robertcwp Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 On 24/12/2020 at 16:22, t-b-g said: Things like the BR P2 and the LNER livery locos were very much "Rule 1" things. At least he never tried to pass them off as genuine although he did like to run the P2 around to see if visitors clocked that it wasn't an A4 or W1. He liked to have something that would raise a smile, like Rastus. or Thomas. Don't forget the Deltic on a set of Mark 2d stock that was sent round the layout at around a scale 150 mph. It remained on the track too! Didn't Roy also do an EM 'Gordon' - presumably for his grandson Dylan? Different people notice different things about models that might be improved and everyone has their own level of tolerance, or not, for things that are not quite right. Almost all model railways are in a state of continuous improvement to some degree. Some of Roy's carriage formations were not as accurate as they might have been but time is always scarce so compromises would have been made and I'm probably just about the only person who would have noticed. Recently, Hornby has helped out with a Mark 1 BSO which is much easier than building a kit. If Roy had been assembling trains such as the Heart of Midlothian now, I reckon he would have used them rather than a Bachmann BSK at one end and I now forget what was at the other. The HoM now has a BSO at each end, as it should for summer 1957. The Mark 1 RSO is more of a problem as there isn't one RTR and I suspect Roy simply never got round to building one. One day, that might be sorted too but who apart from me and Mark54 of this forum would know or notice (or be troubled by it) anyway? 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2020 27 minutes ago, robertcwp said: The Mark 1 RSO is more of a problem as there isn't one RTR and I suspect Roy simply never got round to building one. One day, that might be sorted too but who apart from me and Mark54 of this forum would know or notice (or be troubled by it) anyway? I would! Southern Pride do the sides in their etchmaster range. Dead easy kits to build too. I can't remember the exact formation by 1957, but in the early '50s the all mark 1 RFO/RK/RSO catering core was a distinctive part of the Heart of Midlothian. Andy 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, robertcwp said: Don't forget the Deltic on a set of Mark 2d stock that was sent round the layout at around a scale 150 mph. It remained on the track too! Didn't Roy also do an EM 'Gordon' - presumably for his grandson Dylan? The Deltic and rake of Mk2 coaches belonged to John Phillips, and would indeed hurtle at full tilt around the GN section and then onto the GC and back to the GN via Whisker Hill curve in excess of 160 scale mph; hence the "silly use only" switches at the back of the GC yard. Gordon and Thomas were converted by me when Dylan was born. Thomas had been my daughters and continues to amuse my granddaughter, as it was doing this afternoon! Pete 7 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 26, 2020 10 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Andy, I've heard of an iPhone, but that's all. It might amaze all readers on here (though I've probably mentioned it before) but I do have a mobile phone. It's 15 years old and is usually switched off. When I came to use it earlier this year my 'account' had been discontinued, since it was over a year since it had last been used! I have no wish to be 'glued' to any phone, in the manner of which I see so many these days. I think I upset one Aussie visitor here by telling him to switch the (insert sexual reference here) thing off, telling him to his face that I thought he was extremely rude, interrupting a meal prepared by Mo for him, our younger son and us by constantly referring to it and fiddling with it. Am I alone in this 'prejudice'? It wasn't Jesse, by the way. Tony. Tony You are not alone! I find the preoccupation that many people have with their "devices" is anti-social in the extreme and puts real barriers in the way of proper human interaction, whilst much of what is said or texted is garbage that just wouldn't get uttered in the absence of the technology. That said, one has to recognise that during times like the current pandemic, that same technology has made it possible for dialogues to continue that might otherwise have been impossible. Everything in moderation, perhaps? Tony 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 In case anyone (who's not already seen it) is interested, for a bit of festive fun I've set myself a 'build a coach in a day' challenge. Will be updates throughout the day on the Hills of the North thread in the Layout Topics area. I'll post an 'end of day' report on here this evening. 