Coaling and Ash Plant Stages

[Guest TomTank]

Hi all

 

I'm about t put my coal and ashplant stages in, but my question is what order would a loco go to first, the ash plant or the coaling stage.

 

They are both on the same siding, so which order should I have it in, so when the loco moves into the siding, which would be it's first stop, coaling or ash plant, just so I can have placed in the correct order.

 

I work on the NYMR and the dropping the fire happens at the end of the day, did this happen in BR times.

 

Finally, would the ash be dropped and then carried into the top of the tower?

 

Sorry so many questions,

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There's watering, turning, sand and brake blocking provision, and standing space to think about too: the latter to permit both attention by fitters, labourers, cleaners, to engines in low steam, and finally crew preparation for next turn; and somewhere for out of steam locos, where washouts and inspections would occur, also dead storage and firelighting and steam raising.

 

The major things that had to occur as the loco came on shed were ash pit for fire dropping and clearing ashpan and smokebox, watering, coaling, turning (tender locos only, and ideally by-passed so that any engines not requiring this didn't go on the table,) which operations usually went under the title 'disposal', followed by placing so that the loco was right for the next booked turn (any loco in front of it booked to go out earlier).

 

The order the disposal operations occurred in was often site dependent, but the desirable pattern was ashpit first, and a flow through water, coal and turning as best suited the site.

[Guest TomTank]

There's watering, turning, sand and brake blocking provision, and standing space to think about too: the latter to permit both attention by fitters, labourers, cleaners, to engines in low steam, and finally crew preparation for next turn; and somewhere for out of steam locos, where washouts and inspections would occur, also dead storage and firelighting and steam raising.

 

The major things that had to occur as the loco came on shed were ash pit for fire dropping and clearing ashpan and smokebox, watering, coaling, turning (tender locos only, and ideally by-passed so that any engines not requiring this didn't go on the table,) which operations usually went under the title 'disposal', followed by placing so that the loco was right for the next booked turn (any loco in front of it booked to go out earlier).

 

The order the disposal operations occurred in was often site dependent, but the desirable pattern was ashpit first, and a flow through water, coal and turning as best suited the site.

 

 

thank you, that really helps plan out a days running for a loco

 

am I right that the ash would be dropped in the pits, then collected into a truck, the truck would then be carried to the top of the ashplant and emptied into the ash plant, with this being the case the pits do not to be under the ash plant, can be further away?

[The Stationmaster]

thank you, that really helps plan out a days running for a loco

 

am I right that the ash would be dropped in the pits, then collected into a truck, the truck would then be carried to the top of the ashplant and emptied into the ash plant, with this being the case the pits do not to be under the ash plant, can be further away?

 

It depends on the individual design Tom. In some cases the pits contained tubs into which the ash was (hopefully) deposited and these were lifted on the ash plant hoist to be emptied into a wagon.

 

Fortunately for the Western was generally much more basic - ash dropped into pit and subsequently shovelled out for loading into wagons to go to tip or whatever.

[Guest TomTank]

It depends on the individual design Tom. In some cases the pits contained tubs into which the ash was (hopefully) deposited and these were lifted on the ash plant hoist to be emptied into a wagon.

 

Fortunately for the Western was generally much more basic - ash dropped into pit and subsequently shovelled out for loading into wagons to go to tip or whatever.

 

Cheers Stationmaster, I'm Eastern/North Eastern Region if that helps at all, so if anyone knows the method used at York that would be great.

 

I may leave the Ashplant out, as im struggling for space, have new pictures of the coaling stage now in place which will be posted later into my workbench.

 

Tom

[JZ]

Resurecting this thread as I've just picked up a Bachmann ash plant. Therefore a couple of questions.

 

1. Would I be right in saying that there would be a pit between the rails ?

 

2. If arranged on a single siding, the order could be as follows. Ash plant, water, coaling tower, turntable. I preume that if the fire was dropped at the ash plant, there would still be enough steam to water, coal, turn and then return to shed.

[greenglade]

Hi Guys

 

This piece of British Transport film

has a wealth of information as to the duties and in what order they are done while an engine is 'on shed'.. go straight to 35:30 for the 'wash and brush up' stage, it also gives an insight as to how the various sections of shed are laid out.

 

Regards

 

Pete.... also an LNER fan...

[jamie92208]

Certainly the Midland was like Mike mentioned above, Ash first, usually into a pit then shovelled out. Water often done at the same time then coal then turning and after turning either onto shed or off to the next turn. On Green Ayre it's a little one way run round loop with a headshunt at one end. If you've got a mechanical ashplant it would certainly come before the coaling plant. You also need to think about the supply of full coal wagons and empty ones for ash to be laoded into. I'm not sure what the ratios were but again on Green Ayre appparently the quantities were about balanced so according to a retired fireman a raft of full coal wagins was pushed past the ash pit and coaling stage then one by one they were emptied of coal and then filled with ash. Other sheds may well have had their own methods. Ardsley near Wakefield dumped it's ash on a tip at the back of the shed but I don't know if that had a special siding to feed the tip.

 

Have a look in one of the engine shed books and the track plan should be self explanatory.

 

 

Jamie

[Pobrien]

At Bristol Barrow Road Midland Shed it looked like coaling first, ash disposal second

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/5891443528/sizes/l/in/photostream/

[pH]

Cheers Stationmaster, I'm Eastern/North Eastern Region if that helps at all, so if anyone knows the method used at York that would be great.

