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1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think that should be a colon. Or a full stop.

 

Seriously, although I went to a Grammar School, and a Preparatory School before that, I feel quite inept on the finer points of punctuation. Did we not get taught them? Or have I forgotten them, like so much else that I learned at school?

 

Note that a journalist friend of mine would disapprove of the comma in that last sentence.

I don't know whether I was actually taught the tenets of grammar/punctuation, Joseph. However, I was taught to be able to differentiate between what was 'right and wrong'. Or, what sounded right or wrong. 

 

For example; my English teacher would tell us, after we'd written, say, an essay, to read it out loud (not too loud, for that would have resulted in chaos and, thus, beatings). Wherever we needed to take a breath, or emphasise something or pause, almost invariably that would require some form of punctuation (are there too many commas in these sentences?). His words of wisdom have stuck with me ever since.  

 

Do you think standards in English have dropped of late, particularly in the media in all its forms? 

 

As you might know, I'm a great cricket fan, but I turn the sound off whenever David Lloyd is on commentary. Though he might once have been a good player and have a wide knowledge of the game, he 'murders' our mother tongue. 

 

'He's been stood at short leg for most of the match'. 'He's just took a leg stump guard'. 'That bloke sat behind the bowler's arm will have to move'. And on and on.................. I despair! 

 

Mr Atherton isn't much better (and he's university-educated!). ' Myself and the West Indian captain have been discussing.............' Or words to that effect. Oh dear. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
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5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know whether I was actually taught the tenets of grammar/punctuation, Joseph. However, I was taught to be able to differentiate between what was 'right and wrong'. Or, what sounded right or wrong. 

 

For example; my English teacher would tell us, after we'd written, say, an essay, to read it out loud (not too loud, for that would have resulted in chaos and, thus, beatings). Wherever we needed to take a breath, or emphasise something or pause, almost invariably that would require some form of punctuation (are there too many commas in these sentences?). His words of wisdom have stuck with me ever since.  

 

Do you think standards in English have dropped of late, particularly in the media in all its forms? 

 

As you might know, I'm a great cricket fan, but I turn the sound off whenever David Lloyd is on commentary. Though he might once have been a good player and have a wide knowledge of the game, he 'murders' our mother tongue. 

 

'He's been stood at short leg for most of the match'. 'He's just took a leg stump guard'. 'That bloke sat behind the bowler's arm will have to move'. And on and on.................. I despair! 

 

Mr Atherton isn't much better (and he's university-educated!). ' Myself and the West Indian captain have been discussing.............' Or words to that effect. Oh dear. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

They are both Lancastrians.

 

Just sayin'...

 

My parents (Dad was also a Lancastrian, as those who know my surname will have guessed) once stayed on holiday in the same hotel as the Lloyds. During a conversation it emerged that David Lloyd is, or at least was at that time, a bit of a model railway man.

 

Anyway, you should listen to TMS and watch the telly with the sound turned down. Much better all round.

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The English language in written and spoken form has evolved over centuries, and with the invention of modern means of communication that change has accelerated.

 

Going forward,you dudes are going to have to keep the grammar on the lowkey and learn to flex about something else.......:rolleyes:

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18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Do you think standards in English have dropped of late, particularly in the media in all its forms? 

 

 

 

Of that I have no doubt at all.

 

Even on the BBC News, poor syntax leads to some completely misleading reports. 

 

And as for the spelling on the rolling captions....

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15 hours ago, Mark C said:

Stotfold, for example....

I lived in Stotfold for a year or so in about 1985 while I worked at ICL in Letchworth.  Hated living so far south away from a decent pint.

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11 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

The English language in written and spoken form has evolved over centuries, and with the invention of modern means of communication that change has accelerated.

 

Going forward,you dudes are going to have to keep the grammar on the lowkey and learn to flex about something else.......:rolleyes:

Lighting a second twist of blue touch paper ...

 

Or as Ali G might put it: "Gwaan forward, you dudes iz gonna af keep da grammar on da lowkey an' learn to flex about sumfink else."

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Members of the Gauge O Guild and the Scalefour Society may already know this, but the whole Hollar Models range of wagon posters is now available as free downloads.

 

The 4mm range is on the Scalefour Society's web site (https://www.scalefour.org/hollar/) and the 7mm range from the GOG's site  (https://www.scalefour.org/hollar/). 

 

Tone

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32 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Of that I have no doubt at all.

