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Having operated a 4mm layout at a good few exhibitions where changing lamps was the norm, the Sunday evening clear up was always "interesting".

 

The final visual sweep off the floor after everything was boxed up and packed away, always found half a dozen loco & tail lamps that nobody noticed had made bids for freedom.

 

P

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2 hours ago, SP Steve said:

Sorry for taking up room on your thread Tony but as it's LNER then I hope I'm excused!

 

Having earlier posted re: making up the height deficiency for a Chivers D120 brake van, here's the side after having the window details re-instated. I've made an attempt to depict one or two of the pivoted top lights being open - I think these were only found on the D120 versions, the later types having fixed non-opening windows instead.

 

20200915_105854.jpg.1629aa4f9b99e277a6fd6b4a63a11869.jpg

 

20200915_105941.jpg.9e9f3cb64c2423f173999c940de9b77f.jpg

Never apologise for putting excellent modelling on this thread, Steve,

 

It's what it should be all about.

 

Many thanks for showing us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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39 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Steven

 

As a 00 modeller with poor hand and eye coordination the thought of changing lamps as Tony Gee does on Buckingham would result in a pile of lamps sitting in the four foot. I too am contemplating fixed lamps both ends of my trains as I have a terminus station. Also fixed lamps on my locos, most will have express passenger, ordinary passenger or ECS/parcels headcodes. The coal train and diesel trip workings to the loco siding would have the appropriate headcodes for such workings. I also plan to have a couple with shunting headcodes which will act as the station pilots. Most locos will have a light engine lamp on the tender rear for moving to and from the station and loco sidings. Some tank locos will have lamps both ends as these are not always turned. All I hope is the lamps on the front coach and the rear of the loco will not show up too much.

 

Diesel locos and DMUs with roller blinds will have appropriate codes either end which means they will have to placed in the fiddle yard the right way round so 1M27 is not the arrival code but 1E05 is.

 

Now comes the problem of DMUs and tail lamps, which they would carry in my time period. Do I have one on each end which will look daft dangling on the front or do I not have any, which is equally as bad?

Good afternoon Clive,

 

My take on lamps in the situations just described is this.............

 

Have a fixed tail lamp on both ends of rakes where they terminate/change direction. Hard-up against the back of a tender, a tank's bunker or smokebox, or the nose of a diesel, they'll not be that obvious.

 

As for DMUs, don't have a tail lamp. I have one on Bytham's unit, but it only travels one way.

 

An interesting question, if I may? I've seen photographs of diesels carrying headlamps and/or displaying discs, or none at all. Where diesels have indicator boxes, they don't seem to carry lamps/show discs - unless the 'blinds' don't show the correct code. How common was the practice of diesels displaying 'steam-age' lamps? In the green period? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. In every picture of the prototype Deltic I've seen, it carries lamps, yet on the production Deltics they're very rare. 

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21 hours ago, micklner said:

 I am lucky, if i get two or even less out of ten successful attempts,  without the handle falling/snapping  off !! .

About the best thing that can happen to them in my view. I routinely brake off the handles of all cast w/m lamps I've ever used - they are vastly over scale and one of the main things that contributes to model lamps looking like milk churns on the front of locos. On the vast majority of prototype photos one's eye doesn't 'see' the handle. (A cue no doubt for Tony to load up 10 photos where the handle is very obvious!)

 

I must give a mention by exception to the ModelU lamps because there, due to the 3D printing method, the handles are to scale - and survive a certain amount of rough handling due to their flexibility. I have been using them in increasing numbers for Shap and they are excellent - a case of getting what you pay for, methinks.

 

I'm happy to use lamps but only if they 'blend in' and don't visually overpower the front of the loco.

Edited by LNER4479
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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Clive,

 

My take on lamps in the situations just described is this.............

 

Have a fixed tail lamp on both ends of rakes where they terminate/change direction. Hard-up against the back of a tender, a tank's bunker or smokebox, or the nose of a diesel, they'll not be that obvious.

