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10 hours ago, gr.king said:

 

It was very fortunate that I built my vehicles including a modification that allowed me to separate the body from the floor, giving access to the interior at any desired time. That makes it easier and less nerve-wracking to unclip the roof in a controlled and non-destructive way, by squeezing the gutters from the outside, levering gently at the clips from inside, and working a lever or spacer into the joint from the outside, starting at one end of one side and working along the body.

I found that even after carefully filing just the irregularities off the raw printed shapes of the top of the side and the under-edge of the roof, ensuring that they could meet "flush", the clips simply weren't enough to nip the gap down tightly. In at least one case the roof was also showing the "raised ends and low middle" tendency, although I had carefully removed anything from the tops of the body ends that might push the roof ends up. Manipulating the roof to a "corrected" shape after softening in hot water and then "setting" the shape in cold water failed to overcome the difficulties.

I resorted to using some chunky square-bar plastic (5 or 6mm section I think) stuck to the underside of the roof along its centre line to resist any sagging, and added plastic shim pieces to the bar so that it sat in contact with the tops of the compartment partitions too, ensuring that the roof couldn't possibly sink in the middle. I then held the edges down and very carefully super-glued them to the tops of the sides - after fitting the glazing in its slots of course!

Ah, OK, that's sounds like a pretty comprehensive re-working. It didn't occur to me to look at separating the body and floor and it looked like such a solid piece but I can see how that would have allowed for a much better roof situation: thanks for the details Graeme. If I build another one I'll follow that scheme...

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7 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

Thanks for posting this photo Jesse. You've already fitted the snifting valve behind the chimney in the photos of you model. Not sure what those other bits are on the w/m sprue. 

 

The taller chimney in this photo looks to me like its meant to be the version suited to most J6s through the 1920-30s but it doesn't look quite right perhaps its too fat? It is a built up chimney and should be 1' 11 1/4" tall (ie about 7.7 mm)  but to me looks too fat. The first 15 J6s, according to Yeadon, were built with plain cast chimneys with a deep cap and were 1' 11 7/8", so 5/8" taller - I suspect that is the chimney you have fitted to your J6 (so should be about 8 mm tall), although in the photo of you model it looks taller than that. These cast chimneys were replaced by the built up chimneys through the 1920s.  During WW2 the built up chimneys were replaced by cast chimneys 1' 7 1/2" tall (and slightly reduced cab height) to give wider route availability during WW2.

 

The LRM cast brass chimney is 7.2 mm and Graeme King's resin chimney is 7.6 mm so that is pretty close to what it should be for the 1920s-30s. I know we're talking fractions of a mm but when you look at the photos they seem taller than the information tells us so we don't want to be fitting chimney's that are too short in my view.  

 

The short chimney in the photo above is for the WW2 and later period. There are good sectioned drawings of the J6 chimneys in John Crawley' s The London and North Eastern Railway in Focus 2001.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tony W  - I know it wasn't that long ago we had a debate on the j6 chimney here!

 

If only I could find the time to build my LRM and King J6s! Too many other modelling projects to do first! And in fact the King J6 was originally going to be converted to a J1 but now I hear that Frank Davies is doing an etched brass J1 for Clayton I think I'll wait and hopefully be able to get one from LRM in due course.

 

Andrew

 

So wait what are things called behind the dome? I’m so confused.

 

I ended up finding what they are out of a bunch of bits I got off eBay. So she is now fitted correctly as the photo shows. Regarding chimneys, again, the one I have placed on the loco is the one that looks the most similar to the photo of the engine in buikding, so I’m going to keep it. 

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Hi Jesse, the parts on top of the firebox in front of the cab, but behind the dome are the safety valves. I'm not familiar with the J6, but I'm wondering if the mystery part you have left on the sprue could be a whistle, as I don't see one on your model.

Very well done with your build, great feeling when it moves successfully under its own power for the first time.

Congratulations,

 

                              John

 

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10 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Don't forget that in 1907 the gasworks were still pretty new and hadn't had time to deteriorate.

