NSR Brakevan in 4mm scale by 3D printing

[5D_Stoke]

A couple of updates since my last post:

 

1. I'm giving an illustrated talk at the HMRS Museum & Study Centre at Butterley, Derbyshire on the evening of Wednesday this week, 10 April, and anyone is welcome to attend - see the HMRS website at: http://www.hmrs.org.uk/whatson/details.php?id=1991

This is an opportunity to see some of the 3D printed models, hear about how they were created and ask some questions. I don't prefess to be an expert but will be sharing some of my experiences of pushing the boundaries of this technology for modelmaking mainly in 7mm 7 4mm scales.

 

2. There have been some serious problems with the CAD file for the NSR 10 ton brake van in 4mm scale as offered for sale in my Shapeways shop. My apologies for this and thanks for your patience if you have tried to order one. Shapeways have found errors in two files I have uploaded for it, although these are only minor changes to files which has successfully printed. Hence I have had to take down the WSF version, and three potential customers are still waiting for their models in FUD to be printed. I will get a printable file reloaded as soon as I can, I have spent several frustrating hours over the last few days trying to remedy the problems, which mainly concern a mysterious breakdown in the quality of the mesh for the flat surfaces of the framing, and the integration of some of the detail parts as separate "shells". There are also queries on wall thickness for the brake handle, and while this has successfully printed in Prime Gray I have reluctantly had to delete it on both the SWF and FUD offerings. It is all particularly puzzling because, as the photos on this site show, virtually identical files have been printed by both iMaterialise and Shapeways already! I think I have now cracked all the problems but still have at least a couple more hours work to do to refix the errant shells.

 

3. I've been asked whether the 10 ton brake van model could be produced in 3.5mm scale (HO) and the answer is certainly yes, but I will have to fix the basic file first and get it printing successfully in 4mm scale again. The main areas of difficulty in rescaling to 3.5mm are in wall thickness, which for the verandah is already at the minimum spec for FUD, and whether some of the bolt head detail will print or not. As I don't need a 3.5mm scale model myself then if I make one available it will need someone to order a first one and preferably take some photos of it so we can all see the results. The same applies in S scale, as I think I mentioned above, but so far no interest in an S scale version and I'd be the first to admit they would probably be quite expensive. The ballast brake and LNWE Refrigerator Van could also be offered in HO if anyone is interested but I'll only rescale the files and load them up if I have some evidence people might be interested.

 

Hope to meet RMwebbers on Wednesday if you can make it to the HMRS Study Centre, drop Tony Straw there a line if you are unsure how to get there.

 

Happy modelling...

 

Mark (5D_Stoke)

[AJ427]

Many thanks for the orders that have come through in the last 24 hours for the NSR 10ton Goods Brake Van and NSR Ballast Brake Van.

However I am very sorry to have to report that iMaterialise have suddenly taken them off sale and altered the Gallery items to "display only" so no more orders can be placed.

This is because the floor and body are connected by four short sprues therefore the staff at iMaterialise in their wisdom have decreed I am trying to get two models printed, ie floor and body, when it is surely perfectly clear to anyone that this is one model?! Apparently iMaterialise classes them as a "connected grouped model" and this deprives them five Euros handling fee. After accepting, pricing and delivering them, their technician Darya mailed me to say "we do not accept connected grouped models for production in Prime Gray anymore. This causes troubles during finishing and the handling cost is paid only once for two models." This is very frustrating and annoying to me and to anyone else who wants one of the Brake Vans but had not yet ordered. It sounds like a money-making strategy to me and I frankly don't believe the point about "troubles during finishing" as they have already printed and delivered several perfectly good examples - I have two on my desk in front of me.

I'm assured all those of you who have successfully ordered today will get your models.

Meanwhile I'll try to get these Brake Vans reprinted by Shapeways, probably in FUD and WSF, which have different properties and cost/cm2 to Prime Gray. This will probably mean extra time and cost for me, paying for new test prints to be done which I don't really need myself.