 

Even on the BBC News, poor syntax leads to some completely misleading reports. 

 

And as for the spelling on the rolling captions....

A counter position .... I do find when viewing News etc from years gone by (the year that was), the presentation now sounds affected and stilted to the point of parody.

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2 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

A counter position .... I do find when viewing News etc from years gone by (the year that was), the presentation now sounds affected and stilted to the point of parody.

Perhaps Tim,

 

However, we have no one to replace the likes of Sylvia Peters, Richard Dimbleby or Raymond Glendenning (I hope I've spelled their names correctly). 

 

Perfect diction, perfect pronunciation, perfect annunciation and impossible to misunderstand.  

 

Or, am I just nostalgic for a time when steam locos ruled our rails?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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12 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Perhaps Tim,

 

However, we have no one to replace the likes of Sylvia Peters, Richard Dimbleby or Raymond Glendenning (I hope I've spelled their names correctly). 

 

Perfect diction, perfect pronunciation, perfect annunciation and impossible to misunderstand.  

 

Or, am I just nostalgic for a time when steam locos ruled our rails?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I may be way off base ... but I suspect that what many who find today's spoken world somewhat painful  might actually want, is a contemporary updated version of a past, which chimes with there own preferences (prejudices?) .... and in reality they might find a return to the days of yore not exactly what they have selectively remembered. I find it facinating how often I return to something I enjoyed in the past to find it markedly differrent from the memory and often jarring - not always, but often.

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11 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

I may be way off base ... but I suspect that what many who find today's spoken world somewhat painful  might actually want, is a contemporary updated version of a past, which chimes with there own preferences (prejudices?) .... and in reality they might find a return to the days of yore not exactly what they have selectively remembered. I find it facinating how often I return to something I enjoyed in the past to find it markedly differrent from the memory and often jarring - not always, but often.

Agreed Tim,

 

But just listen to the presentations of those I've mentioned (and many of their contemporaries) to see what I mean. 

 

Then, listen to some of today's. Accents so 'thick' as to be incomprehensible at times. Jarring, squawking and shrill tones, so much so as to be hard on my ears. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony

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23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Agreed Tim,

 

But just listen to the presentations of those I've mentioned (and many of their contemporaries) to see what I mean. 

 

Then, listen to some of today's. Accents so 'thick' as to be incomprehensible at times. Jarring, squawking and shrill tones, so much so as to be hard on my ears. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony

During the recent test series against Pakistan they have been playing archive recordings of lunchtime discussions from the past ... the two I listened to were Peter O-Toole and John Cleese ... both in conversation with Brian Johnstone. Very entertaining .... but also very much period pieces which to my ear tipped ever so slightly into Parody. No doubt if the discussions were contemporary they would have come across stilted & odd!

 

I like accents and regional variation ... I enjoy idiomatic english and the myriad of local ways that grammer is 'twisted and butchered' from a purist standpoint. That said there are certain accents which I find jarring and unpleasant, which I think in the end is down to taste. I have recently been watching some of the early Fred Dibnah offerings on Youtube ... in purist terms he certainly 'butchers' the queens english, and I suspect even at the time there was an element of self parody in the programmes ... but for me they are of considerable merit none the less and I appreciate the regional richness of sentence construction and vocabulary. God save us from bland uniformity.

 

Of course, one person's treat can be another person's poison.

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2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

The English language in written and spoken form has evolved over centuries, and with the invention of modern means of communication that change has accelerated.

 

Going forward,you dudes are going to have to keep the grammar on the lowkey and learn to flex about something else.......:rolleyes:

Despite Dave's progressive use of our native tongue, don't be mislead. When he is in the dark triangle of Sandy, Potton and Biggleswade he can spark up a conversation with the locals speaking in their fluent 12th century Anglo-Saxon and use his limited Franco-Norman when communicating with the Lord of the Manor.

 

And before I get any come back, being a born Bedfordian by the time I went to secondary school I could swear in Italian, Urdu, Polish, Punjabi and Swahili all in a West Indian accent. 

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3 hours ago, Lecorbusier said:

A counter position .... I do find when viewing News etc from years gone by (the year that was), the presentation now sounds affected and stilted to the point of parody.

 

That is a totally different matter. I am all for a more relaxed style of presentation than used to be the case: just as I am for more informality in clothing at work.

 

But when the writers of the news bulletin, not the presenters, can not construct a sentence so it means what they want it to mean, it devalues the news story.

