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Just now, thegreenhowards said:

Ahh, I’m still getting used to LNER as opposed to BR colour schemes, not helped by predominantly black and white photos. This is a relic of the BR colour scheme I inherited and I didn’t think to check. Anyway, as you say easily sorted so thanks for the tip off.

 

Andy

I feel your pain!

 

Liverpool016.jpg.e80934ff65c6efd524f822ccabbd9d7c.jpg

The first time I showed Tony my first LNER paint job he very kindly, immediately pointed out the buffers thing. (apologies for poor quality photo but you can at least see my original error in this regard)

 

1634749569_LiverpoolLB(TW).jpg.737d0318cfebf6a48a7a37bfa6f6f502.jpg

By the time I visited Little Bytham with said loco, it had been put right! (Tony's photo, c.2013)

 

 

Edited by LNER4479
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57 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Ahh, I’m still getting used to LNER as opposed to BR colour schemes, not helped by predominantly black and white photos. This is a relic of the BR colour scheme I inherited and I didn’t think to check. Anyway, as you say easily sorted so thanks for the tip off.

 

Andy

LNER normally painted buffer housings black, on most other railways and in BR days they were red. The buffer shanks though should always be black, in steam days these were mostly castings with no machined surfaces (Spencer-Moulton buffers on A4s an exception) , the whole thing was painted black. Shiny buffer heads were only for special occasions, some sheds which often had royal train workings kept a special set of polished buffers and couplings for them.

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13 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

At long last I have been able to undertake final assembly of one of my Covid lockdown projects.   Design started in January 2021 and was for me my most difficult project to date because of its curved footplate.  Main features are EM gauge, Ultrascale wheels, American pickup, motor-in-tender drive system, and CSB suspension.  The tender is the LRM Horseshoe tender.  

 

My thanks must go to Ian Rathbone for the superb painting and lining.  And yes I have glazed the spectacle plates Tony.  Lamps will have to wait until we know what train it will be rostered to haul on Clayton.

 

Four other loco's were returned along with the J1 and so there will be further updates in due course.IMG_3554.jpg.cf8fb5ea19992480b795d940141f22e2.jpg      

Hi Frank

 

The J1 looks very nice. I'm curious about it being painted in lined black with post 1928 number position on the cab. Do you have a photo of 3009 in lined black with the number on the cab rather than on the tender as it was in pre-1928 paint scheme? An easy way to tell is evidence of the black white lining around the edge of the front buffer beam which was a characteristic of lined black engines. Yeadon's Register indicates 3009's first shopping after beginning of 1928 was a general at Doncaster early in 1930 so I imagine at that time it would have been painted plain black and prior to that would have had the number on the tender. There is actually a photo of 3009 in Yeadon Vol 37A  on page 18 and it appears to be plain black. Although the caption in Yeadon actually states that red lining was discontinued from about 1930 as an economy measure. In the photo it is plain black.

 

I see you have used the LRM Horseshoe tender. GN tenders are a minefield as has been explored previously on Wright Writes. I would think the tender should have the front coal plate forward of the tool boxes as described previously in Graham Nicholas' description of the building of his D2 seen on the previous page. I'm shortly to build one of these tenders for a D3.

 

I'm also curious about the red lining on the driving wheels - I've only seen this on certain J72s painted at Darlington. Does anybody know if this was a practice undertaken on black engines painted at Doncaster?  

 

I hope this J1 becomes an LRM kit?

 

Andrew

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

LNER normally painted buffer housings black, on most other railways and in BR days they were red. The buffer shanks though should always be black, in steam days these were mostly castings with no machined surfaces (Spencer-Moulton buffers on A4s an exception) , the whole thing was painted black. Shiny buffer heads were only for special occasions, some sheds which often had royal train workings kept a special set of polished buffers and couplings for them.

Mea culpa in terms of careless terminology.

 

I'm not so sure about real buffer shanks / head being painted black, however. My first hand experience - albeit in more modern times - are that those hefty castings comprising the shank and head are simply left unpainted. What they do have however, is regular application of grease (buffer head) and oil (shank) as part of planned maintenance. That attracts dirt like nobody's business and thus very quickly becomes extremely dark and as good as black in appearance. If they were genuinely painted in previous eras, then fair enough - I bow to your greater knowledge!