 

As for DMUs, don't have a tail lamp. I have one on Bytham's unit, but it only travels one way.

 

An interesting question, if I may? I've seen photographs of diesels carrying headlamps and/or displaying discs, or none at all. Where diesels have indicator boxes, they don't seem to carry lamps/show discs - unless the 'blinds' don't show the correct code. How common was the practice of diesels displaying 'steam-age' lamps? In the green period? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. In every picture of the prototype Deltic I've seen, it carries lamps, yet on the production Deltics they're very rare. 

Thank you Tony,

 

With regard to lamps on diesels, the prototype Deltic only had steam lamp irons hence the need for it to carry lamps. Early build diesels had the fold up disc which replaced the need for lamps. The four figure roller blinds were for displaying the class of train, first digit. 1 to 9 and 0 replacing the ABC classifications. The letter in the second blind was the destination region, or district for trains staying within region, and sometimes with certain areas a T would be a trip working. The ECML differed again as A was for trains traversing the whole line, with F for specials.

 

Figures 3 and 4 would be the train reporting number for most expresses, and freight trains. For class 2 (old class B) passenger trains it normally the route but on some routes it was the train reporting number. Confused? I think BR staff were.

 

DMUs with two figure roller blinds things were even more confusing. On the ER the number was for the class of train and the letter for the district. On the LMR and ER the letter came first and it was the old train classification, B for ordinary passenger etc and the number was the route. I am not sure what the WR did. The ScR had a very complicated system for two figure headcodes depending on the route. The SR two number system was for the route. Freight on the SR used a combination of letters and numbers and without a WWT for the period modelled is quite hard to describe. 

 

Shunters had four electric lamps in the same positions as steam loco lamp irons, the also had lamp irons. If out on the mainline in daylight lamps seemed to be commonly used to show what type of train they were moving around. The SR had six lamps and irons to indicate where they were going if allowed on the mainline. The three SR 1Co-Co1 locos had six fold up disc. The class 24s on loan to the SR and two additional lamp irons to which in daylight steam loco disc would be hung on to show where they were off to and at night lamps would be used.

 

Photographs indicate the ScR and NER had a habit of adding lamps to express locos even if the blind looks operative. I don't know why.

 

The lamp irons on diesels were mainly used in loco depots, the loco furthest away from the buffer stops in a row of locos would have a red tail lamp fitted so at night it indicated where the limit of siding space was for the next loco joining the line up. The lamp would be moved on to the far end of the new addition to the queue.

 

Small changes would be made most years to add to the confusion. Then in 1969 there was a big shake up in the train classification and York HQ's annexation of the former ER for district codes in the both the ER and NER . Then in 1976 they stopped using them.

 

This is a very brief summary of diesel and electric headcodes. I find it easier to help someone to get a representation of the headcodes for the area or line they are modelling rather than confuse people with all the variations.

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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4 hours ago, Headstock said:

your reworking of the drop lights looks most convincing. One thing that you may wish to consider, the rain guards above the pivoting drop lights were three strips, not a single one. Filing a slot between each light should sort that out, it may be something that you are intending to do.

 

I think that in common with a lot of other details concerning these vehicles, there were variants.

 

Images of E70232E & E70240E (1929 Stratford) along with E70241E (1929 York) show the three separate rain covers, one per window whereas E70212 / E70213 & E70217E (1928 Stratford) all appear to have had a single long rain cover.

 

Whether those with the single cover had originally been fitted with three I'm not sure but I'm intending this to be E70217E, so single strip it is.

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40 minutes ago, SP Steve said:

 

I think that in common with a lot of other details concerning these vehicles, there were variants.

 

Images of E70232E & E70240E (1929 Stratford) along with E70241E (1929 York) show the three separate rain covers, one per window whereas E70212 / E70213 & E70217E (1928 Stratford) all appear to have had a single long rain cover.

 

Whether those with the single cover had originally been fitted with three I'm not sure but I'm intending this to be E70217E, so single strip it is.

