Wright writes.....

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 minutes ago, Buhar said:

Six ostensibly similar vans, but a quick peer at the bodywork only seems to show four different types.

 

Alan

The three behind the Brit are all different.

[Barry Ten]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm going to 'fight my corner' here, Al,

 

Normally, I'd agree entirely that distant colours should be more muted (as Tony Gee observes), but there is no aerial or atmospheric perspective present in the Glen Valley at Little Bytham,because the horizon is so close. 

 

 

 

 

 

Points well made, Tony.

 

The whole thing looks magnificent in any case.

[Barry Ten]

Now an unrelated question:

 

DJH are now selling their combined motor/gearboxes with their new motors, rather than the Mashima ones.  I'd

be interested to know if the new motors use the same fixing points as the old, so that - for instance - I could

do a motor swap on an existing gearbox. I have asked DJH but I wondered if someone might have the answer

already.

 

[lanchester]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Points well made, Tony.

 

The whole thing looks magnificent in any case.

Re the 'how bright is your backdrop' controversy, may I recommend a look at the East Yorkshire works of David Hockney. (The geology and agriculture of E Yorks is not dissimilar to that around Little Bytham) and then a look at the real thing.

 

His colours are seriously bright - but that's not an artistic conceit. Try actually looking at the country in the appropriate season. Around May, for example - the acid yellow of rape*, the emerald of the spring-sown wheat coming through, the 'leaf green' of, you guessed, young leaves on ash and other trees, splashes of pure white from the hawthorn, perhaps a stripe of ultramarine from the bluebells at the wood's edge. Those colours are really there, and they are, at least on a sunny day, really bright, but you can (well I did) live sixty odd years without really noticing. 

 

*(Although I think that in Tony's chosen timeframe there would have been less rape. If it was like further North on the ECML the yellow would have been mustard - a close relative, but the yellow is a bit warmer and gentler).

[great central]

Not wanting to add to the discussion on the relative merits of past or modern railways, merely an illustration of how the modern railway may be seen by the normal passenger. 

I've recently passed Little Bytham doing a steady 90mph uphill in what would probably have been termed a semi fast service, as it it doesn't go to London. From their perspective I'm sure an improvement over past times.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

Now an unrelated question:

 

DJH are now selling their combined motor/gearboxes with their new motors, rather than the Mashima ones.  I'd

be interested to know if the new motors use the same fixing points as the old, so that - for instance - I could

do a motor swap on an existing gearbox. I have asked DJH but I wondered if someone might have the answer

already.

 

Don't take take this as gospel, Al, but I don't think the fixing points are exactly the same. 

 

It seems to me that all that was required for the DJH gearboxes was a new 'faceplate' fixing for the replacement motors, which is a fold-up etch with the fixing holes for the screws in it. The four fixing points to hold this to the gearbox remain the same. 

 

Trevor Bailey (his dad was a cricket enthusiast!) is the guy to ask at DJH. 

 

I've now used six of these new combos and (if anything) they're even better than the originals.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

21 minutes ago, great central said:

Not wanting to add to the discussion on the relative merits of past or modern railways, merely an illustration of how the modern railway may be seen by the normal passenger. 

I've recently passed Little Bytham doing a steady 90mph uphill in what would probably have been termed a semi fast service, as it it doesn't go to London. From their perspective I'm sure an improvement over past times.

I think as far as the general passengers are concerned, they're much happier travelling on today's railways than at the time depicted on the model of Little Bytham.

 

Accepting the current reduced service, it's faster, more frequent and certainly cleaner. The big problem, of course, is that one can no longer board a train or leave a train at LB - a situation which has been the case for the last 61 years. 

 

There has been talk of late of a kind of 'parkway' station, between Grantham and Peterborough. Certainly, with the growth of nearby towns like Bourne, it would be of great use. 

 

I think we (as model railway enthusiasts) view the situation with rather different eyes. Most current passengers (I would think) have little interest in what they're travelling in, other than it's got a clean seat for them and it's punctual. They might regret the disappearance of full meals on the longer-distance services, but they care not a jot if the 'traditional' railway has all but disappeared. 

