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6 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

Sorry I don't recognise the layout - but the "Liverpool Central" look is there with the tracks disappearing into the tunnel with a girder portal at an angle. Liverpool Central (High level) would make a fantastic layout - not very long / wide either.

 

Some interesting trains in its latter years.

 

post-27-0-49719200-1512417590.jpeg.c5d25f157263ba62a308b0504272cfc2.jpeg

 

post-27-0-58612500-1512473819.jpeg.a94520acd010bf368be09bc5c7decc39.jpeg

 

post-27-0-00157900-1517921936.jpeg.4988e654d9367561470cbbbef3e52def.jpeg

 

post-27-0-03614500-1512420106.jpeg.7d3b9a88ddb26e962aae2110cdd44c1b.jpeg

 

post-27-0-39948900-1512414642.jpeg.2147ed4a645cc135542cb8333bb06d55.jpeg

 

post-27-0-44401600-1512417506.jpeg.19760682524d1a8aed97dee71c5a16b4.jpeg

 

post-27-0-53759700-1512414523.jpeg.e3902cb2027b0270da5518b6987b2e75.jpeg

 

post-27-0-94349600-1512833100.jpeg.0776ae4328d58cf1a218060a6db69fca.jpeg

 

Back in September 1969 - June 1971 I attended Riversdale technical College in Aigburth Liverpool. Train Wigan to Liverpool Lime St & bus down to the tech. We found out that one train ran from the station near the college to Central at a convenient time around 4.30 pm to Central. The bus back to Liverpool was always crowded so we started to use this train (only a few per day back then, nothing for us outbound in the morning). An interesting line even back then with some sidings still in use as we passed the dock area (Herculaneum ?). The loco shed had gone by then.

 

Central was well passed its best, still  double tracked to the terminus (the centre line in the tunnel was disused / lifted). Only one platform was in use, and the place had not long to go, as in these photos.

 

Anyone up to modelling this "era" ? - you only need one working point a two car DMU and some college students with long hair !!

 

5771976728_bfba23bd6b_b.jpg.ac447567eb85e22c98d6eed1f617be7f.jpg

 

_79178058_79178057.jpg.977c13614811d527410afa09e206a2d5.jpg

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

What superb pictures,

 

Thanks ever so much for showing us. 

 

Liverpool Central was always first port of call for our trainspotting trips from Chester to Liverpool. We'd change at Rock Ferry, then pick up the underground through Birkenhead Central, Hamilton Square, under the Mersey and then to Liverpool Central LL. The steps brought us up to the concourse of the CLC terminus, and it was always worth a look in.

 

Then a walk past Lewis' department store, go by the Adelphi, turning left into Lime Street, thence staying at the main station for a few hours. 

 

The days would end with a quick nip across the square, thence to Tithebarn Street and Liverpool Exchange; home of those elusive Bank Hall Jubs. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Liverpool Central - I would think it's almost enough to tempt @t-b-g from his Sheffield District scheme - compact terminus with, in its heyday, an intensive service including short portions of long-distance expresses, both Midland and GC/CLC, the latter with GE through coaches for several east coast destinations.

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1 hour ago, MJI said:

Well I am now pretty peed off.

 

I was tidying my stock boxes (looking for PCB) and decided to run my BR 4MT as it was second box down (with some chocolate and cream mark 1s).

 

I had a short length of track I was testing a High Level Lowrider on (for my GRCW 119 DMU).

 

Suffice to say new chassis required.

 

Bachmann 4MT 75069 the wheels are to be honest f**ked.

 

Motor is still nice but the wheels - scrap.

 

What should I do?

 

Do any chassis kits allow me to keep the motor?

 

What tools do I need?

 

I have a built a successful motor bogie and three OKish 0-6-0 Diesel shunters 2 still under construction (friction fit wheels are a pain).

'Do any chassis kits allow me to keep the motor?'

 

I doubt it, I'm afraid. 

 

From memory these split-chassis 4-6-0s came with two styles of motor; the earlier 'pancake' type, which was horrid. Later on, there was a kind of 'flywheel' motor, which was much better.

