DENT STATION with CHESTERGATE

[67A]

 

Hi all,

 

Following a disastrous flood which damaged beyond repair my railway den I have taken the decision to rebuild the area completely in blockwork and construct a new layout in 'OO' finescale based on Dent station on Settle - Carlisle line.

 

INDEX TO SIGNIFICANT POSTS AT BOTTOM OF INTRODUCTION ....

 

The layout will be based on BR operations in the late 1950's through to 1968 when a mixture of classic Settle-Carlisle steam and green diesel operations will be replicated. Around 1965 ish' the up refuge siding was lifted but modellers licence will see a change of heart on this and the siding will remain intact. I may also venture into BR blue era at a later date but this is undecided at present.

I intend to use C&L products for the scenic section which requires 6No. point kits and 2No. single slip kits with flat bottom rail on the main lines and bullhead in the sidings. This will be my first attempt at trackbuilding!!! The fiddle yard will be below the scenic section and reached via a helix at both ends (to eleviate ducking under) the scenic section will measure 20ft x 3ft approx plus helix at 2ft radius max!
I hope it works on long trains - any advice or experience guys???

I am currently doing the research and producing drawings and historical notes whilst the rebuild progresses. If anyone has any information on Dent I would be most grateful however obscure as it all helps create the flavour of the line.

One question I would like to ask is: When Dent sidings were serviced by the pick-up goods from both the up and down main lines : what was the proceedure? e.g.would the pick-up train be left on the main line whilst a shunt move was carried out?

I will post some pic's of the current state of play over the weekend re: the rebuild and obviously any work done on the buidings in due course.

Needless to say this project will be 'A LONG DRAG' .

 

DOUBLE CLICK EITHER FILE BELOW TO VIEW INDEX...

 

RMWeb.Index.5.xlsx    (FOR EXCEL USERS) Updated to 04/01/2016

 

RMWeb.Index.5.txt    (GENERAL NOTEPAD FORMAT) Updated to 04/01/2016

 

NOTE* THERE ARE MANY SCENIC VIEWS BETWEEN TOPICS LISTED TO HAVE A BROWSE THROUGH  

 

Cheers.

Mike

Edited July 1, 2021 by 67A

[APOLLO]

Good luck in future, Dent station modelled by the late David Jenkinson (in fact all of his layouts) were allways amongst my favourites.

 

5 August 1967, my brother & I travelled from Wigan accross the pennines to ride on the 10.17 Leeds (ex Birmingham) to Carlisle (the train then went on to Glasgow). A gleaming Jubilee, 45562 Alberta was the reason. A few other Holbeck Jubs were still in use, used on the S&C expresses at this time. Manchester to Leeds was behind Standard 73045, Carlisle to Preston was behind a Black 5, 44911, Head out of window all the way, and we were both as black as it when we got home !!.

 

Wonderfull days.

 

Brit15

[67A]

Hi Appollo

 

Back in those days I lived at the far end of the journey, Glasgow. I never got to visit the S&C until about 1971, I think, in 1972 I moved to Nottingham and worked at Derby Loco Works and travelled the line pretty reguarly until 1976. I always had a soft spot for the S&C and indeed have several books on the subject including David Jenkinson's.

 

I only hope I can do justice to the location.

 

Cheers

Mike

[southern42]

We passed through Dent on the Fellsman in July. Wonderful.

Will be keeping an interested eye on your progress.

 

 

Enjoy the long drag - we did.

[ben pez]

good luck with the layout,plenty of pics!

 

nice place is dent,not too far away from another place of mine,ais gill.

ive got a couple of old pics of the interior of dent signal box taken by my late grandfather in the mid 60s.

 

theres a couple of 1960s videos of dent station on youtube if you search for it,good stuff on it,9fs,8fs black 5s.

[67A]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the info re: Youtube, never thought of that angle.

 

The pic's of the signalbox would be of help if you don't mind. All the structures will be scratchbuilt so an accurate photo is a good place to start.

 

A friend and I laid the first course of blockwork today. Its akin to cutting the first sod!

 

Mike

[Andrew P]

Hi have you checked out Kirby Lunside in S & C under special interest, Jeff is doing a wonderfull job on his bit of the S &C. I will be keeping an eye on this one.

