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Tony Wright

Wright writes.....

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1 hour ago, FarrMan said:

Re the boiler strap, looking at the photos in Russell, The boiler strap is definitely proud, but you should not be able to see light between in and the boiler! It also looks too chunky to me, but I do not have any dimensions for it.

That 'boiler strap' does not appear to be a boiler strap at all. Looking at

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html

 

about a third of the way down, there is a photo of 5120 which shows it quite clearly to be a substantial strap in line with the fronts of the side tanks. It looks clearly to be rectangular cross section. Would it be to hold the front of the tanks in place? Scaling off the copy of the official diagram in Russell, the width of the strap should be app 6" (2mm) but the thickness is too small to measure, certainly no more than 1" and probably more like 0.5".

 

Lloyd

 

 

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5 hours ago, PMP said:


As per @Richard Eref the livery queries. The boiler strap should be flush. Was it the whole roof that came off or just the sliding vent? The BR version I’ve got has been superb, there’s a few notes on them here that may help when looking at the GW livery Hornby-61xx-r3723-review/

Many thanks, Paul,

 

The whole roof came off. It's now glued back in place.

 

Both look good and both run superbly.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Many thanks for all the comments on the pair of Prairies. 

 

Though I have sources (Russell/Irwell/Ian Allan/RCTS and others), my knowledge has expanded considerably. 

 

I should be able now to write a more-informed review. 

 

Thanks again to you all.......

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11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

The whole roof came off. It's now glued back in place.

 

 

The good thing about that happening is it's easy to add the crew then. Glad to see BRM are doing a review as I'd thought they'd forgot about the release and I'll be interested in your candid views Tony.

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I would still like a late 80s 61xx.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've just started taking pictures of Hornby's latest large Prairie.................

 

511642874_Hornby61XX6110R372101.jpg.661318001b37bfc218eca7a6e5cd331e.jpg

 

Not having conducted any research yet (and in a plea for assistance), is this a post-War manifestation? Or pre-War? 

 

I took this one out of its box, and the roof promptly fell off! A friend's just bought one, and a driving wheel fell off his!!!!!

 

2004279026_Hornby51XX4154R371901.jpg.366ef89d9a2cdfcbe878605e03283a5e.jpg

 

Same question; pre- or post-War? 

 

Both of these run beautifully on my test track , and this afternoon I'll take some moving footage of them on LB. 

 

I don't have any pictures of the previous Hornby 51XX/61XX Classes (were they ex-Arfix?), but I didn't know that the central 'strap' on the boiler stood proud. On ones I've built, I've soldered it flush. 

 

61XXs (Wills/SEF kits) have appeared on Little Bytham before....................... 

 

 

61XX.jpg

 

A very good runner this one.................... Note, the central strap flush. 


Tony,

That last one, number 6132 the Wills kit, is mine, I bought it ready built but without a motor for £10 at the Scalefour Bring and Buy stand at Leatherhead many years ago. I put it in paint stripper to remove the grotty paint finish and it promptly fell apart, it had been glued together. So I soldered it all back together again.

 

”Great Western” on the side tanks is of course before 1934. “GWR” was during the war and post war. The previous 41XX/61XX was ex Airfix, in fact I believe it was the very first of the better models which challenged the previous rather poor Hornby and before that Triang models. I also think it was rather boring of Hornby to model this version of the prairie tank. It would have been more interesting to models the earlier 31XX and the many derivatives of the type. Particularly those with the high cab roofs and straight frames.

 

I don’t think the strap over the boiler should stand proud I think it’s more accurate on the Wills kit. Obviously the new Hornby loco is a much better model but I don’t think it has the character of the ancient Wills kit which with all its faults is at least unique and has its own special history. I won’t be converting it to EM gauge and it certainly won’t appear on Retford.

 

Sandra

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Another large Prairie at Little Bytham about 6 years ago. The old Hornby ex Airfix one. Weathered by moi.

 

1523027323_LargepraireF.jpg.ee4002c06e5e4d64c40fa1023702116f.jpg

 

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On 13/09/2020 at 14:11, Woodcock29 said:

As I said earlier, yesterday we had a showing of a new exhibition layout called Spirsby built here in Adelaide by my mate Gavin. He has built the layout and I have supplied all the stock plus the GN somersault signals, signal box (still to be completed),  yard crane and 3-D printed GN station fence posts and seats. Whilst there are some details to be finished off on the layout its mostly finished.  The track plan is based on that on the ordinance survey plan. Its a country branch terminus to fiddle yard L shaped layout. To give the yard operator something more to do a loco depot has been built adjacent to the storage sidings. Here are a few photos. Some of the locos and a lot of the goods stock still need weathering.

