Wright writes.....

[LNER4479]

10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A question, please?

 

Does anyone know anything about the Corkickle soda ash trains operating in the NW? 

 

Many thanks in anticipation..................

Like this, you mean?

 

[Tony Wright]

17 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

There is a reason for all of this mindless waffle on the start of these videos, the youtube ad algorithm requires videos to have a minimum length in order to monetise them.  So naturally youtubers all pad out their videos to get over that limit. 

 

I tend to have a lot of automotive youtube on in the backdround (it kind of replicates the inane  background noise in the office), this week there was quite an interesting bust up around one person building a project car requesting a parts manufacturer pay him 25k plus a % of the profits of future sales for him to use their parts on his build.  When there's all these kinds of kickbacks going on it does rather make you doubt the impartiality of youtube reviews...  I wonder how  much of it goes on in the railway world (smaller values of course, but still...)

Of possible interest, Rich............

 

Most RTR products submitted for review are given 'freely'. In my time at BRM, I'd photograph them, write a review (which the product-maker would see before publication) and it would be published (along with a reply from the manufacturer, if thought necessary). 

 

The models would then be offered as prizes, donated to charities or I'd use them as guinea pigs for 'improving/renumbering/renaming/detailing/weathering/etc, after which the model would then be donated to whatever good cause; or, in a few cases, I'd retain it myself. 

 

As long as the suppliers thought they were given a 'fair' review, everyone was happy. 

 

In the case of kits, they'd arrive either at my home or at the office with a request to 'Please build and review this'. Obviously, these were time-sensitive and, usually within a month of receipt I'd built it and written the article. The kit-maker would see my findings before publication and had a right to reply. He/she would also get a full set of photographs which he/she could then use on boxes, in advertising and publicity material. I' often write the instructions as well. If a kit were so poor (very, very rare), I'd return it, stating that a review would be of little use to the magazine (though one could argue that it might be of use to readers!). On completion, I'd either keep the model or it would be subject to a raffle, as a prize in a competition or, in some cases, a sealed-bid auction, any monies made, then sent to charities. 

 

The system seemed to work very well. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

7 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Like this, you mean?

 

Thanks Graham,

 

Though the picture I've been shown has 'square'-looking wagons.

 

What were the workings, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[APOLLO]

Interesting points Tony, you are certainly an ECML "expert" in my eyes - as are many posters here. I class myself as average but expert at retrieving stuck O gauge Alco diesels from inaccessible  tunnels - that would have made an interesting YouTube blue movie last summer !!!

 

There are lots and lots of excellent videos on YouTube along with loads of dross, pick your subject it will (both kinds) be there. I have a bookmark folder named YouTube lists, with links to the video lists of subscribers I particularly like, very handy to find new videos from a liked poster.

 

As to "Social media", I suppose rmweb can be classed as such. I don't do / understand FaceBook, Twitter etc, just about OK with email - but the world unstoppably moves on, each to their own.

 

Anyway, fed up with someone unboxing a loco ? - Fed up of Lockdown ? How about some rides across the USA / Mexico Hobo style on a freight train. I recommend the Denver to Grand Junction one for stunning scenery. All in HD, very well photographed & edited and no narration, just the sound of wheels on rails.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8XCmWXE2J5dF7wXkzUVHtw/videos

 

Brit15

 

 

[TrevorP1]

37 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

There is a reason for all of this mindless waffle on the start of these videos, the youtube ad algorithm requires videos to have a minimum length in order to monetise them.  So naturally youtubers all pad out their videos to get over that limit. 

 

I tend to have a lot of automotive youtube on in the backdround (it kind of replicates the inane  background noise in the office), this week there was quite an interesting bust up around one person building a project car requesting a parts manufacturer pay him 25k plus a % of the profits of future sales for him to use their parts on his build.  When there's all these kinds of kickbacks going on it does rather make you doubt the impartiality of youtube reviews...  I wonder how  much of it goes on in the railway world (smaller values of course, but still...)

 

I rarely watch RTR reviews on YouTube, they just don't interest me. Most people with a little knowledge of their subject, be that model railways, cars etc know who the real experts are in that field. We know who the leaders in their field are on Wright Writes and a question on here will bring forth real knowledge gladly imparted. The snag is for folk who, possibly through no fault of their own or maybe sheer gullibility (is that a word?) rely on these videos for information.