 

Thanks S P Steve,

 

do you have any photographs, or at least point me to some, is there anything pre 1955, or pre War? How are you glazing the pivoting droplights, without the glazing being set too far back?

Edited by Headstock
S P Steve not Steve P
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2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

About the best thing that can happen to them in my view. I routinely brake off the handles of all cast w/m lamps I've ever used - they are vastly over scale and one of the main things that contributes to model lamps looking like milk churns on the front of locos. On the vast majority of prototype photos one's eye doesn't 'see' the handle. (A cue no doubt for Tony to load up 10 photos where the handle is very obvious!)

 

I must give a mention by exception to the ModelU lamps because there, due to the 3D printing method, the handles are to scale - and survive a certain amount of rough handling due to their flexibility. I have been using them in increasing numbers for Shap and they are excellent - a case of getting what you pay for, methinks.

 

I'm happy to use lamps but only if they 'blend in' and don't visually overpower the front of the loco.

I agree about breaking the handles off many of the (over-scale) lamps, Graham,

 

Which brings me to the question - over-scale lamps, or no lamps at all? The jury's probably out on this one..................

 

422970724_lamps03.jpg.ea494e1333542de0c298dd7813e5bae8.jpg

 

Certainly, if a lamp is brand new, then it's quite prominent; even its handle. 

 

2046887598_lamps01.jpg.b1cadf5bd338ecd270c6ce93f989dca9.jpg

 

What about black lamps (ex-LMS?)? In model form, at more than three feet, these would be all but invisible. 

 

882749809_lamps02.jpg.3fa2f2698c66f50cb1c816dc0a10a6f4.jpg

 

How many different styles of lamp were there? And, the one to the right (as we observe the picture) is higher up on its bracket. 

 

75233636_lamps04.jpg.0166d4d6beaa6789f39b5e9699973057.jpg

 

Handles visible here, but on a model?

 

112273317_lamps05.jpg.cc09dec3bacaeb181c838630b26b58c7.jpg

 

And here.............

 

For those who want to run express trains (note the lamp code), but don't have much space, here's the answer; leaving Grantham as well. 

 

And on to model lamps (not just handles)....................

 

1201819495_60116onDownQueenofScots.jpg.5a14ec8809248573d273fdb5d6ee034d.jpg

 

Aren't these giant ones? They're Springside BR lamps (4mm, though that's 'stretching' a point) and they're real 'milk churns'.

 

Do I still have any? 

 

1247313302_60116onNorthumbrian.jpg.a12ac1f7d784fb978ae00bea0f0bee25.jpg

 

Definitely not! The same loco, now with (I think) LMS (not the railway) lamps. Far, far better!

 

618677028_B1636144901.jpg.0dd01770bf72d5781d57ee7db673b308.jpg

 

Our mutual friend, Graeme King gave me some of his resin-cast lamps (without handles). I think they're excellent, and a doddle to drill (though the one to the left needs a deeper hole). 

 

1589359890_600140nDownexpress.jpg.0042e6c6088c917b29af43fbb9efc20b.jpg

 

I acquired some very similar white metal lamps years ago. These, too, had no handles, but they look all right to me. Who made them, I have no idea.

 

629804944_K361812.jpg.218379839f689163c411e8eef91417e1.jpg

 

Some other white metal (handle-less) lamps came from the estate of a deceased modeller. A bit chunky! 

 

Food for thought?

 

On an unrelated issue, I'm afraid that 'sticky' signal motor has expired. Not even Andrew's magic gadgets seemed to have saved it. When you come down to look at photographs, perhaps some time squirming underneath LB? I have two spare motors. 

 

I think, at best, it'll be a temporary 'fix'. Despite all your wonderful best-efforts, those Viessman point motors are not suitable for Little Bytham. As you know, I insist on as near perfect running/operation as possible, including fully-working signals. The signals are beautiful (thanks to you and Mick Nic'), but the operating motors are duds! What's that - 13 out of nine failures? Over 100% failure rate in just a few years. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

An interesting question, if I may? I've seen photographs of diesels carrying headlamps and/or displaying discs, or none at all. Where diesels have indicator boxes, they don't seem to carry lamps/show discs - unless the 'blinds' don't show the correct code. How common was the practice of diesels displaying 'steam-age' lamps? In the green period? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. In every picture of the prototype Deltic I've seen, it carries lamps, yet on the production Deltics they're very rare. 

