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Bakewell - Peak District Line BR - Layout Views


Alister_G
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Having now "broken ground" as it were on my new layout, I thought I'd better start a layout thread.

First, some background.

I haven't been involved in modelling since the early eighties, and things have changed a bit since then - both for myself and the hobby!

My last layout (so called) was an end-to-end attempt at modelling Bakewell in a very small shelf area in my bedroom at my parent's house, and never really progressed beyond laying some track and running an engine or two up and down. I had an H and M Duette controller, which was, for it's time, a top quality piece of kit, and quite a collection of RTR Hornby locos and stock.

Unfortunately, not long after starting the layout, real life intervened, and I moved away from my parents and over time got involved in other hobbies which didn't require the sheer space that's required for railways.

So, here I am, 30 years later, with both the space and finances to indulge myself a little.

As I was brought up in Bakewell, I suppose it was inevitable that I would want to model that station, but the Midland line through the Peak District, and Bakewell station in particular are a great subject for modelling anyway, as various people have already proved.

I plan to model the station and goods yard as it was in the late fifties, early sixties prior to it's closure. This will allow a mixture of steam and diesel locomotives. I'm going to be modelling in OO using mostly RTR stock. All the buildings will be scratch built from the excellent plans provided by Bill Hudson in his book "Through Limestone Hills", and from those provided by Stan Roberts in the Railway Modeller in 1974/75 from his own interpretation of Bakewell. I am also able to visit the site, where the station building, goods shed and other buildings still exist.

To the layout, then.

Location:

I have a couple of cellars under my house, each about 13 foot square. One is almost completely full of assorted junk, the other one less so. After a concerted effort on the part of myself and my daughter, we have managed to remove most of the junk from one cellar (and no, not by packing it into the second cellar!) to the point where I will have an area of roughly 12 and 1/2 feet by 6 feet for the layout. Within this space, I have to accommodate a stone buttress which is holding up the hearth and fireplace in the room above.

Here is THE PLAN:

post-17302-0-31243600-1354399224_thumb.jpg

At the moment, (and probably subject to change) the idea is to have the layout on two levels, with the fiddle yard and return loops underneath, and the scenic representation of the prototype above. The exact positioning of the prototype area is yet to be fixed, as I need to have a play with some templates to work out the exact curves and space required, but it will be in the bottom right area of the plan.

The Prototype track plan looks like this:

post-17302-0-11129700-1354399601_thumb.jpg

Here are a couple of photos of the cellar, in all its glory:

post-17302-0-06203100-1354397766_thumb.jpg

post-17302-0-74554100-1354397767_thumb.jpg

The table, workbench and other furniture will have to stay, as there is nowhere else to put them, so the baseboard framework will be built over the top of these items. The table will move over to the far right of the cellar where the remaining pile of junk is presently (it will be gone, honest), so that I can have a duck-under operating area in the middle.


The framework is being constructed from 4 1/2 inch tongue and groove floor boarding set on edge, with the support coming from 3 inch by 2 inch legs each nominally 3 foot long. I found that the floorboard works out cheaper than planed timber, and is also more likely to be straight along its long edge.

I haven't quite decided on the baseboard material yet, probably chipboard, and the upper level in MDF.

So, today's progress is this:

post-17302-0-26043400-1354397873_thumb.jpg

post-17302-0-16251100-1354397875_thumb.jpg

There's obviously a lot more bracing to be added, but you can begin to get some idea.

Anyway, I've rattled on enough for a first post, so I'll shut up.

More soon.

Edited by acg_mr
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I am very envious of the space and its location. I have to go to the end of the garden to get to my 10' x 12' shed which I cannot use yet as my son has his MG Midget that is being restored parked in there!

