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20 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Clem,

 

I've been adding a batch of the new Parkside hoppers to my gypsum train, another East Midlands special. They compliment the Bradwell version of these wagons quite nicely. I've added a coupe of details not found in the kit, the face plates to the solebar support brackets and the additional bracing, along the lower edge and the end corners the hopper body. I have loped off the buffers and these will be replaced with more robust HD types. I think that it may also be worth adding more detail to, or replacing the axle boxes.

13 tn hopper.jpg

 

I think I agree with you re: the axleboxes as they don't seem to match those fitted to Dia 1/142 vehicles. Also the images I can find for this diagram show the 'W' irons have hook holes on them which the model doesn't although a solitary image of a very similar Dia 1/144 on Paul Bartlett's website show 'W' irons without them (Lot 2282 built by Pickering). Another small visible difference with the latter diagram is that the end step has an open support frame rather than the sheet steel variant as in the kit.

 

One feature of the kit that doesn't look right to me is the steel plate fitted to the ends - on the prototype this sits almost flush with the solebar / headstock but on the model they appear to be sat on top of them and being relatively thick (I'm guessing approx. 1mm or so) then it gives a stepped platform effect. This in turn presumably  leads to the inclined hopper end supports being a little shorter than is the case.  The vertical handrail also appears to be on more of an angle on the model so maybe an issue with the relative dimensions of the Hopper v Chassis?

 

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2 hours ago, SP Steve said:

 

I think I agree with you re: the axleboxes as they don't seem to match those fitted to Dia 1/142 vehicles. Also the images I can find for this diagram show the 'W' irons have hook holes on them which the model doesn't although a solitary image of a very similar Dia 1/144 on Paul Bartlett's website show 'W' irons without them (Lot 2282 built by Pickering). Another small visible difference with the latter diagram is that the end step has an open support frame rather than the sheet steel variant as in the kit.

 

One feature of the kit that doesn't look right to me is the steel plate fitted to the ends - on the prototype this sits almost flush with the solebar / headstock but on the model they appear to be sat on top of them and being relatively thick (I'm guessing approx. 1mm or so) then it gives a stepped platform effect. This in turn presumably  leads to the inclined hopper end supports being a little shorter than is the case.  The vertical handrail also appears to be on more of an angle on the model so maybe an issue with the relative dimensions of the Hopper v Chassis?

 

 

Good afternoon SP Steve,

 

many century's ago, we secured a set of GA drawings for this hopper, knowing that they would be required at some point. The drawings were given to Dave Bradwell, who already produced a kit of the PO version. The type was a feature of railways throughout the NE of England. He worked off the drawings to produce his own kit of the BR version and it is still in production. 

 

As far as I recall, a couple of buffer and axle box types were fitted at one time or another to the prototype, the current kit doesn't represent any genuine set of axle boxes or buffers particularly well. The Bradwell kit required the modeler to source their own castings for springs, buffers and axle boxes via MJT, I have an order in with them at the moment The axleboxes on my prototypes seem mostly to be the type fitted to LNER 21 ton hoppers. Parkside did these rather well with a separate cover plate on the sprue, a shame they are now missing from this most recent kit.

 

Re the end platforms, they do sit on top of the solebar but they are just thin metal plate. This is replicated rather well in the Bradwell kit, as it is etched brass. The platforms are understandably over thick in the kit, being of moulded plastic. A diligent modeler could replace them with thinner plastic sheet if they required. However, that would require altering the hopper strengthening supports not a big job, unless you are planning to build ten or twenty. One further note on the platforms, they were painted body colour grey not underframe black.

 

The vertical handrail should lean out slightly, I seem to recall it is actually welded to the horizontal grab rail but I may be thinking of another hopper, there is a noticeable kink at the base of the handrail just above the platform and it steps out quite a bit from the hopper end. One thing that is not made clear, is the position of the hopper body support brackets for the horizontal grab handle, they should be positioned more out towards the sides of the hopper than the indication marks on the hopper slope that some have pointed too.

 

Apart from the missing strapping and other things I mentioned in my earlier post, I would regard these kits as great value for money and a great time saver. They are more complicated and require more time and effort than some other kits in the range and reward a bit of extra detailing.

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20 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I thought I'd crack on with adding transfers to my S&DJR coaches last night, so I opened up the HMRS Methfix sheet I ordered last year. I know this has been mentioned on Wright Writes before, but when I finally got a good look at the transfers, they were atrocious. The white part of the printing was about a mm out of register with where it should be, meaning that at least the S&D part of the sheet was unusable.

