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14 hours ago, Clem said:

Good morning Tony,

I think the lightweights were around as early as 1955 and actually ran on the Derby line for trials.  It prompted me to get one in for conversion some years ago. But to be honest, I've got enough on doing steam (which is always going to come first with me, obviously) and I'm not sure when or if I'll get around to it. Clive made the point that there were Cravens  at Lincoln in 1958 but I must say that I never saw one in all my trips to Grantham in the late 50s/early 60s. It was always the class 114s.

If you did decide to build a DMU Tony, I'm sure it would be of top quality but, Deltics aside, I'm sure you're a 100% steam man (like me - with all respect to Clive and other diesel fans).

The two photographs I posted were both dated 1955 for the heavyweight DMUs.  The first one should be credited to Roy Harrison, who photographed many interesting railway byways in Lincolnshire.  I am unsure of the provenance of the second image, which was taken to mark the first visit of a modern DMU to Lincoln.  (The Paxman conversion and GWR railcar preceded this).

The class 114 were originally all allocated to Lincoln, and became just as much a part of the local scene as the C12's and J6's before them.

The photograph was taken in 1987, part of a record of the depot buildings, before they were re-purposed as part of the university campus.  The top right shows Class 114s stored and waiting to be moved for scrap.

 

As with Clem, I would like an RTR model of the class, as any layout depicting Lincolnshire between the fifties and eighties would be bereft without them.

1497759202_HolmesYard19874.jpg.53990acd92cc6383981942ec63584ba0.jpg

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8 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

All I can tell you is that my experience of building MTK DMUs and wagons was not in any way stressful - certainly no worse than building Keyser's kits - though a newer generation of modellers sees fit to tear apart the reputation of that excellent company too.

 

It is all to easy nowadays to judge kits from the past by today's standards. Unless you were there - as you and I were - it's impossible to remember how little there was apart from the very limited ranges of RTR. We were more than happy to get out the tools, fettle the components; tweak the motors and fill the gaps between the castings with car body filler or solder ........ and we were bl**dy proud of the results, too!

 

It would seem, from the above posting, that at least one customer managed to make something worthwhile from the MTK Standard Five kit. My model of the same loco was 'bashed' from a Hornby tender-drive Black Five chassis and boiler; Kitmaster/ Airfix Standard Mogul components and a cast whitemetal high-sided Standard tender body kit. Despite the questionable provenance, it won a trophy at that year's Cambridge model railway exhibition.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Good morning John,

 

I don't know whether I was judging older kit's by today's standards, just from my memory of how difficult some of them were to build.

 

Though others have managed it, I could never get any of K's mechanical parts to work to my satisfaction. Any manifestation of the firm's driving wheels defeated me, whether they be pre-quartered (for the 'keyhole' frames), right up to the final 'D' wheels and axles. As for the motors, I replaced every single one I used (and it was well into double figures). 

 

It would be interesting to see a picture of that finished MTK BR Standard Five. The castings in mine were so deformed that I considered it an impossibility to make.

 

It could well be (rather perversely) that the difficulties encountered in 'our' formative model-making days, made us 'better' modellers, eventually. Having to overcome the various problems presented by those kits of yore certainly engendered a sense of self-reliance, which has helped me ever since (though not in every discipline, I admit). 

 

Whatever the 'rights and wrongs' in the history of various kits, it's still the case that well over 90% of them (especially locos) are never completed to 'satisfaction'. By that, I mean excellent runners, well-finished and accurate to the prototype. Most lie in dusty boxes (even the 'better' ones), a sad history of the builder's failures. I'm told the likes of ebay is awash with them, and I've lost count of the number of such abominations I've seen, with the plaintive question 'Can anything be done with this?'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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49 minutes ago, 45568 said:

Good afternoon (WST) Tony,

                                                  In the spirit of your 'lockdown modelling' request, I offer the following:

1232104097_B2two002.JPG.a621ede6a3a3c88de6657c207c4c077e.JPG

A Hornby B2, from a Hornby B1 and Hornby B17 parts.

