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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've just been asked a question by Jesse, from Australia. 

 

For the sake of all, I'd like to clarify my answer here. He'd like to repaint a damaged Hornby A2/2 into wartime black and asked (more or less) how authentic that might be. My answer, which appears to have ruined his day, was 'not authentic at all'. 

 

Hornby's A2/2s represent (respectively) how four of the class might have looked in the early-'50s and how one of the class looked in 1959. That is, as refurbished with Peppercorn boilers or a Thompson boiler. Thus, none is suitable for painting into LNER unlined black. 

 

Had Hornby made models of (what became) 60503 and 60504, then, with minor alterations, any of the class could be represented in LNER black, LNER green or BR green (up to the early-'50s in the case of 60501/2/5/6). Some commentators think that's what the firm should have done, but it takes into account none of the commonalities between the A2/2s and the A2/3s. 

 

I've seen so many A2/2 models where these differences have not been taken into account (mainly Millholme, which are rubbish at source, anyway - not the whole range of kits, just the A2/2 and A2/3 ones; see my picture of 60520 some pages back). 

 

So, by way of a visual explanation to clarify the differences..............

 

1663008440_6050404.jpg.27ff4ccfd3e2da8176cc13c0414f40e1.jpg

 

I built this example from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it.

 

60504 is 'representative' of all the class on rebuilding (other than it was painted black first). Please note longer smokebox, short central footplate section, boiler divided into four sections, slightly higher main handrail and full, 'V'-fronted cab. Without series alterations, this can not be done using the Hornby model. Why not?

 

1263296370_HornbyA226050206onlayout.jpg.c0fade37227f4279a35fa610291711f5.jpg

 

Because, please note, shorter smokebox, longer central footplate section, boiler divided into five sections, slightly lower main handrail and cut-back, partially 'V'-fronted cab (with the safety valves outside the roof). 

 

I modified this from a Hornby 60501. It featured recently in BRM. 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

A flawed design, not enough armour above the centre cylinder.

 

But seriously, is it me or is the tender flat sided, should it not curve in at the cab end. I think you should chop off the streamlined fairing.

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The fun continues.

 

This is the stack of etched carriage and sides underframes and wagon kits that are in clearly marked packaging. The photo does not really convey the height of the Comet stack - probably about 3 or 4 inches. Also a solitary D&S kit:

51245637499_fd41ed00d9_c.jpgIMG_0983m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

These are the boxes of miscellaneous etches, mostly unmarked, and mostly various carriage or wagon components, amongst other things including what looks like a very old kit for a short Gresley open third. Also some Bill Bedford etched bogie frame kits and other bits:

51244872586_141fbab468_c.jpgIMG_0984m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

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On 11/06/2021 at 00:21, Bulwell Hall said:

 

I couldn't agree more.  I visited there with my son in 2019 and we arrived not too long after it had opened for the day - and were asked to leave at the end of the day as they wanted to close up and go home!

 

Gerry

Also agree, we called in for the afternoon a couple of years back when on a Home Counties holiday break and then went back the following day instead of what had been the following day’s outing.

 

Re the Hood, slightly O.T but an earlier navy vessel carrying the same name was sunk here on Portland as a block ship across one of the breakwater entrances. A regular for divers until recently when corrosion has rendered it unsafe to dive on.

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38 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

A flawed design, not enough armour above the centre cylinder.

 

But seriously, is it me or is the tender flat sided, should it not curve in at the cab end. I think you should chop off the streamlined fairing.

Good evening Andrew,

 

60502's tender sides do curve in a little at the front. And, yes, the fairing needs to go.......................

 

I've no wish to prolong the discussions about Hood's destruction. However, though her armour was 'improved' during her construction (making her heavier and even more of a 'wet' ship), I think it's accepted by most historians that the Navy knew about her potential vulnerability to heavy-calibre shells. Indeed, during the Denmark Strait action, Holland wished to close the range as quickly as possible to mitigate this (thus halving Hood's firepower). I think I'd agree it was probably a shot in a million which caused her to blow up. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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39 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

The fun continues.

