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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Did any of the ex-GWR 0-4-2Ts ever run in unlined green at the end of their lives?

 

Tony

 

According to Vol 3 of Peto's Registers, 1424 & 1454 were painted unlined green in early 1957. 1458 was painted in lined green a month later. It also states that a few of the last repaints during the early 1960's were in unlined green.

 

1432 received a Heavy General from Stafford Road works 26/11/58, and Light Casuals from Oswestry works 4/2/60, 13/4/61, and 18/5/62 before being withdrawn 27/7/63 and cut up 2 months later. It was allocated to Oswestry continually from April 1941 to withdrawal.

 

Lloyd

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2 minutes ago, FarrMan said:

 

Tony

 

According to Vol 3 of Peto's Registers, 1424 & 1454 were painted unlined green in early 1957. 1458 was painted in lined green a month later. It also states that a few of the last repaints during the early 1960's were in unlined green.

 

1432 received a Heavy General from Stafford Road works 26/11/58, and Light Casuals from Oswestry works 4/2/60, 13/4/61, and 18/5/62 before being withdrawn 27/7/63 and cut up 2 months later. It was allocated to Oswestry continually from April 1941 to withdrawal.

 

Lloyd

 

I have also noted that there are a couple of photos of 1432 in Peto. On p68 taken on 28/8/1952, still lettered GWR, unlined, and on p29 taken on 19/8/1959 (i.e. after last Heavy general) again clearly unlined.

 

Lloyd

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18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I saved it and lightened it up.

 

Loco definitely green but, the lightening made the coach look pink so I'm guessing it was deliberately printed dark.

 

John

Can you, (one), selectively lighten it so the coach stays a truer colour?

richard 

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15 minutes ago, richard i said:

Can you, (one), selectively lighten it so the coach stays a truer colour?

richard 

 

Not sure why one would wish to do so - the photo appears, to my eyes at least, to be a true representation of BR loco green that has been very dirty, but has been fairly effectively cleaned.

 

To lighten the green would not produce a more accurate representation of what the photographer saw.

 

John isherwood.

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

.

I think the factory-finished RTR weathering might be OK as a starting point, especially when it's well-applied........

 

795860918_HornbyweatheredSentinel.jpg.6c52eadeb0e6a83119ba301e57bf6604.jpg

 

As on this Hornby Sentinel. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  


The RTR weathering varies from batch to batch, there was one release of a  9F sometimes referred to as. Cadbury’s 9F as the weathering was so uniformly heavy it looked like they had been dunked in milk chocolate. I’ve got one on the shelf of doom to complete.

The Sentinels above in my experience aren’t too bad, here’s two that have been unweathered, laser glazed, and then lightly weathered.

616B9FC0-845A-4597-80D3-004B1C1117EC.jpeg.396773babb28aaa9786b5f60aaee5383.jpeg

 

Removal was a mix of T-Cut, and Tamiya thinners. It’s worth mentioning not to get any solvents of any of the brands on the factory glazing, you can often get a chemical reaction where the plastic fogs.

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2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I saved it and lightened it up.

 

Loco definitely green but, the lightening made the coach look pink so I'm guessing it was deliberately printed dark.

 

John

And the station 'sausage' totem looks ER blue, yet it's Yatton!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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I came across this video a while back because I had watched some good stuff from Belfast Jack on Vimeo.   Now on U-tube in 'HD' it has some superb shots of Kings Cross and surrounds.  Note, if someone else has posted this video and i missed it I apologize for 'double posting'

 

 

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9 hours ago, richard i said:

Can you, (one), selectively lighten it so the coach stays a truer colour?

richard 

Not with the software I have. and probably not with the jpeg format of the photo as posted. The coach is heading for pinkness even in the un-lightened photo, and BR crimson tended to fade in that direction so it's probably not inaccurate.

 

It's also (presumably) a scan from a 35mm slide, moving us at least one more generation away from the original image. If the slide scanned from was a copy of the original, that introduces another level of degradation, as there's always some loss when copying, however carefully it is done. 

