Wright writes.....

[Headstock 8,807]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Good afternoon Headstock.  Yes the rake is a little later than the rest of my modelling, covering the late forties and early fifties.  At the moment it squeezes in the period after the Tavern Car had been replaced, after the Mk 1 stock came in 1951, but before 60111 was repainted green in early 1953.  I don't have definitive data on the exact formation and diagram numbers (the same goes for most of my rakes at the moment), but for now it fills a gap whilst my modelling focus is on the layout build for the time being.  Some time in the future I will probably adjust the formation back in time to be a more comfortable fit to my core timeline, as you rightly say that will probably have to include the much loved Tavern car and much detested Nissen hut!  Some indulgent days to be spent on that research to come, probably during a cold winters night with a glass of claret in hand...

 

Evening Phil,

 

the classic Gresley formation, that ran with a few tweaks between 1947 and and 1951, is by far the hardest to model. In the grand scheme of things, the Tavern car and friend, were only in the train for a few months in 1949. The typical catering make up for the classic period was FO-RF-TO.

 

The 51 formation is quite simple in comparison, all you require to build yourself is a Gresley RF/RPT combo. The MK1 FK was a end door type, I'm not sure if this is available RTR, the MK1 FO, also an end door type, didn't last too long and was replaced by the Thompson FO. The trains patrons, the great and the good, managed to rid themselves of the nissen hut, did they also object to their dinner bouncing around on the poor ride of the MK1 carriage?

 

P.S. being a Neasden loco, 60111 was not a regular on the Master Cutler. I's time would come, when allocated to Leicester later in the fifties. For a time in 1955, it was regular locomotive on the southbound South Yorkshireman. It was also the train engine on the first Starlight special to depart Marylebone in 1953. 60102 and 60052 were allocated as train engines on the Cutler as part of it's repaint into crimson and cream, both locomotive being turned out in blue for the working. 60102 in particular was regarded as a superb loco, though 60052 seems to have been photographed more often, there is a story behind that. 60054 was also well regarded and did a long spell on the Cutler, often photographed in filthy LNER/BR grass green.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Headstock
add P.S.

[Clive Mortimore 34,307]

On 10/07/2020 at 17:44, thegreenhowards said:

Hello Tony,

 

Kings Cross is actually rather more compact than that. It’s 420M from the front of the station building (which would have to be included) to the Gasworks tunnel mouth which equates to 5.5M or 18 feet in 4mm scale - quite achievable in a large loft - either with a curve round to a fiddle yard on the other side of the loft or a very short run directly into a fiddle yard. From the buffer stops is about 17 feet, but that would mean missing out on Cubitts masterpiece. The problems with it are the other two that you mention. The width from York Road platform to the end of the Milk Dock is almost 10ft and a large chunk of the layout would be hidden under an overall roof.

 

It’s my intention to build a model of it one day and I’m still mulling over how to overcome these two obstacles. There will clearly need to be some width compression - I think a reduced suburban station with the layout finishing with the hotel curve line from Moorgate emerging at the far edge of the baseboard with some compression of platform widths should be possible in about 5 feet - It would need access both sides, but that sounds manageable. And as for the overall roof, I’m thinking that I would only model the two ends and leave the middle part uncovered, or at least unglazed, to allow viewing of the station.

 

Andy

HI Andy

 

I planned to make Kings Cross, I hand drew the point work to 4mm scale (I am not sure that any points were standard). I discounted doing the overall roof as it would mean too much of the layout would be hidden. I was planning the layout and stock around the 1969 working timetable.

 

I came to the conclusion that most of the layout would become fiddle yard, with all the up trains entering the station from the 3 eastern tracks of gas works tunnel and the down trains the other 3 the fiddle yard tracks so trains could cross from one side to the other would nearly be as complicated as the station throat. Plus a second smaller fiddle yard for the Moorgate trains.

 

With limited space my mind changed to building Passenger Loco and the front of the suburban station. The plan was the trainspotters view from platform 10 to Passenger Loco watching the loco moves on, locos reversing out of the tunnel as if they had just come off the platforms and off shed going back into the tunnel before joining their train going northwards. Along with suburban trains going in and out, using a traverser for the fiddle yard . For the Moorgate trains it was planned a line would run behind the embankment behind Passenger Loco to a sector plate which would line up with Platform 16.

 

Both ideas were halted, and the paper station throat disposed of when we moved here to the middle of nowhere. If you look at my Sheffield Exchange there are elements of the 1977 track plan so I didn't fully abandon my dream of having a model of Kings Cross.

