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Wright writes.....


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22 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Every reference I've ever seen or read is 'paddlebox', Tony. I believe it refers to the shape of the enormous splashers over the wheels and the central see-through hole / cover which was reputedly for lubrication purposes - this supposedly gave it the look of the central covers for paddle-steamers (the ones with paddlewheels either side amidships like the 'Waverley'), hence the 'box' that covers the paddles?

 

I gather it was a somewhat derided feature and was removed during the subsequent rebuilds along with fitment of mechanical lubricators.

 

Perhaps others more expert on all things Southern / LSWR can confirm? I'm a LMS/LMR man really; I just had 'fun' building the thing! (one of my first commissions)

 

Not being an SR let alone an LSWR man, I hadn't realised that the T14s lasted as long as they did until I saw this nicely posed 1949 view at Nine Elms recently added to the Rail Online site:

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p265322570/hf56bc370

 

A view of a Paddlebox at Surbiton in original form on the same site for comparison:

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p787154604/he601084e

 

Simon

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We're really going to need Sherlock Holmes on this one..............................

 

61629.jpg.6980460fbd8492fd9b9e5bbe0bc5f0b5.jpg

 

No date, no location; nothing, except it's 61629 (even the disc code is wrong - it displays 'mineral or empty wagons!). 

 

Though cropped, it's probably single track.

 

Somewhere in Fenland?

 

Thanks in anticipation........................

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

We're really going to need Sherlock Holmes on this one..............................

 

61629.jpg.6980460fbd8492fd9b9e5bbe0bc5f0b5.jpg

 

No date, no location; nothing, except it's 61629 (even the disc code is wrong - it displays 'mineral or empty wagons!). 

 

Though cropped, it's probably single track.

 

Somewhere in Fenland?

 

Thanks in anticipation........................

 

 

 

The general appendix I have (dated 1947 although has stamps inside dated 1956 which might mean still valid then?) shows that disc code to be "Norwich and Cromer or Wroxham and County School" under Table S "Special Codes of Engine Head Lamps and Discs".

Edited by Bucoops
Can't spell Wroxham
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25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

- it displays 'mineral or empty wagons!).

This is more likely to be a route-indicating headcode, as listed in Table S of the 1947 Southern Area General Appendix, where it is shown as 'No 70: Norwich and Cromer or Wroxham and County School'.  Another train with this headcode is shown leaving Norwich shortly after Nationalisation in LNER Society Journal 83, p7.

 

Despite knowing the Cromer line quite well, I couldn't tell you the location, other than noting that with the single track it will be north of Wroxham, and with a B17 at the head, it is more likely to be on the Cromer line.

 

D

 

Edited by Darryl Tooley
to translate into English.
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First thing I did was to check loco allocation history:

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600217030&loco=2829

 

... which shows predominantly allocated to Norwich in the early BR period. That would tie in with Rich's post above (although is that 'Wroxham' rather than 'Wrexham'?!)

 

My only other comment is that I'm not so sure that's single track. There seems to be too much manicured level surface heading off to the left hand side of the picture. Could be the other running track widening at this point to go through a bridge or round some other structure, station platform even?

 

Edit to add - there looks to be a bridge in the background which looks to be spanning more than just one track

Edited by LNER4479
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32 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

First thing I did was to check loco allocation history:

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600217030&loco=2829

 

... which shows predominantly allocated to Norwich in the early BR period. That would tie in with Rich's post above (although is that 'Wroxham' rather than 'Wrexham'?!)

 

My only other comment is that I'm not so sure that's single track. There seems to be too much manicured level surface heading off to the left hand side of the picture. Could be the other running track widening at this point to go through a bridge or round some other structure, station platform even?

 

Edit to add - there looks to be a bridge in the background which looks to be spanning more than just one track

 

It absolutely is Wroxham. Fat fingers strikes again ;0

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2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Every reference I've ever seen or read is 'paddlebox', Tony. I believe it refers to the shape of the enormous splashers over the wheels and the central see-through hole / cover which was reputedly for lubrication purposes - this supposedly gave it the look of the central covers for paddle-steamers (the ones with paddlewheels either side amidships like the 'Waverley'), hence the 'box' that covers the paddles?

 

I gather it was a somewhat derided feature and was removed during the subsequent rebuilds along with fitment of mechanical lubricators.

 

Perhaps others more expert on all things Southern / LSWR can confirm? I'm a LMS/LMR man really; I just had 'fun' building the thing! (one of my first commissions)

'Paddlebox' is correct and not that pretty in original form but once rebuilt they were truly ugly beasts, see link to SR Email Group website page: https://sremg.org.uk/steam/t14class.shtml

 

Glenn

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1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

The general appendix I have (dated 1947 although has stamps inside dated 1956 which might mean still valid then?) shows that disc code to be "Norwich and Cromer or Wroxham and County School" under Table S "Special Codes of Engine Head Lamps and Discs".