 

429292447_IMG_0513copy.JPG.7d177e712a1aa953cb3cfb1c144dd018.JPG

 

1048120468_IMG_0524copy.JPG.2331bb74135124a4a815700cd4734863.JPG

 

Yes they were new(ish) back then - good point. I remember making a TT gauge gasworks using an Airfix engine shed back in the 60's, using Peter Denny's photos in the Railway Modeler (The Denny Special) - a long time ago !!

 

Wigan (and other) gas works were living on borrowed time even in the early 60's as new "High pressure reforming plants" were built here in the North West (and elsewhere) using PFD (Petroleum Fuel Distillate) as feedstock. The four in the NW were at Liverpool, Warrington, Partington and Lostock Hall (Preston) - the last being rail connected receiving PFD by 100T rail tanks (from Stanlow). PFD pipelines (also from Stanlow) connected the others. Just as they went into production Natural Gas & conversion came along so those new plants also closed by 1975 or so. They made a substitute coal gas, so conversion to Natural gas was still needed - I could write a book about that !!

 

Brit15

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10 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Here's a bit more gas about the industry, that might help with modelling.

 

The late 60s/early 70s was a busy and hugely changing time for the gas industry with 'conversion' - the need to visit all homes with a gas supply to check and convert the appliances to burn natural gas - and the closure of towns gas works. The huge works at East Greenwich continued to produce a gas known as SNG (synthetic natural gas) which was stored in huge cylinders lying on their sides and one of the workers managed to build himself a concrete ocean going yacht there which had to be craned out of the works and on to the Thames. That'd make an interesting modelled scene - a concrete yacht in a gas works

 

There were often huge diameter pipes that, as well as not seeming to go anywhere, didn't even appear connected to anything. There seemed to be a lot at Aylestone Road, Leicester site (from what I remember when I worked/visited there) as well as here at Battersea:

 

27883149_Battersealatticeholder.jpg.20ba147d8fcc677835d302a847f2f855.jpg

 

Although many holders are now dismantled some have been protected by being listed. The one (No.13) at the Old Kent Road, although decommissioned, is grade II listed as it was once was the largest in the world. It was built in 1879-81, was 160ft tall with a diameter of over 210ft, could hold 5.5m cubic feet of gas and had 22 wrought iron standards (columns).

   

Good news that a holder is to be preserved, horrible things to climb / work on.

 

The pipework compound in your photo is typical - though here undergoing  decommissioning. The pipework here was low pressure / holder related rather than  high pressure. Such a site was quite common next to gas holders, though some were remote - so it would be quite OK to model a holder without the compound or even much pipework.

 

Some more gas works info, memories, photos here

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105787-railways-around-wigan-leigh-the-surrounding-areas/

 

Brit15

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All this talk of gas holders has reminded me that we still have one where I live albeit I wouldn't know the correct technical term for this type. Excuse the horrid quality picture but it is pinched from an on line source. The area in the foreground is now a car park, it used to be the site of the city Coal Gas Works. It never had any rail access.

 

599866649_ScreenShot2020-11-26at10_33_36.png.00c3fdbb0399710238d4b0f3ef17c7de.png

 

And this is the same area during redevelopment in the late 1970's. The major part of the gas works has gone, the area to the right of the gas holder is where the works were and is now the car park.

 

936506049_ScreenShot2020-11-26at10_45_39.png.dd251b81ddd52bf8cf35fc87a6c28f7d.png

Edited by Richard E
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18 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

   

Good news that a holder is to be preserved, horrible things to climb / work on.