 

[Tony Wright 59,932]

With the mention of main lines in cramped sites, I've been digging through some of my images, and found these two.....................

 

 

 

I can't even remember when or where I took these. I can't even remember the layout's name (I can't make out the station nameboard), but it gives the air of a cramped, city centre terminus.

 

Though I'm nor sure why, it reminds a little of the long-closed Liverpool Central. The trackwork is well-made, though those horrid couplings do obtrude. I don't think the signals worked, and as for safety rails!

 

Does anyone know which layout this is? 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Clearwater 3,669]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Many years ago the Renfrew MRC did that with their model of Glasgow St Enoch, which featured only one train shed instead of the prototype's two. Consequently, it was always referred to, irreverently but affectionately, as St Eunuch.

I was thinking along the lone @t-b-g had suggested but with the variation that for a home layout you put platforms 1-6 or whatever) on one side of the room and 7-12 on the opposite side.  Track sloping down to a fiddleyard underneath each scenic section.  As the viewer/operator, if this was a model of Birmingham New Street for example, you’d imagine yourself as standing on the end of platform 6/7 (the a end) and swivelling to view trains as they left towards the tunnels.

 

David

[Tony Wright 59,932]

I seem to have built a fair number of locos in lockdown.

 

In fact, I felt quite smug about my output.

 

Then, in digging through the files, I came across this picture of my stand at a York Show some years ago.......

 

 

It seems I've always been making lots of things! 

 

Poignantly, in looking at this I was reminded of the friend and colleague I was sitting next to at the time; Bob Alderman, who's sadly just died. 

[robertcwp 4,874]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Phil,

 

the classic Gresley formation, that ran with a few tweaks between 1947 and and 1951, is by far the hardest to model. In the grand scheme of things, the Tavern car and friend, were only in the train for a few months in 1949. The typical catering make up for the classic period was FO-RF-TO.

 

The 51 formation is quite simple in comparison, all you require to build yourself is a Gresley RF/RPT combo. The MK1 FK was a end door type, I'm not sure if this is available RTR, the MK1 FO, also an end door type, didn't last too long and was replaced by the Thompson FO. The trains patrons, the great and the good, managed to rid themselves of the nissen hut, did they also object to their dinner bouncing around on the poor ride of the MK1 carriage?

 

 

The Mark 1 FO in the train c1952 was in fact an RFO, end doors only. These had loose chairs intended for short-term occupancy for meals whereas in the Cutler, as shown by the Summer 1952 carriage workings, 30 out of 42 seats were reservable and intended for the whole journey. I wonder if this was a factor in substituting a Thompson FO with proper first class seating, as well as having a better ride? All the Mark 1 types in the train have been produced in 00 by Bachmann.

[PJT 704]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Does anyone know which layout this is? 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

It looked like 'Lowfield' to me on the name board, so I Googled Lowfield and up came the advertisment on RMweb for the Wolverhampton Model Railway Show, 2016, where Lowfield was exhibited.  Other attractions for the show included modelling demonstrations by a chap called Tony Wright...

 

The description for Lowfield was '00 Gauge – A small city centre terminus station exhibited by Cliff Homer'.

 

Pete T.

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by PJT
Added description of Lowfield

[Keith Turbutt 91]

One example of main line trains on a short exhibition layout, although not ECML, is (was?) Sydney Gardens, a prototype location on the approaches to Bath. The baseboards were set quite high for eye level viewing of the trains passing by.

 

Another short layout that comes to mind Tony is Scotland Street. I think this was a Wolverhampton club layout (?) where the goods yard was at the front and the running lines at the back. How long ago was that?

 

Keith

Edited July 12, 2020 by Keith Turbutt
Not Stanley Gardens - should have checked the map

[Headstock 8,807]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

The Mark 1 FO in the train c1952 was in fact an RFO, end doors only. These had loose chairs intended for short-term occupancy for meals whereas in the Cutler, as shown by the Summer 1952 carriage workings, 30 out of 42 seats were reservable and intended for the whole journey. I wonder if this was a factor in substituting a Thompson FO with proper first class seating, as well as having a better ride? All the Mark 1 types in the train have been produced in 00 by Bachmann.