 

This is the stack of etched carriage and sides underframes and wagon kits that are in clearly marked packaging. The photo does not really convey the height of the Comet stack - probably about 3 or 4 inches. Also a solitary D&S kit:

51245637499_fd41ed00d9_c.jpgIMG_0983m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

These are the boxes of miscellaneous etches, mostly unmarked, and mostly various carriage or wagon components, amongst other things including what looks like a very old kit for a short Gresley open third. Also some Bill Bedford etched bogie frame kits and other bits:

51244872586_141fbab468_c.jpgIMG_0984m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Thanks for showing us these Robert,

 

Are some of them coming my way?

 

The short Gresley TO is indeed an old kit (as the box states, made by RoCoM - not to be confused with Rocar).

 

544164124_ROCOMTO.jpg.d0046a03361d8f3dc572050d860dc114.jpg

 

I built one years ago (not a bad kit, but no provisions made for door bumps or hinges). The firm also produced a short BTK of the same style.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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8 hours ago, robertcwp said:

But still some hours to regauge, fit 3-link couplings and weather. 

I’ve only managed to do four so far and I’ve yet to weather those.

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On 11/06/2021 at 11:26, Northmoor said:

Since Hood was sunk by "plunging" shells, was it only a matter of time before the weakness would have been found out in the way other battleships were, usurped by air power? 

Were the Navy (in fact most Navies of the world) too slow to accept that control of the skies meant control of the seas as well? 

The Luftwaffe sank plenty of ships on the Russian convoy routes; if they had found Hood and Prince of Wales, no doubt they would have been able to inflict some serious damage.  It was of course air power that sank the PoW in the Japanese theatre.

Interesting that here on Portland we have the remains of the High Angle battery, a mid-Victorian build that fired shells up into the air, at a “high angle” to drop the shell on the ship. If you think of a Stuka dive bomber the high angle was the British land based equivalent. OH yes and the HAB does have a railway connection - surviving tracks to feed the shells. My notes and a site sketch are here.

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50 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

The fun continues.

 

This is the stack of etched carriage and sides underframes and wagon kits that are in clearly marked packaging. The photo does not really convey the height of the Comet stack - probably about 3 or 4 inches. Also a solitary D&S kit:

51245637499_fd41ed00d9_c.jpgIMG_0983m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

These are the boxes of miscellaneous etches, mostly unmarked, and mostly various carriage or wagon components, amongst other things including what looks like a very old kit for a short Gresley open third. Also some Bill Bedford etched bogie frame kits and other bits:

51244872586_141fbab468_c.jpgIMG_0984m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Crikey - fun indeed.

 

Those BB LMS Period II sides immediately catch the eye. D.1707 Semi-First Open?

 

Form an orderly queue for the Jidenco wagon kits ...

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14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for showing us these Robert,

 

Are some of them coming my way?

 

The short Gresley TO is indeed an old kit (as the box states, made by RoCoM - not to be confused with Rocar).

 

544164124_ROCOMTO.jpg.d0046a03361d8f3dc572050d860dc114.jpg

 

I built one years ago (not a bad kit, but no provisions made for door bumps or hinges). The firm also produced a short BTK of the same style.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks, some might come your way eventually. 

 

I was thinking of having a short Gresley open second in maroon for my own layout and was wondering how best to do it. 

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27 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Crikey - fun indeed.

 

Those BB LMS Period II sides immediately catch the eye. D.1707 Semi-First Open?

 

Form an orderly queue for the Jidenco wagon kits ...

There is a wide assortment of LMS carriage sides from all three main periods. Some types are now covered by very good RTR, eg the porthole stock, but there are lots of others. I found sides and underframes for LMS articulated stock and for two-window stock amongst other things, but not much in the way of catering vehicles. The sides etc are now stored until other things are literally out of the way, such as the five boxes of loco kits and bits and most if not all of the RTR stuff, which is in 20+ boxes around my house. 

 

I have spend most of this evening sorting out carriages. I have found that boxes and contents don't match for some of them and also that a few are defective in some way, mostly windows fallen out of Bachmann Mark 1s.

 

I'm not expecting Jidenco to sell, but if anyone want's a Jidenco Crab, I found one.

 

In amongst the MJT sides was a pair for a Gresley restaurant first, which might find their way to Retford, which has only one of the type at the moment and two rather ancient Thompson ones which are conversions of old Tri-ang Mark 1 stock it seems and that are in need of replacement.