 

1 hour ago, Darryl Tooley said:

This is more likely to be a route-indicating headcode, as listed in Table S of the 1947 Southern Area General Appendix, where it is shown as 'No 70: Norwich and Cromer or Wroxham and County School'.  Another train with this headcode is shown leaving Norwich shortly after Nationalisation in LNER Society Journal 83, p7.

 

Despite knowing the Cromer line quite well, I couldn't tell you the location, other than noting that with the single track it will be north of Wroxham, and with a B17 at the head, it is more likely to be on the Cromer line.

 

D

 

Despite East Anglia absolutely being NOT my area, my curiosity is aroused. A Google around show that the lines described are / were referred to as the East Norfolk Railway, which is presumably the origin of the route-indicating headcode. Wikipedia entry here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Norfolk_Railway

 

There's a handy map, which at least gives some locations to go and hunt around.

 

I've been puzzling over the angle of the sun however. Assuming a midday / afternoon sort of time, then the train looks to be heading south-ish ie heading towards Norwich. Would that be correct, ie same headcode irrespective of which direction the train is heading, just so long as it is on those lines? Looking at some pictures appears to show former double track singled, which might account for the space on the left hand side I noted earlier.

Edited by LNER4479
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Here’s another Paddlebox photo. Nine survived into BR days but only three were renumbered, 30446, 47 & 61. This is 30461 in an early BR livery with ‘British Railways’ in the Southern ‘sunshine’ letters. The H, R, S & T were transfers from the word ‘SOUTHERN’ while the remaining letters were hand painted to match. The BR number was on the front buffer beam and also on the back of the tender. This is Eastleigh, 19/8/50. The loco was withdrawn in 5/51.

 

7BA3A144-2921-43AE-A8DE-4593F66E32B4.jpeg.6537051a4573752504572ce62da5a974.jpeg

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2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

ie same headcode irrespective of which direction the train is heading, just so long as it is on those lines?

No 70 is the only code listed for the route in question.

 

Contrary to my previous post, the line was doubled as far as North Walsham at the turn of the century before last.  It was only in 1967 that the Wroxham to North Walsham section reverted to a single line.

 

D

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Many thanks for all the information on the B17 pictures.................

 

Speaking of pictures......................

 

These are some items from the estate of Les Blackburn.

 

2080416254_APOCtankwagonkit.jpg.e0b601edc4a1b5a2d4dcc3b29421b00e.jpg

 

Has anyone any idea of the age of this kit? It's made by Wills and is a mixture of brass tube and white metal castings to make an Anglo Persian Oil Company dual tank wagon. It's complete as far as I can see.

 

2101275463_Staniertenders.jpg.cec81c2d7f289258dfa2d505fede32d1.jpg

 

Two Stanier tenders. The further one is Jamieson in nickel silver and the nearer one (K's?) is in white metal (rather nicely painted, too).

 

418714254_trackcleaningwagonandsnowplough.jpg.d2d8bc9bc8fd0930f919ee349fc91f32.jpg

 

I think we need Clive Mortimer here, at least with identifying the origin of the white metal snowplough. 

 

The nearer wagon is (I think) a track cleaning vehicle of some sort (origin unknown). Is it a modification from an actual prototype?

 

1380245603_trackcleaningwagon.jpg.5d400eafd2b5fbf5b23aa310ac5ad0e5.jpg

 

Here is the wagon inverted. Somewhere at the back of my mind (and it's a long way back!) I recall reading somewhere that to clean the track, one inserted cigarette filters soaked in meths into the cylinders (have I dreamed this?). 

 

Anyway, if anyone is interested in buying the items, please PM me. 

 

 

Edited by Tony Wright
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9 hours ago, drmditch said:

 

A very hesitant suggestion, but assuming it is somewhere on the GE main line, would the locomotive shadow suggest it is travelling in the down (E or NE) direction?
 

I would confirm this is in the down direction, and I also agree with the area being between Romford and Gidea Park. The fast lines are on the south side after the flyover between Manor Park and Ilford take the slow lines from the south side to the north. Also, after Romford, there is quite a long straight run.

 

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More for the location experts.................................

 

61637.jpg.a002d0aa14e20b65a9cb59cc8c22df3c.jpg

 

No date and no location given. 

 

The loco's clearly shunting, is in forward gear and is lamped up for a Class H freight.

 

The loco is still a B17/1 (by withdrawal it was a B17/6). It's an Ipswich engine.