 

Good evening Robert,

 

The RFO was E10, formally SC10. The lose chairs argument sounds logical. If the Thompson FO provided better first class accommodation than E10, that may have been a factor in the later replacement of the MK1 FK with a MK1 CK.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Headstock

[Clearwater 3,669]

19 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

One example of main line trains on a short exhibition layout, although not ECML, is (was?) Stanley Gardens, a prototype location on the approaches to Bath. The baseboards were set quite high for eye level viewing of the trains passing by.

 

Another short layout that comes to mind Tony is Scotland Street. I think this was a Wolverhampton club layout (?) where the goods yard was at the front and the running lines at the back. How long ago was that?

 

Keith

 

Sydney Gardens - a lovely layout!

[Headstock 8,807]

On 05/07/2020 at 15:54, Clem said:

Hi Andrew, 

Very interesting information on the workings.

A couple of points/questions. Attaching the fish vans to the 10-30pm Manchester-Marylebone - presumably that would restist the maximum speed of the express from then on? I can't remember max speed of fitted vans off hand.

Second, I've seen several pictures of the fish south of Leicester with a GW 4-6-0 on it, so that didn't come as a surprise. In your period of modelling (1948-50? ), do you know if the fish trains were timed similar to later? First the Hull, then about 40mims later the Grimsby?

 

On 05/07/2020 at 15:12, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon Clem,

 

sorry I missed your post. I know that a batch of five Fish vans were dropped of at Leicester. They were sent forwards to Marylebone on the tail end of the 10.35 pm express from Manchester, along with a BZ with bakery items.

 

There was quite a complicated engine diagram, the locomotive off the first Fish train of the evening, would come off at Leicester, with the Marylebone bound vans. The loco would then work south with the second fish trains of the evening. The fist Fish train, now lacking a locomotive, proceeded south with the Locomotive off the Northbound Bournemouth York Newcastle express, this was usually an ex GWR Hall. The ex GWR locomotive would alternatively work six weeks on the Fish and then six weeks on the 5.22pm Leicester Woodford ord. The Doncaster based locomotive, usually a B1, that came off the second Fish train, would work trains back to Doncaster via Sheffield. In the later period, when the Fish trains were combined, I've been told that a batch of Fish vans were dropped off from the tail at Woodford, these vans being bound for Marylebone. This may be the train as modeled, I am unsure. Being off the late period and not a train that I have personally modeled, I have not investigated it too deeply.

 

Good evening Clem,

 

some more information on the Fish trains. The Doncaster B1 that came off the second fish train, would pilot the locomotive on the Northbound South Yorkshireman as far as Sheffield. Four or more fish vans would be marshalled outside the brake van on the fish train passing Rugby at approximately 6.40 PM, they were usually bound for Oxford and Banbury (RO July 52).

[Tony Wright 59,932]

11 hours ago, PJT said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

It looked like 'Lowfield' to me on the name board, so I Googled Lowfield and up came the advertisment on RMweb for the Wolverhampton Model Railway Show, 2016, where Lowfield was exhibited.  Other attractions for the show included modelling demonstrations by a chap called Tony Wright...

 

The description for Lowfield was '00 Gauge – A small city centre terminus station exhibited by Cliff Homer'.

 

Pete T.

 

Thanks Pete,

 

So I photographed it at a Wolverhampton Show? How the memory crumbles!

 

WMRC hasn't held a show now for four years, the main reason being not enough members young enough to clear rooms and lug tables around any more. We've all grown older (old!) together. A pity, because it used to be a very good show.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright 59,932]

9 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

One example of main line trains on a short exhibition layout, although not ECML, is (was?) Stanley Gardens, a prototype location on the approaches to Bath. The baseboards were set quite high for eye level viewing of the trains passing by.

 

Another short layout that comes to mind Tony is Scotland Street. I think this was a Wolverhampton club layout (?) where the goods yard was at the front and the running lines at the back. How long ago was that?

 

Keith

Good morning Keith,

 

I don't remember Scotland Street being a WMRC layout; in fact, I can't place the layout at all, though it might have been a member's individual layout. Or, a visiting layout to the club's erstwhile shows. 

 

How long ago? What staggers me now is that I've not been a dweller in Wolverhampton for 16 years! In fact, where we live now is the longest we've ever stayed in one house. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

[john new 2,311]

11 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

One example of main line trains on a short exhibition layout, although not ECML, is (was?) Stanley Gardens, a prototype location on the approaches to Bath. The baseboards were set quite high for eye level viewing of the trains passing by.