2012596490_jay38two004.JPG.67bea9b9b0970f2ae82d7b1edd3699c4.JPG

A Bachmann J38, this was a result of using up remaining parts of other projects, and just to see whether it was feasible! Certainly not within my usual modelling area, a very localised class not seen in the East Midlands.

Cheers from Fortress WestOz,

Peter Chandler

 

Great stuff, Peter,

 

Full marks for noting that NORWICH CITY was the only B2 to have ten-spoke bogie wheels. 

 

Regarding the J38, I assume that's the original Bachmann 4,200 gall GS tender? I believe the J38s had the smaller GS type. Nonetheless, it's excellent modelling, on both locos.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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59 minutes ago, 45568 said:

Good afternoon (WST) Tony,

                                                  In the spirit of your 'lockdown modelling' request, I offer the following:

1232104097_B2two002.JPG.a621ede6a3a3c88de6657c207c4c077e.JPG

A Hornby B2, from a Hornby B1 and Hornby B17 parts.

2012596490_jay38two004.JPG.67bea9b9b0970f2ae82d7b1edd3699c4.JPG

A Bachmann J38, this was a result of using up remaining parts of other projects, and just to see whether it was feasible! Certainly not within my usual modelling area, a very localised class not seen in the East Midlands.

Cheers from Fortress WestOz,

Peter Chandler

 

 

Highly Impressive work Peter. Lets hope Hornby are paying attention. One question,how about the B2 Tender. I thought 61639 towed a P1 Tender from memory,but I have not consulted "Yeadons" as I am supposed to be plastering !!!!.

Beware SWMBO.

Regards,Derek.

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11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Great stuff, Peter,

 

Full marks for noting that NORWICH CITY was the only B2 to have ten-spoke bogie wheels. 

 

Regarding the J38, I assume that's the original Bachmann 4,200 gall GS tender? I believe the J38s had the smaller GS type. Nonetheless, it's excellent modelling, on both locos.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Looks like a 3500 gallon Tender, judging from the apparent length of the cutouts on the top.

 

Lovely work. How did you re wheel the Bachmann chassis ?

 

It also shows how good the Bachmann body still is, a great shame Bachmann decided to not produce a new chassis for it.

Edited by micklner
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12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

'Such adverse comment should only be made on the basis of personal experience.'

 

What kind of experience of MTK kits should I comment on, John, other than personal?

 

Have you ever tried to build an MTK BR Standard Five? It was months before I stopped twitching, even long after the refuse collectors had taken it away!  

 

I tried to build some MTK gangwayed Gresleys (which had a one piece bodyshell which included the roof). Did the cast metal ends fit? Never in a million years. The proportions were all wrong and the beading hopeless. 

 

I also tried to build one of the diesel loco kits, but I couldn't decide what it was meant to be.

 

If you want a second opinion on MTK's DMU kits, ask Tony Geary. 

 

Even the proprietor, the late Colin Massingham, branded his O Gauge range 'El Crappo', complete with a drawing of a defecating donkey. 

 

I believe the late Alastair Rolfe took on some of the range, and improved it beyond recognition in his 'No Nonsense' kits. These must be the ones now available from NNK (Phoenix).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

You just need to take your time with MTK kits, I have had these for 30 years, they were only motorised last year.

100_5662.JPG.60d009eca1106abd48fdb039e19feabb.JPG

 

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10 hours ago, Headstock said:

I wonder what wonderful little critters got zapped when the L1's arrived, J5's, N5's, N7's?

Good morning Andrew.

 

Changes to Colwick motive power in the mid 1950s:

In 1955, 3 L1s and 3 more A5s came to Colwick, plus a couple of J11s and a couple more J6s. They can be matched with 3 withdrawn J5s and 2 withdrawn J6s as well as the transfer to West Yorks or withdrawal of all the remaining N1s. The N5s also moved away North to Sheffield and were replaced by J69s from Stratford. The J1s and J2s went a year or two earlier.  The N7s left for Stratford in April 1954. A couple or so N7s remained at Annesley until late 1956.

 

From about 1955 the main shunting tank for Colwick yards changed from being almost exclusinvely J52s to a mixture of J50s, J69s and J94s as the J52s dwindled and finally disappeared in April 1958.

