

how did you get on with the ends on the non gangway stock? I was discussing this with Rowanj (John), the cork in a bottle fit of the ends, seems to produce a most odd appearance, seen in Tony's BY when compared to the Chivers version behind it. Rather than fit flush between the sides, as you would expect, the ends seem to extend the sides, giving a pronounced gap between the beading and the corner of the carriage that results in an overhang of the bufferbeam. I wondered if this was something that you had encountered and if so, how did you deal with it? Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors?

'Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors?'

 

Top image on page 15 of BR General Parcels Rolling Stock, A Pictorial Survey by David Larkin, Bradford Barton, 1978.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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On 23/05/2020 at 20:35, Fishplate said:

 

Hi Dave

 

I came across this route learning video for Grosmont to Battersea Junction on YouTube. See 12 mins 56 secs. I knew there was a bridge like that on the line. Hope this helps solve your question.

 

Best Regards

 

John

Thanks John

A great film to watch as it is just up the road from me in Guisborough. Even though I have been on the line to get a view out of the cab is excellent. The bridge deck uses standard timbers rather than way timbers (which are no longer used except for very short spans). I see there are check rails and timber / tarmac walkways added. Useful stuff.

Dave

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Wire pick-ups: I don't dispute the relative virtues and drawbacks of the different metals, but I do find that the precise shapes and lengths of pick-ups, including the key question of whether the general line of the wire is tangential (good) or radial (probably noisy) to the wheel, with suitable rounding of the contact area, make big differences to results. I've never used phoshor-bronze wire (nor beryllium copper) but I seem to have achieved qiuet pick-ups. Of course, I may be driving local dogs and bats round the bend...

 

My late 1970s chemistry teacher had quite a cavalier attitude to danger, although he did point out that beryllium, if ingested, makes all of your hair fall out, amongst other unpleasant effects. Presumably not a problem if you don't eat or inhale the stuff, or its dust, don't dissolve it and then drink or absorb the solution, and so long as you add another hand washing session to the twenty five hand washes daily that you're already doing.

 

For thick injection moulded or 3D printed coach sides with flat backs and thus no provision for anything like flush glazing, has anybody tried taking a really well sharpened wood chisel of slightly greater width than the depth of the windows, and drawing this several times over the inside face of the side so as to shave thickness off the area where the glazing later has to fit? I know that those with fancy equipment could mill out material, but the chisel might work as a method for the ever cost-conscious Messrs. Bodget and Scarper, a firm with which I am proud to be associated.

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One method of pick ups I saw quite a few years ago was used, maybe invented by a chap I knew from the North East. His name, possibly not the right spelling, was Rees Scott. He was in front of Thompson's End at a show and we got talking, as we do, when he he mentioned that he had built a few ex NER locos but had nowhere to run them so he had brought a couple to the show in the hope of finding an EM layout to "try them out". They looked great, ran as well as any model locos I have ever seen and we kept them until he left as they ran better than some of Malcolm's.

 

I asked him how he got them to run like that and one of his tricks was to make pick ups from nickel silver wire but he hammered it flat on an anvil.

 

He had work hardened the metal to make it even more springy and it was so thin, you could bend it to give as much pressure as you like on the back of the wheel and it didn't create the same braking as round wire. Sadly Rees was taken way too early by Motor Neurone Disease and our friendship was a short one but he was a very skilled modeller and it was a shame I, as well as others, didn't get the chance to see more of what he could do.

 

One day I will try his method. Perhaps even on Valour. There is plenty of room for pick ups on her.

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13 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Wire pick-ups: I don't dispute the relative virtues and drawbacks of the different metals, but I do find that the precise shapes and lengths of pick-ups, including the key question of whether the general line of the wire is tangential (good) or radial (probably noisy) to the wheel, with suitable rounding of the contact area, make big differences to results. I've never used phoshor-bronze wire (nor beryllium copper) but I seem to have achieved qiuet pick-ups. Of course, I may be driving local dogs and bats round the bend...

 

My late 1970s chemistry teacher had quite a cavalier attitude to danger, although he did point out that beryllium, if ingested, makes all of your hair fall out, amongst other unpleasant effects. Presumably not a problem if you don't eat or inhale the stuff, or its dust, don't dissolve it and then drink or absorb the solution, and so long as you add another hand washing session to the twenty five hand washes daily that you're already doing.

 

For thick injection moulded or 3D printed coach sides with flat backs and thus no provision for anything like flush glazing, has anybody tried taking a really well sharpened wood chisel of slightly greater width than the depth of the windows, and drawing this several times over the inside face of the side so as to shave thickness off the area where the glazing later has to fit? I know that those with fancy equipment could mill out material, but the chisel might work as a method for the ever cost-conscious Messrs. Bodget and Scarper, a firm with which I am proud to be associated.

Hi Graeme

 

My mate Jim (jimwal on here) used a rebating tool on the rear of some LMS coaches to reduce the thickness behind the windows.

 

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37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'Also, have you ever seen a photograph of a BY with individual stepboards for the doors?'