 

I've not heard of either being used in an etched chassis. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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I was just looking at the early 20th century OS 25" map on the National Library of Scotland website. The open-air section is no more than 300 ft long and does indeed include a turntable. The layout only becomes wide under the overall roof - the station did have six platforms - so there's scope for compression and simplification while retaining the character.

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32 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Frank,

 

How do you form the main radius of the wrapper?

 

I use rolling bars..............

 

Once the main radius has been achieved, I form the reverse curves by putting the wrapper (turning it round) back in the bars for the length required. Finishing off is completed by round-nose pliers and finger pressure. 

 

I assume the wrapper is part of a kit? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Hi Tony,

I still use a half inch diameter brass rod and a slice of mouse mat to roll the main curves of the smokebox and boiler,  I have cut the mouse mat into various widths because the wider the strip the more effort it takes to press the brass rod sufficiently to curve the brass to the required diameter.  I quite enjoy this part of the build, it is far easier in practice than many perceive it to be.  But that reverse curve is a pain.  Perhaps if I had a pair of parallel jawed round nosed pliers then that might be the answer. I’ll try and track some down.  
 

Thanks to Paul and yourself for  your help.
 

Frank

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38 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'Do any chassis kits allow me to keep the motor?'

 

I doubt it, I'm afraid. 

 

From memory these split-chassis 4-6-0s came with two styles of motor; the earlier 'pancake' type, which was horrid. Later on, there was a kind of 'flywheel' motor, which was much better.

 

I've not heard of either being used in an etched chassis. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Flywheel motor

 

 

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Credit where credit is due - the Liverpool Central photos are from an earlier rmweb thread here. More info re turntable and signalbox diag etc on this thread --

 

And here

 Liverpool Central - a modelable terminus what's not to like ?

 

Brit15

 

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6 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Tony et al,

As a still relatively recent convert to modelling the LNER and now having built several Ivatt locomotives, the one thing that still fills me with dread is bending the reverse curves on a smokebox wrapper.  Can I ask you and others on this thread your  approach to forming these?  There must be an easier way than how I’m doing it with the shank of a drill bit held in a vice.
Regards,

Frank

 

Hi Frank.

Have you tried these little fellows...

 

IMG_5040_rdcd.jpg.9565f1596f7a8b475d186f828fe34b22.jpg

 

The largest size there is 9mm and the cylinders are 32mm. I don't know whether you can get bigger sizes. I have 3 in different sizes. I've not had them long but they've proved a really good investment.

 

Clem

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

Liverpool Central - I would think it's almost enough to tempt @t-b-g from his Sheffield District scheme - compact terminus with, in its heyday, an intensive service including short portions of long-distance expresses, both Midland and GC/CLC, the latter with GE through coaches for several east coast destinations.

 

I have looked once or twice at Cheshire Lines themed layouts but I don't want to wander too far from my beloved LD&ECR. I know they planned to get to Warrington but I haven't exhausted all the potential of the East Midlands/Yorkshire area just yet.

Edited by t-b-g
Autocorrect changed wander to wonder
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1 hour ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Perhaps if I had a pair of parallel jawed round nosed pliers then that might be the answer. I’ll try and track some down.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Clem said:

Hi Frank.

Have you tried these little fellows...

 

IMG_5040_rdcd.jpg.9565f1596f7a8b475d186f828fe34b22.jpg

 

The largest size there is 9mm and the cylinders are 32mm. I don't know whether you can get bigger sizes. I have 3 in different sizes. I've not had them long but they've proved a really good investment.

 

Clem

 

There's also these, which are parallel action pliers:

https://www.maunindustries.com/round-nose-plier-1/

https://www.maunindustries.com/round-nose-plier-3/

Here's a link for the type Clem mentions:

https://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/-Range=Pliers,_Cutters_and_Shears/-Size=0/-Type=0/-Brand=Wubbers/-Font=0/&prdsearch=y&show=N

 

Edit:

There are endless options available on ebay also, e.g.:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JEWELRY-WRAP-TAP-PLIERS-RING-FORMING-BAIL-MAKING-WIRE-LOOPING-MEN-RING-SIZE/251631671105?hash=item3a966a9741:g:4xsAAOSwHnFVla-A

 

HTH

Brian

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3 hours ago, MJI said:

Motor is still nice but the wheels - scrap.