 

In the background of some of the photos you can also see glimpses of Gavin's Great Moor Street layout.

Andrew

1863601449_IMG_0427ps.jpg.eeb69f96d56a9c2dec1177e294ae3269.jpg511879758_IMG_0418ps.jpg.13866655ea8b57708a0fc52ada699bb4.jpg1382297801_IMG_0410ps.jpg.013f437bf172c040335e08f7c728f195.jpg2104995738_IMG_0405ps.jpg.547289f22bd85389150ee31ef7382c54.jpg1447524037_IMG_0391ps.jpg.ad13793d385756c5bec647821aab4f6c.jpg1460423424_IMG_0379ps.jpg.4402de4e3694ae3fabae3020fe2d0d65.jpg643182351_IMG_0366ps.jpg.4aac29318db12407bc12e7f11cf116a2.jpg1350285915_IMG_0358ps.jpg.c18b0a699b0a89dd7a52c56c69da4705.jpg374139202_IMG_0355ps.jpg.9b1edd8a73dd00d93ff8e16f2510dab5.jpg1376403171_IMG_0335ps.jpg.328d66b8f0dd4e57ea30d32a21acd7e6.jpg

2045124605_IMG_0384ps.jpg.fb4ad0f88d5d2c39606b828eb80dcf25.jpg

 

Beautiful - as others have said, really characterful!

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On 15/09/2020 at 11:21, SP Steve said:

Sorry for taking up room on your thread Tony but as it's LNER then I hope I'm excused!

 

Having earlier posted re: making up the height deficiency for a Chivers D120 brake van, here's the side after having the window details re-instated. I've made an attempt to depict one or two of the pivoted top lights being open - I think these were only found on the D120 versions, the later types having fixed non-opening windows instead.

 

20200915_105854.jpg.1629aa4f9b99e277a6fd6b4a63a11869.jpg

 

20200915_105941.jpg.9e9f3cb64c2423f173999c940de9b77f.jpg

That's superb! I'd looked at those pivoted top lights and wondered about modelling them too :good_mini:

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1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

Beautiful - as others have said, really characterful!

That's down to Gav's skill in making layouts look exceedingly realistic. Everything blends in really well.

Andrew

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7 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

That's down to Gav's skill in making layouts look exceedingly realistic. Everything blends in really well.

Andrew

Hi

 

I totally agree with the other comments your layout is very impressive indeed.

 

My layout Haymarket also has a large engine shed, may I ask how you fixed the large wooden doors to each road in the building

 

Haymarket’s she’d building  had the same detail on it’s West elevation

 

Regards

 

David

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13 hours ago, FarrMan said:

That 'boiler strap' does not appear to be a boiler strap at all. Looking at

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html

 

about a third of the way down, there is a photo of 5120 which shows it quite clearly to be a substantial strap in line with the fronts of the side tanks. It looks clearly to be rectangular cross section. Would it be to hold the front of the tanks in place? Scaling off the copy of the official diagram in Russell, the width of the strap should be app 6" (2mm) but the thickness is too small to measure, certainly no more than 1" and probably more like 0.5".

 

Lloyd

 

 

The strap isn't on the boiler, it holds the tanks together and just passes over the boiler cladding. There was usually only a small gap under it but sometimes it could be bigger - this model does look excessive though.

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11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

The whole roof came off. It's now glued back in place.

 

There are endless complaints about RTR tank locos around the forum saying "I can't get into the cab of my new xxxx to fit the crew"

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10 hours ago, sandra said:


Tony,

That last one, number 6132 the Wills kit, is mine, I bought it ready built but without a motor for £10 at the Scalefour Bring and Buy stand at Leatherhead many years ago. I put it in paint stripper to remove the grotty paint finish and it promptly fell apart, it had been glued together. So I soldered it all back together again.

 

”Great Western” on the side tanks is of course before 1934. “GWR” was during the war and post war. The previous 41XX/61XX was ex Airfix, in fact I believe it was the very first of the better models which challenged the previous rather poor Hornby and before that Triang models. I also think it was rather boring of Hornby to model this version of the prairie tank. It would have been more interesting to models the earlier 31XX and the many derivatives of the type. Particularly those with the high cab roofs and straight frames.