 

In January 1956, there was a big heavy freight engine reorganisation with many O4s leaving for Mexborough and replaced with WDs. Before January 1956 34 O4s and 47 WDs.  After January 1956 Colwick had over 60 WDs and only 16 O4s. 

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6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Dear old Colin. The phrase "lovable rogue" was tailor-made for him.

In the 1970's my older brother worked in Maidenhead and got to know Colin well, Colin found out my brother was intending to purchase a nameplate from a GW Castle and convinced him that a better idea was to purchase Hymek 7029 with a couple of others. My brother said he didn't regret the purchase, but it would have been far easier screwing the nameplate to the wall.

 

My memory of Colin was a somewhat 'Hairy' ride in a Triumph Vitesse, it wasn't so much the sound of the exhaust but the grin on the driver and his laughing :D

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Well done Clive to persevere with those MTK kits. I bought four MTK diesel locos back in the early 70's when I changed from TT to OO - A class 40 45, Clayton and 25. I built the 40 & Clayton bodies but couldn't fathom how to motorise them so they've been in limbo - part of my "historic collection" (or is it hysterical collection). Joueff brought out their 40, Mainline the 45, Hornby the 25 and a long wait for the Heljan Clayton.

 

My latest project is a bit DMU'ish - A North American freelance "Gas Electric" Doodlebug (as they were nicknamed) and trailer made with cut down O scale Rivarossi continental coaches and a Bachman O gauge DMU motor bogie bought many moons ago from Norman Wissendens wonderful though long closed model shop at Greenfield. I asked Clive how he cut his coaches - I used a Stanley knife on the sides and a razor saw on the roof after much careful marking checking etc. I'm pleased with the results, just a smidgin of filling needed. The motor bogie runs well and with a bit of weight pills both cars smoothly. Lots of work is still to do with detail, end windows, roof details etc

 

Mine is of no known prototype - many of the smaller American Railroads built (and rebuilt existing) such cars in backwoods shops - some right unwieldy results ensued - but they worked, keeping some sort of affordable passenger service viable on many lines.

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

And only it's mother could love this !!

o15u52069918570807088.jpg

 

This  Santa Fe unit is interesting

7v933eu0f2943v68.jpg

 

And a typical Doodlebug.

doodlebug-31-headed-south-from-jc-2.jpg

 

Copy of a Brill unit from an old Railway Modeller mag (never throw your mags away  - especially the old 'uns !!)

191219122_zIMG_1388rszd.JPG.5a663079eab6f07851e3ff3216366eb3.JPG

 

Uncut too long coach - 2 window lengths need removing. It will be a Rock Island unit - (as it was a mighty fine line !!!)

768708310_zIMG_1389rszd.JPG.b10c06541412bfe327f3d41685ca6ab2.JPG

 

Power car done - Work in progress, on the second (trailer) car. Fitting the Bachmann motor bogie was a doddle.

1055849566_zIMG_1392rszd.JPG.f90f1464fe3c7ef11accb4b849491d5b.JPG

 

Units under test - they ran very well (makes a change !!). The enlarged window will be the door to the baggage / mail compartment.

1149551054_zIMG_1396rszd.JPG.ef5e325cb74c93d862b24c2c80d27f34.JPG

 

Front windows cut, need tidying up. Still plenty to do. She is at the Continental Divide - a bit higher than Ais Gill or Shap !!

1117549500_zIMG_1399rszd.JPG.199088ae859e0719e58a99af4dbbd03e.JPG

 

As Tony often writes, there is a pleasure in making things and getting them running.

 

Brit15

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22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'll stick with my Cravens on LB, right or not (I can feel the anguish on the part of those who only follow the path of righteousness!), although a B12/3 and arcane carriages are occasionally substituted, representing earlier times

 

The righteous can relax: a picture of a Cravens set working a Lincoln service in 1962 appears in the Oakwood Press book on the Lincoln to Grantham line, along with several photos of 114s, a B12 and an A5.

 

There's a photo of a Derby Lightweight on the line on this page.