 

When I start my next layout, I will be using mainly 6mm plywood for construction. I plan to use open framing to reduce the weight and get as much out of the sheets as I can. That method will also allow access from underneath to otherwise inaccessible areas. I will make the edges of the framing from two pieces (one 76mm wide, the other 70mm wide) screwed and glued to form a 12mm piece of 10-ply with a rebate to accept the base / trackbed support or fix extensions from the bracing (strips of 10mm ply, 70mm wide this time) to support the open higher level bases. I intend to have three levels in the plan. That way I can have one level above another on one side with a further level at half height on the opposite side.

 

At this stage, my plan is fictitious GWR, probably including a station based on Penzance and a through station like Bath Spa. As a lad, I grew up on the outskirts of Bath so got to see plenty of Castles, Kings and the like. Bath also was the terminus for the S&DJR which was a fascinating line in the early 60's until closure (and mainly single track) but the rolling stock from my previous modelling is GWR because almost nothing was available then for a fan of the S&D. Bath Green Park is too big a project for me to replicate in my space or on my budget. I also want to get something that I can run fairly quickly and be expanded to the full plan later because I have two grandsons who I hope will take an interest.

 

Good luck with yours,

 

Tony

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Alastair,

 

You mention you have not modelled since the 1980s and confess to having more, shall we say 'disposable income' to lavish on your layout so we may be of a similar 'certain age'. I do not in any way wish to be patronising but I have possibly been able to spend a little more time reading similar new posts than yourself over the intervening years and since you have just started your layout may I be so bold as to suggest you scan back through layout topics and read Ian Wales post The Essence of Grantham. I'm sure Ian won't mind me saying this but his asperations were very similar to your own and he has (hopefully only temporarily) ground to a halt.

 

He discovered what many of us found out several years ago and that is gradients are a recipe for disaster and 13' x13' is actually not that spacious unless you are modelling in N gauge, another suggestion if I may, forget chipboard that's what we used back in the 80's but it doesn't take track pins and isn't nearlly as suitable as 9mm ply. Maybe you could assess what items in your two cellars you are likely to really use during one lifetime and you might just find space for a fiddle yard in the other cellar on the same level as your main layout. I recently moved house and found the local tip is a great place to meet people!

 

Bakewell is a stunning station and you could really create a lovely model railway and I look forward to watching it's progress but check out the mistakes the rest of us have made and benefit from them

 

Good luck.

 

Dave S.

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Dave, thank you, I don't find your comments at all patronising, and welcome any and all comments which may save me making costly mistakes.

 

I have spent these last few weeks reading through as many of the layout topics as I can to find what people have done, however I don't think I came across Ian's, so I'll take a look.

 

I did however find Tetleys Mills 3 and was horrified to see what you have destroyed :O :o but also looking forward to the next incarnation.

 

Thank you for your suggestion regarding baseboards, I'll take note.

 

As an inveterate hoarder, I don't think I will ever be in a position to have two empty cellars, nice though it sounds. Too many computers, and broken bits of Land Rover...

 

Thanks again for your comments.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Well, Christmas is over, the turkey's made me fat, haven't got a penny for the poor man's hat... :)

 

What I have got, is a completed framework for my new layout.

 

I will have to wait for the New Year (and a new pay packet) to buy the 18mm ply which I am going to use for the baseboards.

 

However, I couldn't resist chucking some spare chipboard on top so I could play trains... :senile:

 

post-17302-0-26394500-1356537554_thumb.jpg

 

So here's the complement of the shed, after some new allocations for Christmas:

 

post-17302-0-25006000-1356537656_thumb.jpg

 

From left to right: Standard 4MT Tank, Stanier Jubilee, Standard 4MT 4-6-0, Fowler 4F, Fowler 3F.

 

The 4MT Tank has obviously just come out of the shop, it's so clean, and they must know something I don't, as they have plastered OHLE warnings all over it. AFAIK Bakewell was never scheduled for electrification.

 

As an excuse for playing, I also set up a test gradient which would be similar to the one I'm planning, made out of offcuts of timber, to see if the locos would cope with it whilst hauling sensible size trains.

 

This is a 3 inch rise over a 7 foot length (obviously not incorporating any transition slopes at the moment, although the final one will).

