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You are judging the colour of the experimental purply-blue Hornby A4 by a photo copied and pasted from Hornby's website.  The actual model, several of which we sold as they were fairly good sellers, is much closer to the prototype photo posted, and a long way from that Hornby image!

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2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Here's another of Hornby's goes at experimental blue:

 

merlin.jpg.f11ff3aa3d7e3ec2da6f78e7f61240b5.jpg

 

This was a Modelfair limited edition - I don't think it was ever in the main Hornby catalogue.

 

 

Is it a feature of the Hornby A4 that the tender rides too high up?

 

I don't believe any A4 tender had the top pillar on the vertical handrail so much higher than the corresponding one on the cab. 482883509_60014small.jpg.5655d1ef25fa410d85aa25cd04dfa8bc.jpg

 

It's true, on those tenders not fitted with the extra strip at the base of the soleplate for the pre-War stainless steel adornments, the loco's valance was lower than the tank's base, but nowhere near as low as on the model above. Incidentally, at least one of the LNER A4 models shown of late has the stainless steel strip attached to the base of the tank, not below the solebar as it should be.  60027 should have that extra strip, by the way; or at least when she towed a 1935-type streamlined corridor tender. 

 

190578496_60022small.jpg.b243d35ca31e6c30ed1ded348d42e1e2.jpg

 

The 1928 corridor tenders (exA1/A3) had a tender handrail shorter than that on the cab. 

 

MALLARD was a great tender changer. 

 

2053331807_60022studio02.jpg.d914113fa61a22d13d0651b0fe6b02da.jpg

 

Here's Bytham's model of the fastest of all. Built from a Pro-Scale kit (along with 60024), this loco was started by Mick Peabody, but he rather got bamboozled when it came to the complex body-shapes. I, thus, finished it off, asking Ian Rathbone to paint her. 

 

I soldered the extra strip to the bottom of the tender's soleplate, thus getting the thing more in line with the valance. 

 

Pro-Scale A4s are not the easiest of kits to build (because of their complexities), but they're superior to just about all the others (apart from the Finney one). I don't think they're still available; or are they? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Pro-Scale A4s are not the easiest of kits to build (because of their complexities), but they're superior to just about all the others (apart from the Finney one). I don't think they're still available; or are they? 

 

 

That's good news Tony (Good Evening!) I have one to build that cost very little. Hope that I am not too stretched by the compound curves.

 

60022 looks splendid.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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3 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

 

Not sure, but somehow I think one of the side doors would be open so that the poor chap can extricate himself after pushing the remaining coal through the bottom doors.

In my local yard they never used the bottom doors.

It was always a side door propped up to be horizontal and the coal loaded into sacks and placed on the door and then taken off the edge onto a flat bed lorry. But that was ex midland and they had their own way of doing things even in BR days.

Bernard

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47 minutes ago, nsl714 said:

Hello Tony and all,

 

If I may, I'd like to interrupt the fascinating discussion of A4 tenders to share something I've made, freshly finished today. This is a Connoisseur Models Adams O2 in 7mm scale, finished as W24 'Calbourne' in mid-1930's condition. This is the first engine kit I have built, and I am particularly proud of how it came out. The engine is smooth running, (thanks to the care and attention instilled by the 'Right Track' series), and the lining was all done with a bowpen. It was very much a learning experience, and I do look forward to attacking other kits in the future.

 

783077432_SouthernO21.jpg.a7f3f063ede3f0b5ab57734cac827d7f.jpg

 

Thanks,

Zach

 

Speaking as a Southern enthusiast - that looks superb! (especially as a first build!).

Tony

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Tony,

 

I’ve read the debate about the A4s with great interest. As I said I think I need at least one more A4 on Retford and preferably two. I must say the Pro Scale A4 looks pretty good but the kit is no longer available except perhaps on E-bay. I’ve got reservations about the Hornby A4, the valve gear is rather one dimensional and the cylinders are poor. Also I have doubts about whether one could manage the trains on Retford from the point of view of hauling long trains at a scale 65mph on the undulating layout. However I do already have a Hornby A4, 60020 Guillemot, which I bought some time ago. What I intend to do is do a quick conversion of this loco to EM gauge, load the body with as much lead as I can and see how it performs. If it can manage then I’ll try and improve the valve gear and cylinders although whether any of this can be seen when hauling an express at 65 mph through Retford is doubtful.

 

I also intend to buy a SEF A4 because I really do want the weight which a white metal body can give. The model is very flawed particularly in the shape of the nose but the weight factor is more important to me and I feel that with a bit of filing the shape of the nose can be improved.

