Athearn SD50 Clinic NS 5424

[modelmaker87]

Certainly is - I ended up with one in my change from a shop the other day!

 

This is fascinating Tony - proper miniature craftsmanship in action B) B) .

 

My attempt at doing what I do in my professional life but as you say, in miniature. Pleased you are finding what I do and how I go about my modelling, fascinating. Thank you.

 

Yeah really good stuff Tony, a really good bit of inspiration.

 

Thank you Martin. I'm pleased that you are enjoying it. Perhaps one day NS 5424 together with another 6 axle may grace the rails of RS Tower.

 

Really enjoying this Tony. Just proves that you CAN make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Most people would have thrown about 50 bucks worth of Details West bits at the loco and hoped for the best.

 

Yes Andrew, I think it is all too easy to go out and buy bits and then claim that you are a modeller. But millions would disagree with that statement. Its fun to see how much can be easily made with a bunch of regular modellers bench tools and see how far one can go before a trip to ones local hobby shop to buy some bits. There are bits on this engine which I did buy, modify and glue on. I'll get to them when in their sequence. Pleased you getting a kick out of this clinic. I'll be doing others as I move along.

 

Thanks guys for your kind comments, makes this so much more worthwhile for me to take the time and trouble presenting it.

 

Cheers, Tony

[Glorious NSE]

Hiya Tony, you'd be very welcome.

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys, Boy I had a hard time accessing the RMWeb server yesterday, receiving 'Attempt Failed" notices every time I tried to post my reply. Then I see that the server accepted my three hits at the send key. Edited an cleaned up now I hope.

 

Back to work. This image shows little but is part of the image sequence. It shows the spot of the first point of the dividers.

 

 

Once one mark has been made then swinging the dividers through 180 will make the second spot mark. I then go over these light marks made by the dividers with my needle "centre punch"

 

 

I'm sending these through now before the server gives up again and I lose my connection.

 

Later Guys, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Server is working this a.m. So on with the build.

 

I drill the requisite holes and glue into them the loop hooks I previously made. Now that these brass loops are firmly fixed in their respective holes it

makes it very much easier to glue two bumpers to each of them. I use CA adhesive for all the gluing of this part of the project.

 

 

To get a size perspective against a dime.

 

 

Cheers, Tony

[Pugsley]

My attempt at doing what I do in my professional life but as you say, in miniature. Pleased you are finding what I do and how I go about my modelling, fascinating. Thank you.

No worries. What do you do in your professional life, if you don't mind me asking? I'm guessing it's engineering of some sort.

[Steadfast]

Hiya Tony,

What a brilliant thread to follow! Despite my complete lack of US modelling (though I do own a yellow N scale SD-70) this is a compelling read, and some really useful tips. I'll be looking to get a set of dividers, that's for sure! I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, can't wait to read more.

cheers

 

jo

[modelmaker87]

No worries. What do you do in your professional life, if you don't mind me asking? I'm guessing it's engineering of some sort.

 

Hi Pugsley, Don't mind at all. I'm an inventor. I invent machine devices from scratch in the paper and packaging industry.

 

http://www.patentbuddy.com/Inventor/Sissons/Anthony/J/2134760

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hiya Tony,

What a brilliant thread to follow! Despite my complete lack of US modelling (though I do own a yellow N scale SD-70) this is a compelling read, and some really useful tips. I'll be looking to get a set of dividers, that's for sure! I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, can't wait to read more.

cheers

 

jo

 

Hi Joe,

 

Welcome to this thread and I'm pleased you've found it. Regardless of your lack of US modelling much of what I show on this clinic can be easily adapted and used for a variety of modelling disciplines. I remember way back drawing straight lines on body shells with a pencil to align and drill a series of holes, now, the edge of a length of tape makes things so much simpler.

 

Anyhow, perhaps keeping a presence on here might make you move to the 'dark side" as the guys call it.

 

Cheers, Tony

[Pugsley]

Hi Pugsley, Don't mind at all. I'm an inventor. I invent machine devices from scratch in the paper and packaging industry.

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity Tony - interesting stuff B) B)

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

Its a Wow...!! actually was able to clock in here right away without the usual couple hours waiting time.

