Dapol Pannier - A haynes manual

[Chris Higgs]

My Dapol Pannier arrived today. After admiring it for a minute or two – it’s a little beauty - I proceeded to strip it down to its component parts! For those who feel the same urge, here is a sequence which works – it is not necessarily the one I followed though.

1. Unclip the outside brake rodding.
    
   
2. Unclip the couplings.
    
   
3. Remove the gear cover plate from the bottom of the chassis, which includes the coupling mounts. This has clips to the front and rear of the wheels. If you are careful, you do not have to cut any of the piping that is found below the footplate to do this.
    
   
4. This reveals a small screw under the footplate at the front. This bolts the footplate to the tank and boiler assembly. Unbolt this
    
   
5. Remove the cab, having first unclipped the main tank handrails as well as the rear vacuum pipe from the cab. This is as per the instruction sheet. Then remove the DCC chip blanking plate
    
   
6. There are two clips which hold the rear of the tanks to the footplate. Unclip these and lift the tanks until two screws are revealed each side of the chassis where the wires are attached. Unscrew these, as well as two on top of the blanking plate socket. This now allows the tanks to be fully removed. Whilst doing this be careful to detach various bits of pipework as needed without damaging them.
    
   
7. There is a screw at the rear on top of the footplate. Unscrew this, and the chassis can now be removed from the footplate.
    
   
8. Remove the crank pins. They are a knurled fit into the wheels, and can be prised out using a combination of small screwdrivers and pliers (and patience). Undo the crankpin nuts using the tool provided by Dapol in the accesories pack. Remove the coupling rods.
    
   
9. The wheels can be detached from the plastic axles by prising them off. The wheels are metal wheels with half axle, which has an outside diameter of 3mm and internally a 1.4mm square hole which fits over the axle, ensuring quartering - provided you don't remove the axles themselves from the chassis.
    
   
10. You can separate the two halves of the split-frame chassis by undoing the two screws in one side of it. Be warned, at this point consider carefully if you will have the skill to reassemble it with all the gears in the correct positions.
    

Having got this far, I can see three possible options for converting the loco to 2FS.

• Get the Dapol wheels turned down. They are quite a fine profile (1.7mm thick, 9.45mm diameter with 10.65 diameter over the flange, flange thickness 0.5mm) and I think just removing some metal from the rear of the flange to reduce it to 0.3mm thickness would produce a working result.
   
  
• Attempt to replace the wheels with 2FS ones from the shop. The 9.5mm drivers (shop item 3-008) could be used, and a standard ‘metric’ muff of 3mm diameter (3-102b) would run in the bearings of the Dapol chassis - assuming there are no wear issues with an acetal muff running in brass bearings. The gears on the driven axle are 20 tooth MOD 0.3 gears (3-393). The only problem is that there is then no pickup from the wheels!
   
  
• Fit a replacement etched chassis. I believe the rear axle driven frames that were provided with the Farish pannier chassis would fit the Dapol body, and the centre axle drive type might do so also, although it is far from an ideal solution. I am also thinking of a new variant with centre axle drive but with the motor facing forwards instead of back.
  

Edited November 26, 2012 by Chris Higgs

[Donw]

Thank you for that Chris. Descision time now whether to use the Farish body I have or fork out for the Dapol.

Don

[Tim V]

Suggest use both, you can't have too many panniers...

[Chris Higgs]

Thank you for that Chris. Descision time now whether to use the Farish body I have or fork out for the Dapol.

Don

 

The Dapol is an expensive option. 55 quid at the moment as against a tenner for a Farish body plus 15 for the etched chassis. The way the motor is mounted in the body tanks instead of attached to the chassis probably limits the resale possibilities of the Dapol innards.

 

Chris

[Chris Higgs]

Having got this far, I can see three possible options for converting the loco to 2FS.

• Get the Dapol wheels turned down. They are quite a fine profile (1.7mm thick, 9.45mm diameter with 10.65 diameter over the flange, flange thickness 0.5mm) and I think just removing some metal from the rear of the flange to reduce it to 0.3mm thickness would produce a working result.
   