 

All the best Andy.

[DaveF]

Hi Mike,

 

There are colour photos of Dent in the 60s in one of my flickr sets, in this case at: http://www.flickr.co...57626236485270/

 

You need to look in the set "Settle and Carlisle Dent..." (fourth one along in the top row).

 

Hope they may be some use.

 

David

 

Edited to correct spelling - I blame my keyboard.

Edited November 17, 2012 by DaveF

[67A]

Hi have you checked out Kirby Lunside in S & C under special interest, Jeff is doing a wonderfull job on his bit of the S &C. I will be keeping an eye on this one.

 

All the best Andy.

 

Hi Andy,

Yes had a long browse through Kirkby Luneside and it all helps focus the mind. Can't wait to get started but must build the 'den' first.

[67A]

Hi Mike,

 

There are colour photos of Dent in the 60s in one of my flickr sets, in this case at: http://www.flickr.co...57626236485270/

 

You need to look in the set "Settle and Carlisle Dent..." (fourth one along in the top row).

 

Hope they may be some use.

 

David

 

Edited to correct spelling - I blame my keyboard.

 

Hi David

 

Great range of content among those pic's. They will come in very useful over the following months erm... years. Thanks for that.

[67A]

Hi all,

Been busy laying blockwork over the weekend so the brain has had time to think on layout planning and operation. I know the Long Meg - Widnes Anhydrite train was a regular but not being a 'wagon' guru I wonder if anyone knows the type of wagon used and if any manufacturer makes it currently or in the past, any info would be great.

 

Cheers

Mike

[Leander]

Hi all,

Been busy laying blockwork over the weekend so the brain has had time to think on layout planning and operation. I know the Long Meg - Widnes Anhydrite train was a regular but not being a 'wagon' guru I wonder if anyone knows the type of wagon used and if any manufacturer makes it currently or in the past, any info would be great.

 

Cheers

Mike

 

See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51683-sc-anhydrite-wagon-in-4mm/

[67A]

Hi Leander,

 

Many thanks for that, I didn't think I had seen them 'in a box'!Food for thought though.

 

Mike

[67A]

Hi all,

 

Spent the last few days scratching the brain cells following several attempts - and then some more.... at 'Templot', trying to get Dent Station track plan drawn. Its not looking good at present as I just can't get to grips with it.

If the rain stops tomorrow I will out carrying on the 'den' re-building.

Trying to source a floorplan for the station building in order to start some of the buildings which I can do indoors while the den is under construction, I'm getting withdrawal symptoms as there is no modelling getting done!!

 

Cheers

mike

[the penguin of doom]

Hi Mike.

 

Firstly, sorry to hear about your flood. I was was flooded out in 2007 and I really wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

 

I can't really offer S+C advice but I really liked every run I had in the line in the 80's so will be watching this one as well as Kirby Luneside.

 

Nice avatar too, there'll be a couple of these running on the line I assume?.....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

Edited November 22, 2012 by the penguin of doom

[67A]

Hi Sean,

Oh yes there will be the trusty Peak or two or three. I will initially be operating in 1950's - 1960's era with an eclectic mix of S&C steam and green diesels including my curent two Peaks D1 and D67. I may then venture into the 1970's with blue diesels but at present I only have D1733 in experimental livery, so I have got some purchasing to do if I decide on that option.

 

Things will be bit slow to begin with but once the building is up it will soon take shape, I will be making a start on the baseboards and doing some modelling on the buildings etc. in the meantime.

 

cheers

Mike

[67A]

Hi Sean,

 

I forgot about the Avatar, I chose this as was a fitter at Toton TMD back in the 1970's where I probably worked on Peaks almost every day - Happy day's erm...

Mike

[the penguin of doom]

Excellent Mike.

 

I'll look forward to progress then. Incidentally, I have a batch of Bachmann Peak bodies which will need a new home before long. Let me know if you need owt specific. Cheers.

 

Sean.

[LNER4479]

One question I would like to ask is: When Dent sidings were serviced by the pick-up goods from both the up and down main lines : what was the proceedure? e.g.would the pick-up train be left on the main line whilst a shunt move was carried out?