 

I'm hunkering down under the sill. Starting with the pilots. The front pilot doesn't need quite as much work as the rear pilot since the plow covers

a good bit of the area. But I did feel it needed some work. This is or as, my starting point.

 

 

I decided to clear all the Athearn detail away.

 

 

The protoype shows angled slots whereas Athearn has vertical slots, so these have to be modified.

 

 

The first job is to fill the original slots and layout for the new angled slots.

 

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

I got a little ahead of myself jumping down to the pilots. A small item that I took care of whilst up on the roof. Improving the rear radiator fans. Easy job, 2 minutes max.

That 0.017" dim calculates to 0.43mm.

 

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

Continuing with the build, just a single image, its in sequence but I'm also testing the server. Don't want to spend a lot of time uploading only

to get a 'failed' notice.

 

This image goes along with the last image posted on the front pilot.

 

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

The front pilot with the repositioned angled slots. I'm outta here whilst I have a connect with the server. Hope it behaves itself from now on.

 

 

Cheers, Tony

[CraigZ]

Really enjoying this Tony. Just proves that you CAN make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Most people would have thrown about 50 bucks worth of Details West bits at the loco and hoped for the best.

 

I think Tony would agree that the Athearn SD50 is anything but a sow's ear. As RTR models go it's one of the best but it's not hyper-detailed for Conrail and that's what he's addressing. For a sow's ear take a look at any of the old Rail Power Products shells, aka RPP aka Rough Plastic Parts. Athearn has taken several of those porky products and made pretty decent models out of them. That's truly silk purse from sow's ear.

[modelmaker87]

I think Tony would agree that the Athearn SD50 is anything but a sow's ear. As RTR models go it's one of the best but it's not hyper-detailed for Conrail and that's what he's addressing. For a sow's ear take a look at any of the old Rail Power Products shells, aka RPP aka Rough Plastic Parts. Athearn has taken several of those porky products and made pretty decent models out of them. That's truly silk purse from sow's ear.

 

Hi Craig,

 

Welcome to my little bit of Andy's server Craig, well the bit that's working.

 

Athearn's SD50 blue box model is what it is, neither good, nor particularly bad. I guess you can say its as generic as it can be on the groudns that Athearn want it to somewhat suitable for all roads, colours and modellers interests. I can say its certainly a good starting point, no question and as Craig has intimated I'm changing it to suit not exactly Conrail, but into a very specific unit as I recorded it on the day. As far as RPP shells are concerned, yeah, they be dogs for sure. Tell you what Craig, I'll post a couple of pics I did with an RPP shell in my 'Modelling Chaos' thread. Not quite appropriate in this one. Good to read your post and thank you for it, hope all is well up in Cary, NC.

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

OK, now that the angled slots in the front plow are finished I move onto the ditchlight brackets. The prototype images.

 

 

And

 

 

This next image is the development of the dictchlight bracket prior to bending.

 

 

And here I show the brackets complete with Railflyer ditchlights fitted to them. I note that I don't have an image of just the ditchlight brackets.

I guess I forgot to shoot them when I was at that stage. I also show it with the coupling lever all fitted. This lever rotates in its brackets. I've

yet to figure out how to get it to work with Kadees, mind. :icon_eek:

 

Cheers, Tony

 

 

Next up the rear pilot, little more to do with that baby doll as it doesn't have a plow to hide very much.

[AndrewC]

I think Tony would agree that the Athearn SD50 is anything but a sow's ear. As RTR models go it's one of the best but it's not hyper-detailed for Conrail and that's what he's addressing. For a sow's ear take a look at any of the old Rail Power Products shells, aka RPP aka Rough Plastic Parts. Athearn has taken several of those porky products and made pretty decent models out of them. That's truly silk purse from sow's ear.

Craig I was referring more to Tony's bits of wire, plastic, and filler being turned into good looking details as opposed to the shell itself. RPP to me was always Rotton Pile of Poo.

[CraigZ]

Craig I was referring more to Tony's bits of wire, plastic, and filler being turned into good looking details as opposed to the shell itself. RPP to me was always Rotton Pile of Poo.

