StJamesStation Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to all the RMWeb family. So after a few weeks of getting nothing done today put an end to the idle standing by. I have been thinking a lot about the train set look that I always end up with whenever I build a layout. A very good friend of mine who has an amazing layout in Perth WA sent me an email a few days ago. He had read this blog of my layout and had a few very helpful tips the main one being don't worry about the edges of the baseboards too much. There is an overwhelming urge to use the straight edges as a picture frame for the art that we create on the baseboards. He said keep the curves sexy. Great suggestion as it has made me evaluate the layout from a different perspective. I have completely redesigned the track design to get away from the curve - straight - curve plan. Looking at all the great layouts online and in the magazines they all have beautiful sweeping curves and stations that seem to just blend in beautifully with those curves. You will see by the photographs there are quite a few changes. The major ones are the station is now at the far end on a curve that disappears into the distance. The engine sheds are now accessed by a turntable ( thanks to Gazmanjack's suggestion) and the freight yard is now angled at about 45 degrees to the main line rather than running parallel. I guess the great thing about designing a layout is that it's all about making it work. Design, Refine, Assess, Scrap and start all over. Until it's ballasted and stuck down it's all up for negotiation. Anyway that's enough typing here are the photos. I certainly invite comment and suggestions as always. Cheers Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 G'day Steve, Nice changes you have made to the layout. The cuved station platform will look a treat as with the nice sweeping curve below the engine depot. Does the spur seen in pic 5+6 leading towards the station carry on to a bay platform, (ie for DMU ?) or to another destination/siding ? Another possible change (possibly necessary) would be to throw in a set of points from the left track (up ?) accross to the right track (down ?), just past the points leading to the goods yard and before the point leading to the spur (bay platform) mentioned above, as to allow engines to access the loco depot from both roads. The other option is to replace the right hand point (bay platform) with a double slip and use the right hand point off the up, to connect to the double slip, if space is a concern. See below. Apologies for the grainy images ! The section marked 'remove', hasn't really been removed as it has only been moved up the board to fit the 2 x right hand points in. Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 G'day Steve, Nice changes you have made to the layout. The cuved station platform will look a treat as with the nice sweeping curve below the engine depot. Does the spur seen in pic 5+6 leading towards the station carry on to a bay platform, (ie for DMU ?) or to another destination/siding ? Another possible change (possibly necessary) would be to throw in a set of points from the left track (up ?) accross to the right track (down ?), just past the points leading to the goods yard and before the point leading to the spur (bay platform) mentioned above, as to allow engines to access the loco depot from both roads. The other option is to replace the right hand point (bay platform) with a double slip and use the right hand point off the up, to connect to the double slip, if space is a concern. See below. scan0002.jpgscan0003.jpg Apologies for the grainy images ! The section marked 'remove', hasn't really been removed as it has only been moved up the board to fit the 2 x right hand points in. Cheers, Gary. G'day Gary, thanks for the suggestions, as always they are good ones. Yes the spur in pic 5/6 leading into the station will be for a local train. Something short with only two carriages I think. I may look at putting a run around loop on there but don't want to crowd the area with track. After all the station master will have to have his vege patch somewhere. Yes I could definitely put a second set of points in to allow access to that siding from the left hand side. I have been out to the layout and made the changes. Here are the results. I have used short points as I don't have a spare RH high speed point to put in there, but I think that it will be ok. If not I will get another one and fit it at a later date. I have priced the double slips and they are super expensive. I'm trying to use all of my existing track without spending any extra money where possible. I am feeling a lot happier with the look of that now. Thanks again for the suggestions Gary. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Things change quickly on this layout. After posting the photos of the changes I wasn't happy with those short points and went back in and swapped them for high speed ones. I'm much happier with the look of them. The short ones are fine in the freight yard but not on the mainline. So here's the second update for the evening. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi Steve, Looking good ! Those few changes will make it much more pleasurable to run trains, with no major complications getting into the loco depot from either line. You mention using 'high speed' points above. They look like they are Peco large points SL88/89 or are they Peco medium points SL95/96 ?? I hear what your saying about reusing any track that is able to be used from previous layouts. I know when I bought my Peco medium points they were around the $19.00 mark, now approx. $30.00 !! I managed to salvage as much track off the old layout as I could. There was some damage done to some points, but hopefully know one will notice that once my track is down and ballasted ! Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hi Mike, I changed the points again on that crossover not long after I posted that blog a few days ago. If you go to the blog you will see I have taken those sharp radius points out and put the longer Hornby ones in. As I was looking at the photos I had taken it became glaringly obvious that I was back to building a train set. I removed and replaced them and took new photos for the blog. Instantly I saw an improvement and am much happier with it. I have a feeling that I will need to order some more points from Hattons and so may splash out on a couple of double slips. I have an excess of crossovers and curved points that I can sell on eBay so that will help cover the cost. Your suggestions are great, so many things that I'm just not aware of. I love the net, it's such a great learning tool. So please keep the suggestions coming. I read a great paper on layout design and I'm trying to follow some of the key points that were in it. Namely having the Up and down lines and their respective sidings running opposite to the flow of traffic to stop a high speed train running Into a siding at high speed. I'm down at my wife's parents house for two days so can't play with the layout too much till I get back, but I'll make some More changes to the design. I'll run a loop of the main line to access the engine shed and the goods yard. I do love the idea of yours about the goods yard. I will space those roads out a bit to allow vehicle access and an end ramp. I did have one of those on the Perth layout just before I dismantled it. A cattle loading dock is on the list and a couple of cranes as well. I'll have a look at running a curved siding parallel to the main line on the inside of the main lines with a curved loading platform for the goods yard. Well I'm going to put pen to paper and sketch up some track designs to see what I can come up with. I look forward to seeing you on RmWeb. You should post Millbank on there as well, it's a great layout and A true source of inspiration. Cheers Mike thanks again for the help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hi Steve, Looking good ! Those few changes will make it much more pleasurable to run trains, with no major complications getting into the loco depot from either line. You mention using 'high speed' points above. They look like they are Peco large points SL88/89 or are they Peco medium points SL95/96 ?? I hear what your saying about reusing any track that is able to be used from previous layouts. I know when I bought my Peco medium points they were around the $19.00 mark, now approx. $30.00 !! I managed to salvage as much track off the old layout as I could. There was some damage done to some points, but hopefully know one will notice that once my track is down and ballasted ! Cheers, Gary. Hi Gary those points are the Hornby express points. I have six of them but feel I will need a few more. As I mentioned in the post above I will probably lash out and get a couple of double slips at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Hi Steve, Yes, double slips are expensive, but with the space you save on the layout, they may be worth it in the long run. Not only that, they look good as well ! On another note, are you manually operating the points or using solenoids ?? Cheers, Gary. P.s. I also just sent you a PM regarding a few Ebay UK items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Just thought you might be interested in this if you are looking at installing a cattle dock : http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=9953&forum_id=72&jump_to=181699#p181699. Rather than buy the Ratio kit, I copied the one at Highley from some pics, although using Ratios 'Concrete Fence Posts, Gates, Signs' kit, item no. 419. Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Just thought you might be interested in this if you are looking at installing a cattle dock : http://yourmodelrailway.net/view_topic.php?id=9953&forum_id=72&jump_to=181699#p181699. Rather than buy the Ratio kit, I copied the one at Highley from some pics, although using Ratios 'Concrete Fence Posts, Gates, Signs' kit, item no. 419. Cheers, Gary. Thanks for the link Gary. I like the cattle dock, it came up nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 After a few days away from the layout I had time to come up with a redesign in my head and today I set about putting those changes into place. The big one is a third line inside the main lines to facilitate traffic into the freight yard and the engine sheds via the turntable. I will be ordering a couple of double slips and high speed points in the next day or so and when they arrive I'll slot them in but otherwise that should be all the changes for now. I pretty happy with the result and am appreciative of the suggestions that many of you have offered up. Anyway here are the photos. Cheers Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Hi Steve, Changes look good. Knowing that you are to purchase some double slips etc and following on from Mikes notes (post 31), I'd thought I'd take the time to draw up your layout on Anyrail 5, with some additional changes that Mike mentioned, regarding the double slips etc. Please note that this is not to scale, just a representation... The single slip could be replaced with a double slip, but that wouldn't be necessary, considering that trains do not have to run down the up line. I have included a shunting spur, which will help with shunting and not occupying the loco road, nor running back out onto the main (up) line. This should also help out with movements from the bay platform and down main into the goods yard. The position of the double slip on the left will give a better opportunity to access the goods yard and loco depot from the main and bay platform, which also allows more room along the main lines, (including the single slip), rather than filling it in with multiple points. Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Wow Gary Thanks so much for taking time to draw that up, it's great. It is spot on. I'm just heading out to the layout now to add that shunting spur in, or at least see if it will fit in there. I will observe and report. Thanks again. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 A couple of changes. I have dropped one of the freight yard tracks so that I can put a second shed in and still have enough room for an access road for vehicles. I've added the shunting spur in next to the turntable. It seems to fit in ok and am in the process of placing an order for said turntable and double slips from Hattons. (thanks again gazmanjack) I guess it will take about three weeks before they arrive so while I wait for that I shall start wiring droppers onto the tracks and cutting the cork for the trackbase. I need to see what alternatives there are to to the standard wood glue here in Aus. I have read a lot about copydex, but we can't get that here. I believe that there is an equivalent latex based adhesive made my Dunlop so I will see if I can get my hands on some of that. In the mean time here's a photo of the changes. Cheers Steve http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7491&st=30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike BRMA 391 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hi Steve, Things have come a long way since your first 'doodlings'. It is a great way to plan your layout as paper plans can never give the feel of the whole look. Temporary track placed on the baseboard will save you so many regrets etc later. Don't rush into it. Your photos are testimonials to your learning curve. And curves are what it is all about. Hope the email of Andrew Emmetts layout in process helps. Again the only things I can advise you of are two points (no pun but... ) 1. Always follow prototype where possible. Avoid FACING turnouts when ever possible. Safety factor. 