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Coach Formations - 1959


benjy83

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Hello All,

 

I've been looking at the 1959 Passenger Train Marshalling (PTM) for the LMR Central Lines (Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Bradford, etc.) from Rob Carroll's excellent BR Coaching Stock group on Yahoo.

 

I have a couple of little questions though...

 

There is something called a "Corr. Set" (corridor set?) which is mentioned every so often, for example:

 

8:15am Bradford (Ex.) to Liverpool (Ex.)

 

a. Corr. Set (3B) (18/72) ) Leeds to

a. SK (42) ) L'Pool

I thought "3B" might either refer to 3 Bogie Vehicles or 3 Brakes but I'm not too sure! On the front page of the PTM booklet, it explains what the various codes are for either sets or coaches, so for example, it shows an "A" Set which is 2BS and a C (2 Bogie Brake Second non-corridor and 1 Bogie Composite non-corridor) and "A" Set is referred to in some of the marshalling plans. The description for a Corridor Set is not given, however.

 

The 18/72 referred to shows how many seats for each class in each coach, so for the whole corridor set, there are 18 1st class seats and 72 second class seats. Could this be two BSKs and a CK?

 

Does anyone know what a Corridor Set might be made up of? Also, am I right in thinking that it was made up of non-corridor suburban stock, rather than the normal SK, CK, BSK etc.? I'm also thinking that these are fixed formations and would be used for local services as well as

 

Ta,

 

Ben

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Hi

 

There look to be three coaches in the 3B set. My money would be on 2 BSKs (4 compatments of 6 seats in each = 24 second class seats) and a CK (three compartments of first class with 6 seats in each and four second class compartments). They would probably be ex-LMS coaches at this time, most likely Period 3.

 

If you've got access to one of the editions of Jenkinson's definitive books on LMS Coaches, you can compare the tare weight given in the marshalling diagram with the tare weights in the book and, together with a comparison of the numbers of seats) make a good guess as to the likely make up of the train. Later LMS coaches were all-steel and therefore a tad heavier than the earlier periods' stock which were mostly (but not all) built with wooden body frames.

 

I'm 300 miles away from my books right now but I hope this is useful.

 

Pete

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Hi Leander,

 

Thanks for the response; what you've written makes total sense.

 

I've not got Jenkinson's books on LMS Coaches, but I think you're right in what you say that the coaches will be LMS period 3 BSKs and a CK.

 

I had a hunt around in the book to see if there was a description elsewhere, and a similar journey via Low Fell has a description of 2 BSKs and a CK, which came to the same seating capacity as the 3B set.

 

I suppose they wouldn't be too bothered about having "premier" stock on the less prestigious routes, so older stock would be used, like you say, LMS Period 3.

 

Now... to find some of these in Crimson and Cream!!

 

Ben :)

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About a hour ago, Robert Carroll posted the following on his Yahhoo group site. I trust he won't mind me posting his comments here as they largely concur with my earlier remarks.

 

Quote removed by request - see Mr Carroll's comments at:

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BRCoachingStock/message/5591

 

'Corridor' obviously implies the use of that type of stock. '3' presumably indicates the number of coaches in the set. 'B' may indicate that the stock used wasn't of the highest quality.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that the LMR graded its carriage stock. 'A' was the classification given to coaches used for the main expresses. On the Central Division, these could be Blackpool-Euston services and could be formed of later LMS coaches and BR mark 1 stock. 'B' stock could have older carriages such as the Staniers released by Hornby, which are to pre-war diagrams. If you're modelling the period after 1956, there's no reason why the majority of such stock can't be in maroon, with the odd coach in blood & custard livery.

 

 

If you're modelling the early to mid 1950s, the use of Bachmann (ex-Mainline) B&C liveried LMS Period 1 coaches could be justified.

 

Pete

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The British Railways Railway Centres book on Leeds Central in 1957 says of the 0755 to Liverpool Exchange: "Like most of the L&Y services from Leeds, it is formed of a 3-coach LMS corridor set (Brake Third, Composite and Brake Third) which will combine at Low Moor with an identical set from Bradford." By 1959, read second for third.

 

Regarding A, B etc on the carriage ends, I'm sure I saw recently in one of the Jenkinson/Essery books that they'd spotted this designation, but didn't know what it meant. Maybe Leander has cracked it?

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