 

Another short layout that comes to mind Tony is Scotland Street. I think this was a Wolverhampton club layout (?) where the goods yard was at the front and the running lines at the back. How long ago was that?

 

Keith

Another that worked well, and I say that because unlike many higher quality layouts I can still remember seeing it, was the Virgin trains promo’ layout. Oval, probably 8ft x 6ft or thereabouts if my memory is correct but segmented with angled scenic dividers, again from memory, making four different scenic sections. Yes it was far more entry level than those mentioned earlier but interesting.

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by john new
Typo

[StephenB 109]

I agree with Clearwater, Sydney Gardens is a delightful layout, one of those where you can just stand and watch trains go by.

 

Stephen

[thegreenhowards 6,132]

16 minutes ago, StephenB said:

I agree with Clearwater, Sydney Gardens is a delightful layout, one of those where you can just stand and watch trains go by.

 

Stephen

I agree. I particularly like the way they move through time as the sequence progresses. Starting with steam and ending with Westerns etc.

[thegreenhowards 6,132]

13 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

HI Andy

 

I planned to make Kings Cross, I hand drew the point work to 4mm scale (I am not sure that any points were standard). I discounted doing the overall roof as it would mean too much of the layout would be hidden. I was planning the layout and stock around the 1969 working timetable.

 

I came to the conclusion that most of the layout would become fiddle yard, with all the up trains entering the station from the 3 eastern tracks of gas works tunnel and the down trains the other 3 the fiddle yard tracks so trains could cross from one side to the other would nearly be as complicated as the station throat. Plus a second smaller fiddle yard for the Moorgate trains.

 

With limited space my mind changed to building Passenger Loco and the front of the suburban station. The plan was the trainspotters view from platform 10 to Passenger Loco watching the loco moves on, locos reversing out of the tunnel as if they had just come off the platforms and off shed going back into the tunnel before joining their train going northwards. Along with suburban trains going in and out, using a traverser for the fiddle yard . For the Moorgate trains it was planned a line would run behind the embankment behind Passenger Loco to a sector plate which would line up with Platform 16.

 

Both ideas were halted, and the paper station throat disposed of when we moved here to the middle of nowhere. If you look at my Sheffield Exchange there are elements of the 1977 track plan so I didn't fully abandon my dream of having a model of Kings Cross.

 

Clive,

 

I'm well aware of the link between your Sheffield Exchange and KX. Of course you took the 'easy' option in modelling the 1977 layout with its (more) standard point work.

 

I believe that the earlier layout is achievable using mainly Peco products. I drew up this plan of the throat using the Anyrail software and standard Peco points and I think it's a pretty good likeness - not one for the rivet counters but it is 'OO'!

Some manipulation of points (in the Graham Nicholas way) would be necessary, but I had to do that on Gresley Jn so it doesn't phase me. Building my own points sounds a bit scary so I'd want to keep that to a minimum.

 

I may have posted this on here before, but as it would be 1000ish pages back by now, I hope nobody minds me posting it again. 

 

I need to finish Gresley Jn. first, but I'm hoping work will start on this in a couple of years. I agree with you about the fiddle yard. Some sort of traverser may be necessary. But I'm also thinking about following your approach on Sheffield Exchange and having it feed a large loop - possibly in the garden - with the trains returning to KX directly. The main problem with this is that the carriage formations would be the wrong way round half the time!

 

Andy

 

 

[Keith Turbutt 91]

Hi Tony,

 

Apologies if Scotland Street wasn't one of yours or WMRC's. It was certainly a long while ago - probably in late 70s or 80s.  Anyway, here is a plan taken from Disused Railway Stations - hope I'm not infringing copyright.

It would still make a good subject today. Plenty of shunting opportunities while trains run by on mainline.

 

[CUTLER2579 1,308]

Yes

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Keith,

 

I don't remember Scotland Street being a WMRC layout; in fact, I can't place the layout at all, though it might have been a member's individual layout. Or, a visiting layout to the club's erstwhile shows. 

 

How long ago? What staggers me now is that I've not been a dweller in Wolverhampton for 16 years! In fact, where we live now is the longest we've ever stayed in one house. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

 

Yes,

well we are very tolerant people in Lincolnshire and make allowances for our neighbours 

[APOLLO 12,913]

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

With the mention of main lines in cramped sites, I've been digging through some of my image, and found these two.....................

 

 

 

 

I can't even remember when or where I took these. I can't even remember the layout's name (I can't make out the station nameboard), but it gives the air of a cramped, city centre terminus.