 

If the automotive person is the one I am thinking of, I am lucky enough to be the owner of one of the cars he is about the ruin. It is a real drivers car and will become a future classic. The car in question was developed by several real world class experts in their field with huge experience. This chap is supposedly going to improve it by attempting to blag parts from someone else. The trouble is - if he gets away with it - he will be believed by his gullible following...

 

An old work colleague had an expression concerning folk like this. "Expert..? Thats a drip under pressure".

[Bucoops]

I have no problem with experts - sometimes you can learn a lot from them. Someone who thinks they know a lot about their given subject but actually don't (I include myself in this!( is NOT an expert.

 

A word has appeared over the last few years which applies to many of these YouTube "stars". Influencer. What a horrible word, but then I suppose you could define an "influencer" in the same way that you would define how a sheepdog works.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

What does the above show (if anything)? That I should get out more? That I'm on some spectrum regarding my state of mind?  

 

What it demonstrates is sharp observation combined with a profound knowledge of the subject. 

 

I'm reminded of the story of the man who wanted to learn about jade. He was put in touch with an elderly Chinese expert who agreed to weekly one-hour sessions at £50/hour, payment in advance for the term. At the first session, the expert took him into a room furnished with a single table and chair, handed him a piece of jade, then left the room, returning at the end of the hour. This was repeated week after week - since he'd paid, the man was reluctant to give up, though his frustration was mounting. Eventually at the last session he could stand it no longer. He flipped, started shouting at the elderly Chinese: "I've paid you £650 to teach me about jade and what have you taught me - nothing! A complete rip-off! A waste of time! And what's more, this piece is fake!"

Edited February 12, 2021 by Compound2632

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Graham,

 

Though the picture I've been shown has 'square'-looking wagons.

 

What were the workings, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I don't know directly, Tony - however, a quick Google around shows that there was a flow from Corkickle to Northwich and plenty of pictures similar to mine in the period 1966-1980. Presumably it went via Carlisle in order for it to be seen on the WCML over Shap?

 

Maybe that might prompt others to comment. Not sure about your 'square'-looking wagons.

 

EDIT - apparently, covered hopper wagons were also use to transport soda ash - that would be more of a 'square' wagon.

Edited February 12, 2021 by LNER4479

[johndon]

With regards to Sam whilst, personally, I can't get away with his style, and, as a P4 modeller building a layout of a prototype location, I'm as far away from his audience as you are likely to get but I'd offer the following comments:

 

1. I, and I suspect, the overwhelming majority of modellers posting in this thread in particular, are not his target audience.

 

2. I don't believe that he has ever professed to be an expert in any of the locomotives he looks at, nor does he point out inaccuracies, his reviews, from what I understand, concentrate on the build quality and running abilities of the model.

 

3. My best mate, having taken early retirement, is getting back in to model railways.  He just wants somewhere to run some of the stuff he and his dad have bought and he will, in all likely hood, end up building the archetypal 'train set'.  The more basic stuff that Sam does is right up his street and he is learning a lot about the models and the terminology.

 

4. Sam is a young lad who is, clearly, very interested in model railways, something to be encouraged surely?

 

John

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by johndon

[Paddy]

4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Noted. I just have a belief that this is not a modern phenomenon as such, just the current way of doing it. Accepted that we might not exactly be talking about the same thing!

Hi @LNER4479

 

I believe you are right but the major difference these days is that almost anyone can reach an audience of thousands with very little effort, comeback or sense of responsibility.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

[65179]

5 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

I don't know directly, Tony - however, a quick Google around shows that there was a flow from Corkickle to Northwich and plenty of pictures similar to mine in the period 1966-1980. Presumably it went via Carlisle in order for it to be seen on the WCML over Shap?

 

Maybe that might prompt others to comment. Not sure about your 'square'-looking wagons.

 

EDIT - apparently, covered hopper wagons were also use to transport soda ash - that would be more of a 'square' wagon.