 

If the image were a RAW file (which it clearly can't be), or one had an original negative to scan from, there might be a chance of conducting such post-processing.

 

At my level of understanding of the subject, and using the image as presented, I'd say any manipulation will introduce some unwanted side-effect.   

 

Attached is the best I could do with it. However, comparing the colour with the coach on the right, and the buffer beam of the loco, I'd say the auto-trailer really was that faded.

 

John

Edited from 1454-1.jpg.83b3063fb7acad6a3b7c119568538274.jpg

Edited by Dunsignalling
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7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

And the station 'sausage' totem looks ER blue, yet it's Yatton!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes, looks like one of those weird effects that came free with some slide film or has crept in as the original aged.

 

Failing that, it might be a strong reflection of light bouncing off the shiny green loco onto the shiny brown sign.....

 

John

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11 hours ago, Theakerr said:

I came across this video a while back because I had watched some good stuff from Belfast Jack on Vimeo.   Now on U-tube in 'HD' it has some superb shots of Kings Cross and surrounds.  Note, if someone else has posted this video and i missed it I apologize for 'double posting'

 

 

I think it has been posted before, but it's nonetheless worth seeing again.

 

Interestingly, the two prestige trains I can identify are hauled by A3s (still with single chimneys) - the 'Queen of Scots' (4.34) and 'The Talisman' (6.39).

 

Great stuff! Thanks for showing us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

At my level of understanding of the subject, and using the image as presented, I'd say any manipulation will introduce some unwanted side-effect. 

 

John

Edited from 1454-1.jpg.83b3063fb7acad6a3b7c119568538274.jpg

 

If the digital file is corrected by a professional who knows what they are doing there won't be unwanted side effects. Individual areas can be altered without effecting other parts of the image. However, such an approach can be very time consuming and there has to be a strong understanding of exactly what is required for such adjustments to be successful.

 

As a wider note on using Photoshop to alter photographs – if you can see it's been used then it hasn't been used to a professional standard, unless a surreal effect is wanted.

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1 hour ago, Anglian said:

 

If the digital file is corrected by a professional who knows what they are doing there won't be unwanted side effects. Individual areas can be altered without effecting other parts of the image. However, such an approach can be very time consuming and there has to be a strong understanding of exactly what is required for such adjustments to be successful.

 

As a wider note on using Photoshop to alter photographs – if you can see it's been used then it hasn't been used to a professional standard, unless a surreal effect is wanted.

 

There are far too many variables here... was the original on Kodak, Fuji, Agfa or other film, as a transparency or negative... all had different colour balances in the original material.  How old was the film?  The different pigments fade at different rates over time.  

 

Also the photograph appears to have autumnal tints in the trees, again we know that seasonal light variances will affect tonality.  And that’s before you consider the different products that we are each using to view the image.  So far too many variables here for anyone to make an accurate comment on colour!

 

Interesting to note though, the different colours to the buffer shanks.

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I totally agree, the difficulty is not in using the software effectively but in deciding what the end result should be since, as you write, what is true the colour range. Since our computer screens will be showing slightly different things anyway it's an impossible task to satisfy everyone and say 'this is what the true colour looked like on the day'.

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40 minutes ago, Chamby said:

Interesting to note though, the different colours to the buffer shanks.

 

I suspect that the cleaner's shift ended before he got to the RH buffer - he didn't have time to do the autotrain connection box behind the vac. pipe, either!

 

John Isherwood.

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On 09/12/2012 at 18:42, Andy Y said:

 

They're all Tony's pics, I particularly like the image of the weathered O2 which was begrimed by Tim Shackleton.

 

Tony's advised "both 63925 and 63980 are on Retford GC shed (check the houses on the old A1 in the background). Out of interest, the real 63940 and 63943 are at Frodingham and 63934 is at Mexborough. "

 

Tony's also included another lovely image of an O2/4, built by John Houlden from a Nu-Cast kit and running on his Gamston Bank layout.