 

I don’t think the strap over the boiler should stand proud I think it’s more accurate on the Wills kit. Obviously the new Hornby loco is a much better model but I don’t think it has the character of the ancient Wills kit which with all its faults is at least unique and has its own special history. I won’t be converting it to EM gauge and it certainly won’t appear on Retford.

 

Sandra

It's interesting your comments regarding 'character', Sandra. 

 

Interesting, because my view is exactly the same (not interesting to anyone else, I'm sure).

 

In a way, this is a curious paradox. With respect to your 61XX, as you say, the latest Hornby manifestation is a far better model. It's crisp, accurate, runs superbly (that's not to say the kit-built one doesn't) and has the correct crankpin position (giving the characteristic GWR 30" throw). It's only more-recently that the likes of Markits' GWR bespoke GWR drivers have this (no Romfords ever did), which so gives that GWR long piston stroke in motion effect; beautiful in fact. 

 

Just glancing through the latest RM, the Hornby 61XXs are around £125.00 brand new (more or less). What price a current SE Finecast kit, plus all the wheels and a motor/gearbox unit as sweet as Hornby's? 

 

What's the term? A 'no-brainer'? But is it? It's been said so many times before, but anyone can have an RTR loco (or anything) as long as they have the money to pay for it. Give or take, it'll be identical to every other one. Granted, it can be personalised (were the new Prairies mine, the first job would be to fix etched 'plates), weathered and so on, and there is great merit in that (as long as its personal and not just farmed-out). But, there's just something about a loco that has been built (or rebuilt) by oneself. One takes full responsibility for what it looks like and, more importantly in my book, how it runs. It might not be as good as the latest piece of RTR wonderment, and (if the kit is bought new with all that's needed to complete it) it'll be more expensive. 

 

The RTR one is egalitarian, the kit-built one is exclusive. Is that what I'm trying to say?  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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13 hours ago, FarrMan said:

That 'boiler strap' does not appear to be a boiler strap at all. Looking at

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html

 

about a third of the way down, there is a photo of 5120 which shows it quite clearly to be a substantial strap in line with the fronts of the side tanks. It looks clearly to be rectangular cross section. Would it be to hold the front of the tanks in place? Scaling off the copy of the official diagram in Russell, the width of the strap should be app 6" (2mm) but the thickness is too small to measure, certainly no more than 1" and probably more like 0.5".

 

Lloyd

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

The strap isn't on the boiler, it holds the tanks together and just passes over the boiler cladding. There was usually only a small gap under it but sometimes it could be bigger - this model does look excessive though.

 

The photo two thirds of the way down the same reference linked to by @FarrMan, captioned "Tanktop detail on 5164. (Alresford, 2013)" is useful, though being in preservation (and "off-region"!) is there a chance that the detail is no longer "authentic"?

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12 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

There are endless complaints about RTR tank locos around the forum saying "I can't get into the cab of my new xxxx to fit the crew"

I wonder why some folk don't employ a little ingenuity.................

 

I don't have many tank locos on Little Bytham (and one or two of those aren't mine - though I made/modified them). 

 

All I do is 'mutilate' model figures so that they'll fit into cabs where access is only available through the windows/doors. Often, I end up with a torso, arms and a head, or just one arm. Legs and posteriors are just snipped off! 

 

1427480459_ABSL1andNu-CastA5.jpg.f410a996c2c8188a34aa30c8e83d2776.jpg

 

The driver in this L1 has lost his nearer leg to get him to fit.

 

1964488849_Nu-CastA504.jpg.2c8bd7b22404ff9560828d7f882700a0.jpg

 

And in this A5, all one can see is an arm and hand (though most of the rest is there).

 

689753173_L108completeonlayout.jpg.ba2a266435c11aa95c9a796fd4f111a4.jpg

 

A bit 'limp' maybe, but all that's left of this driver is what can be seen.

 

1652678860_Figures04.jpg.7e76257952ce2001151b7d98f9b13bdb.jpg

 

This poor guy 'hasn't a leg to stand on'! 

 

N5s.jpg.b77899310c81e4edd09af7b37ace16e3.jpg

 

Just a hint of crews in this pair of N5s............

 

All the figures above are glued in place with a wee dab of cyano.

 

Anyway, in most tank engine cabs, it's difficult to see figures. That said, it's vital that all working locos, whatever their status, are crewed. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

The photo two thirds of the way down the same reference linked to by @FarrMan, captioned "Tanktop detail on 5164. (Alresford, 2013)" is useful, though being in preservation (and "off-region"!) is there a chance that the detail is no longer "authentic"?