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Clarify a point.
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On 12/06/2021 at 08:00, robertcwp said:

 

Tony has already published a list of what I have passed to him.

 

As for the remainder, yes, once I have listed it all out. That won't be for a while because I have lots of RTR stock to shift one way or another first. Lots of that, principally the old Mainline, Dapol, Lima, etc stock, has not been listed out yet and is currently parked in the loft out of the way. Even for the newer things, the list is very long. Most will probably be sold in bulk to dealers.

 

I'm not sure what to do with all the plastic wagon kits. I have a very large box full of Parkside ones of various vintages and several smaller boxes with Red Panda, Chivers, Slaters, Ratio and possibly other makes. 

 

Then there is the stack of etched carriage sides and loco parts such as frames.

 

There are also boxes full of RTR loco bodies, most of which seem to be of older, now superseded, models, and probably not of much use.

Anything maybe of use to somebody.

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9 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Thanks, some might come your way eventually. 

 

I was thinking of having a short Gresley open second in maroon for my own layout and was wondering how best to do it. 

I'd build the RoCoM kit, Robert.

 

Or, how about Brian? He'd find it a doddle.

 

I have to say, what an extraordinarily eclectic mix of kits. Three DJH 'River' kits? I've sold one, still got one here and you've found another. 

 

I've only ever seen one made-up and running on a layout (other than the one I built years ago for a late friend, a picture of which appeared in the early days of BRM). 

 

1803044396_Eaglesham06.jpg.0f3244aacce7bb67b0aea29012bd2f98.jpg

 

Running on Eaglesham (it appeared in the RM a little while ago). 

 

I remember a 'River' (years before DJH) running on Gavin Wilson's stud-contact Highland Railway layout. 

 

Has anyone else made one? 

 

Three DJH 'Rivers' and two DJH 2-10-0 'Austerities' (one now sold)? The time period to be depicted must have been very flexible...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

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21 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

We will indeed!

 

It poses the question, at least to me, just how many collections of un-built kits and untouched RTR there might be out there. Hundreds? Thousands?

 

Is there a type who just collects kits, but never builds them? I know there are collectors who won't breach the packaging of their RTR items; to do so would devalue them, apparently (I don't 'get' that at all). Just collecting kits seems very different to me. 

 

In my own case, though I suppose I 'collect' kits in a way, I then build them. During the lockdowns, my 'strategic reserve' was heavily eaten into, and I've had to replenish it (20 loco kits didn't last long!). 

 

There's also the type who just 'collects' models built for him/her. Such a person, either through lack of skill or time, cannot build for themselves, so they commission such items. More often than not, these models never run because their home is exclusively a glass cabinet (which seems a shame to me). I have to collect a collection of such (locomotive) models on behalf of a widow. Though 'professionally-built/-painted' for her late husband, I have no idea how these run. In my experience, many don't run very well, though they look pretty. I'll be checking these out and posting pictures soon. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Where plastic kits (mainly of wagons) are concerned, I generally stock up when they are first released. The moulds are never going to get cleaner or crisper with age*. My to-do stash therefore fills most of a 35-litre Really Useful Box.

 

* That view has been reinforced several times by the travails of getting a few obsolete ones obtained at exhibitions and swapmeets to go together square!   

 

John

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21 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

We will indeed!

 

It poses the question, at least to me, just how many collections of un-built kits and untouched RTR there might be out there. Hundreds? Thousands?

 

Is there a type who just collects kits, but never builds them? I know there are collectors who won't breach the packaging of their RTR items; to do so would devalue them, apparently (I don't 'get' that at all). Just collecting kits seems very different to me. 

 

In my own case, though I suppose I 'collect' kits in a way, I then build them. During the lockdowns, my 'strategic reserve' was heavily eaten into, and I've had to replenish it (20 loco kits didn't last long!). 

 

There's also the type who just 'collects' models built for him/her. Such a person, either through lack of skill or time, cannot build for themselves, so they commission such items. More often than not, these models never run because their home is exclusively a glass cabinet (which seems a shame to me). I have to collect a collection of such (locomotive) models on behalf of a widow. Though 'professionally-built/-painted' for her late husband, I have no idea how these run. In my experience, many don't run very well, though they look pretty. I'll be checking these out and posting pictures soon. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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33 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

They seems to sell well on Ebay.

