StuartM Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 This is the Mk2 version of this piece of trackwork The MK1 can be view here http://www.rmweb.co....de-slip-in-2mm/ The MK1 was OK but but not as good as I would have liked so I started again, I also continued to work on the Mk1 which has evolved into something quite different to what I had in mind, so in effect I've ended up building two quite different layouts based around the same track formation so in my mind it made sense to split the two into two separate threads. The trackplan is as before and this section of track is all but complete, with just the isolation cuts and power droppers to be soldered on and some general tidying up before mounting the whole thing into the bigger layout board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
backofanenvelope Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Good grief ee's at it again!! Am very impressed and can only dream of doing such intricate work some day (when I can get more sleeper stock). Well Done Stuart. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted November 26, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2012 Looks very effective Stuart. I will be interested to see the full layout. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonRyan Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 What did you do with the MK1? Perhaps you might consider passing it on and posting it across the Atlantic. It would make an interesting display diorama to be part of a comparison "display" to show 2mmFS trackwork. (see my thread in the "Wanted" section for more details on the "project") -Cody F. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted November 26, 2012 Author Share Posted November 26, 2012 What did you do with the MK1? Perhaps you might consider passing it on and posting it across the Atlantic. It would make an interesting display diorama to be part of a comparison "display" to show 2mmFS trackwork. (see my thread in the "Wanted" section for more details on the "project") -Cody F. The Mk1 is alive and well, read the first post and follow the link, It just evolved into something else Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Turnout operating mechanisms The Mk1 uses servos and circuit boards but his time I thought try manual operation. I've stuck with what has now become 'my' standard turnout operating mech although in a slightly altered form, but I'm playing around with various options to see what works best for me. In the first photo I've added a small plastic rod which I can use to switch the points while I'm getting the switch blades to work and I've also added a small length of 0.45mm wire which works as a spring, returning the switch blades to their default position. When this works, it works well, but it doesn't always seem to work. The next option (photos 2&3) still have a spring made from 0.45 wire but this time placed end on and fitted into small 0.5mm holes, this does work well everytime. push against the rod to change the points , let go and they switch back again The final option (photo 4) is just a plain rod with no return spring, this also works well. The idea (at the moment) is to connect all the turnouts to a small lever frame and then connect micro switches to either the mechanisms, the rods or the levers to change track polarity. I don't do mechanical so this is a learning curve for me. Any ideas or recommendations gratefully received. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Finally got the track wired so I can begin testing it with some motive power and rolling stock. After a couple of hours tweaking rails, switch blades and check rail gaps it all finally works! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Looks good Stuart. You are missing a checkrail from the 3 way BTW. (centre road) Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 The isolation gaps were made using a fret saw and each section of track is temporarily wired back to a breadboard atop of the baseboard, this allows me to connect each section together which allows track testing as the train is then able to move along a route, I can then reconnect the wires without the need to keep repeatedly stripping the ends of the wires and twisting them together to check the next route. Eventually this will be replaced with a permanent cross connection mechanism which will be placed beneath the baseboard. Because the baseboard is a sheet of aluminium I've double insulated the wires with heat shrink where they pass through the baseboard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Looks good Stuart. You are missing a checkrail from the 3 way BTW. (centre road) Cheers Jim So I am, Thanks for pointing this out Jim I think the same thing happened with the Mk1. doh! I must be a slow learner, Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted December 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2012 Turnout operating mechanisms The Mk1 uses servos and circuit boards but his time I thought try manual operation. I've stuck with what has now become 'my' standard turnout operating mech although in a slightly altered form, but I'm playing around with various options to see what works best for me. In the first photo I've added a small plastic rod which I can use to switch the points while I'm getting the switch blades to work and I've also added a small length of 0.45mm wire which works as a spring, returning the switch blades to their default position. When this works, it works well, but it doesn't always seem to work. The next option (photos 2&3) still have a spring made from 0.45 wire but this time placed end on and fitted into small 0.5mm holes, this does work well everytime. push against the rod to change the points , let go and they switch back again The final option (photo 4) is just a plain rod with no return spring, this also works well. The idea (at the moment) is to connect all the turnouts to a small lever frame and then connect micro switches to either the mechanisms, the rods or the levers to change track polarity. I don't do mechanical so this is a learning curve for me. Any ideas or recommendations gratefully received. I like this - that's my kind of digital control! Highbury uses a very similar system and has been pretty much trouble free for thirteen years and sixty odd shows. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted December 8, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hi Stuart, I've used mechanical control in various scales since the mid 60's after experiencing the use of H&M point motors, and find it simple to make and reliable once set up. My recent foray into N/2mm has used Peco/Seep/Cobalt/Servo motors in turn to try and get something as easy and reliable in operation, and with the next layout I will be reverting back to mechanical. This is not of the wire/tube variety, but rods/angle cranks, mostly made up crudely out of brass/steel rod/wire/tube and sheet. The torsion rod system the North London Group of the S4 society developed for one of their layouts many years ago (can't remember which now), works well, but like most really requires an 'open/clean' baseboard underside, much as you have i.e. no cross struts etc. It's not quite as easy in some ways to do it these days as the amount of surplus electrical gear around in respect of lever switches which could be used as lever frames and also change point polarity has pretty much disappeared. One aspect I would suggest is that if you intend to use lever frames then ensure that there is as much movement made here as possible, and geared down/absorbed at the actual point. You don't need much distance movement in 2mm, but allowing much more in any scale allows for loss/absorption at joints/linkage and expansion/contraction due to temperature changes through the year. As you have probably already discovered having some means of holding the point blades firmly against the stock rails when using scratchbuilt pointwork is the key requirement. The cheap/easy to get DPDT slider switches could be used on the roding near to the point tiebar mech to hold one way/the other and also change polarity. There are loads of ways of doing it, all crude, simple, reliable, and mostly quite cheap too. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hi Stuart, I've used mechanical control in various scales since the mid 60's after experiencing the use of H&M point motors, and find it simple to make and reliable once set up. My recent foray into N/2mm has used Peco/Seep/Cobalt/Servo motors in turn to try and get something as easy and reliable in operation, and with the next layout I will be reverting back to mechanical. This is not of the wire/tube variety, but rods/angle cranks, mostly made up crudely out of brass/steel rod/wire/tube and sheet. The torsion rod system the North London Group of the S4 society developed for one of their layouts many years ago (can't remember which now), works well, but like most really requires an 'open/clean' baseboard underside, much as you have i.e. no cross struts etc. It's not quite as easy in some ways to do it these days as the amount of surplus electrical gear around in respect of lever switches which could be used as lever frames and also change point polarity has pretty much disappeared. One aspect I would suggest is that if you intend to use lever frames then ensure that there is as much movement made here as possible, and geared down/absorbed at the actual point. You don't need much distance movement in 2mm, but allowing much more in any scale allows for loss/absorption at joints/linkage and expansion/contraction due to temperature changes through the year. As you have probably already discovered having some means of holding the point blades firmly against the stock rails when using scratchbuilt pointwork is the key requirement. The cheap/easy to get DPDT slider switches could be used on the roding near to the point tiebar mech to hold one way/the other and also change polarity. There are loads of ways of doing it, all crude, simple, reliable, and mostly quite cheap too. Izzy Thanks for the advice I must admit after designing the servo control pcbs for the Mk1, a simple push/pull wire set up is joyfully simple I thought about using dpdt slider switches and I still might do yet, my work evolves as it goes along so god knows where it will all end Rgds, Stuart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Finally the wiring and trackwork is now complete and working. I've split this update over a couple of posts as there is so much to fit in. This post shows the completed underside of the trackwork. The four points that are not controlling the slip have micro switch's fitted to control the frog polarity and the last photo shows the revised spring mechanism that holds the switch blades of that point in place. This is all so simple compared to the use of electronics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Wiring the slip caused me more problems that I thought it would. As you will see from one of the diagrams there are four sections of rail that can be either positive or negative and these need to be switched according to the route set. the remaining sections remain fixed polarity. With a peco double slip there are only two point motors required and these do all the switching, but my slip has four point mechanisms and unless I was going to switch each point in a certain order everytime I set a route another method was going to have to be found. I did go down the electronic route to start with with and went as far as designing an small pic controlled circuit that would switch four relays on and off as required but I have enjoyed the the manual approach to this layout and didn't want to have to faff around with an auxiliary power supply for the circuit etc so in the end I decided that the simplest option would be to have four switch's that I set for each route. Double os slip.1.pdf Double os slip.2.pdf Tandem turnout.