 

I must admit to a Philistine moment in that regard, many, many years ago. My first jaunt to Retford by train was behind wheezing 'Director' 62661 GERARD POWYS DEWHURST, taking my brother, Yorkshire cousins and me from Kiveton Park. It would be the summer of 1958. I don't know which was dirtier; the loco or the non-corridor carriage we were in, but both were heroically-filthy. As mongrel 'skoolboys', we bounced up and down on the seats, disappearing in clouds of filthy dust! The next time, in 1960, we sat behind the driver of a gleaming DMU. Believe it or not, this was preferable! Though none of us would demean our notebooks by scribbling down DMU numbers (no self-respecting 1950s loco-spotter would do that), neither had we written 62661 down because it certainly wasn't a 'cop'. No, the best bit was the view afforded by the DMU, enabling us to spot any loco coming the other way. We probably weren't scolded as much on our return, either - being not quite so mucky! 

 

I suppose it boils down to the likes of us, as modellers, attempting to recreate a 'more-interesting' time. A time when not not all passenger trains on all the routes were fixed-formation, when the loco was a separate entity from its train and there certainly was far more variety. The fact that it was much more dirty means a lot more weathering being needed.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clem]

7 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Are we still doing box vans? For those bored by such things, get another hobby! Whizzing out of the paint shop last night is this standard LNER unfitted 9ft wb van. It seems like a lifetime ago that this was constructed, it still awaits three link couplings. There have been a number of kits in the past, but the easiest way to produce one now is currently by cross kitting a modified Parkside body onto a Cambrian underframe. An essential item for LNER/ex LNER layouts.

Evening Andrew. I've still got a few 3-H kits to do of these. (I have completed a few also including a rarity - a 9 ft wb fitted van. The problem you get is these kits is quality of the plastic mouldings which were of their time. The brakes and brake levers are particularly brittle. I love your paint finishes. Such excellent subtle shade variations. I'm thinking of getting a new airbrush - possibly an Iwata HP SB plus. I note it has 0.2mm nozzle. Any thoughts?

[Barry Ten]

Over the last couple of evenings, and this afternoon, I put together a basic chassis for this Fowler 2-6-4T:

 

 

The basic model must be about 40 years old and was the original Hornby one in LMS red. Unfortunately mine never ran well, being very grindy and with a bit of a waddle, and despite adding extra pickups and attempting to lubricate away the noise, it never got much better. However the model does have enough personal significance that I felt it was worth the time and expense to put a better chassis under it.  One of the first RTR-improvement jobs I did was to modify the cab cut-outs to the later shape, the result of which is rather cruelly exposed by this photo, followed by a respray and relining job into BR condition.  I reckon I can make the cab area look better now, possibly with patch repainting of the black, but if I have to end up repainting and relining it, so be it.

 

The chassis is the Comet one with a DJH gearbox and Markits wheels. It all went together excellently, with barely  any clearance needed for the coupling rod holes. I fitted pickups and off she went, a little noisily without lubrication, and with the hollow body shell, but with no hesitation or tight spots. Unfortunately I can anticipate some difficulties with the front brake gear getting in the way of the pickups, so may have to rethink how I arrange the latter. 

 

Al

[FarrMan]

On 04/06/2020 at 15:56, cctransuk said:

 

 

Tony

 

Still can't get rid of this link from my reply box.

 

I agree with you that today's railway is better in the minds of the general traveling public. I also agree that there was much more variety in the 1950's and 60's. There were so many more lines that have since closed, and many more locos in such variety. However, there was not much variety in liveries, whereas with privatisation there is much more variety. Again, if you know what to look for, there is still enough variety in the current scene if you know where to look. I think part of it is that we tend to be more interested in the scene at the time we became interested in trains.

 

Lloyd

[Tony Wright]

15 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Over the last couple of evenings, and this afternoon, I put together a basic chassis for this Fowler 2-6-4T:

 

 

The basic model must be about 40 years old and was the original Hornby one in LMS red. Unfortunately mine never ran well, being very grindy and with a bit of a waddle, and despite adding extra pickups and attempting to lubricate away the noise, it never got much better. However the model does have enough personal significance that I felt it was worth the time and expense to put a better chassis under it.  One of the first RTR-improvement jobs I did was to modify the cab cut-outs to the later shape, the result of which is rather cruelly exposed by this photo, followed by a respray and relining job into BR condition.  I reckon I can make the cab area look better now, possibly with patch repainting of the black, but if I have to end up repainting and relining it, so be it.