 

There are four A4s on Retford, I don’t know the provenance of all of them but certainly a couple have Trix  bodies. I think 60018 Sparrow Hawk may have a Hornby body on a Comet under frame. This locomotive looks very good but it is prone to derail if going fast therefore speed has to kept down. Both the locomotive and tender are compensated and I think this may be the problem, I think it may need the compensation adjusting. The other three are marvellous they haul heavy trans with no problem and look great.

 

I don’t wish to be too hard on Hornby. One locomotive I have introduced on Retford is 60135 Madge Wildfire. This is actually a Hornby Railroad “Tornado” with various modifications to make it resemble an ordinary A1 and with quite a bit of weight added. It has been converted to EM by the expedient of simply pulling out the existing driving wheels to EM gauge. The mechanism is very smooth complete with flywheel and it runs well and can haul a 12 coach train round Retford including heavy metal coaches. This brand new locomotive cost the princely sum of £50 at Warley last year.

 

I do hope to post some photos of Retford locos soon.
 

Sandra

 

 

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Hello Tony and everyone, another brief interupption to the A4 discussion (which I'm reading with interest, but which I'm not knowledgable enough to contribute to) for the coach I finished today and would like to share, a Mousa Models resin kit of a GNR D129 Lavatory Composite, in LNER livery:

1347623904_GNRD12920201124(7).JPEG.0f8839faa3ea49eec15c32cd189c5ea0.JPEG

 

1428667434_GNRD12920201124(6).JPEG.a3e08726b34b3808ededc8ad11442cea.JPEG

 

As usual, apologies to those who dislike them for the tension lock couplings - I'll try and remember to take photos before fitting them next time.

And now, back to the A4s :)

Chas

 

 

Edited by Chas Levin
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28 minutes ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

I’ve read the debate about the A4s with great interest. As I said I think I need at least one more A4 on Retford and preferably two. I must say the Pro Scale A4 looks pretty good but the kit is no longer available except perhaps on E-bay. I’ve got reservations about the Hornby A4, the valve gear is rather one dimensional and the cylinders are poor. Also I have doubts about whether one could manage the trains on Retford from the point of view of hauling long trains at a scale 65mph on the undulating layout. However I do already have a Hornby A4, 60020 Guillemot, which I bought some time ago. What I intend to do is do a quick conversion of this loco to EM gauge, load the body with as much lead as I can and see how it performs. If it can manage then I’ll try and improve the valve gear and cylinders although whether any of this can be seen when hauling an express at 65 mph through Retford is doubtful.

 

I also intend to buy a SEF A4 because I really do want the weight which a white metal body can give. The model is very flawed particularly in the shape of the nose but the weight factor is more important to me and I feel that with a bit of filing the shape of the nose can be improved.

 

There are four A4s on Retford, I don’t know the provenance of all of them but certainly a couple have Trix  bodies. I think 60018 Sparrow Hawk may have a Hornby body on a Comet under frame. This locomotive looks very good but it is prone to derail if going fast therefore speed has to kept down. Both the locomotive and tender are compensated and I think this may be the problem, I think it may need the compensation adjusting. The other three are marvellous they haul heavy trans with no problem and look great.

 

I don’t wish to be too hard on Hornby. One locomotive I have introduced on Retford is 60135 Madge Wildfire. This is actually a Hornby Railroad “Tornado” with various modifications to make it resemble an ordinary A1 and with quite a bit of weight added. It has been converted to EM by the expedient of simply pulling out the existing driving wheels to EM gauge. The mechanism is very smooth complete with flywheel and it runs well and can haul a 12 coach train round Retford including heavy metal coaches. This brand new locomotive cost the princely sum of £50 at Warley last year.

 

I do hope to post some photos of Retford locos soon.
 

Sandra

 

 

Good evening Sandra,

 

I think SPARROW HAWK has a Trix body; as does MERLIN and MALLARD (though where 60022 is now, I don't know). 

 

Whichever A4 bodies Roy might have used, as runners (with his mechanisms) they'll be superb (which surprises me when you say 60018 derails). 

 

I'll have a go at making and fitting an EM Gauge chassis underneath one of my SEF A4s, and, when restrictions are lifted, we can see how it looks (and performs) on Retford. I doubt if there'll be any problems with haulage capacity...............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

In my local yard they never used the bottom doors.

It was always a side door propped up to be horizontal and the coal loaded into sacks and placed on the door and then taken off the edge onto a flat bed lorry. But that was ex midland and they had their own way of doing things even in BR days.

Bernard

Good evening Bernard,

 

Did the Midland ever have elevated coal staithes? 

 

1916876460_Edenham34.jpg.5b2d518edc351f840b5ae19fd0a83577.jpg

 

Ian Wilson has arranged the coal staithes on Edenham to be elevated, so the bottom doors would have to be used to discharge coal. 

 

I suppose I could argue that the side doors on the wee wagon would be closed to prevent spillage, either on to the boardwalk or on to the heads of coal merchants below. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Did the Midland ever have elevated coal staithes? 