 

06 Gamston.jpg

 

I'm pleased to say that Tony is penning a whole series of articles for BRM to be published next year where he muses over the matters of prototype modelling and the building of kits. I'm told the first one is considered controversial!

Hi

 

I know it’s an old photo but an absolutely Brilliant photo, very Lifelike and realistic.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited by landscapes
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1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi

 

I know it’s an old photo but an absolutely Brilliant photo, very Lifelike and realistic.

 

Regards

 

David

Thanks David,

 

And it's eight years ago at least! 

 

To get a lifelike and realistic photograph, one has to have lifelike and realistic modelling....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Anglian said:

 

If the digital file is corrected by a professional who knows what they are doing there won't be unwanted side effects. Individual areas can be altered without effecting other parts of the image. However, such an approach can be very time consuming and there has to be a strong understanding of exactly what is required for such adjustments to be successful.

 

As a wider note on using Photoshop to alter photographs – if you can see it's been used then it hasn't been used to a professional standard, unless a surreal effect is wanted.

 

That would be akin to colourising colour images.  We are only seeing a camera's interpretation of the event - with particular lighting: intensity; colour cast; direction; diffusion; etc, film type (incidentally, I doubt Fuji were selling film in the UK at the time this picture was taken), processing, duplication, scanning, etc.  The blueness of the BR totem is probably a reflection from the blue sky of a sunny day.  There is though sufficient information here for the picture to be helpful, we know the location, the type of locomotive, its number, its crest, its task, its lamps of course - important for WW readers.

 

It's difficult when people try and colourise monochrome photographs and film.  I generally don't like it, apart from the contemporary Alf Cooke/"F Moore" type images published in The Locomotive and the Railway Magazine in days gone by where I think the photographs were used to help the artist.  Even then much depends on the artist using the information.  This example intrigues me, an LNER locomotive in an attractive hybrid GNR (brown frames)/LNER livery.  I don't think this is a true reflection of the prototype but is it helpful?  Other prints of the type lighten the frames to grey to help show detail.  The perspective here shows that this picture is based on a photograph, probably one of those superb builder's photographs where everything was painted in matt black, grey and white.

 

584380101_LNERHarvester.jpg.faef98a40929f8f506a8e4078cd7eb59.jpg

 

In one recent example a colourised photograph used on a book's dust jacket there were green L&Y carriages!  The further we move from the time and date of the photographer the worse the problem becomes.  Tony has often alluded to this with his comments on photograph captions.  Often information is lost forever - sometimes almost as soon as the shutter was pressed, there has been much discussion about Eric Treacy's collection.  In the modelling domain we also get further from the original with all our compromises, for many the trick is to pull it back as closely as we can to whatever we are trying to achieve.

 

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The best go a colourising was Weta digital and the World War 1 footage, also frame rate fixes.

 

Only obvious errors were occasionally legs.

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I mentioned in a previous post how the cab roof came off one of the latest Hornby Prairies I'm reviewing.

 

174668509_Hornby61XX6110R372107.jpg.48c60860650a010f75c804879f992874.jpg

 

At least it gave me the opportunity of taking a picture of the cab interior (the cab roof is now fixed back on). 

 

Detail like this is staggering, and all the more remarkable in that it's all but invisible with the roof replaced! What more can we expect from our RTR manufacturers?

 

232053160_MarshChipping04.jpg.adabf23d3f228c4641932bca7d359895.jpg

 

Without appearing to be too disparaging, I'm assuming that this N Gauge example of the class is an early Farish one? 

 

I think it's accepted that the smaller scales are best showing 'railways in a landscape' (though some of the 2mm FS locos I've taken pictures of in the last year or two have been incredible). 

