cctransuk Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Some more from the collection............... A North Eastern selection. The best here is the Bradwell J27. Beautifully-observed, and, now with an un-gummed Portescap, an equally beautiful-runner. Any offers, on any of these, please via a PM. I've done my best to dust off all the models, but I've been slightly less than fastidious. A pair of DJH Austerities, the nearer one built by DJH in 1980 (I have the provenance). A DJH 'Crab'. A K's 44XX (which now works as well as any K's mechanism I know) and a Far East brass 45XX. The latter doesn't work, and I'm stumped as to why not. Getting inside defeated me today, so it'll go (with luck) as a non-runner. A Little Engines A6 (which I think has now sold) and a Bradwell J21. Both work really sweetly, now. A Nu-Cast B1 and B16/3 sans chassis - I have no idea where this is. A pair among the best in the collection; a Little Engines A8 and a DJH B16/1. Beautifully-painted and (now) two really nice runners. A SE Finecast K3. I wonder why such a lovely paint finish was applied to such a grotty runner? It had all the faults listed earlier. Not now! In fact, it now runs very nicely. And, finally, for now, a cast metal WC (Westwood?) on a Kemilway chassis, and a DJH U. As mentioned earlier, any offers, please................. More tomorrow. Tony, The U Class is of interest - what will you accept for it? Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted July 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2021 Hello Tony, I'm about to send a pm regarding the Bradwell J27 and also the Little Engines A8. Many thanks Brian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: It's late, and I've had a trying day, so please forgive me. Whatever the rights and wrongs Tony, I'm sure both the widow and CRUK will be grateful for your efforts so all power to your elbow. From what you have shown us so far, I think 'professionally built' - certainly the painting - is not an unreasonable epithet in this case. Yes, no doubt some of the 'niggles' you mention are annoying ... but compared to some of the utter rubbish seen on Ebay so described they all look pretty good to me. Banjo domes and 'too wide' pacific tenders just go straight over my head I'm afraid! Now, if there were a Duchess in there... 6 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 10, 2021 Author Share Posted July 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: Whatever the rights and wrongs Tony, I'm sure both the widow and CRUK will be grateful for your efforts so all power to your elbow. From what you have shown us so far, I think 'professionally built' - certainly the painting - is not an unreasonable epithet in this case. Yes, no doubt some of the 'niggles' you mention are annoying ... but compared to some of the utter rubbish seen on Ebay so described they all look pretty good to me. Banjo domes and 'too wide' pacific tenders just go straight over my head I'm afraid! Now, if there were a Duchess in there... Thanks Graham, You might be interested in this pair yourself................ It's a pair of Palitoy ex-LMS 4-6-0s. Both have been detailed and rather well-repainted. Both run like, err, Palitoy 4-6-0s, but they're willing and able (and very fast at top speed). I DO really need a better duster! Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 23 hours ago, Headstock said: Good evening Clem, good to here. One of the photographs I have of the Hotchley Hill gypsum train, has a replacement Charles Roberts hopper at the head. I would like to replicate this, could you send me your recipe for converting the RTR version into your very accurate looking model. I can't remember what was your choice of chassis? Many thanks. Hi Andrew, I've just started another Charles Roberts. I'll attempt to record what I do as I go along. I'm afraid my standards are as high as Geoff Kent's but I think they are about passible. I start off with a Bachmann RTR model of the BR diagram 1/162 which of course is what I call the Charles Roberts hopper as that firm made many for both private companies and for BR to this design. This model is not bad in its shape except it's as though it has been stretched 7.5 inches or 2.5mm in 4mm scale. The wheelbase and under frame is totally fictitious (10 foot with a vacuum cylinder and of course 7.5mm too long). So first separate from the chassis and throw the chassis away. The plate above the chassis can and should be separated from the hopper body. We need a 9 foot wheelbase with double 'V's on both sides and fortunately, Parkside do one ref no PA08 which can be adapted to produce something quite close. First of all you need to cut and shut the body and also its supporting plate which sits on top of the solebars. You only need to cut and shut the actual body in one place and take out the full 2.5mm in one go. I do this by cutting on the inside of one of the two stantion strengtheners i.e. in the central part of the body. I use a combination of scalpel with blade and scalpel with custom saw blade.