 

I'm also slightly influenced by playing with preserved locos! The following sequence of pictures from 2009 illustrates the point re grease on buffers.

 

MYDC1291.JPG.448add38f5df8621ff3832f4c3bf7e5b.JPG

Thornton Junction. Awaiting to go off shed with Tornado. Front buffer heads wiped clean. Note however contrast with No.9's tender buffers on the left hand side.

 

MYDC1296.JPG.8eed46135b0e5991ca6ce898b32b3794.JPG

We were then called upon to shunt No.9 back into the shed ...

 

MYDC1305.JPG.1adbaa9d8006163af496651012e238c8.JPG

Result? See how quickly the dirt-ingrained grease transfers!

 

MYDC1320.JPG.1c3cbe5be06e0e0b167d1682aea54826.JPG

Fortunately, there was time in Millerhill yard to clean them up again. I then went one stage further and used the emery cloth to apply the distinctive 'quartering' effect in time-honoured Top shed and Haymarket style! Loco then stayed like that for the rest of the day whilst on public view but no doubt got greased up again the first time something else (less well cared for!) got coupled on the front end!

Edited by LNER4479
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Hi Everyone 

 

Can I ask please what train loads the LNER B1 & B12 4-6-0s would have hauled.

 

Currently I have  models of B1 number 61250 A Harold Bibby aswell as 2 B12s both triang Hornby locos, 1 carrying the original number 8509 and the other I numbered as 8524.

 

I  generally have them hauling 5 Gresley bogie coaches as used on the flying scotsman train but rarely hauling freight as I have added weight inside some of the vehicles 16 of which are 4 wheel box wagons as the derailed if no extra weight was added..

 

Any information anybody has will be very useful and highly welcome and thankyou in advance for any replies.

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1 hour ago, davidw said:

How did you manage that?

 

Thank you for asking, David!  I cut little squares of Sellotape, and stuck two on each buffer head so that the corners met in the middle and alternate quarters were masked by the Sellotape.  Then scrubbed the buffer heads with a fibreglass scratch brush.  Then removing the tape revealed that quarters had been scoured and the other quarters had been protected by the Sellotape.  I think the buffers are plated brass, so don't scrub too hard otherwise the quarters will be brass coloured!

 

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6 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you for asking, David!  I cut little squares of Sellotape, and stuck two on each buffer head so that the corners met in the middle and alternate quarters were masked by the Sellotape.  Then scrubbed the buffer heads with a fibreglass scratch brush.  Then removing the tape revealed that quarters had been scoured and the other quarters had been protected by the Sellotape.  I think the buffers are plated brass, so don't scrub too hard otherwise the quarters will be brass coloured!

 

Very clever. I'd never have thought of it.

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4 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

I'm also slightly influenced by playing with preserved locos! The following sequence of pictures from 2009 illustrates the point re grease on buffers.

 

MYDC1291.JPG.448add38f5df8621ff3832f4c3bf7e5b.JPG

Thornton Junction. Awaiting to go off shed with Tornado. Front buffer heads wiped clean. Note however contrast with No.9's tender buffers on the left hand side.

 

MYDC1296.JPG.8eed46135b0e5991ca6ce898b32b3794.JPG

We were then called upon to shunt No.9 back into the shed ...

 

MYDC1305.JPG.1adbaa9d8006163af496651012e238c8.JPG

Result? See how quickly the dirt-ingrained grease transfers!

 

MYDC1320.JPG.1c3cbe5be06e0e0b167d1682aea54826.JPG

Fortunately, there was time in Millerhill yard to clean them up again. I then went one stage further and used the emery cloth to apply the distinctive 'quartering' effect in time-honoured Top shed and Haymarket style! Loco then stayed like that for the rest of the day whilst on public view but no doubt got greased up again the first time something else (less well cared for!) got coupled on the front end!

Fabulous :D

Edited by Chas Levin
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3 hours ago, 313201 said:

Hi Everyone 

 

Can I ask please what train loads the LNER B1 & B12 4-6-0s would have hauled.