 

Hi Mike,

 

Although I cannot be absolutely certain about Dent, the leaving of part of a goods train on a mainline whilst shunting took place was a far more common occurence (in steam days at least) than is often given credit for and rarely replicated in model form. S&C was classic block section signalling and Dent station would have defined station limits between home and starter signals where the signalman was perfectly within his rights to detain a train (or part of it) for operational reasons. The pick-up goods would be timetabled to call in at the various stations accordingly so as not to disrupt other traffic. It was all planned in a far more regimented fashion that we would like to believe (although late running and other disruption would often make a mockery of the plan).

 

Good further reading is to be had from David Jenkinson's 'Rails in the Fells' treatise on the route; also his 'Garsdale Road' model of the 1970's. Bob Essery's books are also worth reading if you want to replicate prototypical operation.

 

Will follow progress with interest. Your choice of route and timeframe is one of my interests, despite the nature of my current project!

[67A]

Hi all,

 

I have David Jenkinson's book and Andersons book on the structures, these have formed most of the research to date, I must have another 20 books on the S&C all different in their own right and little snippets can be gleaned from all if you have time to read them through, I have not come across the 'pick-up' goods operation in any as yet but I only read earlier today that "lamb's were wrapped in swaddling cloth and transported to leeds"!! OK this was in the early days no doubt but if they were going to Leeds there is no siding facilities on the 'up' line (refuge exepted) therefore southbound trains must have crossed the slip to collect said wagon - I presume.

Its facinating stuff modelling a real location, I have always modelled a figment of my imagination in order to squeeze in all the "must have's".

 

Sean, Re: Peak bodies: Let me know what's on offer when your ready.

 

Mike

[67A]

Hi all,

 

Update on progress, good mates, Allan and Phil having given up their last few weekends have raised the blockwork up to mid-window level and I already have the windows manufactured for the opening. All things being well a couple of weekends should see the build ready to receive the roof, once its watertight I will be getting stuck into the interior.

 

Meanwhile on the model front I have now got all the plans together for the buildings (except floorplan) and will be getting started on something in the next week or so, possibly the 'Coal Road' bridge.

 

Whilst all this is going on I am designing the baseboards, they will be made of 9mm Birch ply throughout and will feature weight reducing measures. The scenic boards will not have a top surface due to the topography of the area around Dent although the fiddleyard will be plain, still undecided on how to support the fiddleyard as it will be postioned directly beneath the scenic section!

 

Over and above all this I am still fighting with TEMPLOT!!!!

 

Will post some pic's a soon as there is something worth looking at.

 

Cheers

Mike

 

 

[beast66606]

One question I would like to ask is: When Dent sidings were serviced by the pick-up goods from both the up and down main lines : what was the proceedure? e.g.would the pick-up train be left on the main line whilst a shunt move was carried out?

 

The sectional appendix (LMS/BR (LMR) Midland Division) will have details of any restrictions. Leaving the train on the main line may not be permitted, or the time table may not permit it.

 

I have both of these although my 1960 appendix is missing at the moment, I'll take a look at the 1937, and the supplement (alterations) for 1956 and let you know.

[67A]

 

 

The sectional appendix (LMS/BR (LMR) Midland Division) will have details of any restrictions. Leaving the train on the main line may not be permitted, or the time table may not permit it.

 

I have both of these although my 1960 appendix is missing at the moment, I'll take a look at the 1937, and the supplement (alterations) for 1956 and let you know.

 

Thanks mate, will look forward to this info. Its puzzling me at the moment looking at the track plan, perhaps everything went north to maybe Appleby or Carlisle then attached to a southbound working later?

How's life down south?

 

Cheers

Mike

[DaveF]

I remember watching some shunting in 1967 at Horton in Ribblesdale. It was an up goods hauled by an 8F, the train was left on the up main line while shunting was carried out. 2 photos below showing wagons "parked" on the main line, the other photo shows the train engine on the up line shunting as a freight passes on the down line.

 

 

 

I've also had a look in my 1960 Sectional appendix, there appears to no mention of NOT this method of shunting.

 

By the way the capacity of the down refuge siding at Den tis given as 43 wagons plus engine and brake van. The up refuge siding is given as 30 wagons plus engine and brake van.

 

David

[ess1uk]

Sorry to hear of the flood, but good luck with the new project, a great place to model.