 

With reference to DMUs, here's an excerpt from the  York 1960 General Appendix:

 

INSTRUCTIONS FOR WORKING MULTIPLE-UNIT MECHANICAL DIESEL TRAINS

 

HEAD AND TAIL LIGHTS AND DESTINATION INDICATORS

 

6.            The destination indicator, where provided, must be operated so as to show the correct destination both at the front and rear of the train. The train classification/route indicator or headlamps, as the case may be, must be set to show the class of train and/or route at the front end only, the rear indicator showing blank. The destination and classification route indicators must be illuminated after sunset or during fog or falling snow only.

                The driver is responsible for ensuring, at any turning around point, that the train classification/route indicator is suitably blanked out and the light extinguished before he proceeds to the other end of the train.

                Where a train classification or route indicator is not provided the following instructions apply:-

During daylight and clear weather, the destination indicator must be regarded as the head-code.

After sunset, during fog or falling snow, or when passing through tunnels, the top electric headlamp must be switched on by the driver.

The lower headlamps will not be used.

These arrangements to apply whether the train conveys passengers or is empty.

                An oil tail lamp must be carried on the rearmost vehicle and a spare oil tail lamp, properly trimmed, must be carried in the Guard's brake to enable the provision of Rule 204 to be complied with.

 

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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

Do you have any photographs, or at least point me to some, is there anything pre 1955, or pre War? How are you glazing the pivoting droplights, without the glazing being set too far back?

 

Unfortunately all of my references depict vehicles post 1955 so am not aware of the protocols before then.

 

With regards to the glazing I will be using 0.5mm acrylic sheet held in place with Testors Clear Parts Cement & Window Maker adhesive. The acrylic is easy(?!) to score and snap into correct sized panes whilst the adhesive is water based and does not fog / yellow.

 

However before this point is reached I will need to replicate the other side, remake the ends to accommodate the increased height of the sides and then assemble everything together (in other words some time off yet!).

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I agree that tai; lamps for dmus is a difficult one, if they reverse, as is the driver in the cab!. However, the method I am adopting for loco hauled coaches is as follows.

 

Assume the train traverses the layout from left to right, so the loco leading is on the rh end.  The rear coach, at the lh end, needs a tail lamp, so I put the lamp on the far side, (the left side if looking at the rear of the train).

Why you might ask.

Well, when the train reverses and comes from right to left, the coach that was at the rear is now at the front, with the loco, obviously, in front of it. That tail lamp is still there, but mostly hidden by the loco.

Hard to explain but very simple really.

Same thing applies at the rh end of the train of course, the lamp is put on the far side again (and stays there when the train reverses) but in this case the rh side when looking at the rear.

 

Stewart

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Re lamps.

 

Perhaps it's the railwayman in me, my grandfather having been a signalman and I was a guard for a while, and trains without tail lamps on the rear, or with tail lamps in the wrong place on the train are anathema to me.

 

My layout is a terminus, and as well as pulling trains in and then later taking them out again, the locos sometimes work out with a different class of train, or run light engine to the shed.  Hence I have head and tail lamps that I change with tweezers whenever a train terminates.  These are Springside ones; I don't think I could drill out any that are smaller.  They are slightly on the large side, but some of the paint soon gets knocked off in being handled with the tweezers.  I do lose quiet a few!  On rolling stock which doesn't have lamp irons that can be used, I often make them from offcuts of small office staples.  The only exception is goods trains, where I couldn't face changing the side lamps as well as the tail lamps, so the 'hand of God' turns the whole brake van round.  The 'hand of God' has to uncouple the shunting engine, anyway!