 

 I've contacted HMRS to see what they say, but since I had this sent to me last year, it's presumably of a recent batch and about as good as it's going to get.

 

Unfortunately the HMRS Midland sheet seems to be the only source of S&D carriage transfers in 4mm.

That's disappointing Al,

 

My issue regarding the HMRS transfers was with the BR 'Pressfix' sheet (114, I think). I'd bought some new sheets just before the first lockdown last year and two out of three weren't good (numbers too thick, reluctance to leave the sheet after wetting, large glue 'halo', etc), but the third (from a different source) was fine; obviously not from the same batch.

 

It does seem to be very hit and miss with these transfers.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

That's disappointing Al,

 

My issue regarding the HMRS transfers was with the BR 'Pressfix' sheet (114, I think). I'd bought some new sheets just before the first lockdown last year and two out of three weren't good (numbers too thick, reluctance to leave the sheet after wetting, large glue 'halo', etc), but the third (from a different source) was fine; obviously not from the same batch.

 

It does seem to be very hit and miss with these transfers.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

I have never had any issues with Fox Transferes and use them all the time.

 

Regards

 

David

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1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

I have never had any issues with Fox Transferes and use them all the time.

 

Regards

 

David

Thanks David,

 

I assume they do S&D sheets?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks David,

 

I assume they do S&D sheets?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I don’t think they do, PC as far as I know are the only commercially available transfers.

 

*See @queensquare below 

Edited by PMP
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4 minutes ago, PMP said:

I don’t think they do, PC as far as I know are the only commercially available transfers.

 

Railtec now do SDJR loco and wagon transfers. They  were developed for 2mm use but I believe are available in the larger scales - they are excellent. None specifically for coaches but the loco sheet does include the coat of arms.

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4426

 

Barry, I'm sure I have an old 4mm Midland and constituents HMRS sheet in my transfer stash, if I can find it and it has the bits you need on it you are more than welcome to it.

 

Jerry

 

 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, queensquare said:

 

Railtec now do SDJR loco and wagon transfers. They  were developed for 2mm use but I believe are available in the larger scales - they are excellent. None specifically for coaches but the loco sheet does include the coat of arms.

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4426

 

Barry, I'm sure I have an old 4mm Midland and constituents HMRS sheet in my transfer stash, if I can find it and it has the bits you need on it you are more than welcome to it.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

When time permits(!) there will be a parallel sheet for coaches to sit alongside the packs currently available for locos and wagons in 2mm, 4mm and 7mm. However I have no idea when a coach pack will be available. It'll need extensive research, design and testing.

 

The wagon and loco packs took an excruciating length of time to R&D and test, particularly to get looking right in 2mm - which was the most challenging piece. The detail on the shadings and the crest itself though is exquisite and can be appreciated particularly in larger scales. The packs are of course spot printed (so no superfluous carrier film), don't have any halo around them, utilise the full CMYK palette and consistently have perfect print registration. Other similar pre-grouping topics such as MR et al will be expanded upon in due course and get the full Railtec treatment.

Edited by railtec-models
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23 minutes ago, railtec-models said:

Other similar pre-grouping topics such as MR et al will be expanded upon in due course and get the full Railtec treatment.

 

I believe* that the lettering of S&DJR carriages was the same as that of the Midland (pre-1905), with the exception of the different initials and coats-of-arms - identical FIRST, THIRD, etc. lettering and running number numerals 2" high.

 

*Confirmed by a quick thumb-through Midland Style.

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I haven't completely given up on N/2mm modelling and over the weekend I spent a few hours putting together some NGS kits of bogie flat wagons (although stopping to watch the football). They're not finished but here's how far I've got (and yep, I've noticed that one of the bolster stanchion pins has fallen out):

 

DSC02018red.jpg.5e5959aabadb6484ba28013d2422a60f.jpg

 

 

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4 hours ago, queensquare said:

 

Railtec now do SDJR loco and wagon transfers. They  were developed for 2mm use but I believe are available in the larger scales - they are excellent. None specifically for coaches but the loco sheet does include the coat of arms.

https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=4426

 

Barry, I'm sure I have an old 4mm Midland and constituents HMRS sheet in my transfer stash, if I can find it and it has the bits you need on it you are more than welcome to it.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

Many thanks, Jerry - that would be very kind. PM on its way.

 

best,

 

Al

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3 hours ago, railtec-models said:

 

When time permits(!) there will be a parallel sheet for coaches to sit alongside the packs currently available for locos and wagons in 2mm, 4mm and 7mm. However I have no idea when a coach pack will be available. It'll need extensive research, design and testing.