 

The chassis is the Comet one with a DJH gearbox and Markits wheels. It all went together excellently, with barely  any clearance needed for the coupling rod holes. I fitted pickups and off she went, a little noisily without lubrication, and with the hollow body shell, but with no hesitation or tight spots. Unfortunately I can anticipate some difficulties with the front brake gear getting in the way of the pickups, so may have to rethink how I arrange the latter. 

 

Al

An interesting project, Al,

 

Just one point of detail; you've got the right-facing BR lion on this side. This is incorrect in two ways. One, it's prototypically incorrect with regard to the tenets of heraldry (showing BR's ignorance at the time) and, two: It was only ever fitted to the RH sides of locos/tenders. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Are we still doing box vans? For those bored by such things, get another hobby! Whizzing out of the paint shop last night is this standard LNER unfitted 9ft wb van. It seems like a lifetime ago that this was constructed, it still awaits three link couplings. There have been a number of kits in the past, but the easiest way to produce one now is currently by cross kitting a modified Parkside body onto a Cambrian underframe. An essential item for LNER/ex LNER layouts.

Looks great Andrew. In particular, your weathering is so natural. For the ignorant amongst us, could you explain why we can’t just use the Parkside kit as is?

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

The Parkside kit is the fitted version.   Until the last few years of its existence the LNER built many more unfitted vehicles than fitted.

[jwealleans]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

I've still got a few 3-H kits to do of these

 

The 3H kit has the straight corner plates.  I can't remember which way round it is, but either Doncaster used the straight plates and Darlington/Shildon cranked them (as on Andrew's model) or the other way round.  Nice point of detail for those of us who look for them.

[Hollar]

20 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

As it happens Tony my 1958 'Observers Book of Railway Locomotives of Britain', pocket size, was my Christmas Present for 1959, when I was 8 years and it was, and is, a treasured possession,  and my older brother's 1955 edition was supplanted.  I still own both and sometimes consult them.

 

I can attest however that a 3 year old will still literally jump for joy at the sight of a train going by.

 

There's no accounting for taste. A line of five or six EMDs in notch 8, lifting 15,000 tons of container freight out of California is to some a truly stunning thing.

 

That said, I nearly bought a B1 today....  the Scottish style with fillets on the running plates.  These things need thought.

 

Disjointed post, apologies.  Better have a cup of tea and think of a new picture. 

 

 

 

 

My 1958 Observers is also a treasured possession for much the same reason.  It fell to bits about 20 years ago when I happened to be dealing with an antiquarian bookbinder - so I splashed out and had it bound in Country House leather.  Now it does at lest look like a treasured possession.

 

Tone

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Evening Andrew. I've still got a few 3-H kits to do of these. (I have completed a few also including a rarity - a 9 ft wb fitted van. The problem you get is these kits is quality of the plastic mouldings which were of their time. The brakes and brake levers are particularly brittle. I love your paint finishes. Such excellent subtle shade variations. I'm thinking of getting a new airbrush - possibly an Iwata HP SB plus. I note it has 0.2mm nozzle. Any thoughts?

 

Good evening Clem,

 

I have an Iwata, a trigger type, I hate it. I have two venerable Badger 150's and a Badger 155. The 155 was bought because of its adaptability and easy maintenance, I haven't even used it so far. I love my 150's, a good general purpose airbrush, they have been around since the Ark. Double action and separate cup (I use bottles) rules the roost in terms of flexibility, from general coverage to detail work. Spare parts are a reasonable price, are readily available and you can change head and nozzles from small, medium and large. Nozzle size depends very much on what you are spraying out of it, the 0.5 medium head is the best for quality coverage using enamels, but to be honest it works just as well for detail work, because of the control the double action provides. Small nozzles are usually used for inks etc though detail work with enamels is possible as well.

 

Individual airbrushes will always be a matter of personal taste, You need not spend tons of money on the actual airbrush, a good compressor with controllable air pressure is just as important, plus some sort of extraction system.