 

What should I do?

 

It depends on what's wrong with the wheels.  At a guess, if you're saying the wheels are scrap, what you mean is the wheel centres have expanded to the point where they foul the coupling rods, either making your 4MT limp like a lame duck or jamming movement altogether.  That's far and away the most common fault with the 4MT split chassis.  The second most common fault is split plastic 'muffs' in the centres of the axles, but since you're not complaining about wheels going out of quartering and you're saying the wheels themselves are scrap, I suspect you've got expanded wheel centres.

 

There's an easy fix for expanded wheel centres; when I say 'easy', it honestly isn't hard to do (it's a lot easier than any of the other Bachmann split chassis problems).  If you do a search on RMweb for Bachmann BR Class 4 Woes you'll find one of the many threads on here (just happens to be one I contributed to, so I knew what thread title to look for) that details how to deal with Bachmann split chassis expanded wheel centres.  If you read it from the top, you'll do ok.  Half way down the thread is guidance on releasing the coupling rods from the crank pins on the centre drivers - that's important to follow.

 

Good luck! 

 

If your problem isn't expanded wheel centres, I'd be happy for you to PM me and we'll try to sort out what the problem is and decide whether it's curable or not.

 

Pete T.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Manxcat said:

Tony, 

 

The three coaches in the above picture look very interesting. What are they please?

 

Thanks,


Archie

Good evening Archie,

 

The first two (I think) are old BSL kits and the third one is a Lawrence/Goddard vehicle. 

 

I don't actually know the diagrams (perhaps someone with a knowledge of LMS carriages will tell us, please). 

 

They all have an interesting history. One day, Baz Oliver brought along several file cases full of ex-LMS carriages in various states of 'disrepair'. I think he'd acquired them off ebay for a client or was examining them on behalf of the client who'd acquired them.

 

There were several BSL-built carriages in the collection, but none had any bogies. Some had suffered damage, though they appeared to be generally well-made and well-painted (by whom is not known). I was offered several at a very good price, which I accepted. I then built Comet bogies for them or acquired Bachmann or Hornby ones, changing the wheels. Any damage was made good (underframes repaired/patch repainting, etc.,), and they've run on the MR/M&GNR bit ever since. 

 

The Lawrence/Goddard car was one of about a score which Baz also had brought along. Several of these had suffered considerable damage - windows pushed in, some covered in scratches/dents and a fair bit of paint knocked off. 'Can you do anything with these?' I think I was asked. 

 

I repaired as many as I could (15 or so) and they were personally returned to their owner, who was delighted. I discussed with Baz that some were really beyond practicable repair (the owner insists on the highest standards!), so I took them on, patching them up as well as I could. At least two have to be run round one way, because windows on one side were pushed in and my only chance of repair was 'external', using 'Glue 'n' Glaze'. I can live with that, because I don't know how to get inside Larry Goddard carriages. The 'undamaged' sides face south when they run.  In the event, I was effectively given the too-damaged carriages in exchange for the ones I'd repaired, but I insisted on paying something.

 

Others had dented roofs, which I repaired with filler and repainted. Body scratches were filled as best I could and paint-matched also as best as I could. The repairs do show, but the carriages were really too good to scrap. 

 

I have to say, I really don't notice now, and since any visitors only see the 'good' sides, they're none the wiser. 

 

Anyway, the late Ray Earl only ever lettered/numbered his stock on one side on his EM layouts; the side which faced the public.

 

Have I got the above about right, Baz? The memory fades.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, PJT said:

There's an easy fix for expanded wheel centres; when I say 'easy', it honestly isn't hard to do (it's a lot easier than any of the other Bachmann split chassis problems).  If you do a search on RMweb for Bachmann BR Class 4 Woes you'll find one of the many threads on here (just happens to be one I contributed to, so I knew what thread title to look for) that details how to deal with Bachmann split chassis expanded wheel centres.  If you read it from the top, you'll do ok.  Half way down the thread is guidance on releasing the coupling rods from the crank pins on the centre drivers - that's important to follow.