 

 

 

 

That's excellent news. I was in conversation with another modeller and we were considering approaching you with an interest to commissioning coach artwork.

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks David,

 

I assume they do S&D sheets?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

please forgive my ignorance but what are S&D sheets?

 

Regards

 

David

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Somerset & Dorset, David.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

I had a look on Fox Transferes website they do a large selection of Railway Companies Transferes but unfortunately I could not see anything relating to the S&D.

 

Regards

 

David

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1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

I had a look on Fox Transferes website they do a large selection of Railway Companies Transferes but unfortunately I could not see anything relating to the S&D.

 

Regards

 

David

 

There's just the HMRS sheet and the aforementioned Rail-tec ones, unfortunately. In a way you can understand it as the S&D coach kits have been out of production for a long time so other than scratchbuilders, there can't be an enormous demand for the transfers. However, perhaps that will change with the various six-wheelers being offered by Hattons and Hornby.

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34 minutes ago, kingfisher24 said:

I have perhaps put some of these up before but think someone may appreciate them. So I’m posting a couple of the models I’ve made. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some wonderfully creative modelling there. I don't know the prototypes but the end results certainly look "right". I'm glad the modelling helped you through a difficult time.

 

 

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10 hours ago, kingfisher24 said:

Well this place has indeed been busy since I was last on. I’ve not been on rmweb since December last year. Which indeed is when I last did any real modelling, well other than in the mind ofcourse. Unfortunately my mother passed away on two days before Christmas and then my second and hopefully final wedding on the 31st of the same month. Then moving house twice in six months. All that has left no time for anything, barely time to scratch anything! Mind having said that I spend 80% of my working days sat on it driving so no chance haha.

it’s nice to see so many projects on the go. 
I cannot wait for shows to start again, indeed the last show I was Model Rail Scotland 2020 where Tony I had the pleasure of running some of your models on my clubs Newcastleton layout. After more than 15 weeks of being stuck in the house wasn’t exactly good for the old mental health when I had dementia to deal with on a daily basis. Literally the only thing that kept me going and occupied was my modelling. So I gained three Nu Cast V2’s, together with and A3. All of which were bought cheap (via a certain well known auction site) and I put my scratch building head on and made a NBR class C16 from a Hornby Adams radial tank chassis and a much butchered triang m7 body. This cost me next to nothing and I’m very pleased with it. I’ve since got hold of another chassis to do another when I have the time.  
I have perhaps put some of these up before but think someone may appreciate them. So I’m posting a couple of the models I’ve made. 

 

3CF688C3-8E2E-4F4C-A257-261C0ED619BC.jpeg

15663773-12AA-43C1-9437-CE9063E25B74.jpeg

F0AF74AB-04FC-494E-B9DE-7EB978378FB7.jpeg

6F1FC0CC-8F9B-467D-B825-1F05B0BC1190.jpeg

BB401702-E897-4F94-B930-0DB184D88E68.jpeg

F2032B55-2A4A-4CA1-B756-F49B3FA65DB7.jpeg

E1DD79D6-434E-4C1C-9227-417F7A43EF2B.jpeg

2F854FC8-12F5-4AE8-88C9-C70FAB592B8E.jpeg

48334D4F-3389-46D7-9BD4-9E929539E865.jpeg

A11E6CE3-11D5-41F6-983E-DE0360AA5567.jpeg

23291A17-5854-4D03-AC01-1B20B70549C5.jpeg

298A51D9-C1FB-4FFB-ADF7-290D362FF2AC.jpeg

0415CABA-591A-422B-B11A-40A5A9F7B5F0.jpeg

BDDFFE5A-51B8-420D-B143-F6CD77B695C8.jpeg

D5D00E6C-7B2D-423D-8A91-851C8A148F52.jpeg

6CF82368-3138-4F04-9D8A-799C89373A47.jpeg

031B0EB2-7A8D-4FA2-8F21-F2378787C9C7.jpeg

What wonderfully creative, inventive, economical and unique modelling.

 

Many, many thanks for showing us. 

 

It proves how this most hands-on hobby of ours can help us through difficult times.

 

Best regards,

 

Tony.  

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6 hours ago, Jack P said:

I was asked to work on my friends J70, as he wasn't overly enamored with the factory finish. 

 

51292674226_e49245933e_b.jpg

51292674061_ed9992f12a_b.jpg

51293390804_78c6c1d72a_b.jpg

 

Here's a close-up, excuse the fingerprint on the window! 

