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Wright writes.....


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39 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

I recall Portescaps being associated somehow with the name Kean but not sure how?

 

I understand the motor was a Swiss Falhaber (not sure of spelling) and as stated above the gearbox was British.

The first were the quietest in my experience and I understand that the noise of later versions was due to the gearbox and possibly because the gears were not so well refined. I've heard they can be refined by running the gearbox with toothpaste in it after removing all the oil although I've not tried it.  I may do one day when using one of the number I have in stock.

 

The first photo below is the original type of Box and they were called Escap. 

 

1403061869_earlyPortescapbox.jpg.1387bcc76654aa3c1262edfc90d0a692.jpg

 

On the back the company's name is Portescap - there were two different addresses on the early boxes.

20210721_194326(0).jpg.3632d9e44a2f4e26b03350b007337d31.jpg

 

20210721_194147.jpg.12a5ac7ed9e3c8954180157916deff37.jpg

 

The later packaging was in a bubble wrap sleeve in the box below:

2062507740_laterPortescapbox.jpg.10cd8d1a30430db10077afb7fd353bb8.jpg

and after that they just came in bubble wrap packs but maybe because they were bought in bulk?

 

Andrew

 

Portescap as a company is still trading and supplies quality motors and drive trains to industry. It was kean who designed & commissioned suitable gearboxes for model railway use. 

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Perhaps not,

 

But more succinct than 'It gives me the greatest pleasure to announce, to the whole community on here, that Sandra Orpen, that great saviour of Retford, after seeing the Finney A3 I had for sale (on behalf of a widow) in action - the A3, not the widow - (and especially after I'd made the return cranks more-durable), has decided to purchase the aforementioned superlative model of a non-streamlined Gresley Pacific (for a not inconsiderable sum), by the simple expedient of writing me a cheque'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Why not just say Sandra bought it? 

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2 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said:

Why not just say Sandra bought it? 

 

It is a phrase that is used in certain parts during times of conflict to indicate that somebody may not be returning from their mission.

 

I think we all really knew Tony didn't mean that, it was likely just a bit of humour!

 

I am delighted that the loco has gone to a great new home. As soon as I saw it I thought "That would look nice on Retford".

 

Tony G

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40 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

It is a phrase that is used in certain parts during times of conflict to indicate that somebody may not be returning from their mission.

 

I think we all really knew Tony didn't mean that, it was likely just a bit of humour!

 

I am delighted that the loco has gone to a great new home. As soon as I saw it I thought "That would look nice on Retford".

 

Tony G

I know Tony, I was being facetious. 
 

Aye @Tony Wright I used a big word. Do I get a gold star or is still a thrashing for speaking out of turn? 

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3 hours ago, James Fitzjames said:

Assuming paintwork is enamel, T-Cut would probably be your best bet here: small amount worked gently over the transfer area with the side of a blunt cocktail stick/wooden cuticle thingmy. Once transfers are gone, remove any remaining T-Cut with cotton buds; hey presto, nice high gloss area ready to receive new transfers. Just be careful not to work the T-Cut over any transfers etc., you wish to keep. Pic shows a renumber done exactly as above, after subsequent clear coat (deliberately uneven) and before weathering

 

IMG_20210721_1148280.jpg.1bb48e97c7ed7f055ba69644afa415a7.jpg

 

Thanks for that, a nice slow job to do in-between trains in the box then! 

 

When you say clear coat, what do you use to protect the transfers please?

 

Andy G

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28 minutes ago, uax6 said:

 

Thanks for that, a nice slow job to do in-between trains in the box then! 

 

When you say clear coat, what do you use to protect the transfers please?

 

Andy G

I use Klear (Pledge revive it floor gloss) brushed on, or Crystal Lock by True Earth (Italy) airbrushed. Believe Crystal Lock has become difficult to obtain post-Brexit, though.

 

James

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2 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Portescap as a company is still trading and supplies quality motors and drive trains to industry. It was kean who designed & commissioned suitable gearboxes for model railway use. 

It was only the 1219 unit that used a Faulhaber motor because Portescap didn’t have the 1219 in their range.  The 1616 and 1624 motors were both Portescap as were all the gearboxes.  As stated elsewhere I think Kean was/were involved in commissioning the range.

Frank

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3 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

It was only the 1219 unit that used a Faulhaber motor because Portescap didn’t have the 1219 in their range.  The 1616 and 1624 motors were both Portescap as were all the gearboxes.  As stated elsewhere I think Kean was/were involved in commissioning the range.

Frank

As I said, Kean were responsible for designing and having the gearboxes built, incidentally using standard gears from portescap with the exception of the nylon bevel gear which was unique to these units.

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4 hours ago, James Fitzjames said:

Not much difference between South Wales and the West Highlands of Scotland!