 

 

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13 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

All I can tell you is that my experience of building MTK DMUs and wagons was not in any way stressful - certainly no worse than building Keyser's kits - though a newer generation of modellers sees fit to tear apart the reputation of that excellent company too.

 

It is all to easy nowadays to judge kits from the past by today's standards. Unless you were there - as you and I were - it's impossible to remember how little there was apart from the very limited ranges of RTR. We were more than happy to get out the tools, fettle the components; tweak the motors and fill the gaps between the castings with car body filler or solder ........ and we were bl**dy proud of the results, too!

 

It would seem, from the above posting, that at least one customer managed to make something worthwhile from the MTK Standard Five kit. My model of the same loco was 'bashed' from a Hornby tender-drive Black Five chassis and boiler; Kitmaster/ Airfix Standard Mogul components and a cast whitemetal high-sided Standard tender body kit. Despite the questionable provenance, it won a trophy at that year's Cambridge model railway exhibition.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

You can still have this experience today. Go pre grouping. 
you are kit building at best, because you have to. Some fine modern kits but not of everything you need. So the older kits are a must, picked up where you can. eBay half built or bits missing is taken as par for the course. 
for those bits missing you have to get inventive. I have had to learn casting, building in brass, plasticard, wood, white metal, resin, 3D prints. I had to learn cad ( though I need to get much better at it.) only this morning I had to make some springs and axle boxes for a scratch build carriage bogie. Why? Because I could track down enough bogies to go under my latest rake of carriages to build, except one. So out with the drill, and files and techniques learnt from Tony to make the missing one. 
richard
 

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It could well be (rather perversely) that the difficulties encountered in 'our' formative model-making days, made us 'better' modellers, eventually. Having to overcome the various problems presented by those kits of yore certainly engendered a sense of self-reliance, which has helped me ever since (though not in every discipline, I admit).

 

Now that is entirely true - and best sums up what I fear will be lost to the general body of younger railway modellers of today.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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In the spirit of show and tell, I’ve got my iron working and have got this far on a Comet chassis.  I don’t think it moves too badly under the crocodile clips.  I’ve tried putting pickups on once which resulted in abject failure.  I’ll have another go but probably from the top of the wheels as they’ll then by hidden by the body.  Also, are there any tips on how to attach RTR plastic bodies to frames?

 

David

 

 

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Fully agree with your sentiments gents (Tony Isherwood and Tony Wright) it seems that far fewer new and younger modellers have a go at scratch or kit building than of yore. However, to be fair, the quality and quantity of what was available ready to run was very restricted so we had no choice if we wanted to run something a "bit special". Thus the incentive to build nowdays is reduced due to the range and quality of ready to run stock.

 

Whatever one's views on the subject I just think that if you avoid having a go at building, say, a loco, you are missing so much pleasure and healthy reward. I just love bulding loco's, all the research before starting, working with some of the really helpful and friendly suppliers of parts and dealing with each problem as it occurs. All of which has been so helpful to wellbeing during lockdown

 

Sorry to go on gents!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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5 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 a Triumph Vitesse, it wasn't so much the sound of the exhaust but the grin on the driver and his laughing :D

Reminds me of a college mate who had a Vitesse in the late 60's.  Straight 6 engine in what was basically a Triumph Herald.  No room in the back (but we often managed 3) and the exhaust sound!  I have feeling he may have had a non-standard 'big bore' one but it was magnificent.  Good performance for the day but your average family saloon these days would easily see it off.  Not only in speed but in handling.

 

He swopped it for a MGC - the proper straight 6 one.  It got into an argument with a tree - and came off second best..............

 

He's OK though!

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5 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Well done Clive to persevere with those MTK kits. I bought four MTK diesel locos back in the early 70's when I changed from TT to OO - A class 40 45, Clayton and 25. I built the 40 & Clayton bodies but couldn't fathom how to motorise them so they've been in limbo - part of my "historic collection" (or is it hysterical collection). Joueff brought out their 40, Mainline the 45, Hornby the 25 and a long wait for the Heljan Clayton.

