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25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The carriages appear to be ex-LMS in origin (I could be wrong, of course - could the third one be ex-GWR?), and the first one might be pre-Grouping. All seem to be non-gangwayed. 

 

 

My guess for the leading carriage was ex-GER; the last I thought was a standard LMS PIII type; the others look LMS below the solebar but not quite right above it.  Like you I await expert opinion.

 

The mineral that was the reason for the original post is an early build without top flaps.  The signalling is quite interesting too - note the trailing crossover in rear of the down home which would raise most of us semi-informed enthusiasts' eyebrows (diagram here).

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6 hours ago, Clem said:

Good morning Andrew.

What a beautiful sunrise this morning! Regarding the window frames: well to be honest I've used 'Glue 'n' Glaze' this time rather than a very small amount of butatone to fix the windows in (my usual method) and whilst I haven't had to (typically) redo a couple of panes due to frosting this time, the white cut edges of the panes do show up more. So, in the course of general weathering of the carriage body, I'll need to pay attention to the window frames in order to mitigate the problem. 

I really like the angle iron trussing on the D246. It gives them a bit of a different look.

 

Another little snippet I've noticed in my perusal of photos of the train consists on the Grantham-Derby line that is that in some cases, the Gresley BT(4)s used have lookout duckets and are therefore do not appear to be part of the numerous lookout-less diagram 65s (used by me as a bit of a stop gap until I build more variation in). Unless some were retro-fitted with lookouts, these carriages appear to be diagram 128. 

 

Afternoon Clem,

 

dull and wet here, though the temperature seems to be rising and the sun is attempting to break through. Have you tried something like Clear on the window edges, I hear it has magical properties.

 

A couple of thoughts occur to me with regard to dia. 246, the grab handles on the van compartments were not made of brass and they were always painted. This would be teak colour and more rarely black in  LNER times and I think black under BR. What have you done with regard to the battery boxes? I notice that a large proportion of the later stock, with angle iron trussing, had the single sided battery box regulator/accumulator box combination. I don't have any information on the retrofitting of ducketts, I think that it would be unlikely. The BT (4) were not very normal in my area and period. There was only one non gangway four set, with 4 compartment brakes, operating a single out and back service, during the weekday timetable. It was Thompson 2X BT (4)  CL (3-4), with a single Gresley seel paneled  T (8). Two thirds of the ordinary passenger trains were gorgeous Gresley gangayed five and three sets.

 

Last word on the BY, I was asked to clarify the top light arrangement on the dia.120 BY. It's a feature not covered in any of the kits. The later diagrams had just plain drop lights, the dia. 120 had rain guards and pivoting/swiveling inset drop lights as shown below.

 

dia 120 drop lights.jpg

Edited by Headstock
clarify a point
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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

Have you tried something like Clear on the window edges, I hear it has magical properties.

 

A couple of thoughts occur to me with regard to dia. 246, the grab handles on the van compartments were not made of brass and they were always painted. This would be teak colour and more rarely black in  LNER times and I think black under BR. What have you done with regard to the battery boxes? I notice that a large proportion of the later stock, with angle iron trussing, had the single sided battery box regulator/accumulator box combination. I don't have any information on the retrofitting of ducketts, I think that it would be unlikely. The BT (4) were not very normal in my area and period. There was only one non gangway four set, with 4 compartment brakes, operating a single out and back service, during the weekday timetable. It was Thompson 2X BT (4)  CL (3-4), with a single Gresley seel paneled  T (8). Two thirds of the ordinary passenger trains were gorgeous Gresley gangayed five and three sets.

Good afternoon Andrew,

Raining here too, now.

 

Klear? Yes, that's exactly what I'm going to do after I finish all of the glazing. I got a supply of Klear in a while ago and I'm looking forward to trying it out. Having said that, I'm not sure it'll cure Covid if you drink it.... not that magical, then.

 

On the whole, for a given model I like to work from photographs, then use the drawing if the photo confirms it. Failing that, no other choice but to consult the drawing. I have quite a few photos of D246s but as law of SOD states, not one which confirms the positioning of battery box/boxes. So, for the D246,  I have to go on the drawing - at least for the moment anyway.

 

For the D210, I managed to get a few photos which pretty well showed me everything about the underframe and yes, it showed that in reality it was quite different from the drawing. For the D210, there only seems to be one set of battery boxes and that is on the composite carriage of the twin. It's situated on the side where the set of three thirds is to the right and the two are to the left.