12 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 11 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Andy, I've heard of an iPhone, but that's all. It might amaze all readers on here (though I've probably mentioned it before) but I do have a mobile phone. It's 15 years old and is usually switched off. When I came to use it earlier this year my 'account' had been discontinued, since it was over a year since it had last been used! I have no wish to be 'glued' to any phone, in the manner of which I see so many these days. I think I upset one Aussie visitor here by telling him to switch the (insert sexual reference here) thing off, telling him to his face that I thought he was extremely rude, interrupting a meal prepared by Mo for him, our younger son and us by constantly referring to it and fiddling with it. Am I alone in this 'prejudice'? It wasn't Jesse, by the way. Regards, Tony. Tony I find mobile phones very useful, initially for business but increasingly for personal use. I used to have a Samsung but gave in for an iPhone as the rest of the family use it Like you I get a bit fed up with too many messages, I still resort to phoning back. The Face time facility can be exceptionally useful, even the doctor used it for a telephone consolation. No need for sat nav's anymore, the phone has it and can be used on foot as well when out walking Ever since I found the "find my car" facility stopped having the occasional dream of forgetting where I left the car The eBay app is extremely useful as is the RM web app Succumbed to an iPad 3 or 4 years ago, I don't use it that much, but its great for when on holiday, also yesterday 7 of us in 4 locations had a joint present opening session together Technology is great when used properly Happy new year 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 10 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: I would! Southern Pride do the sides in their etchmaster range. Dead easy kits to build too. I can't remember the exact formation by 1957, but in the early '50s the all mark 1 RFO/RK/RSO catering core was a distinctive part of the Heart of Midlothian. Andy Thanks, I have a Southern Pride RSO and did try it on Retford but it looked rather out of place in a train of Bachmann Mark 1s. I think a better match would be a Bachmann open second with SPM or Comet sides. I'm not sure if the SPM ones are still available. The window spacing makes a cut and shut of Bachmann ones difficult. The HoM would also benefit from a Mark 1 RK in place of the Thompson one it currently has, which gain could be Comet sides and bits on Bachmann or Hornby Mark 1s. That is probably the most likely route. By 1957, they could also be maroon, which would deal with any colour clash issues with the crimson and cream Bachmann ones either side. This is a medium-term project but something that I have in mind. Like many other East Coast trains, the HoM changed considerably in September 1957. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, LNER4479 said: In case anyone (who's not already seen it) is interested, for a bit of festive fun I've set myself a 'build a coach in a day' challenge. Will be updates throughout the day on the Hills of the North thread in the Layout Topics area. I'll post an 'end of day' report on here this evening. What a splendid day's project, Graham. I look forward to seeing it completed! Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 12 hours ago, robertcwp said: Don't forget the Deltic on a set of Mark 2d stock that was sent round the layout at around a scale 150 mph. It remained on the track too! Didn't Roy also do an EM 'Gordon' - presumably for his grandson Dylan? Different people notice different things about models that might be improved and everyone has their own level of tolerance, or not, for things that are not quite right. Almost all model railways are in a state of continuous improvement to some degree. Some of Roy's carriage formations were not as accurate as they might have been but time is always scarce so compromises would have been made and I'm probably just about the only person who would have noticed. Recently, Hornby has helped out with a Mark 1 BSO which is much easier than building a kit. If Roy had been assembling trains such as the Heart of Midlothian now, I reckon he would have used them rather than a Bachmann BSK at one end and I now forget what was at the other. The HoM now has a BSO at each end, as it should for summer 1957. The Mark 1 RSO is more of a problem as there isn't one RTR and I suspect Roy simply never got round to building one. One day, that might be sorted too but who apart from me and Mark54 of this forum would know or notice (or be troubled by it) anyway? Good morning Robert, WMRC used to run the HoM on Stoke Summit, made by and from his own kits by Dave Lewis. Didn't it have one of the Cravens' prototype Mk.1s in it? Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Robert, WMRC used to run the HoM on Stoke Summit, made by and from his own kits by Dave Lewis. Didn't it have one of the Cravens' prototype Mk.1s in it? Regards, Tony. It might well have done but I thought that was after the summer 1957 timetable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 minute ago, robertcwp said: It might well have done but I thought that was after the summer 1957 timetable. Ah, yes. Stoke Summit's time period (in 'steam' operation) was 1958 until 1962. I built the Thompson car for the Stoke HoM, the one (unclassed?) sporting a ladies' retiring room. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 26, 2020 (edited) Quick query, whilst the Mk1 RSO is "topical". What happened to the spare ones after the number of RKs was reduced? Would any possibly have ended up paired with RUs/RBs, or would they have just been treated as extra Open Seconds? John Edited December 26, 2020 by Dunsignalling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said: Quick query, whilst the Mk1 RSO is "topical", what happened to the spare ones after the number of RKs was reduced? Would any possibly have ended up paired with RBs, or would they have just been treated as extra Open Seconds? John I seem to remember a few ended up as ordinary Open Seconds on Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn trains, if I'm thinking of the right ones (2+1 seating rather than 2+2)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: Quick query, whilst the Mk1 RSO is "topical". What happened to the spare ones after the number of RKs was reduced? Would any possibly have ended up paired with RUs/RBs, or would they have just been treated as extra Open Seconds? John The original batch of RSOs (1000-1013) I think mostly remained as such, at least officially. They had loose dining seating. IIRC one became the Disco coach. They could be found running with an RB or RU, mostly not on the East Coast though as the ECML received a batch of RUOs with Commonwealth bogies in 1961 (same body shell as a TSO but loose seating). The WR had a larger allocation than other regions as they had five to run with their kitchen firsts. There were a few more RSOs (1014-7) which were essentially 48-seat open seconds with normal seating but restaurant branding. These were originally allocated to the Scottish Region but later migrated elsewhere. There were also 48-seat open seconds not branded as restaurant cars but used as such - mainly an LMR thing. This included 28 Mark 2s as well as Mark 1s. The issue with the original batch (1000-1013) is that, in common with the first 20 or so Mark 1 64-seat open seconds (thirds at the time of building) they lacked the middle door and had a more generous bay spacing than what became the standard arrangement with a middle door. This is an official photo of an RSO when new. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Headstock Posted December 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2020 (edited) Dia 45 BG update, whilst the 113 has been progressing through the paint shop, I've been fitting the scratch built roof to the dia. 45 van. A bit of rubbing down and fettling was required to get the right fit and shape, I'm now quite happy with the results. Here again, the dia. 45 BG diverges from the usual Gresley practice, the roof is steel rather than canvas over a wooden frame, it was ribbed were the steel plates that form the roof are jointed. I went off- piste as far as the kit instructions was concerned, with regard to the number and location of the joints and also the position of the roof torpedo ventilators. Another little quirk is that the dia. 45 has many more torpedo vents than the usual arrangement found on 61' 6'' BG's. Perhaps it was felt that a large steel box required more ventilation than the teak and later steel panelled BG's. This sort of diversity is what makes carriage models so fascinating to build. There were two batches of a total of thirty three dia. 45 BG's. Being of all steel construction, they weighed in at two tons heavier than the contemporary dia. 43 teak BG's. They were running alongside over sixty 61' 6'' teak BG's, with turnbuckle underframes and with fox bogies. In addition, there were thirty five later style steel panelled BG's, equipped with angle iron trussing and eight foot Gresley HD bogies. The type of BG that Hornby mangled a model of, was very much in the minority prior to the War. Though they came to dominate, most were built after 1939 and many were steel panelled and some had plywood panelling. It was important for the fit of the roof to replicate the harsh cut off were the roof meets the ends and also the rap round of the cornice. In teak BG's and the latter style steel panelled BG's, the continuation of the cornice follows the roof line. Finally finished and into the paint shop. The kit provides for a working gangway. Not necessary for my needs, as the gangways were not often in use. In addition, my prototype is noted as sealed in the CWN's, this was because it was carrying tobacco products from Nottingham to the Western region. I substituted Comet castings and etched end plates, esthetical they look much better. G 45 gets its Banana van livery. After the photo was taken, the underframes have been painted black and beech brown. A couple of days drying time and the body will be ready for teaking. The base coat is a more golden hue due to the different requirements of painting steel sided carriages teak. Edited December 26, 2020 by Headstock A couple of tweaks. 16 1 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 (edited) I almost forgot, at last, I wrangled this Thompson NG third through the paint shop. The usual crimson gloss varnish paint mix. Edited December 26, 2020 by Headstock delete unwanted letter. 