 

Currently I have  models of B1 number 61250 A Harold Bibby aswell as 2 B12s both triang Hornby locos, 1 carrying the original number 8509 and the other I numbered as 8524.

 

I  generally have them hauling 5 Gresley bogie coaches as used on the flying scotsman train but rarely hauling freight as I have added weight inside some of the vehicles 16 of which are 4 wheel box wagons as the derailed if no extra weight was added..

 

Any information anybody has will be very useful and highly welcome and thankyou in advance for any replies.

I don't know off hand what the maximum loads the prototype B1s (5MT) and B12s (4P3F) would have been limited to, but at times they could be substantial. 

 

Up to the advent of the B17s, the (original) B12s took up to and beyond 400 ton loads on the Liverpool Street-Norwich main line, but by BR days, and in their dotage (even as B12/3s), loads would have been lighter. In the latest book on the LNER 4-6-0s, published by Pen and Sword, there's a shot of 61574 on eight bogies, on the ECML near Retford. 

 

B1s could also haul heavy loads, on occasions principal services on the ex-GE and ex-GC main lines; named principal services. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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3 hours ago, 313201 said:

Hi Everyone 

 

Can I ask please what train loads the LNER B1 & B12 4-6-0s would have hauled.

 

Currently I have  models of B1 number 61250 A Harold Bibby aswell as 2 B12s both triang Hornby locos, 1 carrying the original number 8509 and the other I numbered as 8524.

 

I  generally have them hauling 5 Gresley bogie coaches as used on the flying scotsman train but rarely hauling freight as I have added weight inside some of the vehicles 16 of which are 4 wheel box wagons as the derailed if no extra weight was added..

 

Any information anybody has will be very useful and highly welcome and thankyou in advance for any replies.

Cannot comment on the B12s but it was nothing to see 13/14 coaches (mixture of Thompson, Gresly and early MK1s) behind the Cleethorpes, Grimsby, London trains

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5 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

Hi Frank

 

The J1 looks very nice. I'm curious about it being painted in lined black with post 1928 number position on the cab. Do you have a photo of 3009 in lined black with the number on the cab rather than on the tender as it was in pre-1928 paint scheme? An easy way to tell is evidence of the black white lining around the edge of the front buffer beam which was a characteristic of lined black engines. Yeadon's Register indicates 3009's first shopping after beginning of 1928 was a general at Doncaster early in 1930 so I imagine at that time it would have been painted plain black and prior to that would have had the number on the tender. There is actually a photo of 3009 in Yeadon Vol 37A  on page 18 and it appears to be plain black. Although the caption in Yeadon actually states that red lining was discontinued from about 1930 as an economy measure. In the photo it is plain black.

 

I see you have used the LRM Horseshoe tender. GN tenders are a minefield as has been explored previously on Wright Writes. I would think the tender should have the front coal plate forward of the tool boxes as described previously in Graham Nicholas' description of the building of his D2 seen on the previous page. I'm shortly to build one of these tenders for a D3.

 

I'm also curious about the red lining on the driving wheels - I've only seen this on certain J72s painted at Darlington. Does anybody know if this was a practice undertaken on black engines painted at Doncaster?  

 

I hope this J1 becomes an LRM kit?

 

Andrew

 

 

 

Hi Andrew

I think you are probably correct in that the model should have the number on the tender (damn it).  I provided Ian with a picture of 3009 as it was in the mid 1930's as I wanted him to paint it but also stipulated I wanted it lined.  It is obvious looking again at the picture that the loco was not lined by the time the picture was taken.  I'm still getting my head around many things LNER and I think I got tripped up by some narrative saying that after 1930 the LNER stopped lining out the J1's, so as Clayton is set around 1930 I took the opportunity to have a lined model.

 

As to the position of the coal plate, as you said GN tenders are a real mine field.  The following part image is what I used for reference for the tool boxes and coal plate on 3009's tender.  The photo was one I picked up at a model railway exhibition so I don't have permission to share it, but hopefully this small section will be okay.  I'll remove if the copyright holder objects.  
895190164_J1ToolBoxandCoalPlate.jpg.32926ceda9c79c7f99667e835c39a0fc.jpg.       