 

Thanks for pointing this out. I also notice the paragraph

 

Whistle shields were fitted to 4160–79 when new, but only a few other locos received them. Two extra handrails were added on the strap over the boiler from circa 1945 onwards.

 

This means that the two handrails attached to the 'tank strap' should be on 4154, but not on 6110. It looks to me as though they are omitted from both.

 

Lloyd

 

 

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1 hour ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

 

 

 

The photo two thirds of the way down the same reference linked to by @FarrMan, captioned "Tanktop detail on 5164. (Alresford, 2013)" is useful, though being in preservation (and "off-region"!) is there a chance that the detail is no longer "authentic"?

Parts like this (and the boiler cladding itself) might well have been replaced in preservation and may not be exactly the same as the Swindon original.

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Might they also have been replaced in service during overhauls (not necessarily in Swindon) and therefore may not have been as they came out of the works when built. 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I wonder why some folk don't employ a little ingenuity.................

 

I don't have many tank locos on Little Bytham (and one or two of those aren't mine - though I made/modified them). 

 

All I do is 'mutilate' model figures so that they'll fit into cabs where access is only available through the windows/doors. Often, I end up with a torso, arms and a head, or just one arm. Legs and posteriors are just snipped off! 

 

1427480459_ABSL1andNu-CastA5.jpg.f410a996c2c8188a34aa30c8e83d2776.jpg

 

The driver in this L1 has lost his nearer leg to get him to fit.

 

1964488849_Nu-CastA504.jpg.2c8bd7b22404ff9560828d7f882700a0.jpg

 

And in this A5, all one can see is an arm and hand (though most of the rest is there).

 

689753173_L108completeonlayout.jpg.ba2a266435c11aa95c9a796fd4f111a4.jpg

 

A bit 'limp' maybe, but all that's left of this driver is what can be seen.

 

1652678860_Figures04.jpg.7e76257952ce2001151b7d98f9b13bdb.jpg

 

This poor guy 'hasn't a leg to stand on'! 

 

N5s.jpg.b77899310c81e4edd09af7b37ace16e3.jpg

 

Just a hint of crews in this pair of N5s............

 

All the figures above are glued in place with a wee dab of cyano.

 

Anyway, in most tank engine cabs, it's difficult to see figures. That said, it's vital that all working locos, whatever their status, are crewed. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Modelling in N as I do, I find that to fit crews into locos involves surgery to figures that is positively medieval.

 

i did speak with Alan Butler about this by way of a general discussion, and not in any way criticising, but locos are built to scale size for the period they depicted and time they were built. Scanned humans in 2020 are appreciably larger than they were in those times, both in height and girth so today’s crews will always be larger than needed for loco cabs. 
 

it has taken a while for the penny to drop but I don’t spend quite so much time with 2 bristles on a stick painting my crews until I’ve butchered them and have a fair idea what will be left and visible.

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20 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've just started taking pictures of Hornby's latest large Prairie.................

 

2004279026_Hornby51XX4154R371901.jpg.366ef89d9a2cdfcbe878605e03283a5e.jpg

 

Both of these run beautifully on my test track , and this afternoon I'll take some moving footage of them on LB. 

 

 

Tony,

 

Is it an optical illusion or are the slide bars out of alignment?  They don't look to be parallel with the cylinder centre line.  If so, then doesn't the piston rod bind or are the clearances sufficient for this not to matter?

 

Adam

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I'd agree with Tony, locos without crew don't look right. Of course the further back you go in history the more visible they are as cabs generally covered a lot less of the footplate.

 

 For crews I like Andy Staddens range with separate heads and arms;

 

https://www.acstadden.co.uk/shop-3

 

I have also used some of the HO figures where space is tight, after all folk do come in a range of sizes. 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Adam88 said:

 

Tony,

 

Is it an optical illusion or are the slide bars out of alignment?  They don't look to be parallel with the cylinder centre line.  If so, then doesn't the piston rod bind or are the clearances sufficient for this not to matter?

 

Adam

You are right. Mine is like that too but only on one side. There is a recess in the bottom of the running plate that the top of the motion bracket is supposed to fit into, but I can't get one of them to engage properly. It doesn't seem to affect the running though.

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11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

All I do is 'mutilate' model figures so that they'll fit into cabs where access is only available through the windows/doors. Often, I end up with a torso, arms and a head, or just one arm. Legs and posteriors are just snipped off! 

I find most figures won't fit in the cab as bought  so mine are being treated  likewise. Tools for fitting are snippers and craft knife, tweezers and cocktail stick, cyano and a 'straightened paper clip' applicator.

 

Eric

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