  
• Attempt to replace the wheels with 2FS ones from the shop. The 9.5mm drivers (shop item 3-008) could be used, and a standard ‘metric’ muff of 3mm diameter (3-102b) would run in the bearings of the Dapol chassis - assuming there are no wear issues with an acetal muff running in brass bearings. The gears on the driven axle are 20 tooth MOD 0.3 gears (3-393). The only problem is that there is then no pickup from the wheels!
   
  
• Fit a replacement etched chassis. I believe the rear axle driven frames that were provided with the Farish pannier chassis would fit the Dapol body, and the centre axle drive type might do so also, although it is far from an ideal solution. I am also thinking of a new variant with centre axle drive but with the motor facing forwards instead of back.
  

 

After thinking about it, I'm going to go for option 2. I don't think I can live with retaining the horribly oversized crankpins and coupling rods that option 1 would imply - unless I make up some special crankpins (which is possible) and then use etched coupling rods.

 

To solve the pickup problem with Option 2, I'm going to replace the brass bushes that are fitted in the Dapol chassis. These are 3mm I/D, 3.78mm O/D. They will be replaced with some which are 3.2mm I/D (1/8" in old money) which are just standard 4mm scale axle bearings that I happen to have for a 3mm scale kit I do. They have the same O/D as the Dapol ones. I can then use the 2mm SA drive bushes (item 3-112) which are 1.5mm I/D, 3.2mm O/D as sleeves on the axles. Not sure if I will fix these to the wheels or the chassis yet. Combined with the 3mm O/D muff and the gear, the conversion will be done entirely with standard components. And with almost no soldering involved, it makes it open to the maximum number of fellow modellers.

 

I could of course go out the lathe and make myself some custom bearings of 3.78mm O/D, 1.5mm I/D. But it's mighty cold this time of year in the workshop where the lathe resides.

 

Chris

[richbrummitt]

 

After thinking about it, I'm going to go for option 2. I don't think I can live with retaining the horribly oversized crankpins and coupling rods

 

Seems sensible to me (with the limited knowledge that I glean from the previous post about the construction)

 

Thank you for that Chris. Descision time now whether to use the Farish body I have or fork out for the Dapol.

Don

 

I can't justify a Dapol one. On the up side the Farish one has lots of valuable weight.

[Chris Higgs]

I can't justify a Dapolone. On the up side the Farish one has lots of valuable weight.

 

The Dapol one is surprisingly heavy. They have done a pretty good job of filling the tanks with weights. I believe it is 35g as against a Farish model weighing 47g

 

One amazing thing is how Dapol have left the cab area totally free for the DCC chip. So if you wanted to model an open cab Pannier using this as a basis you could.

 

Chris

[Atso]

Hi some great information here. As I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, is there any chance of seeing some pictures of the chassis without the body present?

 

Many thanks

[Dr Al]

Remove the crank pins. They are a knurled fit into the wheels, and can be prised out using a combination of small screwdrivers and pliers (and patience). Remove the coupling rods.

 

This surprises me. Are you sure? The standard Dapol crank pin that has been used on everything since their Britannia is a screw in component that can be removed with the small hex headed tool that comes with the locos. I'd have presumed the Pannier to be the same.

 

Are you sure you haven't just destroyed them.....?

 

If not I'd be interested to know why Dapol changed to something else. They certainly look identical to previous ones.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Chris Higgs]

This surprises me. Are you sure? The standard Dapol crank pin that has been used on everything since their Britannia is a screw in component that can be removed with the small hex headed tool that comes with the locos. I'd have presumed the Pannier to be the same.

 

Are you sure you haven't just destroyed them.....?

 

If not I'd be interested to know why Dapol changed to something else. They certainly look identical to previous ones.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Err, yes, you are right. That's a bit embarrassing. However, no serious harm done, they are not destroyed and I simply pressed them back into the wheels.

 

They remain horribly oversized compared to the 0.5mm diameter crankpins we use in 2FS though. But there are possibilities I can see by soldering in a piece of brass rod to form a smaller diameter crankpin. Or perhaps just filing the crankpin flush with the face of the wheel to allow the hole in the coupling rods to be smaller.