 

Got that salty corrosion look as seen at Barry

 

But does look rusty/scaly!

 

4 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

I recall Portescaps being associated somehow with the name Kean but not sure how?

 

 

I think you are right.

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2 hours ago, Denbridge said:

As I said, Kean were responsible for designing and having the gearboxes built, incidentally using standard gears from portescap with the exception of the nylon bevel gear which was unique to these units.

Nothing original about the gearbox design though, it was an almost exact copy of the last O gauge gearbox produced by Leeds Model Co. - apart from the .nylon bevel gears in place of the pinion and contrate. The LMC boxes didn't whine but they could rattle a bit.

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Tony

You may remember Horfield, an exhibition layout set on the outskirts of Bristol, now, sadly, retired from the circuit. Steve Knight, who helped build and exhibit the layout, with his father Chris, now runs a very fine model shop in Poole, Model Railway Solutions. I recently told him I was looking to build a B1 using a Comet chassis. A couple of hours later he came up with the followingEECF9F6C-F831-418F-AE0E-64D1C787D950.jpeg.e04736df075948bf3196645064e77919.jpeg


The loco was purchased for Horfield to haul a heavy inter regional goods, 61063 was a Leicester engine. I am assured that it was built by one Tony Geary.

The body and tender body are Bachmann, the loco and tender chassis are Comet, all powered by a Portescap motor.

After some years in store it needed a bit of TLC but is now running beautifully on my layout. I have to say I was amazed by the weight. Every spare millimetre was filled with lead, so much so I had to remove a small amount to fit a decoder. Needless to say it romps away with a 10 coach train

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1 minute ago, Roger Sunderland said:

Steve Knight, who helped build and exhibit the layout, with his father Chris, now runs a very fine model shop in Poole, Model Railway Solutions.

 

Is this the Steve Knight / Kitmasterbloke?

 

John Isherwood.

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10 hours ago, uax6 said:

Sorry to lower the tone from such a high fidelity build, to something that was described as super detail in its day (later 60's?) but I've recently taken delivery of a bit of old school modelling, in the form of a Wills Crab:

SAM_9707.JPG.f3a13b762275f50b55558d6e2b22aa64.JPG

 

Its of its time as it uses a Triang 2-6-2T chassis, but has been fitted with Romfords. The valve gear is triang, although the cross heads don't appear to be. I think there may be a way of fitting Lima cylinders and valve gear to update that bit though.

Shes fitted with a 5 pole XO4 motor, although I've not powered her up yet. Having said all that she's a delight to see, and has a presence that the Lima ones just don't seem to have. 

Sadly she has been lettered up with the post 1928 gold shaded red transfers that were used on black locos, whereas she should have gold shaded black ones, and also a number in the 13xxx range!

SAM_9708.JPG.de1482100fa59c939ebf2302a2579779.JPG

SAM_9709.JPG.e0880d00615d5e7d9e5ef8646e7c4c6c.JPG

 

I've never tried removing transfers from a loco that I want to keep the paint on. Could someone explain the process for me please?

 

Andy G

 

Suggest you try before going to T-cut.   1) just letting soapy water sit on it, I have seen some of the very old transfers just peel away.  Probably because the varnish of the day was not that good.  2) take a cotton bud soaked in meths or IPA and gently wipe across the transfers -after testing on a blind area

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1 minute ago, Theakerr said:

Suggest you try before going to T-cut.   1) just letting soapy water sit on it, I have seen some of the very old transfers just peel away.  Probably because the varnish of the day was not that good.  2) take a cotton bud soaked in meths or IPA and gently wipe across the transfers -after testing on a blind area

 

I'll have a go, and report back! 

 

Andy G

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A good discussion on portescaps. I always liked them, the spur gearing adding a touch of inertia to movement.

 

Just out of interest, if you come across what looks like a portescap  but which has milled brass sides then it could well be a rebuild using MJT milled sides which varied the position of the drive shaft so it went under the cab floor. I noticed that some of the conversion kits are still available from Dart castings when I was buying other stuff recently. 

 

Anyway, here is one I made last century...... 

 

pcap004.jpg.46bc7ad82ccca7f4443d3dbfda12b05a.jpg

Edited by Dave John
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2 hours ago, Roger Sunderland said:

Tony

You may remember Horfield, an exhibition layout set on the outskirts of Bristol, now, sadly, retired from the circuit. Steve Knight, who helped build and exhibit the layout, with his father Chris, now runs a very fine model shop in Poole, Model Railway Solutions. I recently told him I was looking to build a B1 using a Comet chassis. A couple of hours later he came up with the followingEECF9F6C-F831-418F-AE0E-64D1C787D950.jpeg.e04736df075948bf3196645064e77919.jpeg


The loco was purchased for Horfield to haul a heavy inter regional goods, 61063 was a Leicester engine. I am assured that it was built by one Tony Geary.