 

Here is the Jubilee, pulling a 7 coach train up it without too much problem:

 

post-17302-0-30756000-1356538450_thumb.jpg

 

As you might expect, the Jinty was not happy, but firstly, this test slope is much more severe than what will eventually be built, and secondly, I would expect the Jinty to mostly be shunting the yard on the flat, not trying to go up the hills fully loaded.

 

Anyway, that's the update, more to come when I get the baseboards and begin planning in earnest.

 

Happy New Year to you all.

Edited by acg_mr
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  • 2 weeks later...
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I've yet to buy the Baseboard plywood, but had some free time this afternoon, so I thought I would make my first ever attempt to weather some of my RTR stock that I have acquired over the festive season.

 

Firstly, I received a Bachmann Standard 4MT 4-6-0 which, I have since discovered, is one of the older split-chassis models, and will hardly run due to issues with the wheels being misshapen. I thought, therefore, that this would be ideal to practice on, as it doesn't much matter if i make a complete mess of it.

 

Secondly, I received two 20T LMS brake vans, so I have taken one of them to practice weathering on, as I have a second one if I it all goes horribly wrong.

 

For my weathering I am using artists watercolour paints - something I found suggested here on the forum - as they dry to a matt finish, dry very quickly, but can be washed off quickly with warm water if I make a horrible mess.

 

All I have used on the two vehicles are "Burnt Umber" and "Plain Black", using a (roughly) 20 to 1 mix of the two colours for my basic wash, and then Burnt Umber alone for rusty areas and Black alone for heavily smoke blackened areas.

 

Here is the loco before I started:

 

post-17302-0-04114200-1357404433_thumb.jpg

 

For some reason I didn't photograph the tender in "clean" condition - dunno why...

 

post-17302-0-54566700-1357404434_thumb.jpg

 

 

So, here's the results of the weathering:

 

post-17302-0-61534100-1357404521_thumb.jpg

 

post-17302-0-03277000-1357404523_thumb.jpg

 

I'm really not sure about the end result, and would welcome some comments.

 

Here's a close-up:

 

post-17302-0-83328500-1357405007_thumb.jpg

 

As I've said, this is the first time I have ever weathered / painted anything, so I would be quite happy for people to tell me it's rubbish, and suggest improvements. As I've used watercolours, it's no big deal to wash it and start again.

 

And Here's the Brake van, before:

 

post-17302-0-08502700-1357404436_thumb.jpg

 

...and after:

 

post-17302-0-20010400-1357404526_thumb.jpg

 

I'm a lot happier with this, but again, would welcome comments. Is it dirty enough?

 

I should have the baseboards ordered by the end of next week, so this thread will become a bit more active as I start laying down track templates, and building the upper level boards.

 

Thanks for looking.

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  • 1 month later...
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It's taken me a couple of months to gather together the track, and lay the baseboards, but I'm now making some progress with this.

 

After listening to advice, and reading various threads on here, I have scaled back my grand design (don't we always overplan things) so here is where we are.

 

I am no longer building the layout on two levels, as suggested above. Instead it will all be on one level, eliminating all gradients.

 

This also means doing away with the extensive fiddle yard I had planned for the bottom level, and I have yet to work out how much storage space I can manage off scene.

 

However, the main scenic area is planned, and the track laid (although not fixed down).

 

I will be adding cork underneath each of the main running tracks, cut to give me a ballast shoulder, and the goods yard will be on the baseboard.

 

So, this is what i have at the moment: the station and goods are all on a long sweeping curve:

 

post-17302-0-95933700-1362305266_thumb.jpg

 

I've had to exaggerate the curve through the far end of the platform, to fit everything in, but as this will be under the scenic break (shown by a cardboard mockup) of the road bridge, it won't detract from the whole thing.

 

post-17302-0-15662500-1362305453_thumb.jpg

 

Here's a view from where the end of the platforms will be, looking towards the naff Hornby signal box (temporary) and a cardboard mock-up of the goods shed. Both will be replaced with proper scratch built items in time.

