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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I find it astonishing that prototype locos which were not particularly successful and short-lived are now the subject of RTR models. The Fell diesel has been mentioned and also the 'Leader'. Still, Heljan did it with their one-off diesels. It must be something to do with a fascination for 'oddities'. 

 

I predict GT3 to be a great success....................

I agree.  The number of "prototypes" and small, unsuccessful classes now available RTR is incredible; I grew up wondering when a Class as numerous as the 47s would have an RTR model that actually looked like one.  The availability though, as I have said before, reflects the growth in collectors over builders of model railways; many, if not most of those purchased might never be run.  So many people don't have the time or space for a layout anyway (at least one of the size that interests them), but by not spending anything on construction, they can buy more locos....  As a manufacturer, to exploit this market trend while it lasts you would have to keep introducing new models, no matter how obscure the prototype.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Definitely a first!

 

170434691_GT304onlayout.jpg.d94d28339cc98084b66669373998c0bc.jpg

 

1424068160_GT305onlayout.jpg.3d97901e783f2f5058cc0a2e1c81fe5d.jpg

 

KR Models' GT3 arrived today for me to road test on Little Bytham.

 

Though it's DCC onboard, I was able to run it (not with every function, of course) and the sound worked. 

 

I have to say it's rather impressive, though I can't for the life of me recall if the sound is correct (it has a high-pitched whine). It used to work through Chester on test from Newton le Willows, but it was a long time ago.

 

I find it astonishing that prototype locos which were not particularly successful and short-lived are now the subject of RTR models. The Fell diesel has been mentioned and also the 'Leader'. Still, Heljan did it with their one-off diesels. It must be something to do with a fascination for 'oddities'. 

 

It ran superbly, and I've taken moving footage which will be seen soon on BRM digital. Andy York has written a full review for the next issue of BRM. 

 

I predict GT3 to be a great success....................

That's good to see, given some of the flak that has been directed at the manufacturer.

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I do find the marketing situation with the new model of GT3 a bit odd.  It was available for pre-order only, from a new manufacturer with no track record, at a time when a similar approach from another supplier had failed spectacularly.  No additional models of GT3 appear to have been produced by KR for open sale, for those who would like to have more confidence in the final product before making a purchasing decision.  GT3 is now hitting the model press, with multiple reviews in all the regular magazines... but nobody can actually go out and buy one off the shelf, from their usual retailers, or even from the manufacturer at this point in time.

 

A second production run is being proposed if there is a sufficient level of interest expressed to the manufacturer, but delivery will be some time in the future and it sounds like manufacturing hasn’t even commenced yet.

 

Whilst I can perhaps understand the manufacturers desire to test the water regarding level of interest before proceeding to production, from the customers perspective it is a very unsatisfactory way of going about things with the risk all being passed on to the consumer, and extensive market exposure completely being mis-matched with availability.  I can only hope that future manufacturers opting for this approach have sufficient faith in their product to order additional quantities to meet further demand once their product is realised and all the media exposure kicks in.

 

A missed opportunity I think, from an overly cautious supplier.  I do hope that this does not become the normal way forward for RTR products in the future.  

 

 

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Just about all modern production is in limited batch runs that make pre-ordering a necessity to avoid FOMO, especially when manufacturing quantity is tailored to them. If there was no large deposit or full pre-payment required then maybe placing a pre-order would be prudent. I can quite understand a new manufacturer being cautious about funding a large production run without any idea of sales demand. 

 

Edited by grahame
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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Has anyone out there built a model of GT3? 

Hello Tony

 

On the visit to LB where I met up with richard i as well as yourself, GT3 came up in the conversation and by chance it was in one the boxes of EMUs I had with me. You let me run it, I don't think anyone took a photo of it.

 

Guess what? It still isn't finished. Here it is running on my layout. As far as the two teachers who witnessed it running on LB are concerned, my homework is not completed because the cat ate my tools, sadly it died and needed to be flush down the toilet.

100_5174.JPG.81066dc20fb94653af224f1c78de39f2.JPG

Plastic card body on scratchbuilt brass frames.

 

Not finished as I never finish anything, but don't tell Sir.

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1 hour ago, Chamby said:

I do find the marketing situation with the new model of GT3 a bit odd.  It was available for pre-order only, from a new manufacturer with no track record, at a time when a similar approach from another supplier had failed spectacularly.  No additional models of GT3 appear to have been produced by KR for open sale, for those who would like to have more confidence in the final product before making a purchasing decision.  GT3 is now hitting the model press, with multiple reviews in all the regular magazines... but nobody can actually go out and buy one off the shelf, from their usual retailers, or even from the manufacturer at this point in time.

 

A second production run is being proposed if there is a sufficient level of interest expressed to the manufacturer, but delivery will be some time in the future and it sounds like manufacturing hasn’t even commenced yet.