 

This is an 'open question', but is there a prejudice in some quarters with regard to N Gauge locos and rolling stock? A prejudice involving prices? Some more-recent N Gauge equivalent locos/rolling stock appear to me to be approaching price-parity with their OO cousins. Yet, though they're far better than of yore, the detail tends to be (out of necessity) 'cruder', especially valve gear/motion and wheels. I don't really know, since I've never been an N Gauge modeller, but what does a Farish 61XX cost these days? Or, are they still made? 

 

Of course, the larger the scale, the more impressive the models.

 

Especially if they're as good as these.......................

 

451113708_82G31.jpg.a407e13f52923a899cd2bc8bf24a064f.jpg

 

Two large Prairies on Warley's 82G, I imagine painted by Ian Rathbone. 

 

1285954358_82G26.jpg.6e17fe713c21c35c05faf67a1576423b.jpg

 

How natural is this? 

 

Looking through my photographic library, my pictures of 51XX/61XX Classes are in short supply.

 

I had a Graham Farish 61XX in OO well over 50 years ago (the last of the line?). I bought it from Trickett's in Garden Lane, Chester (anyone remember that establishment?). It didn't pick-up off all its drivers and had no piston rods. Yet, it cost a lot of money! 

 

Any more pictures out there showing these handsome Prairies? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Of course, the larger the scale, the more impressive the models.

 

Especially if they're as good as these.......................

 

451113708_82G31.jpg.a407e13f52923a899cd2bc8bf24a064f.jpg

 

With the quality of weathering of the wagon, as well as the trackwork in the foreground it's very easy to believe this is a photo of a real location. First class.

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I mentioned in a previous post how the cab roof came off one of the latest Hornby Prairies I'm reviewing.

 

174668509_Hornby61XX6110R372107.jpg.48c60860650a010f75c804879f992874.jpg

 

At least it gave me the opportunity of taking a picture of the cab interior (the cab roof is now fixed back on). 

 

Detail like this is staggering, and all the more remarkable in that it's all but invisible with the roof replaced! What more can we expect from our RTR manufacturers?

 

232053160_MarshChipping04.jpg.adabf23d3f228c4641932bca7d359895.jpg

 

Without appearing to be too disparaging, I'm assuming that this N Gauge example of the class is an early Farish one? 

 

I think it's accepted that the smaller scales are best showing 'railways in a landscape' (though some of the 2mm FS locos I've taken pictures of in the last year or two have been incredible). 

 

This is an 'open question', but is there a prejudice in some quarters with regard to N Gauge locos and rolling stock? A prejudice involving prices? Some more-recent N Gauge equivalent locos/rolling stock appear to me to be approaching price-parity with their OO cousins. Yet, though they're far better than of yore, the detail tends to be (out of necessity) 'cruder', especially valve gear/motion and wheels. I don't really know, since I've never been an N Gauge modeller, but what does a Farish 61XX cost these days? Or, are they still made? 

 

Of course, the larger the scale, the more impressive the models.

 

Especially if they're as good as these.......................

 

451113708_82G31.jpg.a407e13f52923a899cd2bc8bf24a064f.jpg

 

Two large Prairies on Warley's 82G, I imagine painted by Ian Rathbone. 

 

1285954358_82G26.jpg.6e17fe713c21c35c05faf67a1576423b.jpg

 

How natural is this? 

 

Looking through my photographic library, my pictures of 51XX/61XX Classes are in short supply.

 

I had a Graham Farish 61XX in OO well over 50 years ago (the last of the line?). I bought it from Trickett's in Garden Lane, Chester (anyone remember that establishment?). It didn't pick-up off all its drivers and had no piston rods. Yet, it cost a lot of money! 

 

Any more pictures out there showing these handsome Prairies? 

 

 

 

I'm afraid I do have a bit of a prejudice against N, I find them difficult to see properly. I find the 2mm FS incredible as it is too small to see detail

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23 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

I'm afraid I do have a bit of a prejudice against N, I find them difficult to see properly. I find the 2mm FS incredible as it is too small to see detail

 

I hope you don't drive. The figures on the speedo are smaller than a N/2mm loco.

 

 

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