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1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

But when the writers of the news bulletin, not the presenters, can not construct a sentence so it means what they want it to mean, it devalues the news story.

If by that you mean that it is open to misunderstanding or misinterpretation I could not disagree.

 

However if both the nuance and meaning are clear and concise, then I tend to be more relaxed.

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Top drawer in 4mm modelling? Geoff Haynes built and painted this Mitchell 'Castle' in P4. 

 

1194617638_Kingstorre06B.jpg.631033562bd48822ec0a0edfe9ffcd52.jpg

 

Another fine 'Castle', this time in EM, running on Robert Dudley-Cooke's Kingstorre. 

 

1183000612_Kingstorre05.jpg.812b1345442f4837de51e950c1d35475.jpg

 

SR locos also operate on Kingstorre. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Always nice to see some photos of Kingstorre. I think it may be one of my favorite layouts, based on the magazine articles and videos. It hits just the right spot between freelance and prototype, in my view.

 

Now, (while indulging in a split-infinitive) may I gently take Sir to task over one grammatical matter? I would suggest that the hyphen in:

 

The weathering is very-natural.

 

is in error.

 

This would be a correctly hyphenated usage, but the hyphen

could still be omitted without loss of clarity:

 

Note the very-natural weathering, 

 

 

see:

 

https://www.editorgroup.com/blog/to-hyphenate-or-not-to-hyphenate/

 

Al

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On the subject of pronunciation, it is very instructive to listen to the way HM the Queen's own English has evolved over the years, as for example demonstrated in her Christmas Broadcasts.

 

The BBC is often - even now - regarded as the fount of "posh" spoken English, but whatever accent HM used to use it certainly wasn't 'Received Pronunciation' as somewhat standardised by the BBC in days of yore.  Anyone who has watched  the first series of The Crown on Netflix (highly recommended, by the way) will catch a flavour of the high-pitched strangulated tones she used to use, but I'm pretty certain even that was dialled-down considerably so as to be more fully intelligible to modern British ears, let alone the American audience. 

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"With Hornby's P2 available, who needs to do this sort of thing now?"

 

Anyone wanting a decent P2....

 

My pal has had all sorts of issues with his D B. Version and regrets not just plumping for the railroad 'bog standard' version to cut about and improve.

Spec and features wise it was very much a case of Hornby plumping for the "ah, but I saw you coming" reasoning.

He's also just recieved an A2/2 of Waverley, PDK kit and feeling sorry for himself with Hornby announcing their forthcoming.

I don't know why myself, even ex-crownline beats rtr hands down. Particularly when you have to take the surgeons implements of reconstruction out to get what you want.

 

 

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8 hours ago, jacko said:

I lived in Stotfold for a year or so in about 1985 while I worked at ICL in Letchworth.  Hated living so far south away from a decent pint.

What?  Abbott Ale not to your liking...??!!

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7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Perhaps Tim,

 

However, we have no one to replace the likes of Sylvia Peters, Richard Dimbleby or Raymond Glendenning (I hope I've spelled their names correctly). 

 

Perfect diction, perfect pronunciation, perfect annunciation and impossible to misunderstand.  

 

Or, am I just nostalgic for a time when steam locos ruled our rails?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Enunciation surely!

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8 minutes ago, Mark C said:

What?  Abbott Ale not to your liking...??!!

 Must admit, speaking as a northerner (Lancastrian near the Yorkshire Dales) none of the Greene King brews have been to my liking. My first pint of real ale was in 1973 and was Theakston's Bitter when it as still brewed at Masham. What a revelation! We spoke to the barman who showed us a very slim volume entitled "The Good Beer Guide". There were 2 pubs in there that brewed their own beer. These had to be tried first, then closer to home we discovered Boddingtons Bitter brewed at Strangeways. Now there was a force to be reckoned with, the eighth pint tasted as good as the first. Sorry, Greene King beers just do not come close, the nearest that I have to the last pint tasting as good as the first is Oakham Beers JHB, another good session beer with lots of flavour.

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7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

With Hornby's forthcoming A2/2 (this actual engine as one) there'll now be no need for this sort of inventiveness; another 'loss' to the hobby. 

 

Oh I don't know. There will always be people who want to do things themselves and will use RTR as a platform for further modelling. 

 

Plus, as the RTR companies produce more of the 'common' locomotives it provides the opportunity to focus on some uncommon ones - be that from kits, or scratchbuilding.

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