 

On diesel locos and DMUs I can't stand the great bright red lights lit up next to the coaches, so I always 'disable' them in some way, and the DMUs, and diesel locos running light, carry oil tail lamps as was usually the case in the 1950s/60s anyway.  I haven't worked out a way of changing the diesel's disc headcodes while they're in traffic yet, nor of hiding round the 4-caharacter headcode blinds.  I also 'disable' cab lights - nobody would drive a loco with the cab lights on.

 

As to photos which show diesel locos carrying steam loco style headlamps, it might not be apparent from a photo whether the 4-character headcode display is defective; it might not be a case of broken blinds or glass, but just that the lights inside it don't work.  As the headcode display was the only kind of head end illumination on diesel locos, if it didn't work, steam loco headlamps would have to be substituted to provide forward marker lights.  And diesels running light would often carry an oil tail lamp, anyway.

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I agree about breaking the handles off many of the (over-scale) lamps, Graham,

 

Which brings me to the question - over-scale lamps, or no lamps at all? The jury's probably out on this one..................

 

422970724_lamps03.jpg.ea494e1333542de0c298dd7813e5bae8.jpg

 

Certainly, if a lamp is brand new, then it's quite prominent; even its handle. 

 

2046887598_lamps01.jpg.b1cadf5bd338ecd270c6ce93f989dca9.jpg

 

What about black lamps (ex-LMS?)? In model form, at more than three feet, these would be all but invisible. 

 

882749809_lamps02.jpg.3fa2f2698c66f50cb1c816dc0a10a6f4.jpg

 

How many different styles of lamp were there? And, the one to the right (as we observe the picture) is higher up on its bracket. 

 

75233636_lamps04.jpg.0166d4d6beaa6789f39b5e9699973057.jpg

 

Handles visible here, but on a model?

 

112273317_lamps05.jpg.cc09dec3bacaeb181c838630b26b58c7.jpg

 

And here.............

 

For those who want to run express trains (note the lamp code), but don't have much space, here's the answer; leaving Grantham as well. 

 

And on to model lamps (not just handles)....................

 

1201819495_60116onDownQueenofScots.jpg.5a14ec8809248573d273fdb5d6ee034d.jpg

 

Aren't these giant ones? They're Springside BR lamps (4mm, though that's 'stretching' a point) and they're real 'milk churns'.

 

Do I still have any? 

 

1247313302_60116onNorthumbrian.jpg.a12ac1f7d784fb978ae00bea0f0bee25.jpg

 

Definitely not! The same loco, now with (I think) LMS (not the railway) lamps. Far, far better!

 

618677028_B1636144901.jpg.0dd01770bf72d5781d57ee7db673b308.jpg

 

Our mutual friend, Graeme King gave me some of his resin-cast lamps (without handles). I think they're excellent, and a doddle to drill (though the one to the left needs a deeper hole). 

 

1589359890_600140nDownexpress.jpg.0042e6c6088c917b29af43fbb9efc20b.jpg

 

I acquired some very similar white metal lamps years ago. These, too, had no handles, but they look all right to me. Who made them, I have no idea.

 

629804944_K361812.jpg.218379839f689163c411e8eef91417e1.jpg

 

Some other white metal (handle-less) lamps came from the estate of a deceased modeller. A bit chunky! 

 

Food for thought?

 

On an unrelated issue, I'm afraid that 'sticky' signal motor has expired. Not even Andrew's magic gadgets seemed to have saved it. When you come down to look at photographs, perhaps some time squirming underneath LB? I have two spare motors. 

 

I think, at best, it'll be a temporary 'fix'. Despite all your wonderful best-efforts, those Viessman point motors are not suitable for Little Bytham. As you know, I insist on as near perfect running/operation as possible, including fully-working signals. The signals are beautiful (thanks to you and Mick Nic'), but the operating motors are duds! What's that - 13 out of nine failures? Over 100% failure rate in just a few years. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Tony, some of those larger model lamps look like they would scale up to the size of a washing machine. That ain't a light lens, that's a door for washing.