 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Wagon/van experts out there, what is this, please?

 

332883068_unknownwagon.jpg.59cc8408a2a472313b74283511c2d0d7.jpg

 

Another from the late Les Blackburn, and in need of a good clean!

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

Tony its probably the McGowan GN fitted van. Four end posts and single offset V hanger indicating this is the side that has the vacuum cylinder fitted. There should be two V hangers on the other side.

Andrew

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Many thanks for all the information on the B17 pictures.................

 

Speaking of pictures......................

 

These are some items from the estate of Les Blackburn.

 

2080416254_APOCtankwagonkit.jpg.e0b601edc4a1b5a2d4dcc3b29421b00e.jpg

 

Has anyone any idea of the age of this kit? It's made by Wills and is a mixture of brass tube and white metal castings to make an Anglo Persian Oil Company dual tank wagon. It's complete as far as I can see.

 

2101275463_Staniertenders.jpg.cec81c2d7f289258dfa2d505fede32d1.jpg

 

Two Stanier tenders. The further one is Jamieson in nickel silver and the nearer one (K's?) is in white metal (rather nicely painted, too).

 

418714254_trackcleaningwagonandsnowplough.jpg.d2d8bc9bc8fd0930f919ee349fc91f32.jpg

 

I think we need Clive Mortimer here, at least with identifying the origin of the white metal snowplough. 

 

The nearer wagon is (I think) a track cleaning vehicle of some sort (origin unknown). Is it a modification from an actual prototype?

 

1380245603_trackcleaningwagon.jpg.5d400eafd2b5fbf5b23aa310ac5ad0e5.jpg

 

Here is the wagon inverted. Somewhere at the back of my mind (and it's a long way back!) I recall reading somewhere that to clean the track, one inserted cigarette filters soaked in meths into the cylinders (have I dreamed this?). 

 

Anyway, if anyone is interested in buying the items, please PM me. 

 

 

Cigarette filters for roll ups are still available in bags of 100.

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Many thanks for all the information on the B17 pictures.................

 

Speaking of pictures......................

 

These are some items from the estate of Les Blackburn.

418714254_trackcleaningwagonandsnowplough.jpg.d2d8bc9bc8fd0930f919ee349fc91f32.jpg

 

I think we need Clive Mortimer here, at least with identifying the origin of the white metal snowplough.

Hello Tony

 

The snowplough is a Southern Region one built using a Schools class tender.

image.png.b0c4d482b68932ec97ce8672e0b37f6e.png

 

As for the origin of the model I have no idea. Can I post your photo on the DEMU forum and see if any members there know who the manufacturer of the kit was?

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I’m no expert on the area but that looks very much like Boston Stump (St. Botolph’s church spire) just visible over the buffer beam and ahead of the smoke box.

From the direction of the sunlight I’m guessing it’s in a yard to the south of the station? Coincidentally Boston goods yard appears to lie in a suitable position.

Any Boston experts out there?
 

(Added additional information).

Edited by Herbert Nigel
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7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Wagon/van experts out there, what is this, please?

 

332883068_unknownwagon.jpg.59cc8408a2a472313b74283511c2d0d7.jpg

 

Another from the late Les Blackburn, and in need of a good clean!

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

It’s a GN 6 ton goods van. 
 

I could well be wrong my years of experience is limited compared to others. 
 

BCFD21FF-B687-45FD-97BD-F82C137B7A34.jpeg.9037e8eddda6960bdcc25c03cda6ec78.jpeg
 

But that looks like the wagon there. 
 

If it’s for sale I’d very much take it on and finish it, thought I’d swoop in before Jonathan beats me to it...

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4 hours ago, Herbert Nigel said:

I’m no expert on the area but that looks very much like Boston Stump (St. Botolph’s church spire) just visible over the buffer beam and ahead of the smoke box.

From the direction of the sunlight I’m guessing it’s in a yard to the south of the station? Coincidentally Boston goods yard appears to lie in a suitable position.

Any Boston experts out there?
 

(Added additional information).

 

The top section of the building looks rather too narrow, to me at least, to be Boston although going on something rather hazy in the distance isn't that good a guide.

Also from the current track layout the houses to the right of the loco  should be more parallel to the running lines.

Always happy to be proved wrong of course by someone with greater knowledge.

Loco looks fresh out of works so a running in turn somewhere? Boston seems a bit remote from either Doncaster or Stratford.

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12 hours ago, PMP said:

The track cleaning wagon is Wills I think, the Snow Plough, might be a McGowan or MTK. It looks that sort of ‘quality’.

The track cleaning wagon is from Wills and I think it was based on an actual vehicle - for rail washing on an incline, Folkestone harbour?

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