 

 

Yes, I used to hear the stories in the changing rooms as many of the Metrogas football team I played for were gasholder maintenance engineers. Oddly, any of the staff on the OKR site could arrange for a guided trip up the large holder although I never went. But here's a recent account with pics of climbing it:  https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/gas-holder-13-old-kent-rd-south-london-june-2014.90418/

 

However, I did visit just about all the holder stations in the South East including Rochester, Ramsgate, Brighton and Southampton as well many around the country such as Swindon, Leicester, Stockport and Leeds. And we used to be able to get access to the famous Oval gasholder station to park when attending cricket matches at the Oval - the gas board had reserved seating/membership for the staff to use to 'entertain' clients. I just wish I'd taken photos.

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Brit70053 said:

Hi Jesse, the parts on top of the firebox in front of the cab, but behind the dome are the safety valves. I'm not familiar with the J6, but I'm wondering if the mystery part you have left on the sprue could be a whistle, as I don't see one on your model.

Very well done with your build, great feeling when it moves successfully under its own power for the first time.

Congratulations,

 

                              John

 

It's clear we're starting to confuse Jesse. 

 

The snifting valve is the small fitting directly behind the chimney - you've fitted that so end of story for that. Then there is the dome followed by the safety valves. As Tony G suggests it looks like the kit included two whistles instead of one and you have fitted those in place of the safety valves.

 

As you said earlier you need to look in the box for the safety valves. Plus you then need to fit one whistle at the front centre of the cab roof.

 

Andrew

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2 minutes ago, Richard E said:

All this talk of gas holders has reminded me that we still have one where I live albeit I wouldn't know the correct technical term for this type.

 

Looks like a partially above ground water tank, spiral guided type with two lifts, but I'm no expert - just an observer. My specialised product was domestic gas central heating.

 

 

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While we are talking about gas and the history of it. There is a collection of Gas holders around the Bow Locks/ Cody Dock area in East London. I believe that these are also listed. There is also a war memorial to gas workers that was moved here when one of the other gas works in East London was demolished. A cast plate on one of the structures has a date of 1872,

DSC_0173.JPG.873cfb4864d553960b5a5c25ae9a2528.JPGDSC_0172.JPG.0e702cf5adb6f1567b026ddf0c87529e.JPG

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31 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

It's clear we're starting to confuse Jesse. 

 

The snifting valve is the small fitting directly behind the chimney - you've fitted that so end of story for that. Then there is the dome followed by the safety valves. As Tony G suggests it looks like the kit included two whistles instead of one and you have fitted those in place of the safety valves.

 

As you said earlier you need to look in the box for the safety valves. Plus you then need to fit one whistle at the front centre of the cab roof.

 

Andrew

All of the above have been fixed, I’ll post a photo tomorrow morning. 

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3 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

It's clear we're starting to confuse Jesse. 

 

The snifting valve is the small fitting directly behind the chimney - you've fitted that so end of story for that. Then there is the dome followed by the safety valves. As Tony G suggests it looks like the kit included two whistles instead of one and you have fitted those in place of the safety valves.

 

As you said earlier you need to look in the box for the safety valves. Plus you then need to fit one whistle at the front centre of the cab roof.

 

Andrew

Thanks Woodcock29, perhaps I should have said " the parts-----should be the safety valves".  When I've looked at an enlargement of Jesse's picture the items fitted do indeed seem to be whistles, which blows my idea that the unidentified part on the whitemetal sprue could be a whistle.

I might have known better than try to help with my 666th post on RMWeb, (no I'm not superstitious) especially on this esteemed thread, but still, its a fine effort by Jesse and I'm sure he'll soon be posting photos of the model with all these items correctly located . 

 

Regards,

 

                 John

Edited by Brit70053
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2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Lovely little locos the J6, both the prototype & Tony's model(s). I wonder did any get across the Pennines to work on the (ex) LNER / Cheshire Lines ?

 

Brit15

 

Yes they did pre-Woodhead electrification at least.  If you look at the Shed Bash uk website you'll see the odd one still popping up at Trafford Park/Gorton in the 1940s and early 1950s. For example, in 1950 Colwick would occasionally still use one of its J6s instead of the usual J39 on the 8.22 pm Deansgate-Colwick goods (a service running in part via ex-Midland metals making use of former GN running powers).  64194 and 64212 were recorded by the signalman at Didsbury.  E.M. Johnson's Manchester Central book has an example of a J6 working on the Glazebrook-Godley route (3610 in 1946 on its way to Liverpool) having come over Woodhead.