51293390469_e4e12c57c2_b.jpg

 

The finish was achieved using the Mike Trice method, followed by some gentle weathering. My friend is well pleased!

Great stuff Jack,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

You'll work your magic on that Quad-Art set when it arrives.............................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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13 hours ago, kingfisher24 said:

Well this place has indeed been busy since I was last on. I’ve not been on rmweb since December last year. Which indeed is when I last did any real modelling, well other than in the mind ofcourse. Unfortunately my mother passed away on two days before Christmas and then my second and hopefully final wedding on the 31st of the same month. Then moving house twice in six months. All that has left no time for anything, barely time to scratch anything! Mind having said that I spend 80% of my working days sat on it driving so no chance haha.

it’s nice to see so many projects on the go. 
I cannot wait for shows to start again, indeed the last show I was Model Rail Scotland 2020 where Tony I had the pleasure of running some of your models on my clubs Newcastleton layout. After more than 15 weeks of being stuck in the house wasn’t exactly good for the old mental health when I had dementia to deal with on a daily basis. Literally the only thing that kept me going and occupied was my modelling. So I gained three Nu Cast V2’s, together with and A3. All of which were bought cheap (via a certain well known auction site) and I put my scratch building head on and made a NBR class C16 from a Hornby Adams radial tank chassis and a much butchered triang m7 body. This cost me next to nothing and I’m very pleased with it. I’ve since got hold of another chassis to do another when I have the time.  
I have perhaps put some of these up before but think someone may appreciate them. So I’m posting a couple of the models I’ve made. 

 

3CF688C3-8E2E-4F4C-A257-261C0ED619BC.jpeg

15663773-12AA-43C1-9437-CE9063E25B74.jpeg

F0AF74AB-04FC-494E-B9DE-7EB978378FB7.jpeg

6F1FC0CC-8F9B-467D-B825-1F05B0BC1190.jpeg

BB401702-E897-4F94-B930-0DB184D88E68.jpeg

F2032B55-2A4A-4CA1-B756-F49B3FA65DB7.jpeg

E1DD79D6-434E-4C1C-9227-417F7A43EF2B.jpeg

2F854FC8-12F5-4AE8-88C9-C70FAB592B8E.jpeg

48334D4F-3389-46D7-9BD4-9E929539E865.jpeg

A11E6CE3-11D5-41F6-983E-DE0360AA5567.jpeg

23291A17-5854-4D03-AC01-1B20B70549C5.jpeg

298A51D9-C1FB-4FFB-ADF7-290D362FF2AC.jpeg

0415CABA-591A-422B-B11A-40A5A9F7B5F0.jpeg

BDDFFE5A-51B8-420D-B143-F6CD77B695C8.jpeg

D5D00E6C-7B2D-423D-8A91-851C8A148F52.jpeg

6CF82368-3138-4F04-9D8A-799C89373A47.jpeg

031B0EB2-7A8D-4FA2-8F21-F2378787C9C7.jpeg

I do like to see extensive and effective adaptation of inexpensive RTR items, especially in combination with some scratch building.

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On 04/07/2021 at 12:36, Headstock said:

 

Good afternoon Clem,

 

the Bradwell kits defeated me in terms of building them in quantity. I infilled with the Parkside 21 ton hoppers, nice kits and ok for a late period version of the train. I find late period modelling deeply unsatisfying, so the Parkside kit is a bit of a boon as they were brand new in 1949, though based on a PO design. 

 

The photo below is a very rare image of one of the Hotchley hill gypsum trains in operation, so rare, the author is indistinct to what it is. They were usually formatted with the 13 ton hoppers up front (southern end) a batch of GM opens and vans (often shock) in the middle. The GM opens were carrying bags of plaster and the vans carried plaster board respectively. The tail end was composed of standard mineral wagons, carrying processed gypsum like the hoppers. The choice of hopper or standard mineral was determined by the unloading arrangements at the journeys end for each raft of wagons. I know that some gypsum was bound for power stations and sometimes the hoppers were sheeted but I forget all the details now. If you look closely at the image, you can see the stripes on the end of a shock van beyond the hoppers.