 

Yep I intend to paint the van section grab handrails faded black as I have with the D210.

 

What you say about the BT(4)s helps confirm my thoughts that those in the pictures I have of the versions with duckets are D128s.

 Here's an illustration on the Pinxton branch at Jacksdale (ex Codnor Park) with one of the last two J5s in charge:

 

65483_001.jpg.f2d623f7dd4699a9e1e18ff48fa049e0.jpg

Edited by Clem
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Clem

 

I use Klear to hold windows in place. You only need a tiny drop of it around the window edges. I use little clamps to make sure it dries where I want it to.. it doesn't fog the glazing.

 

I know the square root of nowt about Gresley suburban stock. Seeing what you have done may now lead me to go and get my old ones out and do a bit of bodging! Excellent work!

 

Baz

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2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

Apropos (fairly) recent references to the Cambridge - Oxford trains, I thought the Wright writes regulars might like to see this photo, captioned "D16/3 62618 heading away from Oxford towards Cambridge, 10/7/52.", which @Metr0Land found for the 16t Mineral thread. It's full of interest but doesn't seem to have spawned much discussion there.  I'm particularly intrigued by the three flush panelled carriages which all seem to have different roof profiles.

 

49219406077_4bae467281_b.jpg62618_Oxford_10-7-52 by robertcwp, on Flickr

Vehicles 2 3 and 4 from the front look like LMS non corridor stock.. the middle one has lost its door vents so may be in Crimson livery.

 

Baz

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3 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

Apropos (fairly) recent references to the Cambridge - Oxford trains, I thought the Wright writes regulars might like to see this photo, captioned "D16/3 62618 heading away from Oxford towards Cambridge, 10/7/52.", which @Metr0Land found for the 16t Mineral thread. It's full of interest but doesn't seem to have spawned much discussion there.  I'm particularly intrigued by the three flush panelled carriages which all seem to have different roof profiles.

 

49219406077_4bae467281_b.jpg62618_Oxford_10-7-52 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

I think the leader is ex-LNWR or WCJS, from the "toplight" period (1913-1922). It looks like a good match for the drawing of the corridor side of a WCJS D24 composite in Jenkinson's LNWR carriage book (2nd edition, p. 88) but there were only two of those built; if it is one of these, a couple of 1sts have been downgraded. It's probably some similar but more numerous diagram.

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62618 in that photo, if I remember correctly, was at one time a 31A "Royal" engine, painted apple green with the early BR emblem. As it has the burnished smokebox ring, and there is lining visible, also the date is 1952, I strongly suspect that the photo shows it in green livery.

 

Stewart

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1 hour ago, Barry O said:

I know the square root of nowt about Gresley suburban stock. Seeing what you have done may now lead me to go and get my old ones out and do a bit of bodging! Excellent work!

You can't beat bodging!

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1 hour ago, Clem said:

Good afternoon Andrew,

Raining here too, now.

 

Klear? Yes, that's exactly what I'm going to do after I finish all of the glazing. I got a supply of Klear in a while ago and I'm looking forward to trying it out. Having said that, I'm not sure it'll cure Covid if you drink it.... not that magical, then.

 

On the whole, for a given model I like to work from photographs, then use the drawing if the photo confirms it. Failing that, no other choice but to consult the drawing. I have quite a few photos of D246s but as law of SOD states, not one which confirms the positioning of battery box/boxes. So, for the D246,  I have to go on the drawing - at least for the moment anyway.

 

For the D210, I managed to get a few photos which pretty well showed me everything about the underframe and yes, it showed that in reality it was quite different from the drawing. For the D210, there only seems to be one set of battery boxes and that is on the composite carriage of the twin. It's situated on the side where the set of three thirds is to the right and the two are to the left.

 

Yep I intend to paint the van section grab handrails faded black as I have with the D210.

 

What you say about the BT(4)s helps confirm my thoughts that those in the pictures I have of the versions with duckets are D128s.

 Here's an illustration on the Pinxton branch at Jacksdale (ex Codnor Park) with one of the last two J5s in charge:

 

 

 

I like J5's, faster than an A4...................in reverse.

 

Wa d y finks on tufer en 'd train?

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10 hours ago, dibateg said:

Nice work Clem - 

I did these ones in 7mm a few years ago, I shall have to find them, they haven't been out of the box a for a few years, so I should do some new photos. Kirk bodies, Newbold underframes and JLTRT bogies. Can't remember the diagrams off the top of my head... Here they are on Heyside, I wonder if I tidied up where I took that number off on the brake section?