 

There's a bit on the Wallerscote (Northwich)-Corkickle soda ash trains in this thread:

 

 

Covhops were used to take light soda ash from ICI's soda ash plant to the Albright & Wilson Marchon works just off the Cumbrian Coast route. This was well-known because the wagons reached the works via a rope worked incline, the Corkickle Brake (closed 1986 when the internal rail system at the works closed).

 

Link to thread with an 8F hauled covhop service in a video ( no comment on whether copyright was observed):

 

 

A few photos from the covhops thread showing these soda ash services (Flickr images)

 

Both from the KDH archive, 48640 at Carnforth on 4 February 1967

 

48631 at Hest Bank on 19 July 1967

 

Hope that helps 

 

Simon

Edited February 12, 2021 by 65179
Photo attribution and details added

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

I don't know directly, Tony - however, a quick Google around shows that there was a flow from Corkickle to Northwich and plenty of pictures similar to mine in the period 1966-1980. Presumably it went via Carlisle in order for it to be seen on the WCML over Shap?

 

Maybe that might prompt others to comment. Not sure about your 'square'-looking wagons.

 

EDIT - apparently, covered hopper wagons were also use to transport soda ash - that would be more of a 'square' wagon.

Thanks Graham,

 

 'covered hopper wagons were also use to transport soda ash - that would be more of a 'square' wagon.'

 

That's it! I wish I knew more about wagons........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Leander]

As far as I'm I'm aware it was conveyed in covered hopper wagons, 'Covhops' as made by Bachman. These two photos shoe Black 5s in charge of such trains in the mid 1960s. Both photos are by Arthur Kimber and have appeared on RMWeb previously. 45081 is hauling a 'self weighing tender'.

 

I used to see the Northwich to Whitehaven workings near Preston which ran in the afternoon. Pretty much anything could turn up on it, from Black 5s, to Crabs, 8Fs and WDs. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Leander
Typo

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

There's a bit on the Wallerscote (Northwich)-Corkickle soda ash trains in this thread:

 

 

Covhops were used to take light soda ash from ICI's soda ash plant to the Albright & Wilson Marchon works just off the Cumbrian Coast route. This was well-known because the wagons reached the works via a rope worked incline, the Corkickle Brake (closed 1986 when the internal rail system at the works closed).

 

Link to thread with an 8F hauled covhop service in a video ( no comment on whether copyright was observed):

 

 

A few photos from the covhops thread showing these soda ash services (Flickr images)

 

 

 

Hope that helps 

 

Simon

Thanks ever so much Simon,

 

And Pete (Leander).

 

What a fantastic resource this thread is............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, johndon said:

With regards to Sam whilst, personally, I can't get away with his style, and, as a P4 modeller building a layout of a prototype location, I'm as far away from his audience as you are likely to get but I'd offer the following comments:

 

1. I, and I suspect, the overwhelming majority of modellers posting in this thread in particular, are not his target audience.

 

2. I don't believe that he has ever professed to be an expert in any of the locomotives he looks at, nor does he point out inaccuracies, his reviews, from what I understand, concentrate on the build quality and running abilities of the model.

 

3. My best mate, having taken early retirement, is getting back in to model railways.  He just wants somewhere to run some of the stuff he and his dad have bought and he will, in all likely hood, end up building the archetypal 'train set'.  The more basic stuff that Sam does is right up his street and he is learning a lot about the models and the terminology.

 

4. Sam is a young lad who is, clearly, very interested in model railways, something to be encouraged surely?

 

John

 

 

Thanks John,

 

I'm inclined to agree, especially with points 1 and 2.

 

However,  if your best mate is to learn anything from Sam, it's surely not how to lay track (very badly) on the floor. Whatever the level of experience of a modeller, after he/she leaves the comfort of the nursery at a young (ish) age, surely the thing to do was a least mount his/her train set on a board, even if it were laid on the floor to start with?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[johndon]

24 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

However,  if your best mate is to learn anything from Sam, it's surely not how to lay track (very badly) on the floor. Whatever the level of experience of a modeller, after he/she leaves the comfort of the nursery at a young (ish) age, surely the thing to do was a least mount his/her train set on a board, even if it were laid on the floor to start with?

 

 

Absolutely and I will be helping him to make the 'train set' as good as it can be within the confines of probably an 8 * 4 board just so he can see his rolling stock running...