2. Careful siting of double or single slips should follow prototype again. I encourage you to use TRAILING points onto a mainline. This of course is unavoidable in a junction situation. The single slip can follow this principle but a double slip is really two turnouts toe to toe in one. In PECO code 75 they are superb and need to be compared with the Code 100. Problem with code 100 is that it visually makes 16.5mm look narrow, code 75 reduces this visually purely by the height of the rail and to a lesser degree the thinner profile. Finally don't forget the 6 foot way rule. Only GWR track was often spaced out like what I see and that was due to broad gauge inheritance. Love watching your design progress. Mike BRMA 391 I would add a photo but can't see where to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hi Mike, Thanks for the comments and tips. I have sent you an email also. I have just placed a very large order with Hattons. The first since May last year. I have bought 2 Peco electrofrog double slips in code 75. The only problem I could have is that all of my track is code 100, but I'm sure I can make it work. I have also bought the Peco Turntable and a motor kit. A few more standard points and two more express points and a 24 pack of 970mm flexitrack I was swayed by some good specials and got a 4 pack of the Bachmann BR Mk1 GUV (SR) Green wagons along with some oxford vehicles for the RAF airfield. I stocked up on Wills coarse stone and Viaduct Brick lining (flexible) for the viaduct and some scratch building. Oh and some of the Gaugemaster backscenes,similar to the one on Millbank. All in all it took me about a week to get my shopping list together, but I'm happy with what I have ordered. I don't expect to see it for three weeks, as despite the 4 day DHL delivery guideline, that just doesnt happen, as t never comes direct to Australia via Hong Kong or Singapore but seems to go via Anchorage or Iceland or some remote ice station in the Antarctic. No photos today as nothing was done really. For old times sake....... Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hi Steve, I put an order to Hattons in late November and to my surprise, it was on my doorstep in 6 days...! Excellent I thought as it was my chrissy present ! Have you seen ID Backscenes, they are very good... : http://pufferwillies.co.uk/uk2ecommerce/department/i_d_backscenes/ Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hi Steve, I put an order to Hattons in late November and to my surprise, it was on my doorstep in 6 days...! Excellent I thought as it was my chrissy present ! Have you seen ID Backscenes, they are very good... : http://pufferwillies.co.uk/uk2ecommerce/department/i_d_backscenes/ Cheers, Gary. Hi Gary, thanks for the link. No I'd never heard of them, but have just looked at the range. I might have to get some of the summer sky ones. The best backscene I have ever seen was on the British Layout of County Gate. I saw it in 2008 at the Nottingham Exhibition. I got talking to the owner / builder of the layout. He explained that he had built all 3000+ trees by hand and had tried every concievable backscene known to mankind until settling on Photos printed onto Curved sheets of Aluminium. Super impressive as the photos show. Cheers Steve. PS Did you get the Thrilmere link? COUNTY GATE BOWLS CLUB and the beautiful backscene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Yes, thankyou Steve. I posted the link in 'Australia - Modern Scene' as well. Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 Supplies have arrived from Hattons in record time. Now to find time to use them..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 G'day Steve, Good to see your order arrived. Looks as if you'll be busy over the next week or two...! I hope you don't have a framing timber under your baseboard where the turntable is to be situated. The Expo turntable motor/gearbox you purchased, was it expensive ? Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 G'day Steve, Good to see your order arrived. Looks as if you'll be busy over the next week or two...! I hope you don't have a framing timber under your baseboard where the turntable is to be situated. The Expo turntable motor/gearbox you purchased, was it expensive ? Cheers, Gary. G'day Gary, the Expo turntable motor/ gearbox was $21GBP http://www.ehattons.com/43664/Expo_Drills_Tools_26211_Turntable_Motorising_Set/StockDetail.aspx I've not had a chance to have a look at it yet, but I'm sure it will be a good buy for the layout. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 After weeks of nothing happing on the layout finally a chance to get something done. With school holidays over our 3 1/2 year old son has gone back to pre school for three days a week which is good as it allows some time to get things done. So with said spare time at hand I decided to tackle the turntable that arrived a week or so ago. It goes together very easily and once painted and weathered look the piece. The trusty airbrush did the trick. Some railmatch light and dark rust, railmatch sleeper grime and oil and a bit of artist pastels to add to the weathered look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmanjack Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 G'day Steve, Good to see you have some more time to get on with the layout...! The turntable looks good. I know that you are going to power it up, but how are you going about indexing the turntable to the individual roads ? Cheers, Gary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJamesStation Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 G'day Gary, I need to do some research on here to learn a bit about indexing the turntable. I was thinking about using an old transformer that has great slow control capability. How have you done yours? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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