 

post-17302-0-93575200-1362305722_thumb.jpg

 

What storage / fiddle yard space I have will be at the back. I think I can fit four roads extending towards the station side under the scenery which will be built.

 

 

That's all for now, thanks for looking.

 

Al.

 

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Al thought I would post here rather than on Jeff's KL thread. The nearest shed to the Peak Line that had Black 5s was Derby and some were used on the Derby-Manchester stoppers particularly towards the end. I am building a Brassmasters one that was a Derby engine for a number of years so that I can run one on my Peak layout. You are right in that Duchesses and Princesses did not venture into the Peak and as I want to set my period as pre WW2 the Ivatts will be out of time and the Scots did not appear until they were rebuilt. The occasional Baby Scot was used when royalty visited Chatsworth.

 

Regarding buildings, can I recommend the Ratio Midland signal box? It's an excellent kit and will save you scratch building.

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Hi Jonathan,

 

Thanks very much for replying here. I guessed Derby would have some Black 5s, although I hadn't looked in detail, there were also some at Heaton Mersey which would probably have been seen on the Peak line as well. I have found a number of photos of Black 5s on the line, although as I said on Jeff's thread by far the most common locos were the 3fs / 4fs and 8fs on the freight.

 

The local passenger trains seem to have been a mixture of Midland Compounds and Fowler 4Fs, and the Crabs did a bit of both passenger and freight.

 

There were quite a lot of Jubilees on the line on the Derby - Manchester local expresses, as well as the London St Pancras - Manchester Victoria headline expresses. And of course, later, the Midland Pullman, not that I will be able to afford one of those for a while!!

 

I didn't know about the Baby Scots for royalty, thanks, I might have to sneak one of those in then...

 

Thanks for the heads up, I had already noticed the Ratio Midland Signal box was a very, very, close match to the box at Bakewell, so I twisted my brother's arm into buying it me for Christmas :mosking:

 

Thanks again for your interest,

 

Cheers, Al.

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Al, I suspect you don't have Bill Hudson's "Through Limestone Hills"? It's a must for anybody interested in the Peak line. Out of print now although there were rumours of re-print. There was one available in Bill's section at the PR shop at Matlock station. Have you a birthday coming up?

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Hi Jonathan,

 

Yes I do have Bill's book, thanks, I'm going to be using his plan of the station building to scratch-build my model.

 

I've also managed to get copies of the 1974 / 75 Railway Modeller with Stan Roberts' layout in, and I'm going to use his plans for the goods shed.

 

There's also this site: http://www.disused-stations.co.uk which I've found excellent for reference, and http://www.davidheyscollection.com which has a lot of Eric Morton's photos on.

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I'm glad you have Bill's book a mine of information. Stan's layout was given to PR but was broken up as they had nowhere to put it, the stock was sold off too, shame really.

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Before I start gluing any track down, I thought I'd make sure that everything would fit in, and look as near as possible to the prototype, so I have built some very rough representations of the main scenic items; the goods shed, station building and platforms, and road bridge, just to get an idea of the footprint, and how everything relates to everything else.

 

Here's the station and platforms with the road bridge balanced in the background:

 

post-17302-0-82976000-1362599673_thumb.jpg

 

The road bridge needs to be lower, set on the baseboard, not balanced on top of the platforms as it is now.

 

Here's a view on the Up line, looking towards the station from the goods shed:

 

post-17302-0-95534300-1362599758_thumb.jpg

 

I think I might have built the goods shed slightly under scale, it looks a bit dwarfed by the van. Might have another go at that, slightly larger.

 

Here's a view from the down platform, and surprise surprise, there's a Crab waddling past with a coal train towards Hassop:

 

post-17302-0-35772300-1362599942_thumb.jpg

 

Well you just knew I'd have to get some stock out to try the points :senile: :senile: :nono:

 

One thing I need to do is sort out the lighting in the cellar, it's looking decidedly dim and murky at the moment, even with the camera flash.

