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11 minutes ago, Major Clanger said:

Whoever was asking about chain (for wagon loads) a good few pages back: I can get it made down to a link size of 1 3/4" and various sizes upwards. Finish would be either black, dull copper or possibly even rust depending on the outcome of experiments. So if someone can discover what the size is, away we go...

It was @Headstock Andrew

 

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10 hours ago, jrg1 said:

Definitely-his Scottish Photographs are superb.  HR 103 at Dalnaspidal is an especial favourite.  Books I would nominate are Fenman's Images of Steam, Colin Walker's record of the GCR and Eric Bruton's BR steam.

 

Images of Steam was my first real railway book, very expensive at 63/- so it was a Christmas present in 1968 but inspirational photography for its time. Still on my bookshelf today.

 

The next book that really showed the gritty side of steam was Steam  Portfolio introducing Dunnett, Hocquard, Hoyle, Krause, Lesley Nixon and John Vaughan a. school prize for my younger brother but so utterly different in object and style of photography but much closer to the railways Knew best at the time. Once again still on the bookshelf, but the power of the photography never diminishes.

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2 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

Definitely not just a Saltley thing. For example there are a number of E R Morten photos in the early 50s showing Kirkby-in-Ashfield's 48379 with a painted smokebox. See for example this 1952 view on the late David Hey's site:

 

37085d38e3384977ecfd28bb66aa1889.jpg

 

Painted smokebox doors to try and cover the burnt doors (not always successfully) seemed to be a feature on ex-NER locos, particularly towards the end of NE steam. For example (Mike Morant collection):

Former NER, raven Q6 class 0-8-0 no. 63357 shunts at Tyne Dock goods yard on an unspecified date in 1963. Note the locomotive turntable at the left of the shot. 63357 was a Consett allocated loco from 1943 until withdrawal in May 1965. [H. C. Casserley / Mike Morant collection]

 

To avoid causing t-b-g to end up sobbing quietly in a corner I won't share photos of the large boilered Robinson GCR locos that often just had the bottom third or so repainted to cover over the burnt portion of the smokebox door towards the end of their lives. The paint line is obvious in many photos, but it's not often modelled.

 

Simon

 

 

I appreciate your concern but I can take it! I did start out modelling the 1957/8 period and my early models were in true "grot" condition including a burnt smokebox door on a J6 and an N5 that looked as though it was about to fall to bits.

 

Then I noticed how many others were doing just the same period and decided to try something different.

 

So I have nothing against seeing real locos or models in a run down state. I just choose to not finish mine like that.

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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I’ve been tasked by @St Enodocof this parish to improve my running in boards on Gresley Jn. I watched the video of Little Bytham this morning and was taken by the running in boards / station nameboards at the ends of the platform which look just like many of the ones on the southern end on the GN (unsurpringly!). Can I ask how you made them?

 

Andy

Good afternoon, Andy,

 

Ian Wilson made the bespoke running-in station name boards for Little Bytham. 

 

I'm sure he'll make you some (at a modest price). Presumably GRESLEY JUNCTION? And/or JUNCTION FOR.........?

 

Ian also made the supports (in plastic/wire). I assume you'll make those yourself? 

 

How many?

 

Regards,

 

Tony

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1 hour ago, Major Clanger said:

Whoever was asking about chain (for wagon loads) a good few pages back: I can get it made down to a link size of 1 3/4" and various sizes upwards. Finish would be either black, dull copper or possibly even rust depending on the outcome of experiments. So if someone can discover what the size is, away we go...

 

Thanks for the information,

 

that may prove to be very interesting.

 

Part of the problem with size, is that the chain needs to have a stretched link, sometimes called a paper clip link. Railway modelers seem to use what is called cable chain, which is a completely different type. Cable chain looks way overscale, if you have the same number of links as in a length of paperclip chain. If it is the right width, then there are far too many links. If you ask around the model railway community, you just get a blank looks. I don't think anybody has really looked that closely at the prototype. The relevant information on chain size may have been lost or if it exists, it is currently of limits due to the pandemic. The latter also makes it harder when you can't get your hands on a product, or see it in the flesh. I'm currently in discussion with nautical modelers, who are very knowledgeable on the subject.

 

Examples of paperclip link chain on a loaded steel carrier and on an official drawing.

 

 

Bol33 (2).jpg

Loads one.jpg

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A request, please.............

 

I'm assisting Irwell in writing captions/additions to captions for the forthcoming 'Book of The B17s'. Most, I can add my scribblings to, but this one has me beaten. 

