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Whilst diesels are not generally my thing, I applaud that for the fact that it's a conversion that required thought, skill and effort, with a neat result, that has turned something RTR that was modest (possibly even cheap and cheerful) into something different, individual and better.

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7 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Whilst diesels are not generally my thing, I applaud that for the fact that it's a conversion that required thought, skill and effort, with a neat result, that has turned something RTR that was modest (possibly even cheap and cheerful) into something different, individual and better.

Thanks Graeme,

 

I'll tell David Rae. I don't think he does RMweb.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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51 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Oh I don't know. I think putting power sections into this layout might be a little OTT.  (I have suggested it!).

 

150183762_CDepot-Gland19-007-EditSm.jpg.d7cbbf6bfec9f5b79825d64542c514d7.jpg

I'm not fussy who plays with my trains set (obviously).

 

My first encounter with Roy was him shouting at me (me being Retford shunter 3rd class), he had a glint in his eye...something his daughters remembered fondly, you knew he liked you if his eyes glinted when he shouted at you!

 

If you ever stood in front of Retford and had a controller thrust into your hand and were asked to help with a shunting move, then that was the yard crew...during one lull in proceedings we even had the cheek to run our own train round the layout and back (only Mr Hall noticed)

 

Can't believe its been 2 years.

 

 

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As an aside and (hopefully) to move away from the DC/DCC debate, because we will never agree, has anybody been following the “kirtley Pete” thread of the model he is building of York station. 
Simply the most amazing modelling I think I’ve seen IMHO!!

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 Just a little question, if I may.  Regarding LNER 10000 in original grey livery. The lack of colour photographs (inevitably) of this loco, can someone please tell me if the bufferbeams were red, and if so were the buffer shanks black?

Thanks

Chas

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Something new (and unusual?) on Little Bytham today. 

 

1849795591_HornbyNBType2.jpg.a4e90c31b9077950199b0ac2f114a24f.jpg

 

This is a conversion from a Hornby NB diesel-hydraulic Type 2 into one of the (ill-fated) diesel-electric ones, completed by a friend.

 

He's done a lot of work on the original, and I think it looks quite presentable. No doubt Clive will tell us (I hope) what's wrong (or, with luck, what's right) with it.

 

With its original wheels opened out to the correct b-t-b and its flanges turned down, it actually works (astonishingly) well through all types of pointwork, even with its pancake-type motor.  Yes, I know the wheels should be spoked. 

I thought the Hornby one was the diesel-electric version. I remember making the hydraulic one by cutting something like an inch out of the Hornby model. It is a beautifully finished model regardless.

Robert

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14 minutes ago, Erichill16 said:

I thought the Hornby one was the diesel-electric version. I remember making the hydraulic one by cutting something like an inch out of the Hornby model. It is a beautifully finished model regardless.

Robert

Correct. The Hornby model was a sort of hybrid of a Pilot Scheme 21 as built and one rebuilt as a 29. I converted one to a 22 back in 1990, since superseded by the Dapol one.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Something new (and unusual?) on Little Bytham today. 

 

1849795591_HornbyNBType2.jpg.a4e90c31b9077950199b0ac2f114a24f.jpg

 

This is a conversion from a Hornby NB diesel-hydraulic Type 2 into one of the (ill-fated) diesel-electric ones, completed by a friend.

 

He's done a lot of work on the original, and I think it looks quite presentable. No doubt Clive will tell us (I hope) what's wrong (or, with luck, what's right) with it.

 

With its original wheels opened out to the correct b-t-b and its flanges turned down, it actually works (astonishingly) well through all types of pointwork, even with its pancake-type motor.  Yes, I know the wheels should be spoked. 

Hello Tony

 

As noted by Robert (Erichill16) the D61xx series were diesel-electric. 

 

As for what is wrong, it has the wrong radiator grill, only D6100-D6109 had the two part grill. Even they were replaced by the single grill before they were hid in the shed building at Peterborough New England.  The other main visual problem with the old Hornby model is the valances around the buffer beam. Here is a photo of D6100 after being banished north of that wall. https://rcts.zenfolio.com/diesel/br/locomotives/21/hA0FE4359#ha0fe4359

Edited by Clive Mortimore
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Whoops forgot to say the front end has been well modelled. Hornby having made a pigs ear of the model by having the front of a class 29 rebuild and the sides of a pilot scheme loco when new.

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6 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

As noted by Robert (Erichill16) the D61xx series were diesel-electric. 