 

EDIT: I have amended the original posting in this thread so that no-one will read that alone and make the same mistake I did.

 

 

Chris

Edited November 26, 2012 by Chris Higgs

[Chris Higgs]

Seems sensible to me (with the limited knowledge that I glean from the previous post about the construction)

 

 

 

I can't justify a Dapol one. On the up side the Farish one has lots of valuable weight.

 

I reckon I might tempt you yet. How about an etch to build an outside framed and open cabbed 1076 class?

 

Chris

[Chris Higgs]

Fit a replacement etched chassis. I believe the rear axle driven frames that were provided with the Farish pannier chassis would fit the Dapol body, and the centre axle drive type might do so also, although it is far from an ideal solution. I am also thinking of a new variant with centre axle drive but with the motor facing forwards instead of back.

 

This turns out not to be the case. It seems that Farish subtly moved the tanks on the Pannier higher to accomodate their motor. Dapol have modelled it to scale height - you can see this is comparison photos. So the chassis design for the Farish body leaves the motor too high to accomodate it within the Dapol body. A redesign will be necessary.

 

Chris

[richbrummitt]

I reckon I might tempt you yet. How about an etch to build an outside framed and open cabbed 1076 class?

 

Chris

 

Sorry, but no thank you. I've considered it but by the time you've started chopping back and replacing parts you might as well build the tanks as well and not bother with the either body. Some castings that I believe are forthcoming from N Brass will be more helpful. Once my wrist is better and the hallway is completed I will get back to some model making.

[Dial7802]

As a quick aside, can you advise what the b-2-b is on the Pannier?

[Donw]

Chris you say the etched chassis are not suitable for use with the Dapol body. How about if I can find a suitable smaller motor. I have the original kit with the centre and rear drive chassis. I am wondering if I could use one with the Farish body and the other with the Dapol. The 1076 sounds nice but Ithink the open cabbed ones were gone before BR days or soon after.

Don

[queensquare]

I reckon I might tempt you yet. How about an etch to build an outside framed and open cabbed 1076 class?

 

Chris

 

I could be tempted. An outside framed, open cabbed 1076 class is just the sort of thing to be sold out of service to the North Somerset Light!

 

Jerry

[Chris Higgs]

Chris you say the etched chassis are not suitable for use with the Dapol body. How about if I can find a suitable smaller motor. I have the original kit with the centre and rear drive chassis. I am wondering if I could use one with the Farish body and the other with the Dapol. The 1076 sounds nice but Ithink the open cabbed ones were gone before BR days or soon after.

Don

 

The centre drive one might work with a small motor. The problem with the rear drive version is that Dapol have their motor clipped into the tanks, and it only just fits. So either a motor towards the front must be in exactly the same position as the Dapol one, or major surgery is require to remove material. The Dapol motor is already small (the same dimensions as the flat can we now sell) and anything smaller isn't going to pull nowt.

 

I am looking into a solution that perhaps uses etched frames as overlays to the existing Dapol chassis block, as Brassmasters are doing in 4mm scale. But to be honest, this loco is easily enough converted to 2FS without use of anything more than etched coupling rods and brake rodding, and our standard wheels, axles and muffs.

 

Chris

[Donw]

Thank you Chris. Continue with the Farish one and maybe add a Dapol one.

Don

[Horsetan]

My Dapol Pannier arrived today. After admiring it for a minute or two – it’s a little beauty - I proceeded to strip it down to its component parts! For those who feel the same urge, here is a sequence which works – it is not necessarily the one I followed though.

1. Unclip the outside brake rodding.
    
   
2. Unclip the couplings.
    
   
3. Remove the gear cover plate from the bottom of the chassis, which includes the coupling mounts. This has clips to the front and rear of the wheels. If you are careful, you do not have to cut any of the piping that is found below the footplate to do this.
    