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On 13/09/2020 at 20:01, Woodcock29 said:

Hi Theakerr

Whilst there was a Bachmann J11 standing either in the the loco yard or on a train in the storage sidings on Spirsby, mainly as a back up loco, its not really visible in any of the photos I posted so its curious that you think you saw it?  The only 0-6-0 seen clearly in any of the photos is a kit bashed J3 which of course doesn't have a visible vacuum ejector pipe as its under the boiler cladding. Anyway the J11 does have vacuum ejector pipe above the handrail on the right hand side.

Andrew

Woodcock29,  My mistake, that J3 looks to me just like a J11. 

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On 14/09/2020 at 17:43, Tony Wright said:

Unfortunately I don't Archie. However, I have a good memory.

 

All my hand-written 'spotter's notebooks (thankfully not my Ian Allan's) were chucked out by my mother when I went to teacher training college in 1967. She must have thought I'd grown up!

 

How wrong.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Unfortunately my notes disappeared during a parental house move around the time I got married. 

I too can remember a lot of my spotting trips and a few photos have survived over the years. 

One particular trip was to Rugby at the time of the 'Austin Fortnight' in 1960. Many of the main expresses were going over to EE Type 4 diesels, also the original Peaks were working on the WCML and some locals had Derby Sulzers. Despite the diesels a lot of reliefs were running and we saw 12 Stanier Pacifics and a number of Brits. We rode home behind 'Private E Sykes' on a stopper to Birmingham, logging nearly 200 locos in one day.

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1 hour ago, SP Steve said:

 

Unfortunately all of my references depict vehicles post 1955 so am not aware of the protocols before then.

 

With regards to the glazing I will be using 0.5mm acrylic sheet held in place with Testors Clear Parts Cement & Window Maker adhesive. The acrylic is easy(?!) to score and snap into correct sized panes whilst the adhesive is water based and does not fog / yellow.

 

However before this point is reached I will need to replicate the other side, remake the ends to accommodate the increased height of the sides and then assemble everything together (in other words some time off yet!).

 

Evening S P Steve,

 

Some years back Steve Banks sent me an unpublished article on these vans. His writings about them can stir up quite a controversy. However, what couldn't be denied, is that the article was lavishly illustrated, with photographs depicting the far end of every coneratation, that you could imagine across the vans careers. Unfortunately, I lost the article and the pictures in a hard drive failure, it being one of two documents that at the time were not backed up. Not being that interested in the little beasts until this past month or so, I never pursued a replacement. I still have no intention of building one but there is no harm in pursuing a bit of information. Given their rather chequered history as kits, it's quite interesting to see modeling that moves beyond some of the rough approximations of the past.

Edited by Headstock
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19 minutes ago, MJI said:

1201819495_60116onDownQueenofScots.jpg.5a14ec8809248573d273fdb5d6ee034d.jpg

 

Aren't these giant ones? They're Springside BR lamps (4mm, though that's 'stretching' a point) and they're real 'milk churns'.

I have a few locos with Springside lamps and they are waiting to get new ones. They look vastly over-size, being only marginally more acceptable painted as LMS black ones that were common in our parish up to the early 1960s.

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Springside head lumps can be improved by removing the integral carrying handle and replacing it with wire but in the current era why bother, when there's the vastly improved lamps available from Mr Franks and ModelU.

 

ProjectWorkingTail-Lmp07copySM.jpg.c792228206d2597a5ca4d715cbf19719.jpg

A Springside lamp of yesteryear.

 

P

Edited by Porcy Mane
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On 14/09/2020 at 12:26, Clive Mortimore said:

What I do try to represent is the types of locomotives and DMUs that would have operated over the former L&YR lines crossing from one side of the Pennines to the other and the types that were at home on the GNR lines. I know I have made believe there are services to and from Grimbsy and Cleethorpes, and I don't have any GCR types but they do have LNER designed locos when steam is the order of the day. I also add a few North Eastern Region locos into the mix on the York and Leeds trains but B16s did tend to wander about a tad.

 

Sometimes the devil takes over and all of a sudden Exchange has imaginary OLE and 3rd rail or even Western Region diesels. Where is the fun in adhering to self imposed strict rules.  