 

Whilst I can perhaps understand the manufacturers desire to test the water regarding level of interest before proceeding to production, from the customers perspective it is a very unsatisfactory way of going about things with the risk all being passed on to the consumer, and extensive market exposure completely being mis-matched with availability.  I can only hope that future manufacturers opting for this approach have sufficient faith in their product to order additional quantities to meet further demand once their product is realised and all the media exposure kicks in.

 

A missed opportunity I think, from an overly cautious supplier.  I do hope that this does not become the normal way forward for RTR products in the future.  

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, grahame said:

Just about all modern production is in limited batch runs that make pre-ordering a necessity to avoid FOMO, especially when manufacturing quantity is tailored to them. If there was no large deposit or full pre-payment required then maybe placing a pre-order would be prudent. I can quite understand a new manufacturer being cautious about funding a large production run without any idea of sales demand. 

 

Unless I'm mistaken, Rails have adopted a similar arrangement for the forthcoming 18000 (GT1?) but nobody seems to be criticising them in the way that KR Models were criticised (all right, Rails/Heljan are a lot more established than KR Models). I really was astonished by how folk attacked - I can't think of another word for it - KR Models over GT3.

Edited by St Enodoc
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38 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

 

Unless I'm mistaken, Rails have adopted a similar arrangement for the forthcoming 18000 (GT1?) but nobody seems to be criticising them in the way that KR Models were criticised (all right, Rails/Heljan are a lot more established than KR Models). I really was astonished by how folk attacked - I can't think of another word for it - KR Models over GT3

Nothing to do with K R Models and the related thread but GT3 was English Electric's numbering. Deltic was diesel prototype one, DP1, DP2 was diesel prototype two and GT3 was number three.  18000 was BR number nothing to do with GT3.

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3 hours ago, Chamby said:

A missed opportunity I think, from an overly cautious supplier.  I do hope that this does not become the normal way forward for RTR products in the future.  

 

Or is it missed opportunities from over cautious purchasers? If you want one, put your name down for a second run. You might get lucky. There are lots of RTR models that are limited edition and no longer available. 

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On 13/02/2021 at 06:52, Ravenser said:

 

 

May I politely enquire whether the Hornby F10 body is short of scale length and by how much? Not meant to criticise - my own efforts with it are shown below. I think it is either 1 or 2 mm short, and I took 1mm out of the wheelbase and made it 9'9" to fudge. (This was easy enough as I was using etched W-irons on a scratchbuilt chassis)

 

I don't have the relevant volume of the new Tatlow, as I'm basically a modern image modeller and this is about the only N ER wagon I'll ever build (I have the old 1 volume Tatlow and the new Vols 1 /4a/4b)  so my effort is a bit of a guesstimate. However it would be good to know how far I guessed right

 

949229500_2021meatwagons.jpg.3085fcc967aea03b0d42fd36106ad8fc.jpg

 

To be honest I don’t really know, I was following the work that Graeme King and Jonathan Wealleans have done. Maybe they’d be able to comment. 
 

Sorry I can’t be of help. 

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15 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

I bought a secondhand Perseverence GC clerestory third built by a friend of mine. I substituted brass D&S bogies as replacements for the over tall w/m ones supplied with the kit and also made the body sit as low as possible - it's still a bit high but no where near as much. I can't do anything about the end profile of course. I have two to build myself at some stage and have D& S bogies for those as well.

Andrew

Ignorance is bliss Andrew!  I bought one off ebay some years ago and not knowing much about GCR rolling stock built it as it came. I must remember to exclude any GCR afficionados from my next meeting.

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17 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

I bought a secondhand Perseverence GC clerestory third built by a friend of mine. I substituted brass D&S bogies as replacements for the over tall w/m ones supplied with the kit and also made the body sit as low as possible - it's still a bit high but no where near as much. I can't do anything about the end profile of course. I have two to build myself at some stage and have D& S bogies for those as well.

Andrew

Further to my comments of yesterday, I've made some comparisons of the coach I have, plus the unbuilt kits with drawings and the end photo I have.

 

It appears that the clerestory is about 2mm too wide. As the ends of the clerestory are not parts of the end etches it would be possible to cut them down the centre to narrow them. I remain to be totally convinced about how wrong the end profile is - the sides of the roof are supposedly too curved either side of the clerestory. Comparing the photo I have with those of the modified ends on Steve Banks website suggest the modified ends are too flat and that somewhere in the middle would be more correct so I think I will be able to live with the ends as they are  

 

However, the two ends are the same with provision made for steps and alarm gear on both ends. The steps should only be on one end and the alarm gear on the other. Some of the steps also appear to be in wrong positions compared to the body at Ruddington.  As the etches are not overly thin it is possible with delicate filing, with the right sort of file, to remove the base of the steps on one end and also those in incorrect positions as I've just tried it out of interest (I needed a distraction from the debacle that appears to be unfolding with the England cricket team in Chennai!). I didn't complete it but it is certainly possible but will just take time.