The toolbox looks to be narrower than I've seen previously and cannot be seen to the right of the driver's head.

 

Keep your eyes pealed in the press for announcements from LRM about new kits.  You may get what you've hoped for.

 

Frank

 

 

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1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Thanks David; its a thing about the Hornby A4 that's always bugged me; I did put a bit on my layout thread a little while ago about how I did it:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83030-train-spotting-at-finsbury-square/page/29/

 

 

Ah I remember commenting on it on a previous occasion.

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Hi Tony

 

Many thanks for your information regarding the B1 & B12 locos aswell as the pictures which are also very useful for important reference and information gathering so that I can hopefully run the correct or as near to correct formations behind them.

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Regarding buffers, this is how the North Western was observed looking after them on their carriages in the nineteenth century as recorded in FB Head's classic work Stokers and Pokers.

 

"We will now proceed to detail a few circumstances respecting the railway carriages, about which our readers have probably never cared to inquire.—And, firstly, as soon as an up-train arrives at the commencement of the Euston platform, while it is still in motion, and before its guard—distinguished by a silver- buckled black shiny patent-leather belt, hanging diagonally across the white buttons of his green uniform-coat—has ventured with practised skill to spring from the sideboard of the train to the platform, two greasy-faced men in canvas jackets, with an oil-can in each of their right hands and with something like a mophead of dirty cotton hugged under each of their left arms, are to be seen running on each side of the rails below in pursuit of the train; and while the porters, holding the handles of the carriage doors, to prevent any traveller from escaping, are still advancing at a brisk walk, these two oilmen, who have now overtaken the train, diligently wipe as they proceed the dust and perspiration from the buffer-rods of the last carriage. As soon as these irons are perfectly clean and dry rubbed, they oil them from their can; and then—crawling beneath the open doors of the carriages and beneath the feet and ankles of a crowd of exuding travellers of all ages, who care no more for oilmen than the oilmen of this world care for them—they hurry to the buffer-rods of the next carriage—and so rapidly do they proceed, that before the last omnibus has driven off, the buffer-rods of the whole train are as bright as when new. But, secondly, these two men have been closely followed by two others in green jackets—one on each side of the carriage—who deal solely in a yellow composition of tallow and palm-oil. Carrying a wooden box full of this ointnent in one hand and a sort of short flat salve-knife in the other, they open with the latter the small iron trap-doors which cover the receptacles for greasing the axles, restore whatever quantity has been exhausted, and then, closing with a dexterous snap the little unctuous chamber over which they preside, they proceed to the next tallow-box; and thus, while the buffer-rods of the whole train are being comfortably cleaned and greased, the glistening axles of the carriages are simultaneously fed with luxurious fat. Thirdly, while these two operations are proceeding in the lower region, at about the same rate two others are progressing, one inside the carriages and the other on their roofs; for on the arrival of every passenger-train, the carriage " searcher," also " beginning at the end," enters every carriage, lifts up first all the stuffed blue seats, next the carpet, which he drops in a heap in the middle of the carriage, and then, inquisitively peeping under the two seats, he leaves the carriage, laden with whatever article or articles may have been left in it, to continue his search throughout the train. The inconceivable number and variety of the articles which he collects we shall shortly have occasion to notice. Fourthly, above the searcher's head, on the roof, and following him very closely in his course, there " sits up aloft " a man called a " strapper" whose sole duty it is, on the arrival of every train, to inspect, clean, shampoo, and refresh with cold- drawn neat's-foot oil the luggage-straps, which, in consequence of several serious accidents that have occurred from their breaking, are now lined inside with strong iron wire. It is the especial duty of this inquisitor to condemn any straps that may be faulty, in order that they may be immediately replaced."

 

Edited by Adam88
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15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's just that I greatly-admire those who are self-reliant in all aspects of their modelling.

 

I'm self reliant, just not much cop at any of it. Still, practice, practice, practice. All this practice is costing me a fortune and progress with anything is glacial, sometimes due to just getting despondent at having to do things three or four times to get it right.