Clearly Shapeways doesn't think the same, they readily make and sell "connected grouped models"; has anyone else come up against iMaterialise's dogma on this?

Ho hum, on with the next project...

Mark (5D_Stoke)

 

Yeah I had the exact same problem - I wanted to do my N1 as a primegray sprued kit of parts with as many surfaces facing up to maximise the smooth surfaces (which, along with the cost, is the best bit about primegray). I got the same response and they wanted me to do the parts as seperate files - 15 parts with a €5 handling fee each! Instead I changed the model to a single piece body and went to Shapeways. I-materialise really need to think about this policy as it's probably losing them custom.

[edubs]

I too had to ditch a project because of this seemingly ridiculous policy. I can only find 46 scale models on the I-materialise site, compared to the many hundreds on shapeways. Those 46 include certain NSR brakevans, and a couple of other obviously sprued models, so the real total of models actually for sale must be even lower.

Edited April 11, 2013 by edubs

[Penrhos1920]

I have been inspired by your brake van and AJ's N1.  So much so that I've bitten the bullet and made a start on a Rhymney goods van with plans for a Rhymney brake van and loco later.  I'm wondering why have you separated the floor and solebars from the body and why you have printed the roof and not gone for a piece of rolled brass?

[5D_Stoke]

After about 6 months of DIY and various summer activities, I'm pleased to say the dark autumn evenings have led me to return to 3D design and printing. Thanks for the encouraging messages on this forum and in private e-mails, and especially those who have sent me photographs off-list of the NSR brakevans in the course of construction and finishing. I saw another one today and it makes it well worthwhile sharing the adventures in this new technology for modelmaking.

 

Some updates:

1. Unfortunately Shapeways now seem to be unable to print my NSR 10 ton brakevan and have turned down a couple of orders, sorry, so it now no longer appears in my Shapeways shop until I work on the identified wall-thickness problems - I think they may have changed the FUD spec without me noticing. The ballast brake is still available in FUD (expensive but v detailed) or WSF (much cheaper but don't expect the fine detail and some smoothing of the surfaces will be needed).

2. I remain convinced that Prime Gray is the best material in terms of surface finish, rigidity and economical cost, so I am intending to relaunch the two brakevans with imaterialise now I've calmed down from being messed about (see earlier posts)! I will integrate the floor and solebar section into the rest of the model and remove the roof so the interior is accessible. I have also designed a floorless version but on reflection I prefer Penrhos1920's suggestion to make the roof from brass or plastic sheet.

3. Gave up completely on producing model figures as the technoology is just not up to producing the thin sections needed for fine detail - one to shelve for future years I think.

4. Latest projects include:

 - NSR KS class Kerr Stuart 0-6-0T in 4mm scale, a WSF test print has turned out perfectly including cab steps, interior detail, etc and I need to now modify it for the Electrotren HO chassis, will post some photos for comment. Aiming to make this available in Prime Gray in 4mm scale, and then maybe WSF in 7mm scale.

- RCH CEGB 20 ton tippler wagon bodies in 4mm and 7mm scale to two designs - a 7mm WSF print has turned out reasonably well but it has taken hours to make modifications for it to print in 4mm in Prime Gray due to thickness problems. The 4mm version fits the Hornby/Mainline/Airfix or equivalent kit underframe, 7mm version fits the Parkside Dundas underframe.

- Masters for the NSR 4 wheel third class carriage 127 as just restored by the North Staffordshire Railway Rolling Stock Trust - see http://www.knottycoachtrust.org.uk/index.html - this is in 7mm scale to suit the Parkside Dundas RCH 20ton underframe (which it's restored on) or the original design of NSR wooden underframe. I toyed with the idea of making the body available as a single 7mm 3D print but even in Prime Gray that would have been over £150. So I'm sticking to making masters for resin casting as seperate sides, ends, floor, etc. Requests have already been received for 10mm and 4mm scale versions...