 

As for what is wrong, it has the wrong radiator grill, only D6100-D6109 had the two part grill. Even they were replaced by the single grill before they were hid in the shed building at Peterborough New England.  The other main visual problem with the old Hornby model is the valances around the buffer beam. Here is a photo of D6100 after being banished north of that wall. https://rcts.zenfolio.com/diesel/br/locomotives/21/hA0FE4359#ha0fe4359

Many thanks Clive,

 

I was going on what the modifier told me. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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6 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Whoops forgot to say the front end has been well modelled. Hornby having made a pigs ear of the model by having the front of a class 29 rebuild and the sides of a pilot scheme loco when new.

Thanks again, Clive.

 

I was told the front end (and rear end, which is which?) had been extensively modified. 

 

Does Dapol produce such a loco today? Not that you've got one, I'd imagine - have you scratch-built one? 

 

Though they were originally employed on the southern end of the ECML, I never saw one in reality. I believe they were rapidly removed to 'home waters', much further north, such was their unreliability. I did see several examples of the WR hydraulic equivalents. Were they any better?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Posted (edited)

Not all that much!

 

I think it's fair (if not charitable) to say that diesels proved not to be North British's forte. 

 

John

 

Dapol have done the D61xx though the differences before/after rebuilding (or subsequent) are outside my range of knowledge. They had already made a pretty decent job of the D63xx hydraulics, so hopefully they are good too. Maybe Clive could comment? 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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8 hours ago, ScRSG said:

 Just a little question, if I may.  Regarding LNER 10000 in original grey livery. The lack of colour photographs (inevitably) of this loco, can someone please tell me if the bufferbeams were red, and if so were the buffer shanks black?

Thanks

Chas

Good morning Chas,

 

I honestly don't know................

 

I know one should never model from a model, but here are four interpretations.

 

736586723_LLovelessOgaugeW101.jpg.3945f7344fed88988db429ca6dd887f6.jpg

 

The Loveless RTR W1 in O Gauge.

 

394328887_W104.jpg.d7fbd95e0ad485253e92f1e5d1532e8a.jpg

 

And Nick Dunhill's O Gauge one, built (at least in part) from an ACE kit.

 

805995769_GresleyBeat04W1onexpress.jpg.33df66b8ddbe416e4d49ff36d1b5ddb7.jpg

 

Built from a SE Finecast kit ( think), running on The Gresley Beat. 

 

W1.jpg.337039e7cc0b46b80750ea1b04a5ef4b.jpg

 

And another SEF W1 (builder/painter unknown) which I had for sale. 

 

Not really conclusive at all, in fact, quite the opposite. As for which is the right 'battleship grey', well...............

 

The 'official' photograph on the cover of the SEF box for the kit has a grey front buffer beam.

 

Does anyone know what Hornby has done with regard to its forthcoming RTR examples?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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Photographs of ‘Hush Hush’ show that it had ‘No.10000’ painted on the front buffer beam in typical LNER style. 

 

I’m not aware of any other LNER loco that displayed its number on a buffer beam painted in any other colour than red, but my knowledge is far from exhaustive on the subject.

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2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Not all that much!

 

I think it's fair (if not charitable) to say that diesels proved not to be North British's forte. 

 

John

 

Dapol have done the D61xx though the differences before/after rebuilding (or subsequent) are outside my range of knowledge. They had already made a pretty decent job of the D63xx hydraulics, so hopefully they are good too. Maybe Clive could comment? 

The class 21s and 22s were built when North British were going downhill.  I was told that they were sent to Swindon for a general overhaul before entering service.

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There's a model of the Hush Hush in the NRM annexe which is (as I recall) roughly contemporary with the original.   You'd assume that that was painted to match, as the builder would have known and be able to look at the real one.   How are the buffer beams treated on that?

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24 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

There's a model of the Hush Hush in the NRM annexe which is (as I recall) roughly contemporary with the original.   You'd assume that that was painted to match, as the builder would have known and be able to look at the real one.   How are the buffer beams treated on that?

ISTR that there's one in Darlington, in the excellent "Head of Steam" museum, too?

 

Mark

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Posted (edited)

The contemporary Wills cigarette card of Hush Hush shows the buffer beam as red although I appreciate that is hardly a definitive historical record!  Presumably the illustration was produced with some reference to the subject.  

 

https://br.pinterest.com/pin/664773594993748068/

 

Also, there is a large head on shot of the locomotive in (the rather excellent) LNER Reflections published by SLP all those years ago.   This clearly shows the front buffer beam and housings in a very light tone particularly compared with the tone of the buffer heads and smokebox.

 

Alan

Edited by PupCam
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Posted (edited)

 

Re Hush Hush,

 

This one has come around again. A couple of points please.

