RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 I was wondering how long til someone posts a pic of the two side by side (apologies if its been done already and I've missed it!), I don't know how likely they were to be seen together but they do look goodwww.miac.org.uk has a picture on their article about Dudley which shows W22 in the Bay with an unidentified early railcard which may be W14 as that was pictured in the same place on the same day 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishrailwaymodeller Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 A really nice model. Here's mine on Shunters Yard. I have fitted DCC sound by Mr Soundguy and driver figures but must get some suitable HO passenger figures. A shot of the older razer-edge Lima railcar for comparison: 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 27, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) Duplicate post - content removed Edited December 28, 2017 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 27, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2017 (edited) My replacement No.12 arrived from Rails about a week before Christmas and apart from a cursory glance I wasn't able to try it. Today after some running in on DC a couple of days ago I got around to fitting a decoder (Lenz Silver + 21, this was brand new as the previous one was installed in my Ivatt 4-4-2) I programmed it with my Sprog and all went well including a throttle & lights test. I then transferred it to my layout and zilch. No lights, nothing. I took the top off and found a red wire was adrift see picture: It's the wire coming under the blanking plug and poking out the top. Question is why did it come off between test track & layout when the railcar was fully assembled? Also where does it go on the board? It is the thin wire along the bottom from the driven bogie, the thicker wire goes to the motor. I am reluctant send this one back if just a wire has come off which can easily be re-affixed IMHO The wiring of the railcar is a mess as the front and rear bogies are wired in reverse e.g. the red on the one is the black on the other! Hence on the board it's not obvious where they go (there is no logical colour plan!) The other thing I have noticed on both railcars is that some wires are trapped under the seat/interior moulding rather than following the channel provided Cheers Keith EDIT I think I have found where it goes = bottom left on the PCB where the black wire from the non driven bogie sits. Edited December 28, 2017 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanmcs Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 If you are a new reader to this thread, please read all pages going back to at least page 26 so you have a CLEAR understanding of what has already been tested. PLEASE NOTE ALL OF THE BELOW IS ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION AND IS IN NO WAY TRYING TO CONTRADICT Dapol's DESIGN. I MAY JUST HAVE HAD THE ONLY THREE ENGINES IN THIS PRODUCTION BATCH THAT FALL BELOW MY PERSONAL STANDARD? ALSO I CAN IN NO WAY SAY WHAT WOULD HAVE BROUGHT THE TWO MODELS I SENT BACK TO THE SHOP UP TO MY PERSONAL EXPECTATION AS I NEVER LOOKED INTO THOSE MODELS. OK Guys, Here we have my final comment and conclusion of my personal Dapol Railcar in regards to its 'Hunting' issue I personally feel it had. Hunting occurs at about 40% DC and 50% DCC, it is most noticeable on DCC, and this speed is exactly were most of us would perceive about 30mph to be in real life. This problem was present in all three of my Dapol Railcars. I have kept one and returned the other two as I only have the 'head space' to fix one problematic model. When the model travels up hill, the hunting stops, when travelling down hill, the hunting stops, when against the buffer stops and wheels are slipping on the track the hunting stops. While hunting, you can hear the motor change revs or react to load change. So a new Mashima 1628 motor was fitted and a new flywheel/drive cup was made. As some on this thread have already suggested may be the case, this motor change did nothing to solve the issue. So at this point all I have is the un-driven bogie collecting power, bigger wires fitted to this bogie and feeding the new motor directly. All that remained of the original Dapol System is the drive shaft, UJ and power bogie (not collecting power) and still the hunting persists. The UJ was ruled out as an Extra 0.007" shim was added to remove all traces of worm backlash. I think it is at this point safe to say my problem is in the driven bogie as there is simply nothing else left. The problem was totally resolved by fitting a 26/12 Black Beetle bogie. This size is a tad short, but beggars can't be choosers when these power bogies are not made any more. 28/11.5mm is an exact match for the Dapol Railcar, but because you can't see the bogie, 2mm in length is not an issue. The difference in wheel size is also irrelevant because you have to 'make' the bogie fit, thus setting the ride height yourself. As I just stated, these bogies are no longer made, but some do still remain in stock if you hunt about. The other option would be a Tenshodo Spud , 'word on the street' is that these bogies are not the best, but I can't comment as I've never had one. There is also the Hornby or Bachmann option with something 'borrowed' from a DMU/EMU. The model now runs without fault and is how I always wanted it to be. The up side is not only does the model run well, I've been able to remove the 'motor bulge'. The interior is in grey primer for now, but will be painted in the appropriate colours at a later date. I am not a professor of engineering, so I can not 'tell' you why the problem with hunting is in my model, but I believe the issue lies within the gear train of the driven bogie. Excluding the worm and UJ's, there are 8 gears in total involved in taking the drive down from the worm to the wheels. In one of my wheels, I had 1/8th of a rev in free turn, and the other had only 1/16th of free turn. I don't know what that means in terms of drive, but the free rev in