(www.modelcraftcollection.com). Once separated, I scribe a line 2.15mm from the central edge all the way round and using some micro end-cutters, I carefully nibble off the 2.15 all the way round and then gently clean up both edges and dry fit together. Any gaps have to be fixed by strategic filing else where to bring the gap closer together. Once satisfied, I put the two halves together on a flat surface upside down and weld together, adjusting until all sides meet up perfectly. The supporting plate is a little more complicated as the top detail is worth retaining. The first thing to note is the excessive thickness of this supporting plate (1.5mm) and if the Parkside chassis is simply added then the resulting model will be a good 1mm too tall. So I remove by file 1mm of the thickness for about 3mm from the edge all the way round the underside of the plate. Next we need to cut and shut 2.5mm out of the plate. But to keep it symmetrical two cuts must be made, one to the outside of each of the inner small body supports. For this I use a straight razor saw. This time, after separation, I scribe a line 1.1mm to each of the outer pieces and use the same nibbling technique as described above to remove the said amount. This can then be fixed together in the same way as described above. The body and support plate should now have the correct dimensions and dry fit together as shown. The sole bars from the Parkside kit can be added although I file a little off the top to ensure they sit flat and to reduce the running height of the wagon a little further before fixing. This leaves the solebar too shallow by about 0.7mm but I address this later by adding a lower flange under neath later on in the process. Before permanently fixing the body to the supporting plate, the plate needs further surgery and this is where I'm up to on the model illustrated.. The body actually should sit on a semi-open frame and I try to represent this by taking out a large oblong shape at each end of the plate situated under the end supporting stantions to accommodate the bottom door opening gear and also down the sides, close to where the body meets the supporting plate. To achieve this, with a 1mm drill, I drill out on the inside of the shape all the way round and cut and file until it is straight and accurate. See the scribed oblong at each end of the plate ready for this process. After this, I will also drill a series of holes against the inner support of the body and file giving and open framework all the way round. I'll add more to this as I go along later in the coming week. Please excuse me if this description is a bit dry - descriptive writing is not my strongest area. 11 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Graham, You might be interested in this pair yourself................ It's a pair of Palitoy ex-LMS 4-6-0s. Both have been detailed and rather well-repainted. Both run like, err, Palitoy 4-6-0s, but they're willing and able (and very fast at top speed). I DO really need a better duster! Regards, Tony. Hmm ... well you can never have enough Stanier 3-cyl 4-6-0s! My turn for pendantry - unless it was an odd-ball one that was modified, then 45640 should be straight throatplate firebox/longer boiler. Easily enough modified though... Happy to add them to the burgeoning HotN fleet! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave John Posted July 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2021 Makeup brushes Tony. I dust stock regularly, and I think it also slows the rate of fluff getting into mechanisms. This sort of thing. I bought a set years ago, nice soft brushes for dusting models. Hoover with a bit of fine cloth over the nozzle in case any bits fall off the layout or loco, brush the dust off with one of those. These days even blokes of our age can buy a set without raising too many eyebrows..... 6 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrg1 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Tony, the Far Eastern 45xx is a nice model, made by Jin at the end of the seventies. I had two, and the chassis is something of a novelty. Pickup is through the two pony trucks, which are live, so the trucks are insulated from the body. The trucks need to come off to access the body/chassis fixing screws. Also, there was a great deal of sideplay on the leading driving wheelset, leading to binding with the slidebars-or knocking them off. There was also too much slop in the connecting rods. It took quite some work to make the chassis reliable, but I think was worth it, as the body was quite good, in my opinion. After you re-assemble, don't forget the pony truck insulation pieces! 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: However, you did mention 'there are still many modellers who can recognise a quality kit-built model,' Even if it doesn't work? If it only ever sits in a glass-fronted cabinet, does that matter? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 6 hours ago, Dave John said: Makeup brushes Tony. I dust stock regularly, and I think it also slows the rate of fluff getting into mechanisms. This sort of thing. I bought a set years ago, nice soft brushes for dusting models. Hoover with a bit of fine cloth over the nozzle in case any bits fall off the layout or loco, brush the dust off with one of those. These days even blokes of our age can buy a set without raising too many eyebrows..... Many thanks, I have a couple (kindly given to me by a friend). It's just that I need to remember to use them! Regards, Tony. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 4 hours ago, jrg1 said: Tony, the Far Eastern 45xx is a nice model, made by Jin at the end of the seventies. I had two, and the chassis is something of a novelty. Pickup is through the two pony trucks, which are live, so the trucks are insulated from the body. The trucks need to come off to access the body/chassis fixing screws. Also, there was a great deal of sideplay on the leading driving wheelset, leading to binding with the slidebars-or knocking them off. There was also too much slop in the connecting rods. It took quite some work to make the chassis reliable, but I think was worth it, as the body was quite good, in my opinion. After you re-assemble, don't forget the pony truck insulation pieces! Many thanks, I've noted what you mention, but the slidebar supports are fixed to the body and I can't get the chassis out. To be frank, I'm not going to investigate further. It doesn't work (though it doesn't short) and I'm trying to sell it as that (obviously for a low price). Is anyone interested? Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, St Enodoc said: If it only ever sits in a glass-fronted cabinet, does that matter? Good morning John, Only when you're trying to sell them on............................... I'm finding myself in a dilemma right now. Quite a few folk have responded to my request for expressions of interest in these models. However, so far, after I've asked a price, the only responses have been 'No thanks, but thanks'. In one case, I'd asked (effectively) just the cost of the kit and its components. I'll wait a while, because I'm not 'giving these (lovely, in the main) models away'. A lovely model like this................. It's a Dave Alexander K4, I think built by Ron Goult (painter unknown, though, clearly, a professional). After my ministrations of yesterday (not in the religious sense, though there certainly was blasphemy!), it now runs beautifully. The point I'm making is that I wonder what a professional model-maker/-painter would quote if asked to build a model such as this (Portescap-powered) on commission? Well, it's a bit of a rhetorical question because, were I to build it, with a Mr. Rathbone or Mr. Haynes paint job, it would be a fair bit (quite a bit) north of four figures, everything included. Yes, I realise (unless a model has an outstanding provenance) that any resale value will never match the original commission price, but a 4mm paint job as good as this would be in excess of £250.00, surely? Wouldn't it Ian? Wouldn't it Geoff? Regards, Tony. Edited July 11, 2021 by Tony Wright to add something 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 Many thanks for the expressions of interest in the widow's locos so far. Thinking of prices for them, it would appear that there are many, many considerations to be taken into account. Just asking for the cost of the components seems derisory, though what's a Bradwell J21 or J27 cost as a kit? Or a Finney A3? Then there are the bits to finish everything off............. All the parts, say, for a DJH Austerity, complete? What's being said (in a way) is that whoever made and painted a loco, did it entirely free of charge, and even might have paid something for the privilege of having done so................ A principal factor, of course, is the availability now of RTR equivalents. For instance, what price those DJH Austerities compared with a Bachmann RTR one? Another question might be, why do so many kit-built locos run so poorly at source? Especially in comparison with current RTR standards. Do many builders not test them on layouts, with curves? Granted, anything with bogies and outside cylinders made by the NER is going to have wafer-thin clearances, but there are dodges to get such things round curves (in fairness, not train-set ones). The documentation with one of the Austerities (the one built by DJH in its Banbury days) states that it's been 'thoroughly tested on a large layout'. Really? It only runs now on a 'large layout' because I've got rid of the tight spots and made sure the pony didn't foul going round 3' curves. They should have stated 'huge layout'! Do Ebay prices asked (and achieved?) lower the potential resale value of the lot I've got right now? I have heard of absolute bargains being gained, but what about 'eBay madness'? As I've stated, I'm going through all these locos, making sure that they run as well as I can make them. Some, other than un-gumming Portescaps, have needed no remedial work, while some others....................... I'll be finishing off the rest today, posting more pictures later. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2021 Tony The prices seen at the Vectis auctions for kit built loconotives is a reasonable guide. During the pandemic prices achieved have gone up but they are still relatively low against the real costs of the items concerned. Prices for EM locos are low.. apart from in the EM gauge Society sales. The Korean Priairies do come apart.. price wise they are probably cheaper now rhan when they first arrived in the UK. Baz 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Clem Posted July 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2021 On 09/07/2021 at 18:26, Headstock said: One of the photographs I have of the Hotchley Hill gypsum train, has a replacement Charles Roberts hopper at the head. I would like to replicate this, could you send me your recipe for converting the RTR version into your very accurate looking model. I can't remember what was your choice of chassis? Following on from last night's post, here below, is the example of the one that is almost complete that I started recently to give you an idea of where I'm going with this. I say it's not complete, but all that's required is some further weathering and axle boxes tie bar painting to fully finish it. Also shown is the shot of the latest wagons supporting plate upside down showing the extra strengthening it requires to hold together until it is finally fixed to its body. Finally, off the subject but I'll stick it in for anyone who's interested, a couple of shots, one of recently added minerals, upgraded from RTRs waiting to go into service and one just for the sake of it. 29 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Barry O said: Tony The prices seen at the Vectis auctions for kit built loconotives is a reasonable guide. During the pandemic prices achieved have gone up but they are still relatively low against the real costs of the items concerned. Prices for EM locos are low.. apart from in the EM gauge Society sales. The Korean Priairies do come apart.. price wise they are probably cheaper now rhan when they first arrived in the UK. Baz Thanks Baz, I must admit to not paying much attention to auctions, both real and online. Perhaps I should. From what's happened so far, it seems that my asking the cost of the components (including Portescaps) plus something for the building/painting is too high. That's even for locos for which there is no RTR equivalent. It could be that I'm rather wasting my time................ Regards, Tony. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) Yet more refusals, But, anyway, thanks for showing an interest. Perhaps my best course of action would be to let the lot go to Vectis. I still think it's odd that some folk aren't prepared to pay for the cost of the components, plus £50.00 for having something built/painted. I really am wasting my time! Especially as I've taken that time to ensure that the locos work...................... Edited July 11, 2021 by Tony Wright to add something 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-A-T Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) Having taken an interest in kit built locos on eBay over the past 6 months or so a few observations if I may. Most seem to be priced into the £250 to £400 bracket. Most, and I mean the majority, seem to NOT sell and the same locos appear repeatedly without any reduction in price. If there is a RTR equivalent then the price needs to be below that of RTR equivalent unless exceptionally well built or a rare variation or livery. Rare or pre-grouping locos fetch the most with a significant number of bids. However what is of interest is the figures made by pristine loco kits. They are commanding significant sums with lots of interest. Some recent examples include: DJH MODELS GCR/LNER 4-4-0 POLLITT LOCO KIT made £185.00 McGOWAN MODELS GCR ATLANTIC 4-4-2 LOCO KIT made £140.88 REDCRAFT BRASS LOCO KIT FOR A RHYMNEY RAILWAY/GWR CLASS J 0-6-0 OSF SADDLE TANK made £244.00 Alan Gibson 4mm Scale Brass GWR 4-4-2T No 4600 Loco Boxed Locomotive Kit made £175.00 However some, as stated with RTR equivalent made low figures in my opinion. For example a Blacksmith Models G.E.R./L.N.E.R./B.R. 4.4.0 D16 1/2/3 Claud Hamilton OO Gauge 4mm scale made £73.79 with motor and wheels. A bargain to my eyes. So if you want your beneficiaries to make the most from model railways as your hobby just buy “rare” kits and don’t build them! Edited July 11, 2021 by D-A-T Making it easier to read 1 2 1 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) People have a huge range of ideas about what prices of things should be. I was once asked to build some signals for somebody and they were most put out that the price I would charge for a motorised and lit soldered up and painted working signal wasn't matching the price that Dapol charge for theirs. If they can do them at that price I should apparently be able to do the same. I politely declined and wished him luck finding somebody. Others understand the work involved and are happy to pay a sensible hourly rate for my time building things. The