 

The main distraction in the last couple of months has been the sudden arrival of a Makerbot 3D research model printer in the labs I manage at work. After a few test prints no-one has been able to print anything useful on it - my first attempt was a 7mm scale platform bench which was a complete disaster. It's a pretty crude minature hot glue gun really, when compared to the technology used by Shapeways and imaterialise, but I'm getting the hang of it and am using it to produce the simpler shapes such as seats for the NSR 4 wheel carriage. In case you're wondering, we bought it to produce disolvable scaffolds for growing human tissues in particular sizes and shapes - so called "regenerative medicine" - not model trains!

 

There's some really good looking stuff appearing on Shapeways now, eg 16mm scale slate wagons, track scratchbuilding bits, whole loco bodies, it's amazing so please do start a thread and let people know how things are moving on, from a designer, printer and builder perspective.

 

Mark (5D_Stoke)

Edited October 25, 2013 by 5D_Stoke

[Etched Pixels]

On point 1. Yes they have - repeatedly, and it also sometimes seems to be depend on the operator so something will randomly get printed or rejected. They've changed the WSF rules a bit of late too.

[5D_Stoke]

About 9 months have passed since my last update so I thought I'd bring some news to this thread.

 

1. Shapeways can print a revised version of my NSR 10 ton brakevan. I've removed the roof as this was the most problematic and vulnerable part, best added from brass sheet to avoid the problem of the ridging and the corners chipping off. The floor and solebar unit has been made integral to the body and the brake handle is now included in precisely the right position so a length of .45mm handrail wire can be threaded up through it and its brackets, glued and then the support sprues can be snipped off. The NSR 10 ton brake van is available in two prototypical versions:

• NSR 10 ton brake van body with single side window in FUD @ Euro 41.50: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1728463/nsr-10ton-brake-van-body-4mm-scale-single-window.html?materialId=61
• NSR 10 ton brake van body with double side windows in FUD @ Euro 41.68: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1728509/nsr-10ton-brake-van-body-4mm-scale-double-window.html?materialId=61

and then I have produced two variants

• NSR 10 ton ballast brake van body in FUD @ Euro 41.81: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1736376/nsr-10ton-ballast-brake-van-body-4mm-scale.html?materialId=61
• NSR 10 ton breakdown train brake van in FUD @ Euro 43.21: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1736563/nsr-10ton-breakdown-train-brake-van-body-ndash-4mm-sca.html?materialId=61

and a completely new model is the later 20ton type supplied by Cravens, also with the brake handle in the correct place and the characteristic double side windows of slightly different design to the 10 ton version, this is a bigger, heavier vehicle but due to some design improvements the model is actually slightly cheaper than the others:

• NSR 20 ton Cravens brake van Euro 40.29: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1859490/nsr-20ton-cravens-brake-van-body-4mm-scale.html?materialId=61

To the same specification a LNWR refrigerator van body is also available, it's a flush sided vehicle and all the detail is absolutely to scale so it doesn't have the same obvious bulk as the outside framed brakevans do, and the detail could easily be lost if the paint is too thick...:

• LNWR 8 ton refrigerator van Euro 38.97: http://www.shapeways.com/model/1776119/lnwr-6ton-refrigerator-van-body-4mm-scale.html?materialId=61

Despite what the Shapeways site says about some of these being "First to Try" all of them have been printed at least once, but small improvements made since in some cases. I've discontinued all WSF versions as the detail is not good enough.

 

2. Prime Gray versions are also available from imaterialise for three of these models, although the surface finish is slightly better than FUD and the cost is lower, the brake handles do not print properly so the modeller will have to make his/her own. As is compulsory with imaterialise, all three have been successfully printed, have a look for them on the imaterialise site at http://i.materialise.com/shop as I can't get the URL's to come up on the home PC:

• NSR 10 ton brake van body with single side window
• NSR 10 ton brake van body with double side windows
• NSR 10 ton breakdown train brake van body

I've not re-offered the ballast brake in Prime Gray as I just didn't need any more prints (the NSR probably only had one and I've ended up with three models of it already...)