My locos are the types, and where possible actual numbers allocated around or seen working through the area of my ficticious layout in the period 1956-61. It is set in the West Midlands in a bit that was ringed and crossed by various LNWR and GWR lines and based on a 'might have been' had some proposals come to fruition and other falling out of owners not taken place. 

The proximity of Wolverhampton Works meant foreign locos passing through en route and ex-works locos being snaffled by Oxley or Stafford Road on the pretext of running-in turns, such as a 97xx Condenser on the Swan Village trip or a 15xx in a Wolverhampton - Worcester - Stratford upon Avon diagram.

Dudley Zoo specials also produced a variety of locos including B1s and Brush type 2s coming in from the Eastern Region.

The more mundane produced out-of-the-ordinary sights such as a Jubilee working special coal train from the Walsall area to Hartlebury for Stourport Power Station or a Holbeck Royal Scot on ECS from a Troop Train. One GWR branch normally populated only by a 57xx on the Withymoor trip and a flying banana or 64xx and auto coach got cleared as a Dotted Red route because it linked two other lines to form an alternative route between Snow Hill and Wolverhampton. This meant that it sometimes had Castles on Class A trains when the main route was closed for engineering work. 

The 'Devil' factor comes into play when at the weekend I run a Footex for the FA Cup, Bulleid and Maunsell stock hauled by a Spamcam, or a 'CrankEx'  hauled by a T9, diesel 10001, LNWR Coal Tank, double headed Pannier Tank and Fowler 4F or a pair of Super Ds. 

Oh, and just for good measure Palethorpes loading dock is being included, and a few 'personal' items, 4565 which I rode behind on the Newquay Chacewater train actually got to Wolverhampton Works, 90033 my first WD sighting will haul the Bilston Iron Ore and 46146 will sneak in somewhere because both my father and grandfather were Riflemen.

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While we are on the subject of lamps, I'm currently modelling the train in the photo (copyright Stephen McGahon) below.  I assume that the last 16T wagon in the train would be carrying a tail lamp (not sure if this matters, but this is May 1982 on the Tyne Dock to Consett line) but, as 16T wagons were not fitted with lamp irons, how would the lamp be attached?

 

South-Pelaw-26-4-82-37062.jpg

 

John

 

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1 minute ago, johndon said:

While we are on the subject of lamps, I'm currently modelling the train in the photo (copyright Stephen McGahon) below.  I assume that the last 16T wagon in the train would be carrying a tail lamp (not sure if this matters, but this is May 1982 on the Tyne Dock to Consett line) but, as 16T wagons were not fitted with lamp irons, how would the lamp be attached?

 

South-Pelaw-26-4-82-37062.jpg

 

John

 

 

It must be a fully fitted train as it has no brake van; vacuum brake fitted wagons were fitted with lamp irons for that reason, so the last wagon would have a tail lamp on its lamp iron.

 

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1 minute ago, 31A said:

 

It must be a fully fitted train as it has no brake van; vacuum brake fitted wagons were fitted with lamp irons for that reason, so the last wagon would have a tail lamp on its lamp iron.

 

 

Thanks for that, you learn something new everyday.  Time for a good look at Mr Bartletts site...

 

John

 

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4 minutes ago, johndon said:

, as 16T wagons were not fitted with lamp irons, how would the lamp be attached?

 

South-Pelaw-26-4-82-37062.jpg

 

John

 


I have seen a couple of images where the lamp was hung on the hook of the screw/instanter coupling. I suspect it was very unusual, a caption noted it as such. 

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17 minutes ago, PMP said:


I have seen a couple of images where the lamp was hung on the hook of the screw/instanter coupling. I suspect it was very unusual, a caption noted it as such. 

The handle on a tail lamp was designed to be hung from a coupling hook. There were certain places where it was permitted to move wagons without a brake van e.g. between sidings at opposite ends of stations. These were listed in the Sectional Appendix. A tail lamp had to be carried on the last vehicle.

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