   
4. This reveals a small screw under the footplate at the front. This bolts the footplate to the tank and boiler assembly. Unbolt this
    
   
5. Remove the cab, having first unclipped the main tank handrails as well as the rear vacuum pipe from the cab. This is as per the instruction sheet. Then remove the DCC chip blanking plate
    
   
6. There are two clips which hold the rear of the tanks to the footplate. Unclip these and lift the tanks until two screws are revealed each side of the chassis where the wires are attached. Unscrew these, as well as two on top of the blanking plate socket. This now allows the tanks to be fully removed. Whilst doing this be careful to detach various bits of pipework as needed without damaging them.
    
   
7. There is a screw at the rear on top of the footplate. Unscrew this, and the chassis can now be removed from the footplate.
    
   
8. Remove the crank pins. They are a knurled fit into the wheels, and can be prised out using a combination of small screwdrivers and pliers (and patience). Undo the crankpin nuts using the tool provided by Dapol in the accesories pack. Remove the coupling rods.
    
   
9. The wheels can be detached from the plastic axles by prising them off. The wheels are metal wheels with half axle, which has an outside diameter of 3mm and internally a 1.4mm square hole which fits over the axle, ensuring quartering - provided you don't remove the axles themselves from the chassis.
    
   
10. You can separate the two halves of the split-frame chassis by undoing the two screws in one side of it. Be warned, at this point consider carefully if you will have the skill to reassemble it with all the gears in the correct positions.
    

 

You forgot the classic Haynes conclusion:

 

11. Reassembly is the reverse of removal.

 

[RMurphy195]

I've ust taken delivery of one of these - my very first.

 

And I'm flummoxed - how exactly do you unclip the cab to gain access to the decoder socket - it all looks very fragile!

 

Many thanks - Richard

[MarkAustin]

I reckon I might tempt you yet. How about an etch to build an outside framed and open cabbed 1076 class?

 

Chris

Chris,

 

How likely/soon would this be. I've always had a soft stop for the GWR outside framed tanks and coul do with a couple. One as a saddle tank using the Dean Sidings resin bodfy.

[Lisa]

Is the accessories pack supplied with the loco?

 

Lisa

[Kris]

They do come with an accessory pack. 

[James Parker]

After thinking about it, I'm going to go for option 2. I don't think I can live with retaining the horribly oversized crankpins and coupling rods that option 1 would imply - unless I make up some special crankpins (which is possible) and then use etched coupling rods.

 

To solve the pickup problem with Option 2, I'm going to replace the brass bushes that are fitted in the Dapol chassis. These are 3mm I/D, 3.78mm O/D. They will be replaced with some which are 3.2mm I/D (1/8" in old money) which are just standard 4mm scale axle bearings that I happen to have for a 3mm scale kit I do. They have the same O/D as the Dapol ones. I can then use the 2mm SA drive bushes (item 3-112) which are 1.5mm I/D, 3.2mm O/D as sleeves on the axles. Not sure if I will fix these to the wheels or the chassis yet. Combined with the 3mm O/D muff and the gear, the conversion will be done entirely with standard components. And with almost no soldering involved, it makes it open to the maximum number of fellow modellers.

 

I could of course go out the lathe and make myself some custom bearings of 3.78mm O/D, 1.5mm I/D. But it's mighty cold this time of year in the workshop where the lathe resides.

 

Chris

Has Chris (or indeed anyone else) tried the conversion of the Dapol 57xx to 2mm FS?  The thread goes cold after Chris spells out the alternatives so its not clear if anyone got it working (My wife bought me one for Christmas - excellent research on her part - but I now have to decide whether to take it back to the shop for an exchange or put it aside for a future conversion after I finish the 45xx Eveleigh chassis I just bought.)

 

James

[Chris Higgs]

Has Chris (or indeed anyone else) tried the conversion of the Dapol 57xx to 2mm FS?  The thread goes cold after Chris spells out the alternatives so its not clear if anyone got it working (My wife bought me one for Christmas - excellent research on her part - but I now have to decide whether to take it back to the shop for an exchange or put it aside for a future conversion after I finish the 45xx Eveleigh chassis I just bought.)

 

James

 

Yes, I believe it has been done. Not by me though. I am working on other stuff for now.

 

I wouldn't take it back. Its a lovely model. Having said that, when we get the Farish 64XX I think we will have something where the conversion is going to be easy.

 

 

Chris