 

Top image on page 15 of BR General Parcels Rolling Stock, A Pictorial Survey by David Larkin, Bradford Barton, 1978.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

I have been looking through my photographs and couldn't find one. The question is, was there a batch built like that, or was it a later alteration? Could you also confirm if the photo in 'Larkin' is a dia 120 or one of the others, is it dated?

 

Many thanks, in anticipation.

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I think it was Ian Rice who suggested soldering a smidgen of gold on the business end of pick ups. 

Alan 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks Tony,

 

I have been looking through my photographs and couldn't find one. The question is, was there a batch built like that, or was it a later alteration? Could you also confirm if the photo in 'Larkin' is a dia 120 or one of the others, is it dated?

 

Many thanks, in anticipation.

Good afternnon Andrew,

 

The diagram is not given (it's just listed as a BY), but it's E70217E - of 1933 vintage. It's the one I based my model on, and it also doesn't have horizontal handrails towards the ends of the sides.

 

The prototype picture was taken at Shields Junction in 1962. The van is in crimson.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited by Tony Wright
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1 hour ago, Buhar said:

I think it was Ian Rice who suggested soldering a smidgen of gold on the business end of pick ups. 

Alan 

 

I read that and tried it. The gold seemed to attract dust and fluff and although the metal stayed clean, the muck quickly lifted the metal away from the wheel, where it can be as clean and shiny as it likes but doesn't pick up power! So I took the gold pads off and the loco worked properly after that.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternnon Andrew,

 

The diagram is not given (it's just listed as a BY), but it's E70217E - of 1933 vintage. It's the one I based my model on, and it also doesn't have horizontal handrails towards the ends of the sides.

 

The prototype picture was taken at Shields Junction in 1962. The van is in crimson.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

Thanks very much for the information Tony,


E70217E was part of the original Stratford batch built in 1928*. It would have originally been built with a continuous footboard, symmetrical battery boxes on the non ducket side, and the missing handrails that you mention in the photograph. It would also have originally carried the distinctive Stratford patten rainstrip, rather than the curved version of some other batches. The LNER did start fitting individual step boards to later batches of well trodden designs. However, the retrofitting of individual steps to carriages / NPC's, that originally had a continuous stepboards, seems to have been a BR phenomenon. I've not seen it on a dia 120 before. When the change was made, I can not say. It's another modelling opportunity, but something to be weary of if you are planning an LNER or earlier BR version from the kit.


The 1933 batch was built at Darlington to dia's 170, 176 and 177*, all on different underframes. One easy way to spot them is by the wooden headstocks. 'Larkin' is probably a book that I should have, I do try to keep my library to a manageable size.

 

Tatlow*

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5 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Thanks very much for the information Tony,


E70217E was part of the original Stratford batch built in 1928*. It would have originally been built with a continuous footboard, symmetrical battery boxes on the non ducket side, and the missing handrails that you mention in the photograph. It would also have originally carried the distinctive Stratford patten rainstrip, rather than the curved version of other batches. The LNER did start fitting individual step boards to later batches of well trodden designs. However, the retrofitting of individual steps to carriages / NPC's, that originally had a continuous stepboards, seems to have been a BR phenomenon. I've not seen it on a dia 120 before. When the change was made, I can not say. It's another modelling opportunity, but something to be weary of if you are planning an LNER or earlier BR version from the kit.


The 1933 batch was built at Darlington* to dia's 170, 176 and 177, all on different underframes. One easy way to spot them is by the wooden headstocks. 'Larkin' is probably a book that I should have, I do try to keep my library to a manageable size.

 

Tatlow*

 

Different diagram, but the Isinglass drawing for D141 (52'6 corridor 3rd) states that "economies of the latter 30s brought in the 3'9" long step board on both sides". However BR era photos show a full length footboard along the side with the compartment doors, and short ones on the corridor side. I'm struggling to find evidence either way for LNER days as to if or when the short footboards came in. Personally I am modelling 1939 so am into "latter 1930s" but I would expect the war period to bring in the biggest economy which of course started in late 1939...

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15 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I do try to keep my library to a manageable size.

The Larkin books are quite small and thin so you should be OK. I have four - the aforementioned parcels stock, BR Standard Freight Wagons, BR Departmental Rolling Stock and Pre-Nationalisation Freight Stock on BR. I never bothered getting Private Owner Freight Wagons on BR.

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14 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Chamby,

 

I don't think that I've seen your layout before. I very much like the sweep of it, what a difference your new curve makes.  I always like the look of an embankment that forms a near horizon against the sky. The M&GN on LB does that quite well. Your newly created embankment, reminds me a little of Staverton Road on the GC's London extension. That would make a dramatic 'watch the trains go by' setting for a layout in my opinion. I think you should keep cutting away and make it longer.

 

Good afternoon Headstock,  

 

My first acquaintance with the GCLE was in my Grannie’s back garden in Wilford, it was at the foot of the embankment on the line’s approach to Trent Bridge.  Seeing the steam locomotives silhouetted against the skyline as they noisily rushed past left a lasting impression.  I also remember Grannies constant irritation at the soot deposited on her washing line.  Happy days.

 

I haven’t decided yet whether to extend the embankment, or undulate the scenery into a shallow cutting to give a little more variety.  Either way, the remaining flat top will go.

 

 

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