P1010396.JPG.ef83ebd41218aa648514655858064135.JPG

 

IMG_1946.jpg.70af6f6d3b33b40273716ddde209893a.jpg

 

Interesting discussion on gearboxes, I prefer to avoid making them if possible, but would do if there was a difficult fit. They can be tricky to get working properly. I used to make up the DJH ones in 4mm scale and have done a couple of High Levels I've only made up one in 7mm scale and there are some nice ones available from MSC with a milled brass gearbox. Those are my unit of choice. Of course you can buy a whole loco for the cost of one in 4mm.

IMG_4566.JPG.615dcb11a8c8e86cfb430e223f4df118.JPG

Tony,

 

What do those 7mm gearboxes cost, please?

 

They look superbly-engineered.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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7 hours ago, Clem said:

Good afternoon Andrew,

Raining here too, now.

 

Klear? Yes, that's exactly what I'm going to do after I finish all of the glazing. I got a supply of Klear in a while ago and I'm looking forward to trying it out. Having said that, I'm not sure it'll cure Covid if you drink it.... not that magical, then.

 

On the whole, for a given model I like to work from photographs, then use the drawing if the photo confirms it. Failing that, no other choice but to consult the drawing. I have quite a few photos of D246s but as law of SOD states, not one which confirms the positioning of battery box/boxes. So, for the D246,  I have to go on the drawing - at least for the moment anyway.

 

For the D210, I managed to get a few photos which pretty well showed me everything about the underframe and yes, it showed that in reality it was quite different from the drawing. For the D210, there only seems to be one set of battery boxes and that is on the composite carriage of the twin. It's situated on the side where the set of three thirds is to the right and the two are to the left.

 

Yep I intend to paint the van section grab handrails faded black as I have with the D210.

 

What you say about the BT(4)s helps confirm my thoughts that those in the pictures I have of the versions with duckets are D128s.

 Here's an illustration on the Pinxton branch at Jacksdale (ex Codnor Park) with one of the last two J5s in charge:

 

65483_001.jpg.f2d623f7dd4699a9e1e18ff48fa049e0.jpg

That’s a fascinating photo with some lovely stock. Is that a D.322 as coaches 2 and 3? if so, I think that’s the first photo I’ve seen of one - there were only two twins. And what’s on the rear?

 

 

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44 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

That’s a fascinating photo with some lovely stock. Is that a D.322 as coaches 2 and 3? if so, I think that’s the first photo I’ve seen of one - there were only two twins. And what’s on the rear?

 

 

 

Evening Andy,

 

the formation is as the CWN's as late as 54, Twin BT (6)- CL (4-3) BT (4) and attach BZ Nott Vic, zip to Pinxton, return to Nott Vic, detach BZ.

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1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

Hi Tony,

It looks like £132 - £140 plus postage, depending on gear ratio:

http://www.mscmodels.co.uk/motor-gearboxes

Ouch.

 

HTH

Brian

Thanks Brian,

 

I'm not sure about 'ouch'. If the motor/gearbox performs beautifully (and Tony Geary wouldn't use them if they didn't), then that's the price one pays. 

 

Never having used one as shown by Tony, I cannot comment from personal experience. Regarding the few O Gauge locos I've built (the largest a BR Standard Five and a Stanier Five), I used a Slater's gearbox (ready-made) and the biggish Mashima motor prescribed. Both worked very well. What those units cost, I have no idea. 

 

I wonder what an RG7 goes for these days?

 

I think it's clear from all the recent correspondence on drives that it's a case of 'you pays your money and you takes your choice' (is that the right phrase?). It's clear that there are some incredibly good value combinations out there (especially internet-sourced motors), as there are some very expensive ones. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Tony,

 

What do those 7mm gearboxes cost, please?

 

They look superbly-engineered.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

MSC are very good. Ron Chaplin used to make boxes milled from solid but I don't know who inherited his range.  ABC are very good and also do amarvellous traction motor set up that you cann use to build your own motor bogies. I'll try and show a photo of mine.  Slaters 0 guage motor/gerboxes go for around  £112 and Portescaps now go for about the same secondhand.

 

Jamie

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9 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

That’s a fascinating photo with some lovely stock. Is that a D.322 as coaches 2 and 3? if so, I think that’s the first photo I’ve seen of one - there were only two twins. And what’s on the rear?