 

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Looks great Andrew. In particular, your weathering is so natural. For the ignorant amongst us, could you explain why we can’t just use the Parkside kit as is?

 

Andy

 

Good evening Andy,

 

as Jonathan has already noted, the Parkside kit is for a Vanfit. This is a ten-foot wheelbase vacuum fitted vehicle, like the RTR model made by Bachmann, the difference bing the Bachmann version has the steel rather than the  wooden underframe of the Parkside kit. The Parkside body requires modification, to remove the horizontal strapping on the sliding door. Once this is removed, the vertical planking can be scribed back in.

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

An interesting project, Al,

 

Just one point of detail; you've got the right-facing BR lion on this side. This is incorrect in two ways. One, it's prototypically incorrect with regard to the tenets of heraldry (showing BR's ignorance at the time) and, two: It was only ever fitted to the RH sides of locos/tenders. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

"I'm glad you spotted my deliberate mistake, Wilson...."

[Clem]

6 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I have an Iwata, a trigger type, I hate it. I have two venerable Badger 150's and a Badger 155. The 155 was bought because of its adaptability and easy maintenance, I haven't even used it so far. I love my 150's, a good general purpose airbrush, they have been around since the Ark. Double action and separate cup (I use bottles) rules the roost in terms of flexibility, from general coverage to detail work. Spare parts are a reasonable price, are readily available and you can change head and nozzles from small, medium and large. Nozzle size depends very much on what you are spraying out of it, the 0.5 medium head is the best for quality coverage using enamels, but to be honest it works just as well for detail work, because of the control the double action provides. Small nozzles are usually used for inks etc though detail work with enamels is possible as well.

Thanks for the info, Andrew. I have a couple of neo for Iwata cheap Chinese copies, I believe. Easy to take apart for cleaning but the cup is fixed above the nozzle and this can hinder alignment with the eye. Otherwise, they're pretty reasonable for general use but not so good on very fine work. I was thinking of getting the HP SB plus specifically for finer work - (actually, although it comes with an 0.2mm nozzle, there is an option for 0.3 instead).

 

However I think the quality of your finishing probably suggests maybe it's more about the skill factor. Also, I have got a cheap compressor. That may also be replaced, now. I read somewhere that for finer work you have to work at a reduced the pressure.

 

Cheers,

 

Clem

[Darryl Tooley]

Just now, jwealleans said:

The 3H kit has the straight corner plates.  I can't remember which way round it is, but either Doncaster used the straight plates and Darlington/Shildon cranked them (as on Andrew's model) or the other way round.  Nice point of detail for those of us who look for them.

3H - cranked - Darlington

Ian Kirk - straight - Doncaster

 

Neither of these kits was, to my mind, an entirely convincing set of mouldings, and Andrew's way of doing it results in a van that looks right.

 

D

[stewartingram]

One thing nobody has mentioned about railways & the past, is that when we went on a train, it was a journey - in other words an experience. Everything about the railway was behind a fence, and (generally I suppose) we didn't cross that fence except for a journey. We watched trains the other side of the fence (or went through it to a platform). We knew that to travel on it was that journey.

When we did go on a journey, it was wholly organised, unlike today where everything is (basically) routine. 

We had to get to the station - a mini journey in its own right. Then we had to buy the ticket from a ticket office, where the tickets were date stamped in a machine before being handed to us. We showed them at the barrier., waited on the platform, observing other trains and shunting before our train arrived. Not just a simple push button to open a door then, but handle to turn and pull the door open, closing it behind you, not too easy as you probably had to open a window first. Then down the corridor, looking for a seat, Meanwhile another procedure was evolving on the platform, with parcels being unloaded and more put on. Then any open doors were slammed shut, quite a cacophony of noise.

The guard blowing his whistle, waving his flag, the engine driver sounding the whistle in return before we finally start to move. The noise of the engine pulling us, the wheels on the joints...

During the journey we would be passing other trains, stations with more movements going on with shunting, much to see. Lineside industries too. And those telegraph wire, sagging between the poles, with steam and smoke obscuring the view at times...I could go on.