 

The Bufferbeam on the real loco was painted grey. The Loveless example that Tony photographed and often posts, is a pre production model. The completed model offered for sale, had the corrected grey bufferbeam and light grey shaded lettering.

 

There is only one truly contemporary model of the Hush Hush, this was built by the Darlington apprentices at the same time as the real locomotive. It used the identical paint as the real thing.

 

https://www.deviantart.com/stumm47/art/LNER-10000-115616879

 

Unfortunately, the locomotive was damaged in a fire at Darlington works. As part of the insurance claim, the loco model was repainted but in a scheme that did not match the original. The original paint specification and paint chips for Hush Hush does survive, so there is no excuse to get it wrong today.

 

The O gauge Ace kit example is to light and probably based on the repainted Darlington apprentice model. However, it does have a few features that were correct for a short time. Some of the black areas such as the roof were present when the loco made its first run when it was delivered by rail, it is possible the grey finish was incomplete at this time as it appears to be matt. Also missing on this first run was the large grab handle mounted on the front platform, as is correctly absent from the model. The black areas were quickly painted out grey before it began its proper mainline trials and operation. The only black areas to remain so painted, were the backhead, the inside of the coal space and the water filler space.

 

P.S. Hush Hush was not painted 'Battleship grey', there is no such thing as 'Battleship grey'. Battleships were painted so many shades of grey, you would soon run out of fingers and toes trying to count them all.

Edited by Headstock
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image.png.e0c8e499aefb8eefa947c613d9575727.png

My (not brilliant) photo of the model Hush Hush in the Head Of Steam Museum, Darlington. The Model was apparently built by Apprentices at Darlington Works and would presumably show the correct livery, though I understand it may have been repainted at some time.  The buffer stocks appear to be the same shade of grey as the overall superstructure.

 

I originally posted this on the Hornby 'Hush Hush' thread where the precise shade of grey was under discussion.

           

Regards,

 

                John

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4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Not all that much!

 

I think it's fair (if not charitable) to say that diesels proved not to be North British's forte. 

 

John

 

Dapol have done the D61xx though the differences before/after rebuilding (or subsequent) are outside my range of knowledge. They had already made a pretty decent job of the D63xx hydraulics, so hopefully they are good too. Maybe Clive could comment? 

 

I've one of the Dapol D63xx/class 22s - I seem to recall I won it in a raffle. Here's what it looks like:

 

827662308_2019-12-04-16_35.00ZSPMaxrep.jpg.d403aa9589180773df94d910321adffa.jpg

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22 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Re Hush Hush,

 

This one has come around again. A couple of points please.

 

The Bufferbeam on the real loco was painted grey. The Loveless example that Tony photographed and often posts, is a pre production model. The completed model offered for sale, had the corrected grey bufferbeam and light grey shaded lettering.

 

There is only one truly contemporary model of the Hush Hush, this was built by the Darlington apprentices at the same time as the real locomotive. It used the identical paint as the real thing.

 

https://www.deviantart.com/stumm47/art/LNER-10000-115616879

 

Unfortunately, the locomotive was damaged in a fire at Darlington works. As part of the insurance claim, the loco model was repainted but in a scheme that did not match the original. The original paint specification and paint chips for Hush Hush does survive, so there is no excuse to get it wrong today.

 

The O gauge Ace kit example is to light and probably based on the repainted Darlington apprentice model. However, it does have a few features that were correct for a short time. Some of the black areas such as the roof were present when the loco made its first run when it was delivered by rail, it is possible the grey finish was incomplete at this time as it appears to be matt. Also missing on this first run was the large grab handle mounted on the front platform, as is correctly absent from the model. The black areas were quickly painted out grey before it began its proper mainline trials and operation. The only black areas to remain so painted, were the backhead, the inside of the coal space and the water filler space.

 

P.S. Hush Hush was not painted 'Battleship grey', there is no such thing as 'Battleship grey'. Battleships were painted so many shades of grey, you would soon run out of fingers and toes trying to count them all.

Good morning Andrew,

 

I think you've provided the 'definitive' answer; thank you.

 

The reason I use my images from time to time is because the question keeps cropping up (I, obviously, have no prototype pictures). 

 

My mention of 'battleship grey' is because that is the colour described in so many publications. What was its official description? 

 

Another question? What is the origin of the loco's nickname? In the early '70s, I taught with a guy whose father had worked on 10000, and he said the name came from the 'secrecy' surrounding its building. However, a (late) professional railwayman I spoke to decades ago, who'd actually fired it, said it was because of the sound it made when running.

 

Interesting.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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