 

I wouldn't like to say never but hardly ever, at least in the classic NER form. There were coal drops at various places such as the Cambridge St wharf on the Regents Canal but those were set up for tipping wagons. On the other hand, the standard Midland opens used for mineral traffic and a great many PO wagons running on the Midland system had bottom doors, so there must have been places where they were needed. Possibly, now I come to think of it, the south London coal depots.

 

As for propping up the door: http://www.midlandrailwaystudycentre.org.uk/catimages/28926.jpg.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Bernard,

 

Did the Midland ever have elevated coal staithes? 

 

1916876460_Edenham34.jpg.5b2d518edc351f840b5ae19fd0a83577.jpg

 

Ian Wilson has arranged the coal staithes on Edenham to be elevated, so the bottom doors would have to be used to discharge coal. 

 

I suppose I could argue that the side doors on the wee wagon would be closed to prevent spillage, either on to the boardwalk or on to the heads of coal merchants below. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Tony, in the NER record volume 1 there is scale drawings from the NER.  There is a fence/ handrail on the road side which would stopped shunters falling onto the loading side. 

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Hi Jesse

The J6 is looking good.

Just a couple of questions/comments if I may. Are those safety valves what were supplied in the kit? They look a strange shape to me. Secondly did that chimney come in the kit? I wasn't sure if the kit is supplied with two chimneys - one for earlier LNER period and a shorter one for WW2 onwards? I only have an old WSM J6 running at present but have Graeme King's resin cast version as well as a LRM kit to build.

 

Regards

Andrew

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44 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

Hi Jesse

The J6 is looking good.

Just a couple of questions/comments if I may. Are those safety valves what were supplied in the kit? They look a strange shape to me. Secondly did that chimney come in the kit? I wasn't sure if the kit is supplied with two chimneys - one for earlier LNER period and a shorter one for WW2 onwards? I only have an old WSM J6 running at present but have Graeme King's resin cast version as well as a LRM kit to build.

 

Regards

Andrew

They were supplied yeah, it actually came with three chimneys, I was going of a photo one in 30s and it looked like the most suitable. 

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3 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

I’m proud to say I’ve pretty much finished this J6. Couple of small things to add on and a bit more cleaning up, but, she runs!!! I’ve surprised myself with this and I really am proud at the same time. 
 

All my own work, however thanks is in order to you Tony for sending me those pictures of your recent J6 build, it helped a lot. 
 

The tender is sitting awkwardly as it’s not screwed in properly, ran out of 6BA’s, off to get some now. 

D1B64B38-1F71-4C67-8CC7-C68CF1ED2232.jpeg

971CA901-2C2F-44E1-8065-B76CB11E9DF0.jpeg

Well done Jesse, on having constructed your first loco that runs; may it be the first of many.

 

It took me three goes before I got my first one to run anything like reliably. For me, that was over 35 years ago and even now, there is sense of both wonder and smugness the first time a new loco runs. There is no feeling quite like it (in the railway modelling world)

 

Good on yer, mate! You've pushed yourself beyond your capabilities - and found your capabilities are greater as a result. Now crack on with the next one and consolidate the achievement.

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12 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Hello Tony and everyone, another brief interupption to the A4 discussion (which I'm reading with interest, but which I'm not knowledgable enough to contribute to) for the coach I finished today and would like to share, a Mousa Models resin kit of a GNR D129 Lavatory Composite, in LNER livery:

1347623904_GNRD12920201124(7).JPEG.0f8839faa3ea49eec15c32cd189c5ea0.JPEG

 

1428667434_GNRD12920201124(6).JPEG.a3e08726b34b3808ededc8ad11442cea.JPEG

 

As usual, apologies to those who dislike them for the tension lock couplings - I'll try and remember to take photos before fitting them next time.

And now, back to the A4s :)

Chas

 

 

 

Hello Chas,

 

Nice. We should see more vintage LNER models on here. Did you find that the roof edge actually managed to form a neat, closed joint to the tops of the sides when merely clipped in as supplied? I had to use additional persuasion when building my six-wheelers.

My main concern about the tension lock coupling (if you need one of that width) would be that it sticks out way beyond the buffer heads. Is there a way to reduce the projection until it is just enough to prevent problems with buffers on your track curves?

The cornice / gutter strip on the roof edge ought to be varnished wood colour...

Edited by gr.king
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4 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Well now, I started this a few months ago, I think maybe more then a few.... I got the sh*ts with it and placed back in its box.

 

I dragged it out the other day and was determined to finish it. It’s a Nucast kit I picked up from Warley last year and it’s my second attempt at a loco kit from start to finish, the first being the SEF J39 which was never finished. I probably will finish it one day, I have a new chassis and motor... hmmmm.....one day! 
 