It certainly looks like a D322. I'm not surprised. There was a fantastic variety of stock on the East Mids GN lines in the early 50s. Another example (which I may have posted posted before) is an A5 with a D192/3 coupled with a D310, whilst in the right hand siding a D210. The train has just passed Basford North carriage sidings. Most twins were classed as a single type - i.e. D322, D210, D310 but for some reason the D192/3 was split, the D192 being the BT(5) and the D193 being the CL(3/4) - I'm not sure why? I like this photo a lot. Three twins for the price of one! It's a shame I haven't a copy of it in better quality. The photo was taken by A G Cramp on September 11th 1955.

 

69810_004_rdcd.jpg.9732ab451a84630433e6499929b21078.jpg

 

Edited by Clem
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9 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I admit, it's a bit of a bodge, but it still runs well. Built in 1983, it shows my 'standards' at the time (and I still can't always disguise drives!); also my painting standards, which is why I now use professionals, and have done for many years. 

 

I'm just going to see how well she runs on Little Bytham.....................

 

Well it looks good to me!

 

I think it’s very satisfying when something like that is brought back to life.

 

Jon

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1 hour ago, Clem said:

It certainly looks like a D322. I'm not surprised. There was a fantastic variety of stock on the East Mids GN lines in the early 50s. Another example (which I may have posted posted before) is an A5 with a D192/3 coupled with a D310, whilst in the right hand siding a D210. The train has just passed Basford North carriage sidings. Most twins were classed as a single type - i.e. D322, D210, D310 but for some reason the D192/3 was split, the D192 being the BT(5) and the D193 being the CL(3/4) - I'm not sure why? I like this photo a lot. Three twins for the price of one! It's a shame I haven't a copy of it in better quality. The photo was taken by A G Cramp on September 11th 1955.

 

69810_004_rdcd.jpg.9732ab451a84630433e6499929b21078.jpg

 

Thanks Clem,

 

That's a wonderful photo which really has me drooling. I'm even thinking that I should have chosen to model the East Mids (but don't tell Andrew - Headstock!). My understanding is that many of these twins (certainly some D.210s and D.192/3s) were active out of King's Cross until the outer suburban mark 1s arrived in 1955/6 and a few survived thereafter. However my evidence base for this is quite limited as photos of the 'less sexy' stuff are few and far between.

 

Andy

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1 minute ago, thegreenhowards said:

That's a wonderful photo which really has me drooling. I'm even thinking that I should have chosen to model the East Mids (but don't tell Andrew - Headstock!). My understanding is that many of these twins (certainly some D.210s and D.192/3s) were active out of King's Cross until the outer suburban mark 1s arrived in 1955/6 and a few survived thereafter. However my evidence base for this is quite limited as photos of the 'less sexy' stuff are few and far between.

Just a short addendum to the photo: When I was about 4-5 years old - probably roughly about the time of the photo - my brother took me there. In the background, behind and just to the right of the GC overbridge, there was a area of land where you could pretty well see the whole layout. It's a vivid memory for me. I remember 60102 Sir Fred Banbury rush by on an up express and, unusually for then, an L1 on the spur on a down Derby or Pinxton train. However, although it was well safe away from the railway, I think we were on railway property and a bloke appeared out of nowhere and chucked us off. I'd have loved to have stayed there for several hours! These little memories make us into the enthusiasts we are!

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Can I change the subject completely and ask people on here how they record their rolling stock fleets? I am just renewing my annual model railway insurance and have been trying to work out what I have - a job that I've been meaning to do for several years!

 

I decided to create a spreadsheet in excel with separate sheets for coaches, wagons and locos. An extract for my West Riding set is shown below. I also have columns for cost and value which I've hidden as I didn't want to be vulgar with money. I can then use the excel sort functions to see how many of each type of coach I have etc. It also reminds me of the correct order for the train. I have photographed each item of rolling stock as I've recorded it, and these photos are in a file structure with one folder for each service. There will also be some loose stock for making up all the less distinctive services.

 

I'm about 1/4 of the way through and one thing I've noticed is that I have several duplicate numbers which I thought I'd eliminated - more work!

 

Do other people do something similar? Are there any good tips for other things I should be recording as I go through the fleet? I did search elsewhere on RMWeb, but apart from a learned discussion on database packages which is far too advanced/ expensive for me, I didn't find anything.image.png.2444a57b75d599a2be693d3b60b8c366.png

 

 

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