 

In case anyone is interested I have attached a photo of the end of the coach at Ruddington, note its sitting on a bogie flat wagon.

 

695922406_DSC_0130pss.jpg.e936c6af1cef87d73271b22930f2050d.jpg

 

Andrew

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9 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

On the visit to LB where I met up with richard i as well as yourself, GT3 came up in the conversation and by chance it was in one the boxes of EMUs I had with me. You let me run it, I don't think anyone took a photo of it.

 

Guess what? It still isn't finished. Here it is running on my layout. As far as the two teachers who witnessed it running on LB are concerned, my homework is not completed because the cat ate my tools, sadly it died and needed to be flush down the toilet.

100_5174.JPG.81066dc20fb94653af224f1c78de39f2.JPG

Plastic card body on scratchbuilt brass frames.

 

Not finished as I never finish anything, but don't tell Sir.

How forgetful of me, Clive,

 

Of course you brought it, and I remember it running (performing very well). However, I've looked through my picture library, and you're right; nobody took a photograph. How remiss of me. 

 

Thanks for showing us. I look forward to seeing it finished!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's good to see, given some of the flak that has been directed at the manufacturer.

I can only report as I find, John,

 

Andy York has done the 'critical' assessment for BRM. The reason it came to me was to give it a thorough road test on Little Bytham. As an aside, LB is becoming quite a test track these days. Bachmann folk pop over regularly (or did), I get to try Hornby's latest and also Heljan's , and now KR's GT3. 

 

I took the moving footage of it yesterday which will go to be edited tomorrow (I don't know how to), in readiness for its appearance on BRM digital. I put it on the 'Flying Scotsman' 12-car rake, which is ten modified Bachmann Mk.1s and two brass kit-builds - a reasonable test, and far more than the prototype seemed to haul on its tests. 

 

With it being DCC-fitted (and I only have analogue), after applying power, the loco sat for about 40 seconds as the whining increased until it moved off. There was a little slipping at first (expected?), but, once it found its feet, it was away, with even-acceleration. It then proceeded to bowl around quite happily; not fast - about 60 mph tops I'd say, and much slower than the train's normal kit-built Pacific, but adequate.  

 

I was unaware of the flak directed at the manufacturer (I've never heard of him/her/them), but from what I saw, the end product looks good and works well. 

 

1718716777_GT301studio.jpg.bbbe68844a2dbca3d63bd75f96e226eb.jpg

 

649848134_GT303onlayout.jpg.2045517dd7ed42a5c1096a89e47f9530.jpg

 

What does it cost? 

 

What was the nature of the flak? The marketing? The production run? From what I've seen, it won't be criticised on quality. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

What does it cost? 

 

What was the nature of the flak? The marketing? The production run? From what I've seen, it won't be criticised on quality. 

If you need to know, start here:

 

 

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1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

If you need to know, start here:

 

 

Thanks John,

 

I suppose I should look further on RMweb than just a few threads (to be fair, Wright writes flies along so fast that most of my RMweb time is spent asking and answering questions on that).

 

Because I was involved with the models' development, I have dipped into the Hornby A2/2 thread, where there appear to be a few 'complaints' about quality control issues. Without being defensive, I had (and have) nothing to do with that. I was brought in at the development stage to consider the models' accuracy with regard to specific details. In this respect, I think Hornby has produced arguably the 'most-accurate' RTR steam-outline loco ever, especially in the case of 60505. It can only represent that particular A2/2 of the six; renumbering/renaming will render it inaccurate.

 

It seems a shame that there are some problems in the assembly of these models. As previously mentioned, I could only comment on the example I had to assess/test, where the assembly was perfect.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

1718716777_GT301studio.jpg.bbbe68844a2dbca3d63bd75f96e226eb.jpg

 

What was the nature of the flak? The marketing? The production run? From what I've seen, it won't be criticised on quality. 

 

 

My personal view is that this was largely about timing - if the DJM issues had not just happened then many would probably have been happy with what amounted to 'crowd-funding', but in the circumstances I am perhaps pleasantly surprised that this managed to get off the ground.

 

The similarities were strong, as for example, KR started to announce subsequent models without having delivered the first one, and so it must be a great relief to those that 'had faith' and paid up front, that this one has come right.

 

Tony

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Americas GT3 !!!! (though this was coal fired), the front even looks similar to GT3. - Several Railroads tried coal fired steam turbine locos around and just after WW2, all were huge monsters, some more successful than others but none lasted very long, The Diesel Electric eventually usurped all.

 

https://www.american-rails.com/turb.html

 

WW2 & the years after brought about huge technology changes, gas turbines, jet engines, nuclear power, rapid advances in electronics etc so it was no surprise that the USA tried these new technologies on their railroads. A nuclear powered locomotive was designed - but as far as I know was not built (thankfully).

 

The late 1940's & 50's were rip-roaring years !!

 

image.png.ed6622c0999516be48a6586d9702bbd3.png

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
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