 

More soon, thanks for looking,

 

Al

 

 

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Hi Alistair,

 

Been following your thread and good to see track about to go down.

 

If it's not too late(!) have you considered modifying the points to introduce a slight curve to maintain the continuous sweep of the curved alignment? #175 on my current layout thread shows how I went about it (I've even been invited by the Nottingham boys to demonstrate it at their show next weekend!).

 

From my previous layout, I have much information to hand on train workings if you ever get stuck. A particularly useful book in this regard is BRITISH RAILWAYS OPERATING HISTORY Volume One - The Peak District , XPRESS PUBLISHING, 1997. I think that's the one that shows the line occupancy diagrams - fascinating stuff. Black 5's from the Manchester end would have come from Trafford Park, btw (which also had the allocation of Jubilees). Other Jub turns were manned from the other end of the line (ie Kentish Town shed). As part of the 1957 acceleration programme, 6 Brits were allocated to Trafford Park for the principal expresses - one of them subsequently disgracing itself by parting company with its tender at speed on the route!

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Hi LNER4479,

 

Thanks very much for taking any notice of my efforts. Compared to your glorious layouts, mine pales in comparison. 

 

Yes, I followed your thread with interest when you were talking about curving the points, and I think it was Larry who used a similar technique on an earlier incarnation of Greenfield - also on a curve, so I'm definitely going to have a go.

 

Perhaps more of a challenge will be the single slip that joins it, I'm not sure how much flexibility there is in that without destroying the alignment of the internal turnouts, and they're rather expensive to destroy, so I might chicken out with that...

 

Thank you, I hadn't come across that book, I'll keep an eye out for it. I really enjoy the research aspect of modelling, perhaps even more than the playing trains bit?? - no, perhaps not, but definitely a big part of the allure for me. I hadn't heard the tale of the Brit, either, see, so much to learn!

 

Thanks again,

 

Al

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Perhaps more of a challenge will be the single slip that joins it, I'm not sure how much flexibility there is in that without destroying the alignment of the internal turnouts, and they're rather expensive to destroy, so I might chicken out with that...

 

It'll be fine Al, trust me(!) It's only a very slight curve you've got there (much shallower than on mine), and if you look carefully, what I do on the single slip is a bit of a 'cheat' actually, as it's only the outer ends of the point that get altered; the central portion (with the point blades) remains untouched so you shouldn't worry about that. I reckon that you'd get away with just one set of cuts each end (between the ends of the point blades and the frogs) . However, quite understand your nervousness - best try it out on an old point first (if you have one to hand) to see if you're brave enough!

 

Just quickly flicked through one of my Peak line books that I have to hand at the moment and I was reminded that, from 1962-1966 the route was used for the prinicipal London-Manchester expresses, diverted off the WCML due to eletrification work at the southern end (including rebuilding of Euston). 'Peak' diesels plus 13 bogies were the norm for those few years which gives you further options for your time frame. Incredibly sad to think that, just a few short years later it had all gone!

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Really like how you've done the mock ups of the buildings. I chickened out so far on my 'hassop' layout. I also found the goods yard a problem so had to cut the number of tracks down. I did nearly go for bakewell. I liked the coal road a and footbridge but chose Hassop because it had the loop and I needed a p,ace to park trains :-). Look forward to seeing your progress.

 

One other thing I've used for trains on Hassop (passenger anyhow) is operation midland. I went through it and worked out what carriages I need to represent every passenger service through the peak. I can send you it if I want. I also did a timetable for Hassop which is pretty much based on Bakewell really. If you would like copies of my spreadsheets let me know.

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It'll be fine Al, trust me(!) It's only a very slight curve you've got there (much shallower than on mine), and if you look carefully, what I do on the single slip is a bit of a 'cheat' actually, as it's only the outer ends of the point that get altered; the central portion (with the point blades) remains untouched so you shouldn't worry about that. I reckon that you'd get away with just one set of cuts each end (between the ends of the point blades and the frogs) . However, quite understand your nervousness - best try it out on an old point first (if you have one to hand) to see if you're brave enough!