13 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 17 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Andy, I've heard of an iPhone, but that's all. It might amaze all readers on here (though I've probably mentioned it before) but I do have a mobile phone. It's 15 years old and is usually switched off. When I came to use it earlier this year my 'account' had been discontinued, since it was over a year since it had last been used! I have no wish to be 'glued' to any phone, in the manner of which I see so many these days. I think I upset one Aussie visitor here by telling him to switch the (insert sexual reference here) thing off, telling him to his face that I thought he was extremely rude, interrupting a meal prepared by Mo for him, our younger son and us by constantly referring to it and fiddling with it. Am I alone in this 'prejudice'? It wasn't Jesse, by the way. I think your photography is fine. It's clear enough for all to see, so carry on, please. As a one-time professional photographer, I had to invest in some pretty powerful kit and it's been a great (and continuing) asset. It's not all 'win', however. Close inspection of my new J6 will reveal she's a little down at the nose (only noticed by taking a picture). Even greater inspection of the new V2 will reveal she's a little up at the nose (like her sister). As a cautionary tale, may I suggest that after weighting (substantially in my case) the 3D-printed V2 bodies, do not leave them resting on their front steps and rear frames? Mine have sagged a bit in the middle over the time Geoff was painting them. Leave them on their frames! By screwing them up tightly, I hope they'll sag back, though it's not too bad. As mentioned, though I can take camcorder footage, I don't have the know-how to edit it, nor post it on here. At the moment, Tom Foster is doing that. Thanks Tom. Regards, Tony. Tony, I don't think you can blame Apple for people's misuse of their products! I agree that such antisocial behaviour is very frustrating. I'm battling with my kids at the moment over their excessive use of their phones. In particular I've had to ban them at the dinner table. I did have a spell of being a keen amateur photographer and I have a Nikon D80 DSLR. But I find it doesn't cope with the low light on the model railway nearly as well as the iPhone. So unless I want a telephoto shot or a large depth of field, I tend to use the iPhone. As for processing camcorder footage, I wouldn't know where to start either. Apple make it so easy by including the software with the phone, so provided it's shot on the iPhone, I can just use the Apple software and it's very straightforward. Regards Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 26, 2020 Author Share Posted December 26, 2020 22 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said: Tony, I don't think you can blame Apple for people's misuse of their products! I agree that such antisocial behaviour is very frustrating. I'm battling with my kids at the moment over their excessive use of their phones. In particular I've had to ban them at the dinner table. I did have a spell of being a keen amateur photographer and I have a Nikon D80 DSLR. But I find it doesn't cope with the low light on the model railway nearly as well as the iPhone. So unless I want a telephoto shot or a large depth of field, I tend to use the iPhone. As for processing camcorder footage, I wouldn't know where to start either. Apple make it so easy by including the software with the phone, so provided it's shot on the iPhone, I can just use the Apple software and it's very straightforward. Regards Andy Thanks Andy, I don't think I was blaming the phone manufacturers. In the same way I don't think anyone can blame car-makers for how badly some people drive, though whether the same could be said about those who manufacture firearms, I don't know. A car is not made as a lethal weapon, but a gun is. Still, that's a long way from model railways. As for cars being potentially lethal, that's one of the reasons why I sold my TVR, though I now drive one of Ford's fastest 'standard' cars. Again, however, nothing to do with model railways. Both DSLRs I use (a Nikon D3 and a Nikon Df) seem excellent in low-light conditions, though I use neither in automatic mode for any of their functions (auto-focus can be bamboozled in low-light conditions). The D3 is a bit superannuated these days (it's over 12 years old), but I cannot justify shelling out near 5K (or maybe more) for a current Nikon replacement. Both use exactly the same lenses, of course. Pulses of powerful fill-in flash assist in lifting any shadow areas, though I'm fortunate inasmuch as Little Bytham enjoys excellent lighting at source. I thought phone cameras give excellent depth of field because their lenses are so small, though, never having used one (I cannot get on with weeny cameras of any kind) I don't know from personal experience. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 6 hours ago, robertcwp said: Thanks, I have a Southern Pride RSO and did try it on Retford but it looked rather out of place in a train of Bachmann Mark 1s. I think a better match would be a Bachmann open second with SPM or Comet sides. I'm not sure if the SPM ones are still available. The window spacing makes a cut and shut of Bachmann ones difficult. The HoM would also benefit from a Mark 1 RK in place of the Thompson one it currently has, which gain could be Comet sides and bits on Bachmann or Hornby Mark 1s. That is probably the most likely route. By 1957, they could also be maroon, which would deal with any colour clash issues with the crimson and cream Bachmann ones either side. This is a medium-term project but something that I have in mind. Like many other East Coast trains, the HoM changed considerably in September 1957. Robert, I agree that the pre coloured Southern Pride sides look out of place with Bachmann Mk1s. I still have a few of those but I won’t buy any more. However, I was talking about the etched brass sides which they do and which I used on my RSO. I think they stand comparison with Bachmann coaches provided they’re painted well. I used SP for the ends/ roof/ chassis but a Bachmann donor would do the job equally well. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Andy, I don't think I was blaming the phone manufacturers. In the same way I don't think anyone can blame car-makers for how badly some people drive, though whether the same could be said about those who manufacture firearms, I don't know. A car is not made as a lethal weapon, but a gun is. Still, that's a long way from model railways. As for cars being potentially lethal, that's one of the reasons why I sold my TVR, though I now drive one of Ford's fastest 'standard' cars. Again, however, nothing to do with model railways. Both DSLRs I use (a Nikon D3 and a Nikon Df) seem excellent in low-light conditions, though I use neither in automatic mode for any of their functions (auto-focus can be bamboozled in low-light conditions). The D3 is a bit superannuated these days (it's over 12 years old), but I cannot justify shelling out near 5K (or maybe more) for a current Nikon replacement. Both use exactly the same lenses, of course. Pulses of powerful fill-in flash assist in lifting any shadow areas, though I'm fortunate inasmuch as Little Bytham enjoys excellent lighting at source. I thought phone cameras give excellent depth of field because their lenses are so small, though, never having used one (I cannot get on with weeny cameras of any kind) I don't know from personal experience. Regards, Tony. My D80 gets very grainy when I try to take photos on long timed exposures with high F numbers. The iPhone is great at depth of field when I take high level ‘helicopter’ shots. But when I try to get low angles the camera often focuses on the front of the loco and the back of the train is out of focus. There’s no manual focus control. If anyone has any tips to get round this, I’d love to hear from them. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said: Robert, I agree that the pre coloured Southern Pride sides look out of place with Bachmann Mk1s. I still have a few of those but I won’t buy any more. However, I was talking about the etched brass sides which they do and which I used on my RSO. I think they stand comparison with Bachmann coaches provided they’re painted well. I used SP for the ends/ roof/ chassis but a Bachmann donor would do the job equally well. Andy Evening Andy, what a shame! I like your RSO, I find that the stuff that you are making yourself, really elevates your depiction of the East coast mainline above the average. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, Headstock said: Evening Andy, what a shame! I like your RSO, I find that the stuff that you are making yourself, really elevates your depiction of the East coast mainline above the average. Thanks for your comments on my depiction of the ECML. What do you mean by ‘what a shame’? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 47 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said: Thanks for your comments on my depiction of the ECML. What do you mean by ‘what a shame’? A shame that you have used a product that you won't be using again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said: Robert, I agree that the pre coloured Southern Pride sides look out of place with Bachmann Mk1s. I still have a few of those but I won’t buy any more. However, I was talking about the etched brass sides which they do and which I used on my RSO. I think they stand comparison with Bachmann coaches provided they’re painted well. I used SP for the ends/ roof/ chassis but a Bachmann donor would do the job equally well. Andy I was referring to an etched one: P1020651_edited small by Robert Carroll, on Flickr This was a carriage I built with printed sides in the 1990s and Brian Kirby rebuilt with etched sides. The overall shape did not match very well with a Bachmann Mark 1 and the maroon is brighter than that on the old Thompson RK that Roy had in the set, which I think dates back to Highdyke days nearly 40 years ago. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 26, 2020 42 minutes ago, Headstock said: A shame that you have used a product that you won't be using again. Fair enough. They’re good products to produce a coach that isn’t available RTR quickly. But I think the etched sides produce a better final result. I’d certainly use the etched sides again. Indeed I have some Cravens mk 1 prototypes in the to build pile. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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