:icon_thumbsup2:

 

That's even better than Rough Plastic Parts...if I can remember to do it I'll snap a photo of an RPP C32-8 shell in all its "glory" for others to laugh and point at. I have a GP40X that I'd gotten a good bit into upgrading, then Athearn cut loose with theirs which had pretty much everything I was going to do, done.

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

Prototype image of the rear pilot, a tad more detail is required since it has no plow to cover those details like the front did.

 

 

I've already done the angled slots and cleaned all the tacky Athearn detail off the pilot. But Athearn's design department somehow

miss the dimensions of the coupler pocket and decided to make areas larger than the prototype. I still am puzzled how these folks

get standard EMD dimensions incorrect, but they do.

 

 

To rectify the large gap problem I removed the original bar and replaced it with one of the correct scale size.

 

 

On the lower edge of the rear pilot there is a plate. I scratched this to the correct thickness. Athearn's rendition I reckon was about

a foot thick if scaled up.

 

 

And

 

 

Later, cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

Attaching the lower pilot plate I thought of using Scotch tape to position it absolutely bang on parallel and square with the pilot.

 

 

Once adjusted to a perfectly aligned position the plate can be flapped down to apply CA adhesive.

 

 

After this 4 holes are needed for the MU hose retainers. Get your calculators out to convert to metric dims. :icon_thumbsup2:

 

 

Drill the holes.

 

 

Plant the retainers, previously bent up together with MU receptacles, cut lever and brackets and whatever else is on the prototype.

I always make my cut levers front and rear rotate on my models.

 

 

Another image showing the cut lever lifted.

 

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

I started working on several areas of the cab and low nose before I took some shots of my starting point. So additional images are kinda

like working in reverse gear here. You can see here where I have removed the nose hand grab and already repositioned it on the opposite

side. Added the vent and Overland CR control box. The control box is one of the few things I purchased.

 

 

Removing the CR class lights and filling several holes in the side of the low nose.

 

 

Just another view because I have it.

 

 

For the number boards I drill a hole in the rear of the cavity.

 

 

I made a couple of wedges to go into the number board cavities so that it provides a decent base filler to later attach the finished number

boards too.

 

 

Cheers, Tony

[bertiedog]

Because Kadee's #5 are waaay over-scale... Try http://www.sergentengineering.com/ Note: not compatible with #5

Don't forget they still have to allow for the older NMRA horn hook couplers for the RTR market, to get them to swing it needs an over wide pocket, which is filled normally by the Kadee pocket adaptor box and knuckle, which is over scale, but usually acceptable as it's backwards compatible. The Kadee Hon3 versions are smaller, and scale for HO, but sacrifice backwards compatibility. Other makers, Sergeant for instance, as mentioned do smaller scale sized knuckles.

 

Stephen.

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

I have enjoyed reading the most recent posts on the couplers, sizes, scale and such. Thanks, its great to discuss these items, hopefully with a view to being as prototypically as accurate as poss. of course all of us realise and do have to come to decisions about our models concerning prototype versus the dreaded modelling compromises. I hate having to 'accept' something when I know it isn't correct. But that is how it is, so my contribution to this discussion.

 

Perhaps I mis-stated what I was thinking at the point when I typed about the coupler pocket. Then again, what I typed I still read as correct and perhaps what I typed has been misinterpreted.

 

I said that Athearn make the coupler pocket incorrectly. Well that was incorrect. If they do fine, it has to be that size to insert the housing that surrounds and the operating leg of the pivot point of any coupling, which regardless of scale. Ref Sergents, Kadee #5's #58's et al, the pivot (hole for the screw - its rotation point) and the thickness of that portion of the coupling are all the same. If you go back and check my images of that part of my modification. I left the coupler pocket the same size (correct size)..?? but added to the thickness of the bar. This reduced in size the lower rectangular aperture in top to bottom dimension. That was not the coupler pocket. It was this that I meant and I think now after typing this I didn't explain that specific detail clearly enough. I said coupler pocket whereas I should have said the rectangular aperture under the pocket.