 

 

I'd never heard of this before (though I did know about the wheel muffs) so I've learnt something new today :)

Here's a useful link:

 

HTH

Brian

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19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Archie,

 

The first two (I think) are old BSL kits and the third one is a Lawrence/Goddard vehicle. 

 

I don't actually know the diagrams (perhaps someone with a knowledge of LMS carriages will tell us, please). 

 

They all have an interesting history. One day, Baz Oliver brought along several file cases full of ex-LMS carriages in various states of 'disrepair'. I think he'd acquired them off ebay for a client or was examining them on behalf of the client who'd acquired them.

 

There were several BSL-built carriages in the collection, but none had any bogies. Some had suffered damage, though they appeared to be generally well-made and well-painted (by whom is not known). I was offered several at a very good price, which I accepted. I then built Comet bogies for them or acquired Bachmann or Hornby ones, changing the wheels. Any damage was made good (underframes repaired/patch repainting, etc.,), and they've run on the MR/M&GNR bit ever since. 

 

The Lawrence/Goddard car was one of about a score which Baz also had brought along. Several of these had suffered considerable damage - windows pushed in, some covered in scratches/dents and a fair bit of paint knocked off. 'Can you do anything with these?' I think I was asked. 

 

I repaired as many as I could (15 or so) and they were personally returned to their owner, who was delighted. I discussed with Baz that some were really beyond practicable repair (the owner insists on the highest standards!), so I took them on, patching them up as well as I could. At least two have to be run round one way, because windows on one side were pushed in and my only chance of repair was 'external', using 'Glue 'n' Glaze'. I can live with that, because I don't know how to get inside Larry Goddard carriages. The 'undamaged' sides face south when they run.  In the event, I was effectively given the too-damaged carriages in exchange for the ones I'd repaired, but I insisted on paying something.

 

Others had dented roofs, which I repaired with filler and repainted. Body scratches were filled as best I could and paint-matched also as best as I could. The repairs do show, but the carriages were really too good to scrap. 

 

I have to say, I really don't notice now, and since any visitors only see the 'good' sides, they're none the wiser. 

 

Anyway, the late Ray Earl only ever lettered/numbered his stock on one side on his EM layouts; the side which faced the public.

 

Have I got the above about right, Baz? The memory fades.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I'm pretty sure I had a couple of those coaches, as I was there when Baz turned up.

That was the first time I met Baz.

Of course I could have it completely wrong.

 

Regards,

 

Geoff.

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3 minutes ago, polybear said:

I'd never heard of this before (though I did know about the wheel muffs) so I've learnt something new today :)

Here's a useful link:

 

Yes, that one was the best, if not one of the best threads on the subject.  I couldn't remember enough about it to be able to find it to quote in my post, so thank you!

 

Hopefully our man now has enough on the subject to be able to sort out his sorry loco with confidence.

 

In my experience, probably 80-90% of split chassis failures on Bachmann 4MTs are down to expanded wheel centres, whereas the B1 (that Silver Sidelines deals with) suffers about 50/50 expanded wheels or split muffs (and sometimes both at the same time).

 

I'm just going to hide now, before Tony reads that we've been discussing how to repair split chassis again...

 

Pete T.

 

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35 minutes ago, geoff west said:

Good evening Tony,

 

I'm pretty sure I had a couple of those coaches, as I was there when Baz turned up.

That was the first time I met Baz.

Of course I could have it completely wrong.

 

Regards,

 

Geoff.

Could be Geoff,

 

He had quite a few.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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20 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Ready for delivery for painting......................

 

1573350275_SEFA320plusV2s.jpg.f55448e571dfd262e2a32026a417724b.jpg

 

This trio of latest builds will be off soon to Geoff Haynes for painting, all in BR green. 

 

This clearly is the most economical way of creating/painting locos - in batches, all of the same colour.

 

No doubt Geoff will report on how the paint will go on to the 3D-printed resin V2s. There should not be any problem.

 

I've painted the motion on each one. One still sees steam-outline locos bowling around layouts with gleaming motion. Apart from Royal Train or exhibition duty, this was never right. 