 

CJI.

Thanks, I shall have a look. That might be an outlet for the more specialised things that don't sell by other means.

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9 hours ago, john new said:

Anything maybe of use to somebody.

Indeed, but the problem is fitting in how to find that somebody and get things to them when I have an almost full time job to do and lots of other things going on. 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Three DJH 'Rivers' and two DJH 2-10-0 'Austerities' (one now sold)? The time period to be depicted must have been very flexible...................

 

And some 1980s Inter-City livery Mark 1 stock and blue/grey and a Network SouthEast DMU.

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23 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Indeed, but the problem is fitting in how to find that somebody and get things to them when I have an almost full time job to do and lots of other things going on. 

Agree, not criticising you for not listing things individually.

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15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've just been asked a question by Jesse, from Australia. 

 

For the sake of all, I'd like to clarify my answer here. He'd like to repaint a damaged Hornby A2/2 into wartime black and asked (more or less) how authentic that might be. My answer, which appears to have ruined his day, was 'not authentic at all'. 

 

Hornby's A2/2s represent (respectively) how four of the class might have looked in the early-'50s and how one of the class looked in 1959. That is, as refurbished with Peppercorn boilers or a Thompson boiler. Thus, none is suitable for painting into LNER unlined black. 

 

Had Hornby made models of (what became) 60503 and 60504, then, with minor alterations, any of the class could be represented in LNER black, LNER green or BR green (up to the early-'50s in the case of 60501/2/5/6). Some commentators think that's what the firm should have done, but it takes into account none of the commonalities between the A2/2s and the A2/3s. 

 

I've seen so many A2/2 models where these differences have not been taken into account (mainly Millholme, which are rubbish at source, anyway - not the whole range of kits, just the A2/2 and A2/3 ones; see my picture of 60520 some pages back). 

 

So, by way of a visual explanation to clarify the differences..............

 

1663008440_6050404.jpg.27ff4ccfd3e2da8176cc13c0414f40e1.jpg

 

I built this example from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it.

 

60504 is 'representative' of all the class on rebuilding (other than it was painted black first). Please note longer smokebox, short central footplate section, boiler divided into four sections, slightly higher main handrail and full, 'V'-fronted cab. Without series alterations, this can not be done using the Hornby model. Why not?

 

1263296370_HornbyA226050206onlayout.jpg.c0fade37227f4279a35fa610291711f5.jpg

 

Because, please note, shorter smokebox, longer central footplate section, boiler divided into five sections, slightly lower main handrail and cut-back, partially 'V'-fronted cab (with the safety valves outside the roof). 

 

I modified this from a Hornby 60501. It featured recently in BRM. 

 

 

I cried for hours after that email Tony! 

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12 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The fun continues.

 

This is the stack of etched carriage and sides underframes and wagon kits that are in clearly marked packaging. The photo does not really convey the height of the Comet stack - probably about 3 or 4 inches. Also a solitary D&S kit:

51245637499_fd41ed00d9_c.jpgIMG_0983m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

These are the boxes of miscellaneous etches, mostly unmarked, and mostly various carriage or wagon components, amongst other things including what looks like a very old kit for a short Gresley open third. Also some Bill Bedford etched bogie frame kits and other bits:

51244872586_141fbab468_c.jpgIMG_0984m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Shot gun the Jidenco kits, no take backs, no do overs! 

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3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Indeed, but the problem is fitting in how to find that somebody and get things to them when I have an almost full time job to do and lots of other things going on. 

Very true Robert,

 

At the moment (including the items from you) I've got five 'collections' to find new homes for, for all the usual reasons. There's another lot to collect in the next fortnight.

 

Fortunately, Elaine (of Elaine's Trains) is collecting the RTR from from me this week (she always gives a fair price), so a box or two (or three!) will be gone. She might be worth a call with regard to how much RTR stuff you have. 

 

I'm sure folk realise how much time has to be spent finding new homes on behalf of families, but it's all in a good cause. Thankfully, I still have enough space to store stuff.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

I take it the same can be said for 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' Apple Green?

Afraid so Dylan..................

 

By the way, Tom showed me some stuff he's done/doing for you. Very nice! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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