 

2836.jpg.d879d4d752c5c53167c111de896ac470.jpg

 

Apologies for my poor-quality scan, but I hope it shows the train well enough (which is what I'm asked to comment on).

 

The shot was taken in July 1932 and it shows a Down express at Stratford. 

 

The first two vehicles look like six-wheelers (the leading one a clerestory). Anyone know what they are? 

 

The third car looks like a newish Gresley, but with three doors on the corridor side (assuming it's gangwayed - it might not be) I'm puzzled as to what it is. Were GE line Gresley 'shorties' being built in 1932? 

 

The fourth/fifth cars? And the sixth?

 

Any assistant greatly appreciated.

 

You'll be mentioned in dispatches. 

Edited by Tony Wright
to add something
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51 minutes ago, johndon said:

One of the Q6s that we run on South Pelaw has the characteristic rust staining on the smokebox door (photo by Tony Lambert):

 

Q6.jpg.753a5ed8f5cd0d505a3d466053f62490.jpg

 

 

 

I do like a used and abused Q6.

 

1973347809_20201122_1438572.jpg.41fe3a96d408fe08d36408c2d35e6fd2.jpg

Simon

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1 hour ago, JamieR4489 said:

Is the third coach a D140 52'6" FK? 7 were built between 1928 and 1931 with 2 being allocated to Cromer sets.

 

Jamie

I don't know Jamie,

 

Hence my question. 

 

It's the six-wheelers which are the most-interesting. Could they be ex-GE? 

 

Someone out there must know. Jonathan? Graeme, Graham? Andrew? Please...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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6 wheelers look GE to me based on depth of panels around the waist and at cantrail level, as well as the shape of the roof on the leading clerestoried vehicle, but Jonathan and no doubt others know much more about those than I do. What little I know is an accidental discovery from my attempts to find out more about LDECR six-wheelers!

Looking at the fairly shallow panel depth at waist level and the visible joints on the outside of the roof, surely that third vehicle is NER design, although evidently on Gresley bogies. I don't know if that means it was built for the NER, or was perhaps an early post-grouping item always destined for the GE section.

GE bogie vehicles behind those I suspect.

Edited by gr.king
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The first two vehicles are of Great Eastern origin, and the third is indeed of North Eastern design.  It looks to be one of the eight  53'  6" corridor composites built at York shortly after grouping for service on the GE section.

 

The rest of the train is a little difficult to make out, but the next two coaches look to be GE 50' TKs, and the one after that a GE catering car.

 

D

Edited by Darryl Tooley
for clarity
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Hi Tony, looking back through your pictures of the weathered locos (page 2201) and the piccies of 60056 and 60112 caught my eye - are they the same collection of coaches behind the two locos?  I ask as they both have ex-Coronation/West Riding Kitchen Third-Third twins behind the tender, showing the cut-back condition of the skirts, but before acquiring any extra doors.

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21 minutes ago, gr.king said:

surely that third vehicle is NER design

Having had a closer look (I was on my phone earlier) I can see that the panelling isn't at all Gresley-esque so ignore my suggestion of a D140

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Corridor composite E63765E.  There were a number of carriages to NER design built for the GE section (and elsewhere) shortly after grouping, but as far as I can see only these CKs match the door and window spacing of the third vehicle in the photograph of 2836.

 

1190228756_Scan_20181221(64).jpg.abbca77ed6cb78b0e734233ef689a737.jpg

(Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society)

 

 

D

Edited by Darryl Tooley
for clarity
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43 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

The rest of the train is a little difficult to make out, but the next two coaches look to be GE 50' TKs, 

 

I think the first of that pair must be a composite - one fewer compartments and more widely spaced at the leading end. I think it matches the diagram given on the GER Soc website, type 13A.

Edited by Compound2632
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Tony,

 

There's a Skype call set up for Friday evening for which this is ideal material - leave it with me and I'll see whether we can expand on what Darryl and others have already said.  

 

I believe etches for those very handsome NER diagrams may be in the offing.

 

As an aside, Dr Ian C Allen recalls doing 80 mph in one of those 6 wheelers in the early 1930s and that it was a memorable experience.   Journeys were much more of an adventure then.

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

A request, please.............

 

I'm assisting Irwell in writing captions/additions to captions for the forthcoming 'Book of The B17s'. Most, I can add my scribblings to, but this one has me beaten. 

 

2836.jpg.d879d4d752c5c53167c111de896ac470.jpg

 

Apologies for my poor-quality scan, but I hope it shows the train well enough (which is what I'm asked to comment on).