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5 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Andrew

I think you are probably correct in that the model should have the number on the tender (damn it).  I provided Ian with a picture of 3009 as it was in the mid 1930's as I wanted him to paint it but also stipulated I wanted it lined.  It is obvious looking again at the picture that the loco was not lined by the time the picture was taken.  I'm still getting my head around many things LNER and I think I got tripped up by some narrative saying that after 1930 the LNER stopped lining out the J1's, so as Clayton is set around 1930 I took the opportunity to have a lined model.

 

As to the position of the coal plate, as you said GN tenders are a real mine field.  The following part image is what I used for reference for the tool boxes and coal plate on 3009's tender.  The photo was one I picked up at a model railway exhibition so I don't have permission to share it, but hopefully this small section will be okay.  I'll remove if the copyright holder objects.  
895190164_J1ToolBoxandCoalPlate.jpg.32926ceda9c79c7f99667e835c39a0fc.jpg.       

The toolbox looks to be narrower than I've seen previously and cannot be seen to the right of the driver's head.

 

Keep your eyes pealed in the press for announcements from LRM about new kits.  You may get what you've hoped for.

 

Frank

 

 

Hi Frank

I've done a bit of research on 3009. According to the late Malcolm Crawley's GN Tender book 3009 was paired with tender 345 when it came out from its general on 22 Feb 1930. Tender 345 is a Type A 3170 gallon tender (Horseshoe) not fitted with water pick up. This accords with the photo in Yeadon of 3009 which is post the 1930 general and shows such a tender with the later position of the front coal plate. I presume the photo you posted part of is actually of 3009?

 

Please excuse my love of getting into the detail. Locally here in Adelaide I'm described as pedantic and of course a lot of my earlier modelling is not as a accurate as the more recent stuff - actually not all of the more recent stuff is either depending on what you start with!

 

The joys of trying to get it right! Whenever I can get to the UK again (???) I look forward to seeing the progress on Clayton since my visit back in 2017.

 

I'll also send you an email.

 

Regards

 

Andrew 

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5 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

Hi Frank

I've done a bit of research on 3009. According to the late Malcolm Crawley's GN Tender book 3009 was paired with tender 345 when it came out from its general on 22 Feb 1930. Tender 345 is a Type A 3170 gallon tender (Horseshoe) not fitted with water pick up. This accords with the photo in Yeadon of 3009 which is post the 1930 general and shows such a tender with the later position of the front coal plate. I presume the photo you posted part of is actually of 3009?

 

Please excuse my love of getting into the detail. Locally here in Adelaide I'm described as pedantic and of course a lot of my earlier modelling is not as a accurate as the more recent stuff - actually not all of the more recent stuff is either depending on what you start with!

 

The joys of trying to get it right! Whenever I can get to the UK again (???) I look forward to seeing the progress on Clayton since my visit back in 2017.

 

I'll also send you an email.

 

Regards

 

Andrew 

Hi Andrew,

I didn’t know about the alternate position for the coal plate and was guided by the instructions in the kit.  Too late now.  I think I’ll check with you first before I build any more models if that’s okay?  
I hope it won’t be too long before you can contemplate a visit to the UK.  As of now the earliest it is likely we’ll be allowed access to the club rooms will be May, and even then we may we’ll be limited with regards how many members will be allowed in at any one time.  

Regards,

Frank

 

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6 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

Hi Frank

I've done a bit of research on 3009. According to the late Malcolm Crawley's GN Tender book 3009 was paired with tender 345 when it came out from its general on 22 Feb 1930. Tender 345 is a Type A 3170 gallon tender (Horseshoe) not fitted with water pick up. This accords with the photo in Yeadon of 3009 which is post the 1930 general and shows such a tender with the later position of the front coal plate. I presume the photo you posted part of is actually of 3009?

 

Please excuse my love of getting into the detail. Locally here in Adelaide I'm described as pedantic and of course a lot of my earlier modelling is not as a accurate as the more recent stuff - actually not all of the more recent stuff is either depending on what you start with!

 

The joys of trying to get it right! Whenever I can get to the UK again (???) I look forward to seeing the progress on Clayton since my visit back in 2017.

 

I'll also send you an email.

 

Regards

 

Andrew 

Good morning Andrew,

 

If I were as diligent as you in my research, I'd discover that a lot of my modelling isn't as accurate as it should be. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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