 

Just quickly flicked through one of my Peak line books that I have to hand at the moment and I was reminded that, from 1962-1966 the route was used for the prinicipal London-Manchester expresses, diverted off the WCML due to eletrification work at the southern end (including rebuilding of Euston). 'Peak' diesels plus 13 bogies were the norm for those few years which gives you further options for your time frame. Incredibly sad to think that, just a few short years later it had all gone!

 

Thanks "Robert" I'll do the long points first and then when I've built up some confidence I'll tackle the slip. Yes, I'd found a number of pictures of Peaks on the express runs, and I am now the proud owner of a Green Class 45 in readiness! Indeed it's a great shame the line was closed, I am just old enough to remember being taken to see some of the last work trains on the line after Bakewell had closed as a station.

 

Really like how you've done the mock ups of the buildings. I chickened out so far on my 'hassop' layout. I also found the goods yard a problem so had to cut the number of tracks down. I did nearly go for bakewell. I liked the coal road a and footbridge but chose Hassop because it had the loop and I needed a p,ace to park trains :-). Look forward to seeing your progress.

 

One other thing I've used for trains on Hassop (passenger anyhow) is operation midland. I went through it and worked out what carriages I need to represent every passenger service through the peak. I can send you it if I want. I also did a timetable for Hassop which is pretty much based on Bakewell really. If you would like copies of my spreadsheets let me know.

 

Hi cbeagleowner, I've followed your thread with interest also, as Hassop and Bakewell are very nearly a mirror image of each other, as well as being next-station-along from each other. I like what you've done so far, it's looking good.

 

I would be very grateful for copies of your information, that would be really kind of you. The only thing I have so far is a spreadsheet of the 1948 Loco allocation at Rowsley, which you're welcome to a copy of, if it's of any use to you.

 

Perhaps we should set up a virtual midland line, Robert could send a train from Gowhole sidings, then you could have it appear at Hassop and signal it away to appear at Bakewell... :senile: :no:

 

Thanks to both of you,

 

Al.

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Hi Al, I look forward to watching your progress and I have also taken on board what Dave S has said about graidents  and the like, Model Railways are always a learning curve.

 

Andy

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Hi cbeagleowner, PM sent, thanks.

 

Yes, I've spent many hours looking at that site, having seen some of E.R. Morten's photos in Bill's book and others.

 

Hi Andy, welcome, I've been a follower of your various layouts since I joined RMWeb, and if ever there was someone to learn from it's you!

 

Don't let Jeff know you've snuck across to the Midland Line though, or there will be trouble at High Lune!! :nono: :mosking:

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Morning Al

 

I've been following this thread since I found it the other day.

 

With the advice you've received so far along with the planning and research, you should have an absolutely cracking layout.

 

Duncan

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Hi Duncan, welcome and thanks very much.

 

I hope you're right, I've certainly received a lot of help and advice from many members on here, so it's up to me to get it right now!

 

I've been watching your thread with interest, as I am a complete novice at scratch building, I can only say I hope I'm as good as you when I start.

 

I'm intrigued by your username, btw, as I used to be a Paramedic... Oh and being a Pratchett fan is good too :good:

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Hi Duncan, welcome and thanks very much.

 

I hope you're right, I've certainly received a lot of help and advice from many members on here, so it's up to me to get it right now!

 

I've been watching your thread with interest, as I am a complete novice at scratch building, I can only say I hope I'm as good as you when I start.

 

I'm intrigued by your username, btw, as I used to be a Paramedic... Oh and being a Pratchett fan is good too :good:

Thanks for the comments. At present I'm still a novice when it comes to scratch building. I just make sure that I do plenty of research as well as reading a few good threads with 'scratch building masters' and take my time. Admittedly I have thrown away a few that I wasn't happy with.

 

I used to be an EMT, but politics got too much for me.

 

Duncan

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