 

BRILL did a series on 'North Eastern Locomotive Sheds'. I only have part 8, in the October 2008 edition (Vol18, number 1), but it appears to be part 2 in at least a 3-part 'mini-series' on the NER sheds at York. There are photographs of the sunken ash wagon roads at the North shed as they were between 1932 and 1943, and of their rebuilding into wet ash pits in 1943-44. The article says that sludge (quenched ash) was raised from these wet ash pits 'by grab crane or in steel cages mounted on rails', but doesn't show any pictures of this. There's also some description of the 'stabling' process, but as it was in the 1920s - coal first, then ash disposal - whether it stayed the same isn't clear.

Edited December 14, 2012 by pH

[Guest Tom F]

 

 

BRILL did a series on 'North Eastern Locomotive Sheds'. I only have part 8, in the October 2008 edition (Vol18, number 1), but it appears to be part 2 in at least a 3-part 'mini-series' on the NER sheds at York. There are photographs of the sunken ash wagon roads at the North shed as they were between 1932 and 1943, and of their rebuilding into wet ash pits in 1943-44. The article says that sludge (quenched ash) was raised from these wet ash pits 'by grab crane or in steel cages mounted on rails', but doesn't show any pictures of this. There's also some description of the 'stabling' process, but as it was in the 1920s - coal first, then ash disposal - whether it stayed the same isn't clear.

 

I have those issues now and have been a great help in getting Leaman Road to the stage it's at now.

 

Cheers

[JeffP]

Resurecting this thread as I've just picked up a Bachmann ash plant. Therefore a couple of questions.

 

1. Would I be right in saying that there would be a pit between the rails ?

 

2. If arranged on a single siding, the order could be as follows. Ash plant, water, coaling tower, turntable. I preume that if the fire was dropped at the ash plant, there would still be enough steam to water, coal, turn and then return to shed.

 

Sounds OK, but coal/ash can be transposed.

 

DO have a road that parallels it so that locos can be turned/stabled without having to go through the facilities, or wait for those on them...if you have space.

[JZ]

I was actually planning to have the coal/ash on one road and the turntable on another. Looking the the shed plans I have, it seems that there is no hard and fast rule and a lot depends on the constraints of the particular site.

[JeffP]

It would work, but what you need to try and avoid is locos having to wait until another has reversed off the coal/ash road before they can enter.

[The Stationmaster]

I was actually planning to have the coal/ash on one road and the turntable on another. Looking the the shed plans I have, it seems that there is no hard and fast rule and a lot depends on the constraints of the particular site.

Ideally (note that word carefully) you need your coal and ash facilities on a through siding with a means of 'escape' for locos which have passed through ash disposal and coaling - unless you are modelling a very small shed area. In some cases the means of escape would have been a turntable but in many cases it wasn't.

[steves17]

Hi, i'm looking for a bit of advice with planning out my yard layout that is is roughly set in the 1920s. The area in question is primarily based on this illustration.

I'm including an ash pit on both lines between the shed and coaling stage to make it more realistic and I was planing to adapt a kit/scratch build something similar to this.

 

As the MPD is only a two road shed i'm wondering about how the non automated coaling stage is loaded up. I'm aware of examples where an elevated line runs behind it for easier shovelling

but as the plan is to have a fence and road directly behind the coaling stage i'm wondering if there is another prototypical solution.

Did any railways shovel at the front side from a truck like this, but a bit above their heads?

 

Minus the narrow wagon network I'm not apposed to featuring a labour saving crane to the side if this is more typical,

 but I can't recall seeing a line side crane used for transferring coal in this fashion.  

*Not counting coal merchants examples, where mobile crab claws, attached to a truck of some sort were used.

 

 

If anyone has any photos/prototype recommendations to look up I would be grateful.

 

Cheers

 

Morgan

Edited December 1, 2015 by steves17

[Fat Controller]

I'm sure I've seen photos of a Southern Region shed in the latter days of steam where a tracked crane (like the Corgi one) was used either for coaling or ash disposal- was it Bournemouth West, perhaps?

As to the relative heights; I suspect the ideal would be wagon higher than coal stage, in turn higher than loco bunker/tender, to avoid having to raise the shovel much above midriff level. If a crane were present, it would be a relatively simple 'gallows' type worked by a couple of people pulling one end of a rope, the bucket being lifted being swung over the bunker when it was high enough.

[steves17]

Something like this N gauge example?

This would actually work nicely with my layout set up, thanks.

Edited November 30, 2015 by steves17

[Fat Controller]

That's the sort of thing.

[Pobrien]

Coaling and ash plants at Bristol Barrow Road September 1963

 

 

 

[phil_sutters]

If you want a small set-up, what about something like Swanage. The ash pit is in front of the platform with the conveyor belt loader on it. Presumably when enough ash had been dug out of the pit and piled on the platform, a wagon was shunted alongside and the ash was shovelled into the hopper and run up the belt and into it. Mind you that is my guesswork. Of course it may have been different before it closed and passed into the preservation sector. Someone out there will know!

[phil_sutters]

At the other extreme - it looks like water>coal>ash - I am sure someone else can tell you where this is. It's from one of Dad's negatives, so I haven't the info. myself.

[pH]

Leeds Copley Hill

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/26606905958

 

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/27936460172182188/

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by pH
To add links

[FoxUnpopuli]

Can anyone give me a lead on some drawings of the large LMS mechanical coaling and ash plants?  (Similar to that seen in the Barrow Road shot above.) 

 

Or any size of mechanical coal/ash plants from any carrier, for that matter...

[Free At Last]

21 minutes ago, FoxUnpopuli said:

Can anyone give me a lead on some drawings of the large LMS mechanical coaling and ash plants?  (Similar to that seen in the Barrow Road shot above.) 

 

Or any size of mechanical coal/ash plants from any carrier, for that matter...

 

PM sent.