 

I'm interested in sharing advances in 3D model design and only make a couple of Euros designer fee on each model so if you've fancied a 3D printed model on your 4mm layout do take a look. Several other projects are on the go just now including LMS 6wheel vans and GNR carriages in 4mm, plus NSR carriages in 7mm and 10mm scales but I'll start a new thread for those.

 

Happy modelling!

 

Mark (5D_Stoke)

Edited August 11, 2014 by 5D_Stoke

[5D_Stoke]

Prototype photos etc have been added to the imaterialise pages for the NSR brake vans in Prime Gray at http://i.materialise.com/shop, search for "NSR".

 

There are now three types of LMS 6 wheel outside framed van on offer in Prime Gray from imaterialise too. I hope to produce the open slatted fish van variant soon as well. They appear quite expensive but these distinctive vans are notoriously difficult to build in etched brass due to the multiple laminations required so 3D printing is an ideal method. The eliptical roof is included and will need sanding down on very fine wet-and-dry paper but other than that only handrails and buffers need fitting and the body is complete.

 

I am intending to produce a common MR 6 wheel underframe for these vans as well, to suit the Brassmasters cleminson unit, but I need to test-build that combination myself to prove it works...

 

Mark (5D_Stoke)

[5D_Stoke]

An update on the 4mm scale LMS 6 wheel van bodies, all four types are available at imaterialise:

LMS 6 wheel Milk Van solid sides: http://i.materialise.com/shop/item/lms-6-wheel-milk-body-4mm-scale?query=LMS&category=all-categories&sortBy=interesting&pageNumber=1&pageSize=18&index=0

LMS 6 wheel Milk Van slatted sides: http://i.materialise.com/shop/item/lms-6-wheel-milk-van-body-slatted-sides-4mm-scale?query=LMS&category=all-categories&sortBy=interesting&pageNumber=1&pageSize=18&index=2

LMS 6 wheel Covered Carriage Truck: http://i.materialise.com/shop/item/lms-6-wheel-cct-van-body-4mm-scale?query=LMS&category=all-categories&sortBy=interesting&pageNumber=1&pageSize=18&index=5

BR 6 wheel Cell truck conversion from CCT: http://i.materialise.com/shop/item/lms-br-6-wheel-cell-truck-van-body-4mm-scale?query=LMS&category=all-categories&sortBy=interesting&pageNumber=1&pageSize=18&index=6

 

Three are available on Shapeways site, I've not added the fourth yet:

LMS 6 wheel Milk Van solid sides: https://www.shapeways.com/product/2KMNPCVAQ/lms-6wheel-milk-van-body-solid-sides-4mm-scale?li=user-profile&optionId=41665208

LMS 6 wheel Covered Carriage Truck: https://www.shapeways.com/product/3K3XQMAVU/lms-6wheel-covered-carriage-truck-body-4mm-scale?li=user-profile&optionId=17869348

BR 6 wheel Cell truck conversion from CCT: https://www.shapeways.com/product/HAYLL7LMQ/lms-br-6wheel-cell-truck-body-4mm-scale?li=user-profile&optionId=17869149

 

I hope to have a couple of fully completed versions to photograph very shortly, using a Brassmasters and a Bill Bedford underframe kit, plus 3D printed solebar and axlebox assemplies that I'll make available. However I have got rather distracted designing some LMS 4 wheel vans in 7mm scale plus a whole series of NSR 4 wheel carriages to fit an RTR underframe, which should also appear in 4mm scale on imaterialise soon.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark (5D_Stoke)

Edited May 22, 2015 by 5D_Stoke

[5D_Stoke]

An update on this topic. The NSR single-window brake van has been unavailable for some time through Shapeways due to an apparent small fault in the design, so, in response to a request, I have made it available again: 
NSR 10 ton brake van body with single side window in Smooth Fine Detail Plastic:  https://www.shapeways.com/product/XBMM6T3UG/nsr-10ton-brake-van-body-single-window-4mm-scale?optionId=127888815

After a long break, and following purchase of my own 3D printers to enable more cost-effective prototyping, watch out for some more carriage and wagon uploads soon.

 

Mark ('5D_Stoke')