The body and tender body are Bachmann, the loco and tender chassis are Comet, all powered by a Portescap motor.

After some years in store it needed a bit of TLC but is now running beautifully on my layout. I have to say I was amazed by the weight. Every spare millimetre was filled with lead, so much so I had to remove a small amount to fit a decoder. Needless to say it romps away with a 10 coach train

Good evening Roger,

 

Of course I remember Horfield. I visited your clubrooms when it was under construction..................

 

1691454118_Horfield01.jpg.3e41a8aa23a0a1f9985e404654bfd5f9.jpg

 

1249661726_Horfield03.jpg.2b9bd9f1172596b5903270b74a38b152.jpg

 

I also managed to get some snaps of it at one Doncaster Show.......................

 

588265387_HorfieldA.jpg.29e53a07a3bf691bc84c73061d75d83c.jpg

 

1595720596_HorfieldB.jpg.33abf745337728d030aa5cf57fa0b526.jpg

 

187709199_HorfieldC.jpg.163a5ddec205aed45f5faa80f33036eb.jpg

 

Regarding the B1, it could well be Tony Geary's work. He produced several B1s for Stoke Summit and Charwelton using Bachmann bodies, Comet frames and Stelfox cylinders. 

 

I'm privileged to now own two of them.............

 

971586662_B161078.jpg.85e3ecdfd5e4d824c9d71ac4bd3acd00.jpg

 

437408826_B161206.jpg.5ae608a752e6d61d76d33b89e87068f9.jpg

 

The 'problem' with these (and yours) is that he used the original Comet frame/motion set for a B1. Derived from the very-inaccurate Roche drawing, the eccentric rod is far too short and the pivot for the expansion link way too far back as a consequence.

 

I, too, have produced B1s by this method, but use the current Comet B1 chassis kit..................

 

494592171_6100204.jpg.5d8fcffacfc8372b26244e954f8424a8.jpg

 

1678205666_01B161212.jpg.b3f58de3be838778f411a54457b8c764.jpg

 

With the motion in the correct proportions.

 

I'm certainly not going to alter Tony's now.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

A further point regarding Tony Geary-built B1s; though he might have used a Portescap in the one illustrated by Roger, both of his on Little Bytham have either a Comet or DJH 'box and appropriate Mashima motor. Both run superbly (despite my eradicating the trademark Mr. Geary 'squeak' from the pick-ups). 

 

Last week, Andy (The Green Howards) looked at one after I took it off its train so that one of his could run, thinking it was for sale (I was showing him a few locos from the collection I was selling). If it were for sale, the price would have been considerably higher than those from the collection. 

 

Which brings me to a question. On resale, is the work of 'names' in the hobby worth more than equivalent items where there is no 'provenance'?

 

I would think so.................... 

Edited by Tony Wright
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26 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Which brings me to a question. On resale, is the work of 'names' in the hobby worth more than equivalent items where there is no 'provenance'?

 

I would think so.................... 

But maybe only for one or two modelling generations?  By 2121 who would pay a premium for a loco owned by Tony Wright?  Didn't he have a small layout called Bytham and apparently didn't like something called DCC.  Anyway he filled the loco body with lead, so you can't fit a linear motor.  

Bill

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37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

is the work of 'names' in the hobby worth more than equivalent items where there is no 'provenance'?

 

Absolutely.   I am lucky enough to have acquired locos built by yourself, by Graham Varley and Mike Edge and painted by Ian Rathbone and Larry Goddard.   That association, quite apart from the quality of the build and finish, makes them stand out in my collection.

 

It also ensures that most of them will not be altered or weathered in any significant way.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Which brings me to a question. On resale, is the work of 'names' in the hobby worth more than equivalent items where there is no 'provenance'?

 

I would think so.................... 

Not necessarily..depends on what it is really and is it OO, EM or P4 in 4mm scales.

 

Baz

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55 minutes ago, bbishop said:

But maybe only for one or two modelling generations?  By 2121 who would pay a premium for a loco owned by Tony Wright?  Didn't he have a small layout called Bytham and apparently didn't like something called DCC.  Anyway he filled the loco body with lead, so you can't fit a linear motor.  

Bill

By 2121 will anyone be modelling the East Coast Main Line in 1958 in 00, or any other scale? If any of our models do survive by then I expect they will just be regarded as rather quaint anachronisms and that technology will have moved on to such an extent that there will be such things as immersive holo programs in which you can actually experience the real steam era railway.

 

I certainly don’t expect Retford, Little Bytham or indeed any other model railway to still exist, if only because the technology involved will seem to be primitive in the extreme and few will understand how to repair anything that breaks. Indeed you could argue that we are half way there as many modellers don’t seem to dare touch any RTR model that fails.

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