So much simpler now. A ticket pre-booked on line, enter the station (possibly no barrier), one push of a button to open the doors. No need to close them, automatic or driver operates. No parcels activity, guards, little lineside activity, (but plenty of greenery & graffiti), no small station, or shunting. So much has been simplified to maximise efficiency....

 

Stewart

[Mark C]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Lovely work, Andrew (as always).

 

How long did wagons run in service with brakes only on one side? I thought by your period (post-War?), most would have brakes both sides. That said, my knowledge of vans/wagons is sadly-lacking.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony

 

I might be able to answer in part...I'm currently building these two very tidy kits from Cambrian representing ex-LMS 12 ton steel-ended ventilated vans.  A prototype photo of the type (albeit on a 10' wheelbase underframe) appears in D. Larkin's  pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways taken in 1960 and still with brakes on one side only.  On the opposite page there is an all-steel variant taken in 1962 - both wagons still appear to be in service. 

 

These two will be finished in unfitted grey livery!!

 

On the same page as the first there is a photo of an ex-LNER all-wooden 12 ton ventilated van, which resembles Andrew's model, taken in 1969, but by now out of service.

 

Mark

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Vans seem to be a recent topic of note....

 

Well, I've bitten the bullet and photographed a selection of mine in trains on LB. 

 

With few exceptions, none is my work, so I can plead ignorance if they're wrong. They're mainly obtained from six sources; Rob Kinsey, Rob Davey, John Houlden, the late Pete Lander, the late Dave Shakespeare and acquisitions from second-hand stalls at shows. Most are made from kits, with some RTR adaptations. Wagons are not really my thing. 

 

I'll leave viewers to make their  own observations.

 

The following constitutes one of the mainly-fitted freights......

 

 

This trio of cattle wagons is made-up of weathered Bachmann RTR items. Believe it or not (believe it!), they all have the same number! I must have had hundreds of visitors to see Little Bytham in operation over the last 12 years and none - not one has ever noticed! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If things are wrong, I'd like to know, please. 

 

More to follow.........

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[jwealleans]

Your unsecured container is obviously wrong and it being on a Lowfit - well, we've had this discussion on a wagon forum just this week and although there are pictures of it happening it's towards the far end of uncommon.  It was not permitted and Lowfits were generally branded to that effect.   The container could shift and go out of gauge, which clearly couldn't happen in a Medium or High open.  You could put it onto a Conflat and chain it down or slot it into a High, when they seem to have been left unroped as often as they were tied down.

 

I'd look again at the pipes as well - in a rough shunt, there's nothing to prevent the top layer shooting forwards off the wagon into whatever's in front of it.   I can't recall seeing pipes in a sided wagon where they were stacked higher than the sides.  Andrew (Headstock) has done some lovely pipe loads which I think he's illustrated on this thread from time to time.

 

There were at one time regulations about where a bogie vehicle had to be placed in a goods train, but I can't recall what they were off the top of my head.   Stationmaster Mike quoted them to me once.  To do with the number of axles between it and the end of the train I think and may also have varied depending on whether it was piped up or not.  Hopefully that will encourage someone more knowledgeable to explain it.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by jwealleans
Spelling.

[APOLLO]

A superb selection of vans Tony, maybe add some stickers / posters (whatever you call them), did BR use them in your era ?

 

Springs Branch No1 around 1966, another Brit, northbound on the slow line this time. The brick building was the LNWR / LMS enginemen's dormitory.

 

 

Edirted to add

 

Secured container on what I presume is the correct wagon. Whitley crossing north of Wigan

 

 

And the next northbound had a different wagon for the container !!

 

 

More stickers, chalk marks and assorted vans. Hard work here for northbound trains up the 1 in 105 to Boars Head and the 4 track section at Standish Junction. The electrics fly up here these days, but the occasional heavy ballast trains still slog up the brew.

 

 

Brit15

Edited June 6, 2020 by APOLLO

[APOLLO]

How to secure pipes. Southbound at Whitley Crossing, firemen takes a breather.

 

 

The first wagon I presume was a barrier wagon but also carried a load of pipes.

 

 

Can't finish without a Brit storming north - vans again !!!!!

 

 

Brit15