 

Simon

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10 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Ah, OK, that's sounds like a pretty comprehensive re-working. It didn't occur to me to look at separating the body and floor and it looked like such a solid piece but I can see how that would have allowed for a much better roof situation: thanks for the details Graeme. If I build another one I'll follow that scheme...

The bodies and floors come as separate parts for the six-wheelers, but with no provision for attaching one to the other by anything more than the location of the body sides/ ends in a rebate around the edges of the floor, presumably intended for permanent gluing. I made arrangements for discreet use of small screws or plain "slide in, slide out" pins in the corners instead of using glue.

Is it all in one lump in the Howlden bogie vehicles?

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3 hours ago, gr.king said:

The bodies and floors come as separate parts for the six-wheelers, but with no provision for attaching one to the other by anything more than the location of the body sides/ ends in a rebate around the edges of the floor, presumably intended for permanent gluing. I made arrangements for discreet use of small screws or plain "slide in, slide out" pins in the corners instead of using glue.

Is it all in one lump in the Howlden bogie vehicles?

Ah - that explains it then - I assumed the floor and body were all one piece as yes, they are in the bogie vehicles - here's a pic of the kit as it was before assembly:

1702508239_MousaGNRD12920200814(1).jpg.49693d93773a3096f153298b5100bfa9.jpg

What kind of interior do you get for the 6-wheelers then, and how is it fitted?

I spent time this evening repainting the cornice/gutter strip in teak (and re-doing the same areas on the Mike Trice ECJS 6-wheel brake, where I'd made the same mistake). Once I'd done them I realised how much more correct and smart they looked and wondered how I'd missed that, as it's quite a prominent feature: thanks again for pointing it out!

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Chas you beat me to it, pointing out that the BB bogie Howldens had the interior/body printed as one.

 

Given BB is redoing these I quite expect the base of the seats will be on the floor and the backs/partitions in the body like the 6-wheelers.

 

Andrew

Edited by Woodcock29
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6 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Here's a glimpse of my finished six wheelers and an indication of one of the ways in which I attached the bodies to the floors, separably.

 

A neat solution Graeme.  Did you make provision for future access to the interior and, if so, how?

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Tony

 

I've just read the latest Engine Shed from Hornby which shows liveried versions of the A2/2s and A2/3s. I realise these aren't final but it looks to me like they've mixed up the boilers on 60501 and 60505.

 

Andrew

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2 hours ago, teaky said:

A neat solution Graeme.  Did you make provision for future access to the interior and, if so, how?

The voids under the seats are accessible from below, in the corners of the floor structure, so the pins can be pushed back out just as they can be pushed in.

Where there's a brake or luggage compartment, the floor is instead solid and there are obviously no seat bases. In those cases I glued plastic blocks securely in the lower corners of the body and put screws up through the floor. A mental note not to tighten the screws like an angry gorilla is required, but that should be obvious in a plastic model anyway.

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17 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Ah - that explains it then - I assumed the floor and body were all one piece as yes, they are in the bogie vehicles - here's a pic of the kit as it was before assembly:

1702508239_MousaGNRD12920200814(1).jpg.49693d93773a3096f153298b5100bfa9.jpg

What kind of interior do you get for the 6-wheelers then, and how is it fitted?

I spent time this evening repainting the cornice/gutter strip in teak (and re-doing the same areas on the Mike Trice ECJS 6-wheel brake, where I'd made the same mistake). Once I'd done them I realised how much more correct and smart they looked and wondered how I'd missed that, as it's quite a prominent feature: thanks again for pointing it out!

I'm interested to know when you purchased the kit. I have had a number of these on pre-order from mousa models since Feb 18 but alas no sign of them being available in the near future

Dave

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