 

The shot was taken in July 1932 and it shows a Down express at Stratford. 

 

The first two vehicles look like six-wheelers (the leading one a clerestory). Anyone know what they are? 

 

The third car looks like a newish Gresley, but with three doors on the corridor side (assuming it's gangwayed - it might not be) I'm puzzled as to what it is. Were GE line Gresley 'shorties' being built in 1932? 

 

The fourth/fifth cars? And the sixth?

 

Any assistant greatly appreciated.

 

You'll be mentioned in dispatches. 

 

Could the first coach be a D413 lavatory 3rd?

 

14600-413.jpg.85368a8ceae48e3765c9e952e6a5f8c1.jpg

 

or D423:

 

14600-423.jpg.80ed9de0c58b38c58b3774702ada0298.jpg

 

The second coach looks to be a 6 compartment 6 wheeler - I can find several possible diagrams for that, including:

 

D314 2nd (originally built as 3rd)

 

14600-314E.jpg.c59f2d192cffd09d4e1894ea3c88c503.jpg

 

D404 3rd:

 

14600-404E.jpg.44aa46673588de9e52b783ae492094bb.jpg

 

D422 3rd:

 

14600-422.jpg.ef7883c6f1304faffca3afb70bbfaf2b.jpg

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon, Andy,

 

Ian Wilson made the bespoke running-in station name boards for Little Bytham. 

 

I'm sure he'll make you some (at a modest price). Presumably GRESLEY JUNCTION? And/or JUNCTION FOR.........?

 

Ian also made the supports (in plastic/wire). I assume you'll make those yourself? 

 

How many?

 

Regards,

 

Tony

I’m sorry Tony, I should have been clearer. I actually have the printed running in boards (from Scalescenes) which I can print as often as I like. It’s the posts and frame that I need to replace my rudimentary matchsticks as shown below.

 

E0506541-566F-4D40-946D-FDBA29FE2D86.jpeg.7ae59d2bf0579b69f4c7bccdfb3128ba.jpeg

 

If Ian scratch built them then I guess I’ll have to do the same. I was hoping there was a kit for them!

 

Andy

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4 hours ago, johndon said:

Q6.jpg.753a5ed8f5cd0d505a3d466053f62490.jpg

 

 

 

Forgot to mention that the photo I posted is also notable as it shows the only completed example I've ever seen of the Modern Outline Kits Class 40, built by Martin Lloyd.

 

 

Edited by johndon
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Circling round to weathering and the discussion morphing into pregrouping carriages. I happily weathered the dubdee but later Tony has admonished me for my pristine gcr carriages. I thought about it as I applied the second colour to this.

E74D97F1-7F39-4A05-BABE-4E03395DC013.jpeg.5886822ee63bf37dec11f1ab3b7fa2b3.jpeg

now it needs cleaning up and between another 2 and 4 colours need to be applied to the side depending on how precise I want it,( up against what I am capable of doing). After all that I am not sure I want to hide it all behind grot. Even Tony admits to tempering weathering on a professional paint job. Now I know this is professional but it is taking a lot longer than rattle can of maroon and fox transfer for the lining. Might explain why pregrouping layouts mostly are portrayed as quite clean. Though you will be pleased to know Tony that this will get a sooty grey roof. Though some being built alongside it in French grey and brown will get white roofs........sorry.

richard 

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Hi Tony.

 

I have several Comet chassis locos awaiting finishing. All are good runners, EM gauge, solid chassis, Markits wheels apart from the 4f which is Brassmasters chassis and Ultrascales.

The jinties and J39 have Portescaps, all need sandboxes and sandpipes to complete. I also have a comet standard 4 mogul, standard 5 and crab in similar condition. Ive tried your nickel silver pickups and im impressed with them.

Ill paint these when the weather is warmer.

 

My question is regarding sandboxes. What do you do?  I always wondered why Comet didnt include them.

 

9BC63778-3B48-402F-AC1C-7D18716EC0D2.jpeg.d2ccd3785ff4b0f2fc171a6c27e33889.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Hi Dylan,

 

It’s funny you should mention that as it was your birthday email to me yesterday with a special offer which made me examine your website and see that. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be right for many GN stations as they didn’t tend to have raise letters or such fancy framing. What I need is the frame like on the left in this screenshot from the video (sorry about the poor quality) onto which I can stick my printed boards. Do you have anything like that?

 

Andy

 

FA520BFF-ED52-4744-ACD2-32F0DE7D3721.jpeg.cafa1526922a1267546645e6049bc59d.jpeg

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