 

My latest project is a bit DMU'ish - A North American freelance "Gas Electric" Doodlebug (as they were nicknamed) and trailer made with cut down O scale Rivarossi continental coaches and a Bachman O gauge DMU motor bogie bought many moons ago from Norman Wissendens wonderful though long closed model shop at Greenfield. I asked Clive how he cut his coaches - I used a Stanley knife on the sides and a razor saw on the roof after much careful marking checking etc. I'm pleased with the results, just a smidgin of filling needed. The motor bogie runs well and with a bit of weight pills both cars smoothly. Lots of work is still to do with detail, end windows, roof details etc

 

Mine is of no known prototype - many of the smaller American Railroads built (and rebuilt existing) such cars in backwoods shops - some right unwieldy results ensued - but they worked, keeping some sort of affordable passenger service viable on many lines.

 

maxresdefault.jpg

 

And only it's mother could love this !!

o15u52069918570807088.jpg

 

This  Santa Fe unit is interesting

7v933eu0f2943v68.jpg

 

And a typical Doodlebug.

doodlebug-31-headed-south-from-jc-2.jpg

 

Copy of a Brill unit from an old Railway Modeller mag (never throw your mags away  - especially the old 'uns !!)

191219122_zIMG_1388rszd.JPG.5a663079eab6f07851e3ff3216366eb3.JPG

 

Uncut too long coach - 2 window lengths need removing. It will be a Rock Island unit - (as it was a mighty fine line !!!)

768708310_zIMG_1389rszd.JPG.b10c06541412bfe327f3d41685ca6ab2.JPG

 

Power car done - Work in progress, on the second (trailer) car. Fitting the Bachmann motor bogie was a doddle.

1055849566_zIMG_1392rszd.JPG.f90f1464fe3c7ef11accb4b849491d5b.JPG

 

Units under test - they ran very well (makes a change !!). The enlarged window will be the door to the baggage / mail compartment.

1149551054_zIMG_1396rszd.JPG.ef5e325cb74c93d862b24c2c80d27f34.JPG

 

Front windows cut, need tidying up. Still plenty to do. She is at the Continental Divide - a bit higher than Ais Gill or Shap !!

1117549500_zIMG_1399rszd.JPG.199088ae859e0719e58a99af4dbbd03e.JPG

 

As Tony often writes, there is a pleasure in making things and getting them running.

 

Brit15

My wife and I travelled on something similar to the doodlebugs, up the Douro valley in Portugal a few years ago.  Fantastically noisy, but cool enough with all the  windows open and a lovely line to spend the day on.

 

Tone

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33 minutes ago, 5050 said:

Reminds me of a college mate who had a Vitesse in the late 60's.  Straight 6 engine in what was basically a Triumph Herald.  No room in the back (but we often managed 3) and the exhaust sound!  I have feeling he may have had a non-standard 'big bore' one but it was magnificent.  Good performance for the day but your average family saloon these days would easily see it off.  Not only in speed but in handling.

 

'Hark, the Herald axles swing', as we Triumph drivers used to say.  At least with the Italian Michelotti design of the Herald and Vitesse, the back end of your car would hop around a roundabout in a reasonably stylish sort of way.

 

Pete T.

 

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30 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

The pedals in the Herald were offset. it was very strange when you first got in one but you got used to it after a while.

 

And on how many other affordable cars could you open the bonnet and sit in comfort on the front wheel while you worked on the engine?

 

Pete T.

 

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35 minutes ago, PJT said:

 

And on how many other affordable cars could you open the bonnet and sit in comfort on the front wheel while you worked on the engine?

 

Pete T.

 

 

I used to be able to sit on the scuttle of a Vauxhall Omega to change the cam belt, compared to Vectra fitting of via a small hole it was luxury.

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OK does anyone know anything about LMS 4-4-0s?

 

I could do with a few, probably 2.

 

Midland Railway 2P, LMS 2P and the compound.

 

The other locos are easy Castle Hall Jubilee and such I can aquire decent models but the 440s hmmm.

 

May be getting a LRM 0-4-4T.

 

I am trying to build a few backdated trains for the fun of it, which means lots of dirty ex MR LMS GWR stuff with the odd other thing.

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