 

Hi Tony,

Do you think you could post some close-ups of the detailing that you've added to the MJT V2's please?  Many thanks

Brian

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On 11/07/2020 at 08:19, great central said:

 

Not Victoria but half a mile or so further north was Carrington. Depending on your time period, small two platform station between two tunnels in a cutting or derelict disused station with little more than a couple of signals and a signal box. 

Plenty of scope for train formations and length without needing to see both ends at the same time.

Not much in the way of backscene required if my memory of the early 60s is accurate. One or two older buildings including the station at the top of the ramp from the platforms and the recently built college on on side.

 

The trouble with Carrington is that, almost literally, "nothing happened".  Not even in Great Central days, when the roughly parallel introduction of electric trams rendered the insertion of a station at this point (as opposed to just a short cutting to let smoke out of two long-ish tunnels!) made it obsolescent practically as soon as it was opened.  Yes, if you had room for large fiddle yards, an extensive collection of suitable stock, and were content to watch it (or perhaps rather bits of it)  trundling between the tunnel mouths for a few seconds at a time ... well maybe; but for most of us I think the attraction would begin to pall in the time it took to lay, wire and test the track, never mind build the layout.

 

Better, I'd suggest, to go another 3/4 mile up the road and look at New Basford - a fairly short GC island platform, mostly on an embankment but with a rock cutting leading to a tunnel at one end for a nice scenic break, a big goods shed (to serve, I think, the many hosiery factories in the local area) and - if you have the space - a carriage shed.  Not  a lot stopped here in latter days, but at least you would get a good satisfying look at your models as they passed through ...

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3 hours ago, Clem said:

Hi Frank.

Have you tried these little fellows...

 

IMG_5040_rdcd.jpg.9565f1596f7a8b475d186f828fe34b22.jpg

 

The largest size there is 9mm and the cylinders are 32mm. I don't know whether you can get bigger sizes. I have 3 in different sizes. I've not had them long but they've proved a really good investment.

 

Clem

Hi Clem,

thanks for showing me these, they are just what I was looking for after reading Tony’s response.  I knew there must be an easier way.  I’ve found some pliers on Amazon and put in an order.  I’ll hang on until they get here and try them on the J1 smokebox wrapper.  
Cheers,

Frank

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A trackplan was set up for making a model of Liverpool Central  (it would fit nicely on the end of Herculaneum Dock .

 

But you would be looking down on it fromabove as it is "in a hole" so to speak.

 

Baz

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20 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

 

The trouble with Carrington is that, almost literally, "nothing happened".  Not even in Great Central days, when the roughly parallel introduction of electric trams rendered the insertion of a station at this point (as opposed to just a short cutting to let smoke out of two long-ish tunnels!) made it obsolescent practically as soon as it was opened.  Yes, if you had room for large fiddle yards, an extensive collection of suitable stock, and were content to watch it (or perhaps rather bits of it)  trundling between the tunnel mouths for a few seconds at a time ... well maybe; but for most of us I think the attraction would begin to pall in the time it took to lay, wire and test the track, never mind build the layout.

 

Better, I'd suggest, to go another 3/4 mile up the road and look at New Basford - a fairly short GC island platform, mostly on an embankment but with a rock cutting leading to a tunnel at one end for a nice scenic break, a big goods shed (to serve, I think, the many hosiery factories in the local area) and - if you have the space - a carriage shed.  Not  a lot stopped here in latter days, but at least you would get a good satisfying look at your models as they passed through ...

 

Good evening Willie Whiz,

 

I've got all the stock. If someone cares to build little Carrington and a ginormous fiddle yard, I'm quite happy to watch it trundle past, bit by bit, a few seconds at a time. I think it may take a wee bit longer than that though. New Basford, I can trundle the same stock past there too, I don't do latter days though, boring stock, not worth the trundle.

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The coaches were from a common friend Tony. There had been a lot of damage done to various coaches by a third party. The Blood and Custard ones were no longer required. Theywere BSL but definitely not from Larry or Mr Lawrence.

 

The maroon ones had benn nent and bashed..indeed I have some more for sale now.

 

Geoff if I sold you some coaches glad you can remember them!

Baz

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