 

Some of my thoughts on Sergent couplings: They are superb, but do not work too well when coupled with another engine also fitted with Sergents, if the engines are modified closer to the prototype dimensions. The problem is the location of the screw hole that is required to fix them in position which allows the coupling to rotate about the screw, or pivot in engineering terms. The pivot should be further forward toward the rear of the pilot, it is not and is set too far back, by, I think, .5mm. Coupled to another engine and you have lost 1mm and this subsequently causes what I can only refer to as 'buffer lock' could we say 'plow lock' or 'pilot lock' Anyway, Sergents are for me mandatory for my RPM display models. These I install, then as soon as I am back home, they are exchanged for Kadee #58's so that the engines can be coupled to the remainder of all my stock without a single problem, leaving Sergents on, although good looking, they create a lot of problems in the marrying to couplings fitted to over 200 vehicles, and that is over 400 different couplings that ALL have to work exactly the same as each other. Period. So for me, operations require Kadees. #5's and #58's match well, extremely so and are loose enough in their dimensional accuracy to couple and maintain coupled status during their many cycles of friends layouts I run them on. I have standardised 100% on Kadee 58's.

 

Sergents for modern 6 axle GE and EMD power, I install "only" for RPM meet displays. Likewise I install P:87 wheels, in many cases, but not all, for display purposes too. I know of several modellers who even paint the tyres of their P:87 wheels silver to make them look even more realistic, which without paint P:87 wheels do not.

 

Concerning remote uncoupling: My view here is that the prototype I view here in the South Eastern portion of the US, particularly coal trains, have no remote coupling. In my modelling endeavours I try to emulate this and uncouple manually. I remove all Kadee coupling horns because the prototype doesn't have these, although I do not add the JSW rubber airline hoses. A compromise that ticks me of, but the steel horns tick me off even more so. A choice - my choice.

 

Hope that clears any misunderstanding and if nothing else states my view of what goes and what doesn't within the myriad of compromises we all have to make in our own personal modelling decisions. Especially if we want our display models to both be looked at and actually run under ops conditions on various layouts, which ALL mine do. Unlike many RPM display models.

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Some of my thoughts on Sergent couplings: They are superb, but do not work too well when coupled with another engine also fitted with Sergents, if the engines are modified closer to the prototype dimensions. The problem is the location of the screw hole that is required to fix them in position which allows the coupling to rotate about the screw, or pivot in engineering terms. The pivot should be further forward toward the rear of the pilot, it is not and is set too far back, by, I think, .5mm. Coupled to another engine and you have lost 1mm and this subsequently causes what I can only refer to as 'buffer lock' could we say 'plow lock' or 'pilot lock'

 

Hi Guys,

 

Further thoughts. Thinking about what I typed in this paragraph, I see that I have added to the confusion, well most probably I said "The pivot should be further forward toward the rear of the pilot, it is not and is set too far back, by, I think, .5mm." My fault here. By further back I meant back and away from the rear of the pilot NOT toward it. In other words, it should go in by close to .5mm. That is what I meant by - back. There's me thinking pivot when typing rather than knuckle. Sorry, make sense now..?

 

The Sergent coupler can be mounted using the original screw hole fixing method as one does the Kadees. The dimension from the pivot hole centre to the inside face of the coupling, on both Sergents and Kadees are identical. The only major dimensional difference other than the obvious smaller knuckle itself, is the thickness of the Kadee pivot arm which is .0019mm (.050") and the Sergent is .0025mm (.065"). To position the Sergent coupling correctly sticking out from the pocket for RPM display models, I temporarily fix the Sergent coupling with a small piece of double sided adhesive tape. Easy to remove and replace with an operational Kadee #58 when preparing the same display model/s for operation.

 

So plow lock will occur if you set the couplings the correct distance sticking out of the coupler pocket, but you will need some super duper double sided adhesive tape to make it happen.

 

Cheers, Tony

[modelmaker87]

Hi Guys,

 

Moving on with the cab the image below shows the plugs fitted into the number board cavities. ready for the number boards.

 

 

Switching back to the low nose. I masked the area that had to be painted black with Scotch tape.

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Tony