 

Though I'm nor sure why, it reminds a little of the long-closed Liverpool Central. The trackwork is well-made, though those horrid couplings do obtrude. I don't think the signals worked, and as for safety rails!

 

Does anyone know which layout this is? 

 

Sorry I don't recognise the layout - but the "Liverpool Central" look is there with the tracks disappearing into the tunnel with a girder portal at an angle. Liverpool Central (High level) would make a fantastic layout - not very long / wide either.

 

Some interesting trains in its latter years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back in September 1969 - June 1971 I attended Riversdale technical College in Aigburth Liverpool. Train Wigan to Liverpool Lime St & bus down to the tech. We found out that one train ran from the station near the college to Central at a convenient time around 4.30 pm to Central. The bus back to Liverpool was always crowded so we started to use this train (only a few per day back then, nothing for us outbound in the morning). An interesting line even back then with some sidings still in use as we passed the dock area (Herculaneum ?). The loco shed had gone by then.

 

Central was well passed its best, still  double tracked to the terminus (the centre line in the tunnel was disused / lifted). Only one platform was in use, and the place had not long to go, as in these photos.

 

Anyone up to modelling this "era" ? - you only need one working point a two car DMU and some college students with long hair !!

 

 

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by APOLLO
Duplicate photo removed

[Chuffer Davies 1,348]

Hi Tony et al,

As a still relatively recent convert to modelling the LNER and now having built several Ivatt locomotives, the one thing that still fills me with dread is bending the reverse curves on a smokebox wrapper.  Can I ask you and others on this thread your  approach to forming these?  There must be an easier way than how I’m doing it with the shank of a drill bit held in a vice.
Regards,

Frank

 

[Paul Cram 557]

7 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

the shank of a drill bit held in a vice.

Regards,

Frank

 

That's how I do it.

[Leander 1,281]

4 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Hi Tony,

 

Apologies if Scotland Street wasn't one of yours or WMRC's. It was certainly a long while ago - probably in late 70s or 80s.  Anyway, here is a plan taken from Disused Railway Stations - hope I'm not infringing copyright.

It would still make a good subject today. Plenty of shunting opportunities while trains run by on mainline.

 

 

"I am lucky enough to be the custodian of Scotland Street railway layout.

It is a fantastic layout and, true to scale and detail.  It was built by Dave Elbourne and completed in 1988 .  Here is a photo of the model."

Mark Gow, Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland:  14 +16 November 2016"

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_edin_t/0_edinburgh_transport_railways_dy_scotland_street_coal_yard.htm

If memory serves me correctly, Dave was a member of the Leamington & Warwick club. I recall booking the layout for one of the Clay Cross MRS shows at the Alfreton Leisure Centre in the early 1990s. It was an excellent layout with the coal yard in the foreground with the main line at the back. Dave passed away sadly in 2017.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Leander
Edited to include layout photo.

[MJI 3,116]

Well I am now pretty peed off.

 

I was tidying my stock boxes (looking for PCB) and decided to run my BR 4MT as it was second box down (with some chocolate and cream mark 1s).

 

I had a short length of track I was testing a High Level Lowrider on (for my GRCW 119 DMU).

 

Suffice to say new chassis required.

 

Bachmann 4MT 75069 the wheels are to be honest f**ked.

 

Motor is still nice but the wheels - scrap.

 

What should I do?

 

Do any chassis kits allow me to keep the motor?

 

What tools do I need?

 

I have a built a successful motor bogie and three OKish 0-6-0 Diesel shunters 2 still under construction (friction fit wheels are a pain).

[Tony Wright 59,932]

5 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Tony et al,

As a still relatively recent convert to modelling the LNER and now having built several Ivatt locomotives, the one thing that still fills me with dread is bending the reverse curves on a smokebox wrapper.  Can I ask you and others on this thread your  approach to forming these?  There must be an easier way than how I’m doing it with the shank of a drill bit held in a vice.
Regards,

Frank

 

Good afternoon Frank,

 

How do you form the main radius of the wrapper?

 

I use rolling bars..............

 

 

 

Once the main radius has been achieved, I form the reverse curves by putting the wrapper (turning it round) back in the bars for the length required. Finishing off is completed by round-nose pliers and finger pressure. 

 

I assume the wrapper is part of a kit? 

 

 

I align the wrapper and smokebox with cocktail sticks. And burnt fingers! 

 

Rolling bars are as essential as bending bars....................

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.