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 As it was Christmas I treated my self to a refurbished video camera off ebay for £55 and have shot a couple of short clips to show the slip in operation, in particular the smooth running over the pointwork. Switching Slow running Tandem Turnout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 And the final post in this section is the completed board atop of the larger board that it will be fitted to. The idea is that the board with all the complex stuff on will be inserted into the large oblong hole you can see and if the larger board flex's, this hopefully won't affect the pointwork. Plus its a lot easier working on a board 18x6" than one that measures 5'x18". Once the boards are fixed together then the remaining track can laid and finally at long long last work on the scenery and buildings etc can begin In the background are three ngauge loops, I used to have a large ngauge station in this location with 4 platforms, goods loops, sidings and a large loco stabling point. The layout had over 40 turnouts and 4 slips, however I have now dismantled this in anticipation of a possible house move later this year. One of the benefits is that it has allowed me create a larger work bench area while being able to watch trains pass by in the distance. I've come to realise that I prefer making things to playing with things so the increased work space is very welcome as I have a number of projects on the go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 The track board has now been fitted to the layout board. You'll notice that along the front there is a recessed section, this is where the point rods will be extended to and the switches fitted. Now I can lay the rest of the track and start adding the embankment, the tunnel and the buildings etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 The complex track including the run round is now complete and working, but while laying the sidings it became obvious that the embankment was going to get in the way of one of the proposed platforms, so after making some building mock ups and playing around for a while with some ngauge track, I've decided to add one more turnout which will provide an additional siding into a loading bay. The photos show the state of play so far. The spur into and out of the yard disappears under the 4 track mainline The final position of sidings and buildings as been worked out Just one more turnout one siding and a headshunt and then the yard track is complete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2013 Very impressive Stuart. I like the use of mock ups to get the feel of how it will all look. You are going to be busy building enough stock for a 4 track main line. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 Very impressive Stuart. I like the use of mock ups to get the feel of how it will all look. You are going to be busy building enough stock for a 4 track main line. Don Thanks Don, The 4 track mainline is really just for the look of the thing, it will add visual context and allows me to run the spur into and out of the yard to a hidden siding on the otherside of the mainline. My current thinking is to make small modular layouts like this, that can, over time eventually all be joined up, the MK1 version http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50534-an-asymetrical-double-outside-slip-in-2mm/ has four lines that will disappear under a bridge, these four lines 'could' be joined to the four lines in this model. I also have plans in my head for another sissorslips type depot http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37831-a-2mm-loco-service-point/ , again with four lines that could be bolted inbetween the other two layouts. But this will be a few years from now. For the moment I will be able to place ngauge (wash my mouth out) stock on the mainline for photographic purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted February 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you were to paint a certain buscuit factory and some gasometers on the backscene it would be reminiscent of Reading where the low level goods to the east of the station had a line which dived under the main lines. I grew up on the other side of the river from it all. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you were to paint a certain buscuit factory and some gasometers on the backscene it would be reminiscent of Reading where the low level goods to the east of the station had a line which dived under the main lines. I grew up on the other side of the river from it all. Don You've been reading my mind!!!! That is exactly the idea I was aiming for I was even wondering today about how to add a gasometer's to a back scene or whether to go for biscuits instead The fact that you got it at such an early stage pleases me immensely It won't be a true representation but more of an artistic interpretation I used to live in Goring and spent many a happy hour at the end of platform 4 of RG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 A short video showing the merits of my Transparent Test Truck, You'll notice the shunter is more footsure than the truck but the truck tends run more smoothly with the weight of Gods hand pushing it through the track work, still the video gets the point over Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 The past few weeks have been spent adding the additional turnout and siding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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