each wheel is not the same due to the uneven number of gears either side of the 1st driving cog from the worm. Over the 8 gears, there are 8 points of gear backlash. I think at low and high speed the bogie is pushing the body, but at mid speed, the backlash in the long drive train is having an influence. Maybe the gears push the body forward and the body takes up the backlash having been pushed by the gears, then coasts until it slows enough for the body to be pushed again by the gears? Maybe the weight of the body and the backlash in the gears is just enough to set off a harmonic oscillation when the drive train is at coasting speed. I don't think the motor is being back driven by the bogie gears as the worm cannot be driven from the bogie side of the drive train. However, the fact that the motor is being affected during the hunting may be messing up whatever system is in play within the DCC system. I believe the DCC system uses some sort of feedback from the motor to control the speed, so a motor being forced to change its speed because of the drive train may explain why the hunting is more noticeable in DCC? Ironically, a flywheel will make hunting worse in this case as it is using its momentum to load the motor, and this is something else the DCC has to try and smooth out. DC being a pure voltage, the controller is not trying to adjust for anything, the loco just reacts to the given voltage (assuming you are not using force feedback) So the hunting will show less. If the above is correct, then very thick grease in the gearbox would help, or a much heavier body so the drive train is under load for longer, or some sort of brake giving resistance to the wheels. Unfortunately, all of these options will put the drive train under excessive load and cause damage. If my thoughts are correct, the model simply needs a better fitting set of bogie gears or a less convoluted or evenly spaced gear drive train. AGAIN, MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS. IMG_4161.JPG IMG_4169.JPG IMG_4170.JPG THERE IS A REAR BEARING ON THE WORM, JUST MISSING FROM THE ABOVE PICTURE! IMG_4172.JPG IMG_4173.JPG IMG_4174.JPG IMG_4175.JPG IMG_4179.JPG I ask if with this BB fitted, and DCC, you have functions in addition to direction, speed. Like lights and horns? Do you perchance have a sound decoder? How were these things wired, please? seanmcs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishrailwaymodeller Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 A friend did a nice video of my GWR Railcar on my Ballybeg layout this evening - sound courtesy of Mr Soundguy! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR8700 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) These sold out quickly, can't find any retailers still offering the early condition model except the usual ebay offerings. Edited December 29, 2017 by GWR8700 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) I have at long last given my replacement No.12 a run around the layout with a decoder fitted. What a difference compared to the original. It's not 100% smooth but nothing like the jitter/surging mid range that the first one had. A slight stuttering at low speeds as it accelerates or decelerates but otherwise much better. Hopefully that will improve as the gears bed in. Not sure why that wire off meant it was totally dead on DCC as there should have been current from the other bogie, unless it was touch something on the decoder which switched it off! Definitely a nice model after all. However the replacement didn't have the accessory bag with the lamps in. Keith EDIT Fingers crossed this one doesn't fail completely like the last one did after a short while. Edited December 29, 2017 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil47gwr Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Are shops waiting for a new shipment of these to enter the country? I'm interested in W8 with factory-fitted decoder but can't find an example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2018 I have now given my railcar an extended run to see exactly how it goes. It is fitted with a Lenz Silver + 21 decoder and the top speed set to a scale 70mph. Using the Lenz 100 controller with 28 speed steps it will run at an almost imperceptible crawl on setting 1 with the speed increasing smoothly up to setting 5. After setting 5 and up to around 11 it has some judder/hunting, peaking on about setting 8. Beyond 11 up to 28 there is no judder/hunting noticeable at any speed and it runs smoothly in that range. Not perfect but as it will not be running at, just passing through, the speedrange where there is some judder I am prepared to accept it as it is. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 3, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 3, 2018 Are shops waiting for a new shipment of these to enter the country? I'm interested in W8 with factory-fitted decoder but can't find an example. Plenty of unfitted No 8s available. Why not fit your own decoder? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tractionman Posted February 6, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2018 Might be of interested to those who frequent this thread: Rails has a Flash Sale, today only, for Dapol Streamlined Railcars: Today only: Dapol 4D-011-001 and 4D-011-002 Streamlined Railcar locomotives are only £109.50 each (RRP: £145.00) https://railsofsheffield.com/groups/2343/flash-sale cheers, Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave56 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Might be of interested to those who frequent this thread: Rails has a Flash Sale, today only, for Dapol Streamlined Railcars: Today only: Dapol 4D-011-001 and 4D-011-002 Streamlined Railcar locomotives are only £109.50 each (RRP: £145.00) https://railsofsheffield.com/groups/2343/flash-sale cheers, Keith What a great deal! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndg910 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Good spot but I hope this doesn’t mean the railcars have been slow sellers. I’m still badgering Dapol to produce No 17 as apparently the tooling allows for the parcels railcar sides. I also think the roof is different with no vents for No 17. Perhaps it’s more likely as a retailer commission so Oliver at Rails, Dave at Hattons, Chris at Kernow or anyone else might take note. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR8700 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Good spot but I hope this doesn’t mean the railcars have been slow sellers. I’m still badgering Dapol to produce No 17 as apparently the tooling allows for the parcels railcar sides. I also think the roof is different with no vents for No 17. Perhaps it’s more likely as a retailer commission so Oliver at Rails, Dave at Hattons, Chris at Kernow or anyone else might take note. I doubt it's been a slow seller, the early condition has sold out at all retailers I can find. I don't know about the others but they are only including two versions in a flash sale so presumably they are doing quite well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted February 6, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2018 Might be of interested to those who frequent this thread: Rails has a Flash Sale, today only, for Dapol Streamlined Railcars: Today only: Dapol 4D-011-001 and 4D-011-002 Streamlined Railcar locomotives are only £109.50 each (RRP: £145.00) https://railsofsheffield.com/groups/2343/flash-sale Thank you! That was the version I had been procrastinating on. Duly ordered. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 7, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2018 Thank you, I’ve picked one of those up too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Thank you. Me too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted February 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) Thankfully mine has turned out to be a smooth runner (DC only, testing using my Compspeed controller). It has got a noticeable squeak/squeal though so need to get the body off and have a look. Edited February 25, 2018 by 57xx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 Unfortunately it seems I spoke too soon. Running it again this evening and there is a distinct surging at around 40% throttle. The lights are pulse with the surge and the squeal also varies in time with it. Not sure why it didn't show up the first time round, unless I didn't just hit that "magic" spot on the controller. It runs exceptionally well at a very slow crawl and is fine at high speed too. Deciding whether to just drive around the surge or send it back and try again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tim Hall Posted March 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2018 Bought one from Rails in their flash sale. Runs very smoothly at any speed I want using a Gaugemaster Q. Interior repainted, crew and passengers fitted, very happy. In display cabinet until layout goes Great Western in a few weeks 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold nickwood Posted March 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2018 In the 1930`s ATC equipment was fitted to those railcars that travelled far and wide, so there is cable runs from one end where the ATC shoe was fitted to the two diesel engines( where the passenger seats were higher over each engine) Also early on the roofs were painted in two tone white and later in life some were changed to white and black ( The Dapol team went blank on this when I asked them ) DSC01364.JPG I think this is No 12 trundling down to Weymouth in the 1930`s DSC01117.JPG Cheers John I am in the process of detailing my No12 which I've descibed on my Much Murkle thread which starts near the bottom of this page http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58847-much-murkle/page-25 I'm intrigued by the two tone roof shown on the photo above, but I'm wondering if it is white and black as suggested or perhaps white and brown? Can anyone say for certain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcanbomber Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 One of my jobs for the future, so interested in what different people are doing however I did come across this https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GWR_Railcar_22_Interior.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted March 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) I am in the process of detailing my No12 which I've descibed on my Much Murkle thread which starts near the bottom of this page http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58847-much-murkle/page-25 I'm intrigued by the two tone roof shown on the photo above, but I'm wondering if it is white and black as suggested or perhaps white and brown? Can anyone say for certain? Well Nick When I built my 7mm version............... My research concluded........... originally two tone white... And if you get a copy of this book..... You might conclude like me that the roof was then black and white.. On another point of interest it sems to me that the bogie frames chosen for the Dapol version is based on the only preserved earlier type of railcar. Which has deep side frames and short springs. Whereas it seems to me this model should have narrow frames and longer springs ????????????????? but like that past Prime Minister with the large hand bag said....... you paint the roof brown if you want to, but this modeller ain`t for changing... Cheers john Edited March 5, 2018 by ROSSPOP 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 On another point of interest it sems to me that the bogie frames chosen for the Dapol version is based on the only preserved earlier type of railcar. Which has deep side frames and short springs. 34180091615_0601660c49_b.jpg Whereas it seems to me this model should have narrow frames and longer springs ????????????????? gwrt2365.jpg 7119657311_3f97a25915_b.jpg Ooops ! Well spotted - I don't think that any of the reviews - printed or digital - have spotted that. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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