real problem comes in selling second hand items. By their very nature, they have to be pretty much impulse purchases as nobody knows what is coming onto the market, so unless you reach a big audience the chances of finding the one or two people who really want what is on sale are slim. I know somebody who watches lots of auctions and buys things from time to time but many times models have sold for far more than he is willing to pay so it might be the answer here. People looking to buy a loco won't necessarily make Wright Writes their place to look but they will check auction listings regularly. Edited July 11, 2021 by t-b-g Spelling 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45609 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 A very reasonable point Tony. As popular as this thread is there are only 313 people following it. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Years ago whilst working in Oldham I visited Norman Wissenden's shop several times. Norman was a true gent, east to talk to and always had the kettle on. I usually bought a few books, bits n bobs and some American O gauge stock he sold cheaply to get rid of. It was a pleasure to be invited "upstairs" to view the mainly OO gauge kit built stuff, which ranged from A1 excellent to dire - but all was expensive in my eyes. The locos / stock which stood out by a mile were built and / or painted by Larry Goddard who posted here a while ago - superb stuff, probably worth the price, but not for me. The only OO gauge kit built loco I have ever bought ready made is an LNER J10, bought off Tony a couple of years ago, a superbly built and painted little loco and excellent runner both then and now. Brit15 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, 45609 said: A very reasonable point Tony. As popular as this thread is there are only 313 people following it. If you look at something like the 2-6-0 in late LNER livery, I wonder just how many of those are modelling that period, in OO gauge, based on a line where K4s appeared. That sort of loco is actually more likely to appeal to a collector rather than a modeller as there are very few modellers working in that area in that period but there are likely to be more who want a good looking, not available RTR, K4 in their cabinet. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, D-A-T said: Having taken an interest in kit built locos on eBay over the past 6 months or so a few observations if I may. Most seem to be priced into the £250 to £400 bracket. Most, and I mean the majority, seem to NOT sell and the same locos appear repeatedly without any reduction in price. If there is a RTR equivalent then the price needs to be below that of RTR equivalent unless exceptionally well built or a rare variation or livery. Rare or pre-grouping locos fetch the most with a significant number of bids. However what is of interest is the figures made by pristine loco kits. They are commanding significant sums with lots of interest. Some recent examples include: DJH MODELS GCR/LNER 4-4-0 POLLITT LOCO KIT made £185.00 McGOWAN MODELS GCR ATLANTIC 4-4-2 LOCO KIT made £140.88 REDCRAFT BRASS LOCO KIT FOR A RHYMNEY RAILWAY/GWR CLASS J 0-6-0 OSF SADDLE TANK made £244.00 Alan Gibson 4mm Scale Brass GWR 4-4-2T No 4600 Loco Boxed Locomotive Kit made £175.00 However some, as stated with RTR equivalent made low figures in my opinion. For example a Blacksmith Models G.E.R./L.N.E.R./B.R. 4.4.0 D16 1/2/3 Claud Hamilton OO Gauge 4mm scale made £73.79 with motor and wheels. A bargain to my eyes. So if you want your beneficiaries to make the most from model railways as your hobby just buy “rare” kits and don’t build them! Hi DAT This appeared on Vectis Auctions list a couple of months ago it went for £90. For my needs it requires a repaint into BR livery, well a strip down to the basic metal first. It runs OK, so I am pleased with it. The following month there was another two Stanier LTSR tanks, in LMS black livery, possibly from the same collection. One went for £80 and one for £100 Edited July 11, 2021 by Clive Mortimore 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 20 minutes ago, 45609 said: A very reasonable point Tony. As popular as this thread is there are only 313 people following it. And not all those are 4mm modellers or steam era enthusiasts. ;-) 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, t-b-g said: If you look at something like the 2-6-0 in late LNER livery, I wonder just how many of those are modelling that period, in OO gauge, based on a line where K4s appeared. That sort of loco is actually more likely to appeal to a collector rather than a modeller as there are very few modellers working in that area in that period but there are likely to be more who want a good looking, not available RTR, K4 in their cabinet. Hi Tony There may only be a few people modelling the West Highland line in the 1930s, but if you were one of them and saw that model wouldn't you want it? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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