 

John

Edited February 12, 2021 by johndon

[APOLLO]

I remember the Soda Ash trains passing through Wigan, Covhops usually hauled by a Stanier 5, 8F of Standard 9F. Later they used the greeny blue tank wagons illustrated, hauled by EE Type 4's (Class 40) usually. Around 1970 I remember seeing one such Soda Ash tank train running north past Springs Branch, the last wagon seemed derailed and making a terrible din with ballast, smoke & sparks flying. We (dog & I) followed it quickly to where it stopped, half a mile away just on the canal bridge on the approach to Wigan NW. The train was all still in one piece and the fire brigade were quickly in attendance. No other trains around and no ambulances seen. No more trains for a while so we "went wom". Pity I didn't have my camera that day.

 

Brit15

[Daniel W]

17 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Tanks ever so much Simon,

 

And Pete (Leander).

 

What a fantastic resource this thread is............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have a quick question. What time period are we talking here, Tony? The LMS had a design of boxy wagons for carrying Soda Ash that usually ran sheeted. These likely would have been replaced by Covhops in the late 50's and early 60's.

 

 

[APOLLO]

Some more info re Soda Ash tanks here

 

 And info / photos re Corkickle Brake here

 

http://www.cumbria-railways.co.uk/corkickle_brake_whitehaven.html

 

Had a look at my Wigan area photos, none of these trains show up.

 

Brit15

[Andy Hayter]

43 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks John,

 

I'm inclined to agree, especially with points 1 and 2.

 

However,  if your best mate is to learn anything from Sam, it's surely not how to lay track (very badly) on the floor. Whatever the level of experience of a modeller, after he/she leaves the comfort of the nursery at a young (ish) age, surely the thing to do was a least mount his/her train set on a board, even if it were laid on the floor to start with?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

On point 1, I would disagree Tony.

 

There will be thousands out there that with ( a perceived) lack of space who will indeed be laying a circle of track on the carpet - and badly at that.  This may be for them, their lad (sorry not meant to be sexist) or their grand children (grandparents are less sexist and will happily run trains on the carpet for the grandkids of all ages and sexes.  these are exactly the people who will run random rakes of coaches - and perhaps a few PO wagons tagged on for good luck.

 

We as the upper echelons of the hobby should not forget where many start. 

 

If he tells such people that this model runs well or this one doesn't, that avoids disappointment in this the base layer of our hobby.  A portion of these are going to go to a local show (eventually) and learn how to get off the living room floor and what the rewards for so doing are..  However if they have all been put off model railways because the model they bought was a dog, then they are lost forever.  

[Leander]

18 hours ago, Daniel W said:

I have a quick question. What time period are we talking here, Tony? T

My  observations were between 1960 and 1968 and I do not recall seeing an LMS Soda Ash wagon. In fact I was completely unaware of them until I read Bob Essery's 'LMS Wagons' many years later. I always associated that traffic with Covhops. 

 

Another source of that traffic to Corkickle was the ICI works at Burn Naze near Fleetwood.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Leander
Correct spelling mistake

[Ravenser]

On 11/02/2021 at 10:42, Jesse Sim said:

May I offer a humble photo of ones modelling work these past few days?

 

One wagon finished, another two weathered and all ready to join the meat train. 
 

These three wagons are all of different material. The far left is Graeme King’s resin meat containers with scratchbuilt running gear, the middle one is a NER F10 insulated van downgraded to fish/meat duties, made from a Hornby wagon with scratchbuilt running gear and the other is a DS GCR perishables wagon. 
 

I am very happy with the way I’ve built and finished these off. 
 

I must say a big thankyou to Graeme King for supplying the meat containers, all four of them and Jonathan Wealleans who I have bombarded for the last how ever many months on how to build them, thanks fellas. 

 

 

May I politely enquire whether the Hornby F10 body is short of scale length and by how much? Not meant to criticise - my own efforts with it are shown below. I think it is either 1 or 2 mm short, and I took 1mm out of the wheelbase and made it 9'9" to fudge. (This was easy enough as I was using etched W-irons on a scratchbuilt chassis)

 

I don't have the relevant volume of the new Tatlow, as I'm basically a modern image modeller and this is about the only N ER wagon I'll ever build (I have the old 1 volume Tatlow and the new Vols 1 /4a/4b)  so my effort is a bit of a guesstimate. However it would be good to know how far I guessed right

 

 

[Chas Levin]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening David,

 

I strongly suspect that many of Sam's followers are five year olds, and probably not as bright as your son. 