Anyway, I’m proud to say I’ve pretty much finished this J6. Couple of small things to add on and a bit more cleaning up, but, she runs!!! I’ve surprised myself with this and I really am proud at the same time. 
 

All my own work, however thanks is in order to you Tony for sending me those pictures of your recent J6 build, it helped a lot. 
 

The tender is sitting awkwardly as it’s not screwed in properly, ran out of 6BA’s, off to get some now. 

D1B64B38-1F71-4C67-8CC7-C68CF1ED2232.jpeg

971CA901-2C2F-44E1-8065-B76CB11E9DF0.jpeg

 

Well done on the J6 Jesse. My first complete loco, both body and mechanism, was also a NuCast J6 which I was given for Christmas when I was around 16 or 17. I excused myself, went up to my desk and came down with it finished Boxing day teatime. It was the start of a great adventure building locos and I hope you have as much fun coming to you as I have had and continue to have.

 

I will make a couple of suggestions. I think you may have mixed up the castings for the whistle (don't know why there were two in the kit - maybe wrongly packed) and the safety valve. The safety valves should look a bit like a cotton reel, with a narrow section in the middle and a rim top and bottom. If you didn't get them in the kit, I am sure somebody will help you out with some spares.

 

Secondly, it is possible to see through the frame cut outs under the firebox. In reality, the view would be blocked by the ashpan/firebox lower edge. It might be worth just blanking that off with a bit of black plasticard. You could add a bit of detailing if you wanted but it is well hidden away and just stopping the daylight coming through is likely to be enough.

 

The GNR loading gauge was a bit more generous than some of the other LNER group members so many locos had lower boiler mountings fitted fairly soon after 1923 to allow them to run over other parts of the system. I can't recall how long the last GNR tall ones survived but it would have been a few years before they changed them all. I think the tall GNR type is the one you have fitted.

 

Lovely stuff. What's not to like about a J6?

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44 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Well done Jesse, on having constructed your first loco that runs; may it be the first of many.

 

It took me three goes before I got my first one to run anything like reliably. For me, that was over 35 years ago and even now, there is sense of both wonder and smugness the first time a new loco runs. There is no feeling quite like it (in the railway modelling world)

 

Good on yer, mate! You've pushed yourself beyond your capabilities - and found your capabilities are greater as a result. Now crack on with the next one and consolidate the achievement.

Thanks Graham, the one thing I need to work on is the chassis to body, like making it sure it runs when the body is on. But I’m getting there. 
 

many thanks for the kind words. 

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19 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Well done on the J6 Jesse. My first complete loco, both body and mechanism, was also a NuCast J6 which I was given for Christmas when I was around 16 or 17. I excused myself, went up to my desk and came down with it finished Boxing day teatime. It was the start of a great adventure building locos and I hope you have as much fun coming to you as I have had and continue to have.

 

I will make a couple of suggestions. I think you may have mixed up the castings for the whistle (don't know why there were two in the kit - maybe wrongly packed) and the safety valve. The safety valves should look a bit like a cotton reel, with a narrow section in the middle and a rim top and bottom. If you didn't get them in the kit, I am sure somebody will help you out with some spares.

 

Secondly, it is possible to see through the frame cut outs under the firebox. In reality, the view would be blocked by the ashpan/firebox lower edge. It might be worth just blanking that off with a bit of black plasticard. You could add a bit of detailing if you wanted but it is well hidden away and just stopping the daylight coming through is likely to be enough.

 

The GNR loading gauge was a bit more generous than some of the other LNER group members so many locos had lower boiler mountings fitted fairly soon after 1923 to allow them to run over other parts of the system. I can't recall how long the last GNR tall ones survived but it would have been a few years before they changed them all. I think the tall GNR type is the one you have fitted.

 

Lovely stuff. What's not to like about a J6?

I have definitely mixed the two up, I’m going to have a look in the box tomorrow and see if I can’t find the correct ones. There were actually three whistles, as well as three chimneys. Regarding the chimney, I’m going of a photo I have of a J6 in the mid 30s, it seemed to be the appropriate one. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Tony, I expect  "Lockdown 2" has stopped you from visiting Edenham, but was there a decision on the size and style  of the station building?  My fancy was for one similar in style to the Willoughby Arms.

The larger building (seen in earlier photographs) has been chosen.

 

It is frustrating not being able to take further pictures of Edenham. Let's see what happens next week...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Jesse

I'd be interested to see what the other two chimneys look like. Perhaps you could take a photo of them tomorrow?

 

The chimney for 1930s should be almost 2ft tall, ie 8mm. The one you have fitted does look a bit tall to me.  Looking closer I can also see that the two safety valves I queried are in fact whistle castings as Tony G has indicated.

 

Andrew

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