 

When the train was being researched, we talked to the then Managing director of British gypsum at Hotchley hill. When he was a University student, his summer job was cleaning out  freshly dropped off 16 ton mineral wagon at Gotham sidings, so that they could be loaded with unadulterated gypsum from the mines down the branch. The 13 ton hoppers were only on the gypsum trains and each had ''return to East Leak'' painted on the sides.
 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/8707129257/in/album-72157629554560373/

 

 

 

Morning Andrew,

That's a great snippet of research you've done. I do (vaguely) remember the gypsum trains on the GC but I don't particularly remember the consist of them. I still have a big interest in the GC having lived in sight of the line from 1960-1966. If I remember correctly the locos on the gypsum trains were pretty varied : J6, J11, O4, J39 but they generally stood out as most of the freight was in the hands of the 9Fs apart from the York-Woodfords which were either B16s or V2s.

 

Anyway,  I'll be using the 13T to help pad out my ironstone trains although they were as common as the Chas Roberts and the ex-LMS hoppers. I can't fathom why no-one has done a kit for the LMS hoppers - they were so common both on ex-LNER and ex-LMS lines and I think some even got down to South Wales. Looks like I make have to bite the bullet sometime soon and do a batch scratch build.

 

By the way, are you getting back into the club premises yet?

 

Clem

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9 minutes ago, Clem said:

 

 

Morning Andrew,

That's a great snippet of research you've done. I do (vaguely) remember the gypsum trains on the GC but I don't particularly remember the consist of them. I still have a big interest in the GC having lived in sight of the line from 1960-1966. If I remember correctly the locos on the gypsum trains were pretty varied : J6, J11, O4, J39 but they generally stood out as most of the freight was in the hands of the 9Fs apart from the York-Woodfords which were either B16s or V2s.

 

Anyway,  I'll be using the 13T to help pad out my ironstone trains although they were as common as the Chas Roberts and the ex-LMS hoppers. I can't fathom why no-one has done a kit for the LMS hoppers - they were so common both on ex-LNER and ex-LMS lines and I think some even got down to South Wales. Looks like I make have to bite the bullet sometime soon and do a batch scratch build.

 

By the way, are you getting back into the club premises yet?

 

Clem

 

 

Seen pictures of ex LMS Iron Stone hoppers in Cornwall!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Clem said:

 

 

Morning Andrew,

That's a great snippet of research you've done. I do (vaguely) remember the gypsum trains on the GC but I don't particularly remember the consist of them. I still have a big interest in the GC having lived in sight of the line from 1960-1966. If I remember correctly the locos on the gypsum trains were pretty varied : J6, J11, O4, J39 but they generally stood out as most of the freight was in the hands of the 9Fs apart from the York-Woodfords which were either B16s or V2s.

 

Anyway,  I'll be using the 13T to help pad out my ironstone trains although they were as common as the Chas Roberts and the ex-LMS hoppers. I can't fathom why no-one has done a kit for the LMS hoppers - they were so common both on ex-LNER and ex-LMS lines and I think some even got down to South Wales. Looks like I make have to bite the bullet sometime soon and do a batch scratch build.

 

By the way, are you getting back into the club premises yet?

 

Clem

 

Good morning Clem,

 

the Gypsum train operations were quite complicated. The gypsum mines down the Gotham branch were located on the East side of the mainline and the British Gypsum works located at Hotchley hill on the west side of the main line. Empty hoppers would be returned to East leak on the East side and tripped on from there. Empty mineral wagons would be dropped off as required at Gotham sidings. Not the kind of thing that appeals to the East coast  boy racers or Edwardian Teflon livery fans but I find it interesting and it probably has more in common with your own modelling.

 

The 13 tonners were quite common on iron stone trains, I would imagine you could get away with four or even five in your rake. If you scratch build another LM hopper, I think you should look into the possibility of getting a resin casting done, then we can all have one!

 

As you noted, there was quite a variety of motive power on the Gypsum trains. I have a photo of an L1 galloping along with 13 ton hoppers in tow. The trains were required to fit into the regular schedule and operate at speed like any other runner. In my modelling time period, the train changed locomotives at Leicester south goods loop. This movement is replicated on Leicester South GC, with an Annesley J11/3 giving way to an O4/7, or vice versa.

 

Re club rooms, they are open with restrictions. However, not being an elderly Edwardian gentleman or ancient boy racer, I only got my second 'Astrojab' a couple of weeks ago and it is only now operational. That said, I'm not in too much of a hurry to go down. I doubt if LSGC will ever go out again, so I'm just finishing up my modelling to my own satisfaction. Shame about the B7 but there you go. On the other hand, with the completion of the hoppers, I can claim that I achieved what I set out to do. That was to produce a set of authentic trains with a high degree of accuracy, not less than 90%, that would have been instantly recognizable to the lineside back in the day. Perhaps a last photo shoot would be a good idea, the majority of what I've built over the years has never been recorded in situ.

Edited by Headstock
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