 

I've no doubt that Youtube is popular and there are many followers of it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a 'good' thing all round. I admit to watching all of Sam's piece on the Hornby A2/2 (though I squirmed throughout it), but if anyone he 'influences' starts to believe that it's good practice to lay track very badly, on the floor, then perish the thought for their future development. Which responsible reviewer would assess a scale model's performance by running it over track laid on the floor? Fine, if it's a kid's clockwork or push-along train set (that's what they're designed for), but not this. I was staggered! 

 

Thanks for mentioning the Right Track DVDs (I'd like to think they were better-made and far more responsible than Sam's efforts), but the irony is they should not be on Youtube. Whoever put them on, acted illegal by infringing Activity Media's copyright. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Good evening Tony,

 

YouTube is like the entire internet in miniature, where misinformation and fake news jostle for attention with genuinely useful content, while copyright is left spluttering in the dust.

 

On the other hand, some of the things you can find on YouTube are absolutely astonishing, fascinating and - in my opinion - make the whole thing worth while. Pieces of film and musical performances that probably no more than a handful of people would ever have seen again are now freely available to everyone, with all the interest and cultural value they contain, so I'd like to suggest that these gems make up for the sometimes appalling dross that often surrounds them!

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Daniel W said:

I have a quick question. What time period are we talking here, Tony? The LMS had a design of boxy wagons for carrying Soda Ash that usually ran sheeted. These likely would have been replaced by Covhops in the late 50's and early 60's.

 

 

Good evening  Daniel,

 

The 1960s, towards the end of steam.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

On point 1, I would disagree Tony.

 

There will be thousands out there that with ( a perceived) lack of space who will indeed be laying a circle of track on the carpet - and badly at that.  This may be for them, their lad (sorry not meant to be sexist) or their grand children (grandparents are less sexist and will happily run trains on the carpet for the grandkids of all ages and sexes.  these are exactly the people who will run random rakes of coaches - and perhaps a few PO wagons tagged on for good luck.

 

We as the upper echelons of the hobby should not forget where many start. 

 

If he tells such people that this model runs well or this one doesn't, that avoids disappointment in this the base layer of our hobby.  A portion of these are going to go to a local show (eventually) and learn how to get off the living room floor and what the rewards for so doing are..  However if they have all been put off model railways because the model they bought was a dog, then they are lost forever.  

Good evening Andy,

 

Laying track on the floor is how I started (as a five year old). Originally, this was Hornby post-War tinplate, until, in 1952, I 'graduated' to Tri-ang OO. However, it wasn't too long before my dad made a 6' x 4' board for my brother and me to fix the track down on. Yes, for most of the time the board was still laid on the floor (young limbs don't suffer), and I'd be about eleven before the train set went around the walls of our spare room (Victorian houses tended to have such a 'luxury') supported by legs. This framework lasted a long time - long enough for the Tri-ang track to be replaced by Peco Streamline, and I thought myself then to be a 'scale' modeller (how deluded!). 

 

I don't have the slightest problem with folk running what they like, how they like. Where I am a bit 'twitchy' is where some folk then become 'celebrities', with potentially a fair bit of influence in the hobby, when what they're showing is clearly bad practice. By all means, point out that a model might be badly assembled (it doesn't matter how 'accurate' it might be at source, if it's badly put together it's no good), but please don't try to show its running capabilities by putting on to track resting on carpet. In no time at all, it'll be full of dust and fibres, rendering its performance dodgy at least. 

 

I think that's why I'm 'uncomfortable' with Sam's presentations. He's enthusiastic, speaks well (though, commonly, he doesn't know when to use 'fewer' instead of 'less') and his observations will be of use to many, I'm sure. But the minute we see the things running 'on the floor', I find credibility disappears. 

 

Right from my first learning times in railway modelling, all the advice (for the first-time-starters) was lay your track on a board of some kind. Cyril Freezer seemed to like 'Sundeala'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.